Compression test values too high

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CarGuru > Toyota > Compression test values too high - 1991 Toyota Tercel 3 May 2005 22:44:52

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Compression test values too high - 1991 Toyota Tercel
Daniel Beardsley 30 April 2005 21:09:41
	1991 Toyota Tercel Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong. I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so. The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads correctly (+/- 3 PSI).
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Jirн Lejsek 1 May 2005 00:23:43 [ permanent link ]
	These values are absolutely OK for motor in good condition. It is caused by velocity of air which is a little compressed even in bottom dead center. My english is a little poor so somebody may explain it better. J. Lejsek "Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> pнse v diskusnнm prнspevku news:1114880981.664294.119120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> 1991 Toyota Tercel> Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last> week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing> it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm> getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of> about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.> I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I> get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel> injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.> The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every> compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much> higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the> cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've> tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads> correctly (+/- 3 PSI).>
		Add comment


Ray O 1 May 2005 01:32:26 [ permanent link ]
	"Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1114880981.664294.119120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> 1991 Toyota Tercel> Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last> week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing> it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm> getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of> about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.> I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I> get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel> injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.> The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every> compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much> higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the> cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've> tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads> correctly (+/- 3 PSI).> Pressures sound about right - correct range is probably around 80 to 215 PSI. More important is the difference between cylinders, which should not exceed 15 PSI. -- Ray O correct the return address punctuation to reply
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Josh 1 May 2005 02:13:51 [ permanent link ]
	"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message news:1bfcf$4273fa8a$180fead6$23206@msgid.meganewsservers.com...> "Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message> news:1114880981.664294.119120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> > 1991 Toyota Tercel> > Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last> > week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing> > it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm> > getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of> > about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.> > I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I> > get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel> > injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.> > The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every> > compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much> > higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the> > cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've> > tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads> > correctly (+/- 3 PSI).> > Pressures sound about right - correct range is probably around 80 to 215> PSI. More important is the difference between cylinders, which should not> exceed 15 PSI. You mean 180? I think also the difference is not so much PSI, but more like 10% between the highest and lowest rating? I'm not sure what this engine specs are, it does have a specific compression rating, you will have to look this up. If it is high than you most likely have some carbon build up. You can remove carbon with water injection or a product called Seafoam which works really well. Being that the car is 15 years old that's probably the cause. If you use the Seafoam just feed it into the throttle body with a spray bottle, or let it suck it out of the bottom half of a styrofoam cup using a vacuum line to the TB. This will produce a LOT of white smoke, so beware. Some people also feed the Seafoam into the cylinder, install the plugs and crank the engine a few times, let it sit for 30 minutes and start the car.
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Danny Beardsley 1 May 2005 03:59:45 [ permanent link ]
	I just rebuilt the engine and removed the carbon buildup in the process. The compression ratio is supposed to be 9:1 and the Chiltons manual says a brand new engine should get about 140 -150psi.. so yeah, it's too high.
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Danny Beardsley 1 May 2005 04:02:43 [ permanent link ]
	Interesting theory, that hadn't occrured to me. Though I don't think that the air could be compressed that much in bottom dead center, but your theory sounds the best so far... Except that I've done compression tests on other cars and they always come out normal (100 - 130 psi), i.e. close to their designed compression ratios.
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Josh 1 May 2005 05:43:03 [ permanent link ]
	"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1114905585.608374.27320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> I just rebuilt the engine and removed the carbon buildup in the> process. The compression ratio is supposed to be 9:1 and the Chiltons> manual says a brand new engine should get about 140 -150psi.. so yeah,> it's too high. What exactly did you 'rebuild'? As far as somebody suggesting velocity of the air, I highly doubt that has anything to do with it.
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Philip 1 May 2005 08:12:37 [ permanent link ]
	Danny Beardsley wrote:> Interesting theory, that hadn't occrured to me. Though I don't think> that the air could be compressed that much in bottom dead center, but> your theory sounds the best so far... Except that I've done> compression tests on other cars and they always come out normal (100 -> 130 psi), i.e. close to their designed compression ratios. Air in the cylinder is NOT pressurized at BDC. In fact, at cranking speeds, you have no compression until the piston moves up the cylinder sufficient to close the intake valve. Now ... if you have your valve timing off a tooth where the intake is closing very shortly aft BDC, then cranking compression will be higher than normal. Normal cranking compression with the throttle OPEN is often in the 140 to 180 psi range. Closed throttle perhaps 30 psi less.
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Danny Beardsley 1 May 2005 23:06:47 [ permanent link ]
	I didn't rebuild the whole engine, but I did completely tear apart the head and replaced all gaskets and seals (head gasket, valve stem oil seals, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, ...) While I had the head off I removed the carbon on the head and on top of each piston.
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Noneyabusiness 2 May 2005 02:34:08 [ permanent link ]
	On 30 Apr 2005 10:09:41 -0700, "Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote: 1991 Toyota Tercel> Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last>week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing>it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm>getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of>about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.> I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I>get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel>injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.>The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every>compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much>higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the>cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've>tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads>correctly (+/- 3 PSI). Are you sure your calculations for the ratio are correct? Does it seem to have a lot more power than before the rebuild? <g> What octane gas are you running? If you use the lowest available does it ping a lot? ...
		Add comment


Danny Beardsley 2 May 2005 03:08:04 [ permanent link ]
	I don't see why they wouldn't be correct, unless "compression ratio" doesn't really mean what I think it means. It runs a tad better, but not enough to justify the compression I'm seeing, 13:1 is akin to putting a turbo on. I'm using 87 regular. No, it sounds/runs beautifully.
		Add comment


Ray O 2 May 2005 07:18:07 [ permanent link ]
	"Josh" <nobody@noplacenowhere.never> wrote in message news:NIGcnfIXUejPn-nfUSdV9g@ptd.net...> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message> news:1bfcf$4273fa8a$180fead6$23206@msgid.meganewsservers.com...>> "Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message>> news:1114880981.664294.119120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>> > 1991 Toyota Tercel>> > Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last>> > week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing>> > it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm>> > getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of>> > about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.>> > I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I>> > get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel>> > injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.>> > The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every>> > compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much>> > higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the>> > cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've>> > tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads>> > correctly (+/- 3 PSI).>> > Pressures sound about right - correct range is probably around 80 to 215>> PSI. More important is the difference between cylinders, which should >> not>> exceed 15 PSI.> You mean 180? I think also the difference is not so much PSI, but more > like> 10% between the highest and lowest rating? Oops, typo - I meant to say 180. The problem with using a percentage difference between the highest and lowest rating is that the allowable difference varies with compression. 10% is a fair rule of thumb, 5 to 10 PSI difference is acceptable, 15 PSI difference is at the high end of aceptable, whether it is a high compresison engine or not. I'm not sure what this engine specs are, it does have a specific > compression> rating, you will have to look this up. If it is high than you most likely> have some carbon build up. You can remove carbon with water injection or a> product called Seafoam which works really well. Being that the car is 15> years old that's probably the cause. Since the OP replaced the head gasket, I would hope that whoever did the work would not put it back together with a heavy crbon buildup on the pistons or valves.> -- Ray O correct the return address punctuation to reply
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Ray O 2 May 2005 07:21:54 [ permanent link ]
	"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message news:VGYce.2383$7F4.66@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...> Danny Beardsley wrote:>> Interesting theory, that hadn't occrured to me. Though I don't think>> that the air could be compressed that much in bottom dead center, but>> your theory sounds the best so far... Except that I've done>> compression tests on other cars and they always come out normal (100 ->> 130 psi), i.e. close to their designed compression ratios.> Air in the cylinder is NOT pressurized at BDC. In fact, at cranking > speeds, you have no compression until the piston moves up the cylinder > sufficient to close the intake valve. Now ... if you have your valve > timing off a tooth where the intake is closing very shortly aft BDC, then > cranking compression will be higher than normal. Normal cranking > compression with the throttle OPEN is often in the 140 to 180 psi range. > Closed throttle perhaps 30 psi less.> Did someone machine the heads or did you use a non-OEM head gasket? Either could account for higher compression. If the engine runs properly without pinging, performance is good, and you do not have excessive difference in compression between cylinders, I'd say drive it. -- Ray O correct the return address punctuation to reply
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Noneyabusiness 2 May 2005 09:42:00 [ permanent link ]
	On 1 May 2005 16:08:04 -0700, "Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote: I don't see why they wouldn't be correct, unless "compression ratio">doesn't really mean what I think it means. I only asked because I am ignorant of how to get the compression ratio from the PSI produced in a cylinder. It runs a tad better, but not enough to justify the compression I'm>seeing, 13:1 is akin to putting a turbo on. Or using the wrong gasket <g> (Can you actually get a change of 4 or 5 to 1 from a gasket??!) I'm using 87 regular. No, it sounds/runs beautifully. Then as someone else suggested: Just drive it! Seriously, if you had 13:1 ratio it should ping like hell on 87 octane (Does a 91 Tercel have a knock sensor?). In any event, good luck with the rebuilt engine. ...
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Jeff Strickland 2 May 2005 21:00:39 [ permanent link ]
	You are doing something wrong, but the good news is you are doing the same thing worng repeatedly and the test results are that all cylinders are within as narrow range, and this is good. "Daniel Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1114880981.664294.119120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> 1991 Toyota Tercel> Ok, I've done a compression test several times on this car in the last> week or two and I'm getting numbers that are way too high. I'm doing> it properly from what I can tell, but I must be missing something. I'm> getting between 190 and 200 PSI, which means a compression ratio of> about 13-13.5:1 which is obviously wrong.> I just replaced the head gasket and the car runs absolutely fine. I> get the car warmed up, I remove all the spark plugs, unplug the fuel> injectors, screw in the tester and crank it over for 10 seconds or so.> The compression tester lurches a bunch and the gauge goes up every> compression stroke, it slows down around 190-200 and doesn't go up much> higher. The only thing I can imagine is that fuel is getting into the> cylinder and dieseling. I don't know what to think really. I've> tested the compression tester with my air compressor and it reads> correctly (+/- 3 PSI).>
		Add comment


Josh 3 May 2005 01:03:56 [ permanent link ]
	"Danny Beardsley" <dbeardsl@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1114988884.889657.311430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> I don't see why they wouldn't be correct, unless "compression ratio"> doesn't really mean what I think it means.> It runs a tad better, but not enough to justify the compression I'm> seeing, 13:1 is akin to putting a turbo on.> I'm using 87 regular. No, it sounds/runs beautifully. There is just no way you are running 13:1 I think your calculations are off. At 13:1 even on the highest octane on the stock ECU you would be in trouble.
		Add comment


Danny Beardsley 3 May 2005 22:44:52 [ permanent link ]
	Solved. Hum, I don't know why I didn't think of this before... I guess it's been a while since I took a thermodynamics or physics class. The gas-compression in a cylinder causes the gas to heat up and thus increases it's pressure beyond the 8.9:1 volume ratio. infact, if the process is totally adiabatic (no heat in the air is lost to the cylinder walls), the pressure ratio should be about 8.9 ^ 1.4 = 21.3 times atmospheric pressure which gives about 313 psi. Under cranking speeds, the process is pretty far from adiabatic, which is why the pressure is lower... I guess that solves the compression problem 200psi is fine, just me over simplifying things. Thanks everybody!
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CarGuru > Toyota > Compression test values too high - 1991 Toyota Tercel 3 May 2005 22:44:52

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Compression test values too high - 1991 Toyota Tercel

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