helicoil or similar for blind hole?

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helicoil or similar for blind hole?
Nate Nagel 31 May 2006 01:12:32
	Hi all, I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I am hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, and am wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a tap all the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the end off to make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off the little tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what I'm trying to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? only place I've seen them used is on old Porsches...) thanks, nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
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Chas Hurst 30 May 2006 08:11:49 [ permanent link ]
	"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message news:e5gelg0ouj@news3.newsguy.com...> Hi all,> I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old > Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I am > hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, and am > wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a tap all > the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the end off to > make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off the little > tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what I'm trying > to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? only place I've > seen them used is on old Porsches...)> thanks,> nate You could grind off the end of the helicoil tap and make a bottom tap-after you start tap the hole. There's no need to remove the tang if it's at the bottom of a blind hole. McMaster-Carr has an assortment of inserts.
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John_H 30 May 2006 08:41:36 [ permanent link ]
	Nate Nagel wrote:> I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old >Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I >am hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, >and am wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a >tap all the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the >end off to make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off >the little tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what >I'm trying to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? >only place I've seen them used is on old Porsches...) Helicoil taps supplied in kits are all bottoming taps (at least I've never seen one that wasn't. The insert manufacturers also supply tang breaking tools but none work any better than hemostats, which are cheaper as well as being useful for other things. The trick is to cut the insert to the correct length before you fit it. Alternatively you can get a tool for backing them out of a blind hole (which looks like an arrow head). The open end of the insert needs to be a quarter of a turn or so below flush when fitted... nor can you bottom out the tang end as it will cause the threads to bind when you screw a bolt into it. A helicoil insert is a lot stronger than the original thread, so you don't need the same depth of thread. You can also break off the tang with a pin punch if the insert is fitted correctly (isn't bottomed out) but hemostats are the foolproof way to do it. Other thread inserts exist, eg Caterpillar, but the only advantage is they take a bit less skill to fit. The disadvantages are many. -- John H
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Pete C. 30 May 2006 16:55:08 [ permanent link ]
	Nate Nagel wrote:> Hi all,> I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old> Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I> am hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair,> and am wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a> tap all the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the> end off to make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off> the little tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what> I'm trying to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them?> only place I've seen them used is on old Porsches...)> thanks,> nate> --> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel All you need is a bottoming tap which should be readily available. There are also other styles of insert (the solid ones come to mind) that might be better for the app. Check the MSC and McMaster sites for lots of options for both inserts and taps. Pete C.
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Dave Baker 30 May 2006 17:25:19 [ permanent link ]
	"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message news:e5gelg0ouj@news3.newsguy.com...> Hi all,> I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old > Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I am > hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, and am > wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a tap all > the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the end off to > make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off the little > tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what I'm trying > to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? only place I've > seen them used is on old Porsches...) 90% of all helicoils fitted either as OE or for repairs are into blind holes so I'm not sure why this should be a problem for you. For the standard 1.5xD helicoil you need a hole about 2xD deep to ensure the standard tap doesn't bottom out before cutting enough threads but yes you can grind the chamfered end of the tap down further to make a tap that's more of a 'bottoming' tap if it's a problem. Measure your hole depth before you start and drill it a tad deeper if necessary if there is spare metal to play with. Threaded holes less than 2xD deep are pretty rare though. The tang is simple enough to deal with. You can tap it off with the supplied tool or a screwdriver and shake or vacuum it out of the hole. -- Dave Baker www.pumaracing.co.uk
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Stan Weiss 30 May 2006 18:21:57 [ permanent link ]
	N8N wrote:> Dave Baker wrote:> > "Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message> > news:e5gelg0ouj@news3.newsguy.com...> > > Hi all,> > > I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old> > > Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I am> > > hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, and am> > > wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a tap all> > > the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the end off to> > > make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off the little> > > tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what I'm trying> > > to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? only place I've> > > seen them used is on old Porsches...)> > 90% of all helicoils fitted either as OE or for repairs are into blind holes> > so I'm not sure why this should be a problem for you. For the standard 1.5xD> > helicoil you need a hole about 2xD deep to ensure the standard tap doesn't> > bottom out before cutting enough threads but yes you can grind the chamfered> > end of the tap down further to make a tap that's more of a 'bottoming' tap> > if it's a problem. Measure your hole depth before you start and drill it a> > tad deeper if necessary if there is spare metal to play with. Threaded holes> > less than 2xD deep are pretty rare though.> > The tang is simple enough to deal with. You can tap it off with the supplied> > tool or a screwdriver and shake or vacuum it out of the hole.> > --> > Dave Baker> > www.pumaracing.co.uk> to be specific, this is a 5/16" UNC bolt that's probably about 1/2"> long that threads into the aluminum body of the viscous drive unit. I> really, really, really don't want to fork up this viscous drive because> a) it still works and b) the water pump snout of a Studebaker is unique> and fairly large in diameter, meaning that modding, say, a Chevy> viscous drive is not an option as it would weaken the hub of the> viscous drive to bore it out to the Studebaker size.> I'm hesitant to say that there's spare material to play with as I> haven't taken one of these apart before; it's kind of a sealed unit> meaning that disassembly is possible but reassembly is a little more> problematic > After reading the posts, I think that I will probably end up grinding> down an insert to work; I will probably only have 3 or 4 threads but> that should be good enough, there weren't that many to begin with.> In other news, at least the engine is running (borrowed another fan to> run it in on the stand) and I am really happy with the way it revs up> with the aluminum flywheel. Was kind of an expensive "option" but I> think I will enjoy driving it a lot more with the aluminum unit as> opposed to the stock (cast iron? steel? not sure but it weighs 40+> lbs. and makes the engine a little less responsive than it could be)> unit. Am going to try to use a Chevy diaphragm pressure plate as well> for lighter pedal feel; I'm told that only minor mods to the> bellhousing are required...> nate There is a down side to an aluminum flywheel. You will notice a difference in how much (more) gas peddle is need whenever you pull away from a stop light. Stan
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Pete C. 30 May 2006 21:47:32 [ permanent link ]
	N8N wrote:> Dave Baker wrote:> > "Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message> > news:e5gelg0ouj@news3.newsguy.com...> > > Hi all,> > > I have a thermostatic fan clutch that I'd like to use on my old> > > Studebaker, but one of the holes where the fan bolts on is stripped. I am> > > hesitant to drill any farther into the housing to make the repair, and am> > > wondering how one deals with this situation where one can't run a tap all> > > the way through. If I were to take a Helicoil tap and cut the end off to> > > make a bottoming tap would that work? How do you break off the little> > > tang in this instance? Or is there a better product for what I'm trying> > > to do? (Timeserts? but where do you actually buy them? only place I've> > > seen them used is on old Porsches...)> > 90% of all helicoils fitted either as OE or for repairs are into blind holes> > so I'm not sure why this should be a problem for you. For the standard 1.5xD> > helicoil you need a hole about 2xD deep to ensure the standard tap doesn't> > bottom out before cutting enough threads but yes you can grind the chamfered> > end of the tap down further to make a tap that's more of a 'bottoming' tap> > if it's a problem. Measure your hole depth before you start and drill it a> > tad deeper if necessary if there is spare metal to play with. Threaded holes> > less than 2xD deep are pretty rare though.> > The tang is simple enough to deal with. You can tap it off with the supplied> > tool or a screwdriver and shake or vacuum it out of the hole.> > --> > Dave Baker> > www.pumaracing.co.uk> to be specific, this is a 5/16" UNC bolt that's probably about 1/2"> long that threads into the aluminum body of the viscous drive unit. I> really, really, really don't want to fork up this viscous drive because> a) it still works and b) the water pump snout of a Studebaker is unique> and fairly large in diameter, meaning that modding, say, a Chevy> viscous drive is not an option as it would weaken the hub of the> viscous drive to bore it out to the Studebaker size.> I'm hesitant to say that there's spare material to play with as I> haven't taken one of these apart before; it's kind of a sealed unit> meaning that disassembly is possible but reassembly is a little more> problematic > After reading the posts, I think that I will probably end up grinding> down an insert to work; I will probably only have 3 or 4 threads but> that should be good enough, there weren't that many to begin with.> In other news, at least the engine is running (borrowed another fan to> run it in on the stand) and I am really happy with the way it revs up> with the aluminum flywheel. Was kind of an expensive "option" but I> think I will enjoy driving it a lot more with the aluminum unit as> opposed to the stock (cast iron? steel? not sure but it weighs 40+> lbs. and makes the engine a little less responsive than it could be)> unit. Am going to try to use a Chevy diaphragm pressure plate as well> for lighter pedal feel; I'm told that only minor mods to the> bellhousing are required...> nate You could perhaps fill in the hole with a TIG and start fresh. Perhaps one of the JB Weld type products. Pete C.
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John_H 31 May 2006 01:12:32 [ permanent link ]
	N8N wrote:> After reading the posts, I think that I will probably end up grinding>down an insert to work; I will probably only have 3 or 4 threads but>that should be good enough, there weren't that many to begin with. To shorten a helicoil type insert simply chop off the unwanted length from the coil with sidecutters. It takes half a second and works fine. -- John H
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helicoil or similar for blind hole?

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