"hypothetical" question

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CarGuru > Volkswagen > "hypothetical" question 4 March 2005 20:42:46

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"hypothetical" question
Shag 1 March 2005 02:02:48
	Suppose you have an air-cooled VW engine with transmission attached to it and the half-shafts are in place and the wheels are attached and no fluids have been drained... Now you have this combination sitting on the floor of your garage but it's taking up a little more room than you'd like it to. Also suppose that there is a good attachment point on both ends of the engine/tranny and you have a hoist set up so that you could easily raise either end up, effectively making the arrangement vertical, either with the engine on top or the transmission on top. Also assume a sand-seal pulley is installed on the engine. Would you be able to raise it up either way without making a mess? I mean would you be able to raise the "engine end" up with the transmission hanging beneath it or vice-versa without dumping oil or transmission fluid all over the place? Maybe not a 90 degree angle, but say a 60-70 degree angle? Thanks! --- "There's nothing wrong with a little shooting as long as the right people get shot." - Inspector Harry Callahan
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Mike West 1 March 2005 02:18:37 [ permanent link ]
	Shag, I believe that if you put it engine down you will get oil through the carb one way or the other and out the crank vent and maybe even into the dist.. probably into the valve covers as well. In the tranny on top you might get fluid into the bellhousing and out the axle housings into the breaks maybe? If the seals aren't perfect. Isn't there a vent hole on a transaxkle too somewhere? All of this is just a guess though, I have never don e this. Mike West 66chopped bug custom
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Joey Tribiani 1 March 2005 03:08:10 [ permanent link ]
	"Shag" <travist67_REMOVETHIS_@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fo47211thcjt4huurmugrarei499qd8fbh@4ax.com...> Suppose you have an air-cooled VW engine with transmission attached to> it and the half-shafts are in place and the wheels are attached and no> fluids have been drained... Now you have this combination sitting on> the floor of your garage but it's taking up a little more room than> you'd like it to. Also suppose that there is a good attachment point> on both ends of the engine/tranny and you have a hoist set up so that> you could easily raise either end up, effectively making the> arrangement vertical, either with the engine on top or the> transmission on top. Also assume a sand-seal pulley is installed on> the engine. Would you be able to raise it up either way without> making a mess? I mean would you be able to raise the "engine end" up> with the transmission hanging beneath it or vice-versa without dumping> oil or transmission fluid all over the place? Maybe not a 90 degree> angle, but say a 60-70 degree angle? Thanks!> --- sure you can but you must be a bit concerned with the engine oil weeping past the piston rings and getting into the combustion chamber....it can cause problems....there is also a vent on the tranny to worry about...
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P.J. Berg 1 March 2005 03:28:19 [ permanent link ]
	Shag wrote:> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:13:50 +0100, "P.J. Berg" <BergRace@gmail.com>> wrote:> Shag wrote:>> Suppose you have an air-cooled VW engine with transmission attached to>>>it and the half-shafts are in place and the wheels are attached and no>>>fluids have been drained... Now you have this combination sitting on>>>the floor of your garage but it's taking up a little more room than>>>you'd like it to. Also suppose that there is a good attachment point>>>on both ends of the engine/tranny and you have a hoist set up so that>>>you could easily raise either end up, effectively making the>>>arrangement vertical, either with the engine on top or the>>>transmission on top. Also assume a sand-seal pulley is installed on>>>the engine. Would you be able to raise it up either way without>>>making a mess? I mean would you be able to raise the "engine end" up>>>with the transmission hanging beneath it or vice-versa without dumping>>>oil or transmission fluid all over the place? Maybe not a 90 degree>>>angle, but say a 60-70 degree angle? Thanks!>> Separate engine/tranny, place engine with flywheel against wall, and >>tranny up against wall with input shaft(clutch side)facing floor. No oil >>spills this way, if oil seal on ingoing axle is ok.> OK, suppose the engine/tranny is actually mounted in a frame. heh> heh... And suppose you want to keep it all connected so that you> could quickly lower it and drive it away? > Sounds like you bought your old bug back?> No. I just "have a plan." Your building a small trike, and want to store it up against the wall. :o) J. ---> "There's nothing wrong with a little shooting as long as the right people get shot."> - Inspector Harry Callahan
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Michael Cecil 1 March 2005 08:48:45 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:44:07 -0700, "Neil" <ramva@neil.us> wrote: How soon we forget our friends. John Henry had a simple solution to storing >more that he had room for. Remember this:>http://www.thebugshop.org/bbone.htm That's like the Winchester Mystery House. Always just add on a room when you want it. Never mind aesthetics. Of course you could forego the careful planning and just use lots of rope and duct tape. -- Michael Cecil http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/ 1970 VW Beetle "Millennium Sparrow"
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Tricky 1 March 2005 13:57:10 [ permanent link ]
	How about you drain the oil ? 10 minute job ! Measure how much comes out and its 5 mins to put it back ! Rich Mike West wrote:> Shag,> I believe that if you put it engine down you will get oil through the carb> one way or the other and out the crank vent and maybe even into the dist..> probably into the valve covers as well.> In the tranny on top you might get fluid into the bellhousing and out the> axle housings into the breaks maybe? If the seals aren't perfect. Isn't> there a vent hole on a transaxkle too somewhere?> All of this is just a guess though, I have never don e this.> Mike West> 66chopped bug custom>
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Tim Rogers 1 March 2005 16:02:56 [ permanent link ]
	"tricky" <Tricky@handmade-f9.co.uk> wrote in message news:W%WUd.322$p62.10@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...> How about you drain the oil ? 10 minute job !> Measure how much comes out and its 5 mins to put it back !> .................After reading this entire thread, you're the only one who came up with the most obvious and practical solution! He could drain the engine and tranny in about 15 min.. but I wouldn't put it back in later.
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Jan 1 March 2005 17:30:13 [ permanent link ]
	Mike West wrote:> Shag,> I believe that if you put it engine down you will get oil through the carb> one way or the other and out the crank vent and maybe even into the dist..> probably into the valve covers as well. Some of teh "sealing" of teh sadn seal and crank end seal come from teh rotation of the crank. The seal lip has little ridges that act as "slingers", forcing oil to be thrown back in if it gets to them. You lose this effect if the crank isn't turning. They may leak. The sand seals are usually a poor fit&seal too. Drain the oil from both teh engine and the tranny before doing this. In the tranny on top you might get fluid into the bellhousing and out the> axle housings into the breaks maybe? If the seals aren't perfect. Isn't> there a vent hole on a transaxkle too somewhere? It's on the center "sandwich" part, between nose cone and case. On top. Jan
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Jan 1 March 2005 17:31:21 [ permanent link ]
	"P.J. Berg" wrote:> Shag wrote:> > Suppose you have an air-cooled VW engine with transmission attached to> > it and the half-shafts are in place and the wheels are attached and no> > fluids have been drained... Now you have this combination sitting on> > the floor of your garage but it's taking up a little more room than> > you'd like it to. Also suppose that there is a good attachment point> > on both ends of the engine/tranny and you have a hoist set up so that> > you could easily raise either end up, effectively making the> > arrangement vertical, either with the engine on top or the> > transmission on top. Also assume a sand-seal pulley is installed on> > the engine. Would you be able to raise it up either way without> > making a mess? I mean would you be able to raise the "engine end" up> > with the transmission hanging beneath it or vice-versa without dumping> > oil or transmission fluid all over the place? Maybe not a 90 degree> > angle, but say a 60-70 degree angle? Thanks!> Separate engine/tranny, place engine with flywheel against wall, and> tranny up against wall with input shaft(clutch side)facing floor. No oil> spills this way, if oil seal on ingoing axle is ok.> Sounds like you bought your old bug back?> J. Use 2 blocks of wood under the bellhousing face, to take the load off the input shaft. jan
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Jim Adney 2 March 2005 07:21:38 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:13:50 +0100 "P.J. Berg" <BergRace@gmail.com> wrote: Separate engine/tranny, place engine with flywheel against wall, and >tranny up against wall with input shaft(clutch side)facing floor. No oil >spills this way, if oil seal on ingoing axle is ok. I've stored trannies this way and the gear oil always ends up on the outside. It might not be noticable over a short period of time, but over several years the oil all seems to get out. I'd also be willing to believe that some tranny input seals are tight enough that this doesn't happen, but I can assure you that not all are. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA -----------------------------------------------
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Joey Tribiani 2 March 2005 07:28:17 [ permanent link ]
	"Tim Rogers" <thr@stny.rr.com> wrote in message > >> .................After reading this entire thread, you're the only one who> came up with the most obvious and practical solution! He could drain the> engine and tranny in about 15 min.. but I wouldn't put it back in later.> not true Tim...i spoke my suggestions because i know exactly what he is trying to do, even without his saying so....the suggestion of draining the oil and tranny is not practical...would you want to have to add oil and gear lube everytime you wanted to drive your bug?
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Tim Rogers 2 March 2005 16:32:33 [ permanent link ]
	"Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:mpaVd.96$Ci7.90@lakeread07...> "Tim Rogers" <thr@stny.rr.com> wrote in message > >> > .................After reading this entire thread, you're the only one came up with the most obvious and practical solution! He could drain the> > engine and tranny in about 15 min.. but I wouldn't put it back in later.> > not true Tim...i spoke my suggestions because i know exactly what he is> trying to do, even without his saying so....the suggestion of draining the> oil and tranny is not practical...would you want to have to add oil and gear> lube everytime you wanted to drive your bug?> ..............I misunderstood the question. I thought that he just wanted to put it away in storage without getting it out for awhile.
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David 3 March 2005 01:00:46 [ permanent link ]
	John Willis wrote:> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:20:15 -0500, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo.com>> scribbled this interesting note: He wouldn't have this problem if he hadn't bought that house in an> area with a HOA!:~( I was going to leave that alone as to not remind him of his horror of living in that yuppy neighborhood. David
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Joey Tribiani 3 March 2005 05:34:57 [ permanent link ]
	"John Willis" <jdwillis1357@airmail.net> wrote in message news:kl6c219g0fg014mm91cd33noi0ifmsgvi7@4ax.com... > > He wouldn't have this problem if he hadn't bought that house in an> area with a HOA!:~(> its a nice neighborhood, but does not look like a "hood" with an over the top HOA....seen several junk vehicles in the neighborhood...no wait, that was the jeep and Gary's wagon.... nevermind...<G>
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John Willis 3 March 2005 07:14:31 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:34:57 -0500, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo.com> scribbled this interesting note: "John Willis" <jdwillis1357@airmail.net> wrote in message>news:kl6c219g0fg014mm91cd33noi0ifmsgvi7@4ax.com...> > > He wouldn't have this problem if he hadn't bought that house in an>> area with a HOA!:~(>> its a nice neighborhood, but does not look like a "hood" with an over the>top HOA....seen several junk vehicles in the neighborhood...no wait, that>was the jeep and Gary's wagon.... nevermind...<G>> With friends like these.... -- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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Muadibв® 3 March 2005 07:46:22 [ permanent link ]
	That's like the Winchester Mystery House. Always just add on a room when>you want it. And Even add a door that goes into a wall, or maybe to an outside , with no steps, stairs, or balcony.................. Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply MUADIBВ® http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ssterile/MAIN%20PAGE.html one small step for man,..... One giant leap for attorneys.
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Kidd Andersson 4 March 2005 05:59:25 [ permanent link ]
	Some of teh "sealing" of teh sadn seal and crank end seal come from teh> rotation of the crank. The seal lip has little ridges that act as> "slingers", forcing oil to be thrown back in if it gets to them. You> lose this effect if the crank isn't turning. They may leak. The sand> seals are usually a poor fit&seal too. Drain the oil from both teh> engine and the tranny before doing this. > .................... Jan? Were you drunk when you wrote this or was the European spelling of "the" changed while I was gone? K.
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Shag 4 March 2005 05:59:31 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:59:25 -0500, Kidd Andersson <LittleVWGoddess@aol.com> wrote: Some of teh "sealing" of teh sadn seal and crank end seal come from teh>> rotation of the crank. The seal lip has little ridges that act as>> "slingers", forcing oil to be thrown back in if it gets to them. You>> lose this effect if the crank isn't turning. They may leak. The sand>> seals are usually a poor fit&seal too. Drain the oil from both teh>> engine and the tranny before doing this. >> ....................> Jan? Were you drunk when you wrote this or was the European spelling of >"the" changed while I was gone?> K. What teh hell are you talkin' about? --- "There's nothing wrong with a little shooting as long as the right people get shot." - Inspector Harry Callahan
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P.J. Berg 4 March 2005 20:36:44 [ permanent link ]
	Kidd Andersson wrote:> Some of teh "sealing" of teh sadn seal and crank end seal come from teh>> rotation of the crank. The seal lip has little ridges that act as>> "slingers", forcing oil to be thrown back in if it gets to them. You>> lose this effect if the crank isn't turning. They may leak. The sand>> seals are usually a poor fit&seal too. Drain the oil from both teh>> engine and the tranny before doing this.>> ....................> Jan? Were you drunk when you wrote this or was the European spelling of > "the" changed while I was gone?> K. He's been doing that for years darling.. J.
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Jan Andersson 4 March 2005 20:42:46 [ permanent link ]
	"P.J. Berg" wrote:> Kidd Andersson wrote:> > Some of teh "sealing" of teh sadn seal and crank end seal come from teh> >> rotation of the crank. The seal lip has little ridges that act as> >> "slingers", forcing oil to be thrown back in if it gets to them. You> >> lose this effect if the crank isn't turning. They may leak. The sand> >> seals are usually a poor fit&seal too. Drain the oil from both teh> >> engine and the tranny before doing this.> >> ....................> > Jan? Were you drunk when you wrote this or was the European spelling of> > "the" changed while I was gone?> > K.> He's been doing that for years darling..> J. Drinking you mean? Jan
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CarGuru > Volkswagen > "hypothetical" question 4 March 2005 20:42:46

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