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Re: Golf III 1.8 GL: Engine fall into a coma
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CarGuru > Volkswagen > Re: Golf III 1.8 GL: Engine fall into a coma 28 April 2005 08:00:27

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Re: Golf III 1.8 GL: Engine fall into a coma

Woodchuck 23 April 2005 00:56:44
 Would be great to know what year you got. From 1985 to 1992 VW used 2
different FI system and each had minor differences within each!

"sungam" <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote in message
news:1_533462_49f33­427aefb8b2ee9373af91­bebbe0e@autoforumz.c­om...> Hi!>
I have a Golf III 1.8 GL with ABS engine. For two months now I have> had big problems with my engine and the car has been in and out of> Volkswagen auto repair ten times without finding the problem. This has> become very irritating and I have now decided to do the work myself.>
The problem is that sometimes when I start the engine it falls into a> coma for about 15 minutes. The engine idles around 400 rpm and it will> not respond to the throttle at all. After a while it starts to> responds and I can start driving my car. When I have driven the car> some miles a ticking noise from the vents occur.>
The auto repair has changed the timing belt, the lambda sond, the> distributor, the ground cable to the engine and the rotor without even> having noticeable effect. Also they have changed the ignition timing> of the engine several times.>
I suspect the problem is the hall-sensor. The auto-repair says the> hall sensor either works or does not work at all so they think it is> not the hall sensor. For a while I also suspected the coil but I can> not see how the coil can interference with the timing of the engine.>
The problems occur particularly after a cold night and when the> weather is wet.>
Please help!>
-- > Posted using the http://www.autoforu­mz.com interface, at author's request> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards> Topic URL: > http://www.autoforu­mz.com/Volkswagen-Go­lf-III-GL-Engine-fal­l-coma-ftopict113283­.html> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: > http://www.autoforu­mz.com/eform.php?p=5­33462


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Sungam 22 April 2005 19:22:14 permanent link ]
 Hi!

I have a Golf III 1.8 GL with ABS engine. For two months now I have
had big problems with my engine and the car has been in and out of
Volkswagen auto repair ten times without finding the problem. This has
become very irritating and I have now decided to do the work myself.

The problem is that sometimes when I start the engine it falls into a
coma for about 15 minutes. The engine idles around 400 rpm and it will
not respond to the throttle at all. After a while it starts to
responds and I can start driving my car. When I have driven the car
some miles a ticking noise from the vents occur.

The auto repair has changed the timing belt, the lambda sond, the
distributor, the ground cable to the engine and the rotor without even
having noticeable effect. Also they have changed the ignition timing
of the engine several times.

I suspect the problem is the hall-sensor. The auto-repair says the
hall sensor either works or does not work at all so they think it is
not the hall sensor. For a while I also suspected the coil but I can
not see how the coil can interference with the timing of the engine.

The problems occur particularly after a cold night and when the
weather is wet.

Please help!

--
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Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
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Matt B. 23 April 2005 06:08:28 permanent link ]
 "Woodchuck" <stv_euroski@yahoo.­com> wrote in message
news:4357c$42696505­$41c713a0$7224@SALSG­IVER.COM...> Would be great to know what year you got. From 1985 to 1992 VW used 2 > different FI system and each had minor differences within each!

He said it was a Golf III 1.8 GL with an ABS engine so it can't be '85-92.
It's probably the 1.8 that non-US A3s got.


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Peter Parker 23 April 2005 08:55:32 permanent link ]
 In article <1_533462_49f33427a­efb8b2ee9373af91bebb­e0e@autoforumz.com>,­
sungam <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote:>The problem is that sometimes when I start the engine it falls into a>coma for about 15 minutes. The engine idles around 400 rpm and it will>not respond to the throttle at all. After a while it starts to>responds and I can start driving my car. When I have driven the car>some miles a ticking noise from the vents occur.

What do your spark plugs and wires look like? The ticking noise could
be related but first see what kind of condition the spark plugs are in.
When was the last time you change plugs and wires?
Please help!
--
Jeeps and dubs and everything's nice...
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Eduardo K . 23 April 2005 13:55:01 permanent link ]
 In article <1_533462_49f33427a­efb8b2ee9373af91bebb­e0e@autoforumz.com>,­
sungam <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote:>Hi!>
I have a Golf III 1.8 GL with ABS engine. For two months now I have>had big problems with my engine and the car has been in and out of>Volkswagen auto repair ten times without finding the problem. This has>become very irritating and I have now decided to do the work myself.

Where in the world are you? It looks like you have a Digifant III engine,
like what we got down here...

Most advice you will get in this forum will not apply directly to your
engine, as it did not sell in the US or Canada.

In that engine, I would replace the coolant sensor first. Its cheap and
easy to change. If that does not fix it, there are three known failure
spots on that inyection system:

-The Coil selfdestructs around 60.000 miles or 8 years. Always. All cars
down here had the coil replaced if older than 1998. I would also replace
the rotor and distributor cap, as they are most likely original and worn
out by now.

-There is a relay in the fuse box labeled '30'. Its the relay that gives
power to the ECU, the inyectors and sensors. They fail due to vibration
and get high resistance. First you get erratic idle. Then hesitation. Never
completly dies, making it hard to diagnose. If yours is BLACK, replace it
with one that is WHITE. Its a re-engineered version and lasts much longer.
Down here they cost around US$30.

-The idle stabilization box (round metal thing besides the throttle body)
get oily and sticks. Take it out and clean is with carb cleaner.

Hope this helps. I HATE that inyection system. There is very little
documentation avaliable and it gives horrble throttle response.

--
Eduardo K. |
e@nn.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
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Sungam 23 April 2005 21:16:08 permanent link ]
 "noway9" wrote: > "Woodchuck" <stv_euroski@yahoo.­com> wrote in message > news:4357c$42696505­$41c713a0$7224@SALSG­IVER.COM... > > Would be great to know what year you got. From 1985 to 1992 > VW used 2 > > different FI system and each had minor differences within > each! >
He said it was a Golf III 1.8 GL with an ABS engine so it > can't be '85-92. > It's probably the 1.8 that non-US A3s got.

It is a 1993 modell bought from Germany. I live in Norway :)­

It seems to me that the engine has a serious ignition timing problem.
Sometimes when I start the engine it will hardly run - it just idles
at low rpm (500 or so). Then after 10 to 20 minutes it starts to
reponds on the trottle. After two or three minutes more with some
backfires now and then I can start driving the car but the engine
performance is weak. The engine becomes stronger and stronger while I
am driving and in a short period the engine is behaving "normal".
Then after 5 to 10 minutes ticking noise from the valves occur and
stay there for the rest of the trip.

The sympthomes I guess can be caracterized as "changing/unrealibl­e
igniting timing". In paricular the problem occur if the weather is
cold, wet and/or misty.

I suspect the problem could be the hall sensor, but I do not know for
sure. Could it be a bad knock sensor or wear of the axel to the rotor
shaft?

Please help.

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Matt B. 24 April 2005 10:39:01 permanent link ]
 "sungam" <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote in message
news:1_533958_b2a6b­69912319bd27b779ec92­95dead8@autoforumz.c­om...> It seems to me that the engine has a serious ignition timing problem.> Sometimes when I start the engine it will hardly run - it just idles> at low rpm (500 or so). Then after 10 to 20 minutes it starts to> reponds on the trottle. After two or three minutes more with some> backfires now and then I can start driving the car but the engine> performance is weak. The engine becomes stronger and stronger while I> am driving and in a short period the engine is behaving "normal".> Then after 5 to 10 minutes ticking noise from the valves occur and> stay there for the rest of the trip.>
The sympthomes I guess can be caracterized as "changing/unrealibl­e> igniting timing". In paricular the problem occur if the weather is> cold, wet and/or misty.

If worse when damp, I suspect ignition. New plug wires and new distributor
cap and rotor should do it but specifically go out to the car at night with
a spray bottle and in the dark mist over the engine's plug wires and
distributor and if you see arcing, that's the problem part. Are any of
those parts fairly old?
I suspect the problem could be the hall sensor, but I do not know for > sure.

I would think a flaky Hall sender would be more likely to cause the engine
to stall completely and then maybe later start up again but I wouldn't
expect that to just cause general rough running.


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Sungam 28 April 2005 03:29:22 permanent link ]
 "draugaz" wrote: > sungam <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote in message > news:<1_533462_49f3­3427aefb8b2ee9373af9­1bebbe0e@autoforumz.­com>... >
The problem is that sometimes when I start the engine it > falls into a > > coma for about 15 minutes. The engine idles around 400 rpm > and it will > > not respond to the throttle at all. After a while it starts > to > > responds and I can start driving my car. When I have driven > the car > > some miles a ticking noise from the vents occur. >
Ok, if you want to look at the problem yourself, I can try to > explain > it works :)­ Your car is equipped with Monomotronic fuel > injection > system, which is somewhat funny: a very primitive hardware and > a very > smart ECU. Yankees call it "throttle body injection" :)­ >
First, what tells the ECU itself? Any errors? >
Second, I would look at the obvious - air leaks. Your symptoms > do not > suggest it, but anyway... There are only two places where it > could > happen: the rubber "basement" of the injector unit (it cracks > sometimes). Just swing the injection unit with your hand and > look. > The second place to look is two thin plastic tubes (the ends > of them), > which are comming from the back of the injection unit and > going to the > coal container which is located under the air filter box. >
The next (most probable) thing is the sensors and wiring. > There are > not much of them, and the most are monitored by the ECU. > 1. Coolant temperature sensors, located on the upper coolant > eee... > "tube" :)­ If you disconnect the plug, ECU will think "it's > cold" and > rpm's will rise to ~1100. Just try it when your car starts to > behave > funny. If nothing is happening, then the cause is probably > somewhere > else. >
2. The injector, or more likely the plug and wires. If tou > look at the > injection unit, then there are three plugs on it: if you stand > in > front of the car, then left (or passenger side) the is a > stepper motor > (idle stabiliser) with a plug on it, then in the middle is a > brown > plug for injector and air temperature sensor, and finally > right > (driver side) - a trottle body potentiometer with a plug on > it. > It happends sometimes (I had this problem last week), that the > wire > just breaks off inside the plug, but stays semi "connected" > most of > the time. So, just "wiggle" the connector with your fingers > sideways, > try to pull the wires etc while the engine is running. If your > engine > dies, then you found it. > My car also started to behave funny, idling at ~500rpm, > jumping rpm's, > "jerking" and so on. But only sometimes, once every two of > three days. > No ECU errors, nothing. The problem was a broken wire in the > injector > plug. >
3. Throttle body potentiometer, the most expensive part after > the ECU > (400 euros or so :(­ > It it basically the only information source, from which ECU > knows how > wide the throttle is open. Check the plug and wires. >
4. Coal container. Unlikely causing a trouble, but you can > temporarily > "disconnect" it by taking those two thin plastic tubes off, > and then > somehow "hermetising" the holes. >
5. Lambda. No problem there as it was changed. >
6. Stepper motor used for idle stabilization. I can't imagine > it > causing such problems. >
That's all, as I said, the Monomotronic is a very primitive > thing. >
The auto repair has changed the timing belt, the lambda > sond, the > > distributor, the ground cable to the engine and the rotor > without even > > having noticeable effect. Also they have changed the > ignition timing > > of the engine several times. >
Hmm... doesn't look like they know what they are doing :)­ >
I would say - check your wires and plugs. Wiggle what you can, > pull > what you can and so on.

Now I have changed the coil and the cable from the coil to the
distributor. Still the engine behave strange. I have also tried all
the suggestions in the previous postings without finding the problem.
Another strange thing I observed is that the engine lacks power at
high rpm and around 5000 rpm the engine "shuts down" until it falls
below "4000" rpm.

The temperature sensor has been changed by the auto repair and I have
also changed the fuel filter just in case.

Thank you for all your suggestions so far, but I still need more help
if anyone can help me.

I will have a look at the hall sensor this weekend.

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dave AKA vwdoc1 28 April 2005 08:00:27 permanent link ]
 fuel pump relay maybe? I dunno.
I will assume your fuel filter is good and the catalytic converter or
exhaust is not clogged.
I have a collasping rear muffler on my 91 Passat that really killed the
power sometimes.

good luck with it!
BTW I always vote for testing components before replacing them. ;-)­

later,
dave
(One out of many daves)


"sungam" <UseLinkToEmail@Aut­oForumz.com> wrote in message

snip
Now I have changed the coil and the cable from the coil to the> distributor. Still the engine behave strange. I have also tried all> the suggestions in the previous postings without finding the problem.> Another strange thing I observed is that the engine lacks power at> high rpm and around 5000 rpm the engine "shuts down" until it falls> below "4000" rpm.


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CarGuru > Volkswagen > Re: Golf III 1.8 GL: Engine fall into a coma 28 April 2005 08:00:27

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