Engine type & Fuel Economy

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CarGuru > Technology > Engine type & Fuel Economy 10 March 2005 01:28:47

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Engine type & Fuel Economy
Tom Varco 7 March 2005 00:54:33
	First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I just "don't get." Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops drastically. Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my car (94 Buick Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and 65 MPH, there is barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's 01 Kia Sportage (4 Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does this mean that my car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start going even faster, or is there some other thing that could be causing it? Thanks, Tom Varco
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James C. Reeves 7 March 2005 00:55:57 [ permanent link ]
	Wind resistance increases exponentially. "Tom Varco" <vartoo@verizonNoSpam.net> wrote in message news:d6KWd.70166$8a6.35201@trndny09...> First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I > just "don't get."> Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops drastically. > Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my car (94 Buick > Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and 65 MPH, there is > barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's 01 Kia Sportage (4 > Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does this mean that my > car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start going even faster, > or is there some other thing that could be causing it?> Thanks,> Tom Varco
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Paul 7 March 2005 04:42:53 [ permanent link ]
	Tom Varco wrote:> First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I> just "don't get."> Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops> drastically. Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my> car (94 Buick Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and> 65 MPH, there is barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's> 01 Kia Sportage (4 Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does> this mean that my car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start> going even faster, or is there some other thing that could be causing it?> Thanks,> Tom Varco Wind resistance.
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Thomas Schдfer 7 March 2005 13:13:29 [ permanent link ]
	"Tom Varco" wrote Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops> drastically. Does this depend on the engine type? Depends on engine, gear and car (aerodynamics, weight). Although wind resistance rises with the square power of velocity, you will also give your engine a higher load (open throttle), which is better for fuel economy. Small engines/cars which already have a nearly open throttle at 60mph will suffer more than big ones (relativ to their minimum consumption). Thomas
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Jan Kalin 7 March 2005 14:03:03 [ permanent link ]
	In article <gr6dndcdq-LA87bfRVn-rQ@comcast.com>, James C. Reeves wrote:>Wind resistance increases exponentially. No, as a square of velocity. "Tom Varco" <vartoo@verizonNoSpam.net> wrote in message >news:d6KWd.70166$8a6.35201@trndny09...>> First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I >> just "don't get.">> Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops drastically. >> Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my car (94 Buick >> Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and 65 MPH, there is >> barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's 01 Kia Sportage (4 >> Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does this mean that my >> car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start going even faster, >> or is there some other thing that could be causing it?>> Thanks,>> Tom Varco > -- /"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English) \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si" X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings. / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.
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Bob 7 March 2005 17:36:57 [ permanent link ]
	Just for reference, "square of velocity" is the another way of saying "exponentially" if the exponent is 2 so James is correct and so are you. In reference to the original question. All engines also have an efficiency curve so there is an rpm/load where the engine is most efficient. While it takes less power to drive 50mph than 60, some cars are more efficient at 60 (use less fuel to make 1 hp) but keep in mind you need significantly more hp at 60 as others have said.. I used to have Cougar with the 5.0 motor. At 60mph it only ran 1500 rpm and at 80 it ran 2000. No matter how I drove, it almost always averaged 27mpg on the highway. So, I think the answer to your question is "it depends"... Regarding the difference between your Regal and Mom's Kia, the gearing is different due to the different sized motors and their available torque and power.. "Jan Kalin" <nobody@noknown.domain> wrote in message news:slrnd2o9r7.i50h1.nobody@oxy.zag.si...> In article <gr6dndcdq-LA87bfRVn-rQ@comcast.com>, James C. Reeves wrote:> >Wind resistance increases exponentially.> No, as a square of velocity.> "Tom Varco" <vartoo@verizonNoSpam.net> wrote in message> >news:d6KWd.70166$8a6.35201@trndny09...> >> First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I> >> just "don't get."> >> Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops drastically.> >> Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my car (94 Buick> >> Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and 65 MPH, there barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's 01 Kia Sportage (4> >> Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does this mean that my> >> car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start going even faster,> >> or is there some other thing that could be causing it?> >> Thanks,> >> Tom Varco> > --> /"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English)> \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si"> X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings.> / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.
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Sdlomi2 7 March 2005 18:00:26 [ permanent link ]
	"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:gr6dndcdq-LA87bfRVn-rQ@comcast.com...> Wind resistance increases exponentially.> snip<< ...and so often forgotten/overlooked/didn't know in the 1st place(me!).........but good to know & remember. s
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Jan Kalin 7 March 2005 18:17:01 [ permanent link ]
	In article <d0hle3$d0e$1@home.itg.ti.com>, bob wrote:>Just for reference, "square of velocity" is the another way of saying>"exponentially" if the exponent is 2 so James is correct and so are you. No! An exponential function is of the form f(x) = a^x (i.e., some constant raised to the power of x), whereas a power function is of the form f(x) = x^b (i.e., x raised to the power of b). Totally different functions. [SNIP]> "Jan Kalin" <nobody@noknown.domain> wrote in message>news:slrnd2o9r7.i50h1.nobody@oxy.zag.si...>> In article <gr6dndcdq-LA87bfRVn-rQ@comcast.com>, James C. Reeves wrote:>> >Wind resistance increases exponentially.>> No, as a square of velocity. -- /"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English) \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si" X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings. / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.
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Steve 7 March 2005 20:49:48 [ permanent link ]
	Tom Varco wrote: First off, I know nothing about cars, so there is probably something I > just "don't get."> Fueleconomy.gov states that above 60 MPH, fuel economy drops > drastically. Does this depend on the engine type? For example, in my > car (94 Buick Regal, V6 3.8), when I compare Engine RPM at 55, 60, and > 65 MPH, there is barely any difference. However, when I drive my mom's > 01 Kia Sportage (4 Cylinder), the RPM difference is much larger. Does > this mean that my car's fuel economy isn't really affected until I start > going even faster, or is there some other thing that could be causing it?> Thanks,> Tom Varco Wind resistance increases as the cube of speed, no getting around that. But there's wiggle room as to exactly what speed is "optimum" for a given car and engine combo. Gearing, coefficient of drag can be fiddled with so that the speed of peak efficiency can be much higher for one car /engine combo than another. With one gear ratio, a car might hit its peak mileage at 60 mph, but by going to a different ratio you can move the peak up to 70 (although it will probably be lower than the peak at 60) or down to 50.
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Steve 7 March 2005 20:50:43 [ permanent link ]
	bob wrote: Just for reference, "square of velocity" is the another way of saying> "exponentially" if the exponent is 2 so James is correct and so are you.> Except that I'm pretty sure that for wind resistance, the exponent is 3. It goes as the cube of velocity, not the square.
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Jan Kalin 7 March 2005 21:14:37 [ permanent link ]
	In article <7L2dnSpANe7_G7HfRVn-gg@texas.net>, Steve wrote:>bob wrote:> Just for reference, "square of velocity" is the another way of saying>> "exponentially" if the exponent is 2 so James is correct and so are you.>> Except that I'm pretty sure that for wind resistance, the exponent is 3. >It goes as the cube of velocity, not the square. Nope, air resistance in the turbulent regime depends quadratically on speed. See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/airfri.html -- /"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English) \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si" X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings. / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.
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Steve 7 March 2005 23:02:32 [ permanent link ]
	Jan Kalin wrote: In article <7L2dnSpANe7_G7HfRVn-gg@texas.net>, Steve wrote:> bob wrote:>> Just for reference, "square of velocity" is the another way of saying>>>"exponentially" if the exponent is 2 so James is correct and so are you.>>> Except that I'm pretty sure that for wind resistance, the exponent is 3. >>It goes as the cube of velocity, not the square.> Nope, air resistance in the turbulent regime depends quadratically on> speed. See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/airfri.html My old fart's memory sits corrected.
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Thomas Schдfer 8 March 2005 11:46:26 [ permanent link ]
	"Martijn van Duijn" wrote On a related issue: it is always suggested to accelerate gently to> conserve fuel. Not in Europe! You find a lot of advises to accelerate with low rpm (shift as soon as possible) and push the accelerator 3/4 (not always 4/4, because there may be fuel enrichment). Wouldn't give open throttle acceleration to the desired> speed give the best economy? A certain amount of work needs to be done> to reach that speed, and the work is done most efficiently at full> throttle... You're exactly right. With a manual transmission it's easy to acomplish. With an automatic transmission you will push the accelarator until short before kick down. Thomas
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Thomas Schдfer 8 March 2005 11:48:27 [ permanent link ]
	"Steve" wrote Wind resistance increases as the cube of speed, no getting around that. Wrong: resistance increases with the square, power (to overcome the resistance) with the cube. Thomas
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Don Stauffer in Minneapolis 8 March 2005 18:48:20 [ permanent link ]
	Steve wrote: Wind resistance increases as the cube of speed, no getting around that.> The FORCE of resistance goes as the square. The POWER needed to drive the force at any given velocity varies as the cube. So the fuel consumption does go as cube. However, in aerodynamics, "resistance" is usually taken to be the drag force, which again is the square.
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C. E. White 8 March 2005 19:46:55 [ permanent link ]
	Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:> Steve wrote:> Wind resistance increases as the cube of speed, no getting around that.> > The FORCE of resistance goes as the square. The POWER needed to drive> the force at any given velocity varies as the cube. So the fuel> consumption does go as cube. Not if you are measuring consumption as miles per gallon. Consumption in terms of gallons per unit time is cubed, but not in terms of distance traveled. Ed
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Don Stauffer in Minneapolis 10 March 2005 01:28:47 [ permanent link ]
	C. E. White wrote: Don Stauffer in Minneapolis wrote:> Steve wrote:>> Wind resistance increases as the cube of speed, no getting around that.>>> The FORCE of resistance goes as the square. The POWER needed to drive>>the force at any given velocity varies as the cube. So the fuel>>consumption does go as cube.> Not if you are measuring consumption as miles per gallon.> Consumption in terms of gallons per unit time is cubed, but> not in terms of distance traveled.> Ed True, I meant specific fuel consumption, rate per hour. That is of course a non-typical measurement for automobiles, much more common on aircraft and I should have pointed this out.
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CarGuru > Technology > Engine type & Fuel Economy 10 March 2005 01:28:47

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