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Re: crankcase breather puffing air
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CarGuru > Technology > Re: crankcase breather puffing air 4 May 2005 01:54:07

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Re: crankcase breather puffing air

John Ings 3 May 2005 15:37:46
 On 2 May 2005 22:12:11 -0700, beerismygas@yahoo.c­om wrote:
i pulled off the crankcase breather hose (connects air cleaner to>filler cap) with engine running and i noticed it was puffing pulses of>air. is this air that is being pushed out of the sump area by pistons>moving downwards? or are these blown by gases of a worn engine?

Maybe some of each. The crankcase volume of an eight cylinder engine
is constantly changing, so it 'puffs' at the breather. A six cylinder
engine maintains a constant volume and doesn't puff so much.

What does your pulsing air smell like? Just oil, or exhaust gas?


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Steve 3 May 2005 19:07:59 permanent link ]
 John Ings wrote:
The crankcase volume of an eight cylinder engine> is constantly changing, so it 'puffs' at the breather. A six cylinder> engine maintains a constant volume and doesn't puff so much.

Uhhh..... I don't think so.

Any engine that is a) even-firing, and b) has an even number of
cylinders greater than 2 always has a piston moving up at exactly the
same rate as every piston that is moving down throughout the cycle, so
the crankcase volume is constant.

I *think* it may even be true that the net crankcase volume for an odd
number of cylinders greater than 1 is constant, but I'm not positive
about that. Its easy to prove for an even # of cylinders greater than 2,
though.
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TeGGeR® 3 May 2005 19:23:48 permanent link ]
 Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in news:mrqdnVTAdcRSDu­rfRVn-vw@texas.net:
John Ings wrote:>
The crankcase volume of an eight cylinder engine>> is constantly changing, so it 'puffs' at the breather. A six cylinder>> engine maintains a constant volume and doesn't puff so much. >
Uhhh..... I don't think so.>
Any engine that is a) even-firing, and b) has an even number of > cylinders greater than 2 always has a piston moving up at exactly the > same rate as every piston that is moving down throughout the cycle, so > the crankcase volume is constant.


It may be more correct to say that the volume is constantly *displacing*.
Churn may result in at least some of the puffing.

I *think* it may even be true that the net crankcase volume for an odd > number of cylinders greater than 1 is constant, but I'm not positive > about that.


An exception: Those Harley twins where both pistons can be moving in the
same direction at the same time.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hond­afaq/
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Steve 3 May 2005 20:47:20 permanent link ]
 TeGGeR® wrote:
Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in news:mrqdnVTAdcRSDu­rfRVn-vw@texas.net:>­
John Ings wrote:>>
The crankcase volume of an eight cylinder engine>>>is constantly changing, so it 'puffs' at the breather. A six cylinder>>>engine maintains a constant volume and doesn't puff so much. >>
Uhhh..... I don't think so.>>
Any engine that is a) even-firing, and b) has an even number of >>cylinders greater than 2 always has a piston moving up at exactly the >>same rate as every piston that is moving down throughout the cycle, so >>the crankcase volume is constant.>
It may be more correct to say that the volume is constantly *displacing*. > Churn may result in at least some of the puffing.

agreed, although that's pretty well damped out between the bottom of the
crankcase where the "churn" is and the top of a valve cover where the
breather usually is.

If there's a distinct "puffing", I would suspect a cylinder with higher
blow-by than the others.
I *think* it may even be true that the net crankcase volume for an odd >>number of cylinders greater than 1 is constant, but I'm not positive >>about that.>
An exception: Those Harley twins where both pistons can be moving in the > same direction at the same time.

Not an exception: note that I said "even number of cylinders greater
than 2" specifically because 2-cylinder engines have pistons moving
together instead of opposite to each other. And I was thinking
even-firing ones like old John Deere 'Johnny Poppers' and other bike and
small air-cooled engines- those odd-firing Harleys are a case unto
themselves!
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Kevin Bottorff 4 May 2005 00:51:35 permanent link ]
 Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in news:RZCdndtvRdCHNu­rfRVn-iA@texas.net:
TeGGeR® wrote:>
Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in>> news:mrqdnVTAdcRSDu­rfRVn-vw@texas.net: >>
John Ings wrote:>>>
The crankcase volume of an eight cylinder engine>>>>is constantly changing, so it 'puffs' at the breather. A six>>>>cylinder engine maintains a constant volume and doesn't puff so>>>>much. >>>
Uhhh..... I don't think so.>>>
Any engine that is a) even-firing, and b) has an even number of >>>cylinders greater than 2 always has a piston moving up at exactly the>>>same rate as every piston that is moving down throughout the cycle,>>>so the crankcase volume is constant.>>
It may be more correct to say that the volume is constantly>> *displacing*. Churn may result in at least some of the puffing.>
agreed, although that's pretty well damped out between the bottom of> the crankcase where the "churn" is and the top of a valve cover where> the breather usually is.>
If there's a distinct "puffing", I would suspect a cylinder with> higher blow-by than the others.>
I *think* it may even be true that the net crankcase volume for an>>>odd number of cylinders greater than 1 is constant, but I'm not>>>positive about that.>>
An exception: Those Harley twins where both pistons can be moving in>> the same direction at the same time.>
Not an exception: note that I said "even number of cylinders greater > than 2" specifically because 2-cylinder engines have pistons moving > together instead of opposite to each other. And I was thinking > even-firing ones like old John Deere 'Johnny Poppers' and other bike> and small air-cooled engines- those odd-firing Harleys are a case unto> themselves!>

just as a note the john deere ran as fire, fire, coast, coast. that is
what gave the distinve sound KB

--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on
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TeGGeR® 4 May 2005 01:54:07 permanent link ]
 Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote in news:RZCdndtvRdCHNu­rfRVn-iA@texas.net:
TeGGeR® wrote:>

It may be more correct to say that the volume is constantly>> *displacing*. Churn may result in at least some of the puffing.>
agreed, although that's pretty well damped out between the bottom of> the crankcase where the "churn" is and the top of a valve cover where> the breather usually is.


I wondered about that after I posted my message.

If there's a distinct "puffing", I would suspect a cylinder with> higher blow-by than the others.>
I *think* it may even be true that the net crankcase volume for an>>>odd number of cylinders greater than 1 is constant, but I'm not>>>positive about that.>>
An exception: Those Harley twins where both pistons can be moving in>> the same direction at the same time.>
Not an exception:



...a misreading instead. I missed that you were talkng specifically about
odd-numbers of cylinders. Two is an even number.


--
TeGGeR®

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CarGuru > Technology > Re: crankcase breather puffing air 4 May 2005 01:54:07

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