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CarGuru > Saab > Why is this newsgroup all technical troubleshooting? 7 May 2005 23:42:10

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Why is this newsgroup all technical troubleshooting?
Saab Guy 27 April 2005 18:43:09
	All, Why does this newsgroup only appear to be people trying to troubleshoot their Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? In the next few months I will have nearly 50 good Saab videos for all of us to download! Saab Guy
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Johannes 27 April 2005 19:02:53 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> All,> Why does this newsgroup only appear to be people trying to troubleshoot their Saabs?> In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events,> and so forth? This is generally not true, odd topics appear from time to time. Make your own contributions. In the next few months I will have nearly 50 good Saab videos for all of us to> download!> Most welcome, then post the URL. Remember this is not a binary newsgroup.
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Malt_Hound 27 April 2005 19:12:46 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> All,> Why does this newsgroup only appear to be people trying to troubleshoot their Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? > In the next few months I will have nearly 50 good Saab videos for all of us to download!> Saab Guy Saab guy, If you really are a SAAB guy (and not just a new SAAB owner) you'd know that the most revered of the Trollhattan iron are the older models. The older the better... Loving, owning and nuturing the oldies (but goodies) is what makes most of the folks on the newsgroup tick. I find the same to be true (but to a slightly lesser extent) in the a.a.bmws group. I think most of the opinions about the current direction for SAAB (GM) in the areas that you mention are negative, and who likes to dwell on the negatives? -Fred W
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Dave Hinz 27 April 2005 19:42:38 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:43:09 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> All,> Why does this newsgroup only appear to be people trying to troubleshoot their Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? It does? In the next few months I will have nearly 50 good Saab videos for all of us to download! Good. Got a Saab Suite, by the way? I have a not so good .mpg of it you could get a copy of if you like, and _somewhere_ I have it on VHS.
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Saab Guy 27 April 2005 21:28:47 [ permanent link ]
	Fred, I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end. Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that. I also respect the old Saabs as well as I own a few of them myself. Saab Guy On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:12:46 -0400 Malt_Hound <Malt_Hound@spamyahoo.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> > All,> > Why does this newsgroup only appear to be people trying to troubleshoot their Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? > > In the next few months I will have nearly 50 good Saab videos for all of us to download!> > Saab Guy> Saab guy,> If you really are a SAAB guy (and not just a new SAAB owner) you'd > know that the most revered of the Trollhattan iron are the older models. > The older the better...> Loving, owning and nuturing the oldies (but goodies) is what makes most > of the folks on the newsgroup tick. I find the same to be true (but to > a slightly lesser extent) in the a.a.bmws group.> I think most of the opinions about the current direction for SAAB (GM) > in the areas that you mention are negative, and who likes to dwell on > the negatives?> -Fred W
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Grunff 27 April 2005 21:52:51 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote: I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end. > Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that. The problem for me is that once upon a time, you could drive a Saab and you'd know it was a Saab. Take the C900 (the car I'm most familiar with). Compare it to any of its contemporaries, and you find it was miles ahead in so many ways. Now take a 9^3, or even a 9^5. Compare it with other cars in the class. Are they different? Are they better? -- Grunff
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Saab Guy 27 April 2005 22:19:52 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:52:51 +0100 Grunff <grunff@ixxa.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end. > > Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.> The problem for me is that once upon a time, you could drive a Saab and > you'd know it was a Saab. Take the C900 (the car I'm most familiar > with). Compare it to any of its contemporaries, and you find it was > miles ahead in so many ways. Now take a 9^3, or even a 9^5. Compare it > with other cars in the class. Are they different? Are they better?> -- > Grunff Grunff, I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different. I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy. It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good! I am trying to collect all the Vides now to keep the passion alive for myself and others! Saab Guy
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Grunff 27 April 2005 22:36:57 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote: I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different. I actually meant better than its peers. You can argue for a loong time about whether a C900 is 'better' than a 9^3 - I don't think that matters. To me, the real question is: It's clear that a C900 was a much better car than the vast majority of directly comparable cars available during its production run. Can the same be said of a 9^3? I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.> It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good! Hmm, interesting idea -- Grunff
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Saab Guy 27 April 2005 22:54:30 [ permanent link ]
	Grunff, I'm glad you think that's an interesting idea. It would actually be possible ironically since Saab's factory in TrollhГ¤tten is currently running at half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000 and NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which of course use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded (not falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contemporary models). You know they had the Viggen, but they could always bring in models such as the following "Gripen" "Draken" "Tunnan" "Lansen" "Safir" Also keep in mind Talladega was had in 1986 with the C9000 and 1996 with the NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega international speedway? Saab Guy Saab Guy wrote:> I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different. > I actually meant better than its peers. You can argue for a loong time > about whether a C900 is 'better' than a 9^3 - I don't think that matters.> To me, the real question is: It's clear that a C900 was a much better > car than the vast majority of directly comparable cars available during > its production run. Can the same be said of a 9^3?> I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.> > It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!> Hmm, interesting idea > -- > Grunff
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Ma_twain 28 April 2005 02:48:24 [ permanent link ]
	The sad part is, GM would force Saab to use as many common GM parts as possible in the commemorative/vintage C900. A saturn engine and those crappy electrical components that keep failing under warranty in all of the other GM models. Perhaps they will even buy the fire starting FORD cruise control units - because they are cheaper. To quote the GM execs "No one cares what is in the car, all they want is the Saab name". Saab Guy wrote: Grunff,> I'm glad you think that's an interesting idea. It would actually be possible ironically since Saab's factory in TrollhГ¤tten is currently running at half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000 and NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which of course use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded (not falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contemporary models).> You know they had the Viggen, but they could always bring in models such as the following> "Gripen"> "Draken"> "Tunnan"> "Lansen"> "Safir"> Also keep in mind Talladega was had in 1986 with the C9000 and 1996 with the NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega international speedway?> Saab Guy> Saab Guy wrote:>> I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different. >>> I actually meant better than its peers. You can argue for a loong time >>about whether a C900 is 'better' than a 9^3 - I don't think that matters.>> To me, the real question is: It's clear that a C900 was a much better >>car than the vast majority of directly comparable cars available during >>its production run. Can the same be said of a 9^3?>> I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.>>>It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!>>> Hmm, interesting idea >> -- >>Grunff>>
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Saab Guy 28 April 2005 02:52:32 [ permanent link ]
	MA_TWAIN, I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tommy Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really. I wish A) the European Union didn't force Scania to separate from Saab or vice versa or potentially B) Ford buying Saab as well may have been a good idea opposed to GM as Saab has worked with Ford in the past (ie. Remember the Saab model 96 with the Ford V4 engine)? Saab Guy On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:48:24 -0400 ma_twain <ma_twain@yahoo.com> wrote: The sad part is, GM would force Saab to use as many common GM parts as > possible in the commemorative/vintage C900. A saturn engine and those > crappy electrical components that keep failing under warranty in all of > the other GM models. Perhaps they will even buy the fire starting FORD > cruise control units - because they are cheaper. To quote the GM execs > "No one cares what is in the car, all they want is the Saab name".> Saab Guy wrote:> Grunff,> > I'm glad you think that's an interesting idea. It would actually be possible ironically since Saab's factory in TrollhГ¤tten is currently running at half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000 and NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which of course use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded (not falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contemporary models).> > You know they had the Viggen, but they could always bring in models such as the following> > "Gripen"> > "Draken"> > "Tunnan"> > "Lansen"> > "Safir"> > Also keep in mind Talladega was had in 1986 with the C9000 and 1996 with the NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega international speedway?> > Saab Guy> > Saab Guy wrote:> >> I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different. > >>> I actually meant better than its peers. You can argue for a loong time > >>about whether a C900 is 'better' than a 9^3 - I don't think that matters.> >> To me, the real question is: It's clear that a C900 was a much better > >>car than the vast majority of directly comparable cars available during > >>its production run. Can the same be said of a 9^3?> >> I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.> >>>It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!> >>> Hmm, interesting idea > >> -- > >>Grunff> >>
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Craig's Saab C900 Site 28 April 2005 03:14:05 [ permanent link ]
	Grunff <grunff@ixxa.com> writes: Saab Guy wrote: I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end. >> Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that. The problem for me is that once upon a time, you could drive a Saab and >you'd know it was a Saab. Take the C900 (the car I'm most familiar >with). Compare it to any of its contemporaries, and you find it was >miles ahead in so many ways. Now take a 9^3, or even a 9^5. Compare it >with other cars in the class. Are they different? Are they better? IMHO, the answer to both is no. Craig. -- Craig's Saab C900 Page --> http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 Sydney, NSW Australia Craig's Saab C900 Workshop -- For all Saab C900 Enthusiasts world-wide! http://www.saab900classic.net http://www.saab900.org c900@lios.apana.org.au Come and explore our site, and check out our web-forums, mailing list, etc.
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James Sweet 28 April 2005 06:58:48 [ permanent link ]
	At the end of the day, I fear the mantra of 'Shareholder Value' in> > conjunction with 'Brand Exploitation' has done great harm over the last or so years to a lot of great products including automobiles. Individually> > and in balance with "Product and Service Improvement" they work great -> > but ignoring the latter two in favour of the first two as a leading policy> > at the executive level... Well - you end up losing 1.2 billion on the> > biggest incorporated production and finance enterprise ever developed...> > GM is far from the only company with this problem. Marketers are always talking about the value of brand names while studies show that consumer value of brands is plummeting. It's no surprise, you can fool people for a while by slapping a well known name on junk, but once people figure it out there's no going back, that name is forever associated with junk.
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Grunff 28 April 2005 13:00:31 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J wrote: Hey brother grunff - how is the BMW trist holding up? Still wine and roses? Still pretty good Dex, thanks. Looking for a second one for Mrs G. -- Grunff
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Dave Hinz 28 April 2005 17:06:32 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:52:32 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> MA_TWAIN,> I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tommy Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really. Did you know that your line length is at 400 or something, and requires sideways scrolling for many readers?
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Dexter J 28 April 2005 19:06:17 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:00:31 +0100, Grunff <grunff@ixxa.com> wrote: Dexter J wrote:> Hey brother grunff - how is the BMW trist holding up? Still wine and >> roses?> Still pretty good Dex, thanks. Looking for a second one for Mrs G. You know - you often read about how a little three way experimentation in a longer term marriage sometimes turns into a change of heart for the missus.. .. .. Actually, very pleased to hear it's turning out. I'm a sucker for the 9000 as you know - but I have heard that the right BMW models are pretty good comfort-wise. I keep seeing estate versions from the mid-90's around town and there was a very interesting used diesel sedan on the market last winter. How do you find your's on fuel overall? -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Johnny Favourite - Country Club http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/178.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Grunff 28 April 2005 19:32:37 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J wrote: You know - you often read about how a little three way experimentation > in a longer term marriage sometimes turns into a change of heart for > the missus.. Lol How do you find your's on fuel overall? I get around 29mpg overall (that's our gallons, which are bigger than US gallons - 1.2 US to a UK). My T16 gets about 27mpg. I'm pretty happy with that. -- Grunff
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Saab Guy 28 April 2005 19:40:41 [ permanent link ]
	Gruff, Is that what happened with you two guys and your wife? SaabGuy On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:32:37 +0100 Grunff <grunff@ixxa.com> wrote: Dexter J wrote:> You know - you often read about how a little three way experimentation > > in a longer term marriage sometimes turns into a change of heart for > > the missus..> How do you find your's on fuel overall?> I get around 29mpg overall (that's our gallons, which are bigger than US > gallons - 1.2 US to a UK). My T16 gets about 27mpg. I'm pretty happy > with that.> -- > Grunff
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 00:39:48 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote: Fred,> I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.> Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.> I also respect the old Saabs as well as I own a few of them myself. There's a 96 that keeps turning up here in 'my' road. Maybe putting out that dish of oil did the trick ? You'll have more fans btw if you learn the accepted practice of 'bottom posting' that preserves that thread ( the opposite of typical practice for email ) and configure your weird newsreader I never heard of - Sylpheed version 0.9.8a - what is that ? - so that it wraps lines before you reach about 120 characters. Your posts disappear off the right hand side of my 21" screen and I have to scroll right to see what you wrote ! Graham
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 01:35:41 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:39:48 +0100, Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> Fred,>> I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's >> direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final >> nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the >> recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful >> in whatever comes out at the end.>> Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, >> not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and >> that's that.>> I also respect the old Saabs as well as I own a few of them myself.> There's a 96 that keeps turning up here in 'my' road. Maybe putting out > that dish of oil did the trick ? SAAB's are sort of like stray cats that way, works every time. .. .. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Johnny Favourite - Country Club http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/178.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 01:41:14 [ permanent link ]
	Graham, I don't know what to say, I am running 1200 x 1600 resolution, perhap's that is it? Saab Guy On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:39:48 +0100 Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> Fred,> > I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.> > Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.> > I also respect the old Saabs as well as I own a few of them myself.> There's a 96 that keeps turning up here in 'my' road. Maybe putting out that dish of oil did the trick ? > You'll have more fans btw if you learn the accepted practice of 'bottom posting' that preserves that thread ( the opposite of typical practice for email ) and configure your weird newsreader I never heard of - Sylpheed version 0.9.8a - what is that ? - so that it wraps lines before you reach about 120> characters.> Your posts disappear off the right hand side of my 21" screen and I have to scroll right to see what you wrote !> Graham>
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 02:03:50 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:41:14 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> Graham,> I don't know what to say, I am running 1200 x 1600 resolution, perhap's that is it? No, it's that neither you or your newsreader are inserting a newline at page width.
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 02:32:04 [ permanent link ]
	Dave Hinz wrote: On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:41:14 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Graham,> > I don't know what to say, I am running 1200 x 1600 resolution, perhap's that is it?> No, it's that neither you or your newsreader are inserting a newline> at page width. In Netscape 4.8 which I still prefer for text newsgroups - the setting is for example to be found under Preferences, Messages, Message Wrapping... Wrap outgoing plain text messages at ( 72 ) characters. And he's still top-posting ! Graham
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 02:34:14 [ permanent link ]
	Craig's Saab C900 Site wrote: Grunff <grunff@ixxa.com> writes:> Saab Guy wrote:> I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.> >> Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.> The problem for me is that once upon a time, you could drive a Saab and> >you'd know it was a Saab. Take the C900 (the car I'm most familiar> >with). Compare it to any of its contemporaries, and you find it was> >miles ahead in so many ways. Now take a 9^3, or even a 9^5. Compare it> >with other cars in the class. Are they different? Are they better?> IMHO, the answer to both is no. Are many cars that unique to drive any more outside of the supercar league ? Aside from losing the rear end on RWD cars of course. Graham
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Four Weis @cox.net 29 April 2005 04:07:07 [ permanent link ]
	Dave Hinz wrote: On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:52:32 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote: > MA_TWAIN, >> I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tommy Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really. >> Did you know that your line length is at 400 or something, and requires > sideways scrolling for many readers? > Hopefully this will not be linesize 400. Just my opinion, from owning Volvos since 1982 and driving my father's P1800s starting in 1970. The newer Volvos suffer from similar problems. They are designed to make a profit first. The older Volvos earned the reputation for safety. The newer ones meet the 5 star crash rating only if you have all of the optional airbags. The newer ones also cost much more to maintain. Two examples: the power window switches have become one unit so if one switch fails you replace the whole unit, if you catch a rock in the headlight of an S80, if will cost at least $600 to replace because you need to take the bumper off. In the older 240 series you could replace just the switch for the power windows or clean it for free. I can replace the headlight in my 245 for $10 in 5 minutes - moving slowly. Replace two headlights on an S80 and you could replace the turbocharger in a 240 for the same price.
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 05:35:05 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:07:07 -0400, Four Weis @cox.net <FourWeis@cox.net> wrote:> Hopefully this will not be linesize 400.> Just my opinion, from owning Volvos since 1982 and driving my father's> P1800s starting in 1970. The newer Volvos suffer from similar problems.> They are designed to make a profit first. The older Volvos earned the> reputation for safety. The newer ones meet the 5 star crash rating only> if you have all of the optional airbags. The newer ones also cost much> more to maintain. Two examples: the power window switches have become> one unit so if one switch fails you replace the whole unit, if you catch> a rock in the headlight of an S80, if will cost at least $600 to replace> because you need to take the bumper off. In the older 240 series you> could replace just the switch for the power windows or clean it for> free. I can replace the headlight in my 245 for $10 in 5 minutes -> moving slowly. Replace two headlights on an S80 and you could replace> the turbocharger in a 240 for the same price. Crap and a half - I was hoping for better from Volvo. Well - I guess my position that it is really cheaper in the long haul to simply keep fixing up an older model isn't so zany after all. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Johnny Favourite - Country Club http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/178.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 06:43:13 [ permanent link ]
	I checked preferences and it is set to 72 characters, hmm. On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:32:04 +0100 Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote: Dave Hinz wrote:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:41:14 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> > > Graham,> > > I don't know what to say, I am running 1200 x 1600 resolution, perhap's that is it?> > No, it's that neither you or your newsreader are inserting a newline> > at page width.> In Netscape 4.8 which I still prefer for text newsgroups - the setting is for example to> be found under Preferences, Messages, Message Wrapping...> Wrap outgoing plain text messages at ( 72 ) characters.> And he's still top-posting !> Graham>
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 06:48:55 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter, I know, for years my friends and neighbors thought I was simply ridiculous spending all sorts of money in maintaining my Saab. They were all about "buy a new one and rid yourself of the hassle and costs, etc.." I was telling them, they were crazy and being taken by the company's marketing..Then again it's good to do both because without new car sales, then the company won't be in business if everyone out there hung onto their Saab 99. If that was the case, then Saab would basically be a parts-only business and the model 99 for instance, would be the last car they ever made, now that would be bad. Saab Guy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:35:05 GMT "Dexter J" <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote: Salutations:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:07:07 -0400, Four Weis @cox.net <FourWeis@cox.net> > wrote:> > Hopefully this will not be linesize 400.> > Just my opinion, from owning Volvos since 1982 and driving my father's> > P1800s starting in 1970. The newer Volvos suffer from similar problems.> > They are designed to make a profit first. The older Volvos earned the> > reputation for safety. The newer ones meet the 5 star crash rating only> > if you have all of the optional airbags. The newer ones also cost much> > more to maintain. Two examples: the power window switches have become> > one unit so if one switch fails you replace the whole unit, if you catch> > a rock in the headlight of an S80, if will cost at least $600 to replace> > because you need to take the bumper off. In the older 240 series you> > could replace just the switch for the power windows or clean it for> > free. I can replace the headlight in my 245 for $10 in 5 minutes -> > moving slowly. Replace two headlights on an S80 and you could replace> > the turbocharger in a 240 for the same price.> Crap and a half - I was hoping for better from Volvo.> Well - I guess my position that it is really cheaper in the long haul to > simply keep fixing up an older model isn't so zany after all.> --> Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day> Johnny Favourite - Country Club> http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/178.RAM> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 07:39:39 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:48:55 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote: Dexter,> I know, for years my friends and neighbors thought I was simply > ridiculous spending all sorts of money in maintaining my Saab. They were > all about "buy a new one and rid yourself of the hassle and costs, > etc.." I was telling them, they were crazy and being taken by the > company's marketing..Then again it's good to do both because without new > car sales, then the company won't be in business if everyone out there > hung onto their Saab 99. If that was the case, then Saab would basically > be a parts-only business and the model 99 for instance, would be the > last car they ever made, now that would be bad.> Saab Guy Hah! We are just talking about that over at my local .general group - very interesting. "Really, everyone gets boned by the lowest competitive bid economy if you rely upon it exclusively." .. is about where we are at in the thread.. I guess my counter is that if the engineering cost management group cannot arrange a cost formula to provide for a 10 cent loom connector instead of a 5 cent one in manufacture as regards my earlier post about our 1993 Aero (a list $35,000 car) - then I have to take some responsibility for the Automobile in question and uprate the design in the field. Given that I have to uprate in the field to maximize my ROI as regards choosing their Brand over another - cost driven by their retail parts lists - the decision in the cost management group limits my real ability to expend future resources on newer models. That was my point early regarding SAAB's approach regarding incremental engineering improvements through the 70's and 80's. You would drive in with a car that usually hadn't expensive failed during its financing term with you - often into the 200,000km range. There was a demonstratively better model of much the same thing on the floor - which you could usually drive happily away at a similar monthly payment. Now that is not to say that there weren't some real lemons and bad service out there - but the above outlined experience was more often the case than not. They were building the Brand value at a lower rate of return to the investors - but in trade - they were able to reliably predict investor earnings over time. Then - and I think we all really share some blame here on a lot of economic fronts here - consumers everywhere started to chase the lowest competitive bid, using Branding to limit the obvious risk exposure inherent in the buying pattern. While at the same time, effectively voting with our collective Retirement and Mutual funds as regards earnings expectations which, finally, limited public capital available to enterprises engaging in lower return engineering in trade for reliable earning predictably by the early 90's. Effectively - that was really when the great 'takeover' barons decided to harvest the lower 40. And, in my opinion at least, why my Ritz cracker sux and my otherwise really very well built 1993 Aero - has a surprisingly under-engineered 5 cent connector when, clearly, it needed a 10 cent one. Like I said - I get chastised for this sort of thing every so often.. Sorry.. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Johnny Favourite - Country Club http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/178.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 10:14:40 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J wrote: Salutations:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:07:07 -0400, Four Weis @cox.net <FourWeis@cox.net>> wrote:> > Hopefully this will not be linesize 400.> > Just my opinion, from owning Volvos since 1982 and driving my father's> > P1800s starting in 1970. The newer Volvos suffer from similar problems.> > They are designed to make a profit first. The older Volvos earned the> > reputation for safety. The newer ones meet the 5 star crash rating only> > if you have all of the optional airbags. The newer ones also cost much> > more to maintain. Two examples: the power window switches have become> > one unit so if one switch fails you replace the whole unit, if you catch> > a rock in the headlight of an S80, if will cost at least $600 to replace> > because you need to take the bumper off. In the older 240 series you> > could replace just the switch for the power windows or clean it for> > free. I can replace the headlight in my 245 for $10 in 5 minutes -> > moving slowly. Replace two headlights on an S80 and you could replace> > the turbocharger in a 240 for the same price.> Crap and a half - I was hoping for better from Volvo.> Well - I guess my position that it is really cheaper in the long haul to> simply keep fixing up an older model isn't so zany after all. If you like 9000s - buy a nice example now and treasure it. Not too expensive to fix esp with salvage parts and will run for a long long time. They are so cheap to buy in the Uk, it's painful. Graham
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Simo Melenius 29 April 2005 16:00:28 [ permanent link ]
	ma_twain <ma_twain@yahoo.com> writes: of the other GM models. Perhaps they will even buy the fire starting> FORD cruise control units - because they are cheaper. To quote the GM> execs "No one cares what is in the car, all they want is the Saab> name". Now, if only the executives had figured out the answer to this question: "Where did the value of the Saab name come from?", they would have become enlightened. br:s -- firstname.lastname@iki.fi -- Today is the car of the cdr of your life.
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 17:57:22 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:32:04 +0100, Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:> Dave Hinz wrote:> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:41:14 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:>> > Graham,>> > I don't know what to say, I am running 1200 x 1600 resolution, perhap's that is it?>> No, it's that neither you or your newsreader are inserting a newline>> at page width.> In Netscape 4.8 which I still prefer for text newsgroups - the setting is for example to> be found under Preferences, Messages, Message Wrapping...> Wrap outgoing plain text messages at ( 72 ) characters.> And he's still top-posting ! That too - I figured one thing at a time. Hope it's worth the effort.
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 17:58:22 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:43:13 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> I checked preferences and it is set to 72 characters, hmm. OK, let's talk about top-posting also. You wrote something, then Graham answered, then I added something, and then you put your response to all of that _before_ the rest of the conversation. Screws up the flow of the discussion to suddenly start going upside-down about it.
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 18:16:44 [ permanent link ]
	Dave, Okay, that is a good think to look out for when posting. On 29 Apr 2005 13:58:22 GMT Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:43:13 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> > I checked preferences and it is set to 72 characters, hmm.> OK, let's talk about top-posting also. You wrote something, then Graham> answered, then I added something, and then you put your response to all of> that _before_ the rest of the conversation. Screws up the flow of the> discussion to suddenly start going upside-down about it.>
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 18:41:56 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:16:44 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> Dave,> Okay, that is a good think to look out for when posting. <plonk>
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 18:58:31 [ permanent link ]
	Dave, I'm not familiar with "plonk" On 29 Apr 2005 14:41:56 GMT Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:16:44 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Dave,> > Okay, that is a good think to look out for when posting.> <plonk>>
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Johannes 29 April 2005 19:31:42 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> Dave,> I'm not familiar with "plonk" Why do you keep top posting?
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James Sweet 29 April 2005 19:59:07 [ permanent link ]
	"Johannes" <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote in message news:4272536F.210610D9@spamblock46437sizefitter.com...> Saab Guy wrote:> > Dave,> > I'm not familiar with "plonk"> Why do you keep top posting? He probably doesn't know what it is, give the guy a break. I try not to top post but I don't understand why some people get their panties in a bunch about it, it's just not that hard for me to figure out the flow of the conversation and read it either way, is it really that much effort to others? If so maybe just don't read those posts?
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 20:05:38 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:31:42 GMT, Johannes <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote:> Saab Guy wrote:>> Dave,>> I'm not familiar with "plonk"> Why do you keep top posting? Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group.
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 20:09:05 [ permanent link ]
	Jonannes, I'm not trying to intentionally, I'm just replying to your post here. SaabGuy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:31:42 GMT Johannes <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> > Dave,> > I'm not familiar with "plonk"> Why do you keep top posting?
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 20:09:37 [ permanent link ]
	Dave, Kill? Let's not get out of hand here, I'm just replying to a usenet thread. Sheesh. On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:31:42 GMT, Johannes <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote:> > Saab Guy wrote:> >> Dave,> >> I'm not familiar with "plonk"> > Why do you keep top posting?> Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop> doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile> has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group.>
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Johannes 29 April 2005 20:28:44 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> Jonannes,> I'm not trying to intentionally, I'm just replying to your post here.> SaabGuy It could be the way your email reader is set up?
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 20:34:56 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:31:42 GMT, Johannes > <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote:>> Saab Guy wrote:>>> Dave,>>> I'm not familiar with "plonk">> Why do you keep top posting?> Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop> doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile> has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group. Good to read you again brother Dave - long time to chat. Very respectfully your call of course, but I'm less uptight about how the post is crafted if, at least, is has something to say. Hell - nobody wants people bottom posting to my bizarro 1,000 word diatribes. .. .. For whatever it is worth - if my response is substaincially longer than the orginal post (which I suppose we can all take as pretty much a given with apols) I bottom it. If it's a quicky to a longer post, I often top post because it is a pain to scroll through a long post to read a sentence or two. If it's a close split - I default to bottom post to meet the agreed spec. Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and was thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned first? -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 20:40:55 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J, Are you planning on selling old Saab books and magazines on Ebay? Saab Guy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:34:56 GMT "Dexter J" <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote: Salutations:> On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:31:42 GMT, Johannes > > <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote:> >> Saab Guy wrote:> >>> Dave,> >>> I'm not familiar with "plonk"> >> Why do you keep top posting?> > Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop> > doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile> > has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group.> Good to read you again brother Dave - long time to chat. Very respectfully > your call of course, but I'm less uptight about how the post is crafted > if, at least, is has something to say. Hell - nobody wants people bottom > posting to my bizarro 1,000 word diatribes.> .. ..> For whatever it is worth - if my response is substaincially longer than > the orginal post (which I suppose we can all take as pretty much a given > with apols) I bottom it. If it's a quicky to a longer post, I often top > post because it is a pain to scroll through a long post to read a sentence > or two.> If it's a close split - I default to bottom post to meet the agreed spec.> Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model > lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and was > thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned > first?> --> Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day> Big Sugar - All Over Now> http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Dave Hinz 29 April 2005 20:57:06 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:34:56 GMT, Dexter J <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:> Salutations:> On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop>> doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile>> has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group. Good to read you again brother Dave - long time to chat. Very respectfully > your call of course, but I'm less uptight about how the post is crafted > if, at least, is has something to say. Hell - nobody wants people bottom > posting to my bizarro 1,000 word diatribes. Well, that's about snipping though, rather than about turning a conversation upside-down. Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model > lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and was > thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned > first? Clymer? Can you describe the cover? I think I might have it. Dave
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 21:12:31 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J, Are there any photos in this Saab material that show old Saab buildings? I'm trying to keep a collection of these buildings. Over the past weekend, I managed to take the remaining photos of what is left of Saab buildings in Connecticut now that Saab is no longer even in Connecticut! http://mysite.verizon.net/archsweden/saab/connecticut.html I wonder what old Saab buildings (dealerships aside) there were/are in the U.K.? Or is it all just GM there too? I'd like to see if there are any old buildings in the U.K. or elsewhere that have remnants of Saab before the GM intervene. SaabGuy On 29 Apr 2005 16:57:06 GMT Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:34:56 GMT, Dexter J <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:> > Salutations:> > On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> Well, it's not because he hasn't been told by several people to stop> >> doing it, so I'm going with "waste of time" here. Ah well...the killfile> >> has plenty of entries, but very very few from this group.> Good to read you again brother Dave - long time to chat. Very respectfully > > your call of course, but I'm less uptight about how the post is crafted > > if, at least, is has something to say. Hell - nobody wants people bottom > > posting to my bizarro 1,000 word diatribes.> Well, that's about snipping though, rather than about turning a> conversation upside-down.> Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model > > lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and was > > thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned > > first?> Clymer? Can you describe the cover? I think I might have it.> Dave>
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 21:37:34 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:40:55 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote: Dexter J,> Are you planning on selling old Saab books and magazines on Ebay?> Saab Guy> No - not as any sort of going concern at this juncture at least. Actually, I am now working on a Flash based manual project for my GMC motor home which might prove useful though. I have a OEM factory repair manual that has been converted to PDF and I'm building a standalone for it. I have been thinking that it might be useful to move a factory SAAB manual to the same front end if I could ever get together the scratch to buy a set. Man, they are expensive and rare as hens teeth. Anyway - what is going on here is that I am trying to clean out the basement and I keep coming across crap of interest. Someone was hunting for technical material a while ago and thought it might be brother Dave. Dave's a good egg - he keeps the group aggressively swept for knobs and scammers on our behalf - doing his part to make alt.autos.saab a most welcome escape for most of the rest of us here. Not that everyone always agrees, but still, I appreciate the effort greatly. In fact this one of the very few newsgroups that I still subscribe to now that the screw-heads have regrettably discovered the technology to it's greater potential. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 21:41:24 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J, That's great that your brother is working for us. SaabGuy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:37:34 GMT "Dexter J" <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote: Salutations:> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:40:55 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> Dexter J,> > Are you planning on selling old Saab books and magazines on Ebay?> > Saab Guy> > No - not as any sort of going concern at this juncture at least.> Actually, I am now working on a Flash based manual project for my GMC > motor home which might prove useful though. I have a OEM factory repair > manual that has been converted to PDF and I'm building a standalone for it.> I have been thinking that it might be useful to move a factory SAAB manual > to the same front end if I could ever get together the scratch to buy a > set. Man, they are expensive and rare as hens teeth.> Anyway - what is going on here is that I am trying to clean out the > basement and I keep coming across crap of interest. Someone was hunting > for technical material a while ago and thought it might be brother Dave.> Dave's a good egg - he keeps the group aggressively swept for knobs and > scammers on our behalf - doing his part to make alt.autos.saab a most > welcome escape for most of the rest of us here. Not that everyone always > agrees, but still, I appreciate the effort greatly.> In fact this one of the very few newsgroups that I still subscribe to now > that the screw-heads have regrettably discovered the technology to it's > greater potential.> --> Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day> Big Sugar - All Over Now> http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 22:05:47 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On 29 Apr 2005 16:57:06 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:34:56 GMT, Dexter J > <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:>> Salutations:>> On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model>> lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and >> was>> thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned>> first? Clymer? Can you describe the cover? I think I might have it.> Dave The cover is a little faded (anti-freeze spill at some point if I remember correctly) - but it sports what appears to be a four door 99 on the cover. ISBN 0-892870-121-0, it's the second (corrected) issue from the Oct 1977 run edited by mighty Mister Jeff Robinson. Covers all three model lines with some detail on the 2.0, 1.7 and 1.85 engine variances - the V4 is noted. It has the mechanical and first generation electric fuel pump and those ever hoopy Sonnet brake hoses covered as well. Not as thick as I like, but certainly has some detail of value. No pictures of SAAB facilities I'm afraid brother SAAB guy - but lots of shots of Ray Hoy's hands in awkward places with his flipping wrist watch on. He really should have done a Timex blip-vert at some point. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 22:09:54 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J, Nice. Thanks for that information. WHo is Ray Hoy? Can you upload a few scans so we can see? Saab Guy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:05:47 GMT "Dexter J" <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote: Salutations:> On 29 Apr 2005 16:57:06 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:34:56 GMT, Dexter J > > <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:> >> Salutations:> >> On 29 Apr 2005 16:05:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:> > Cheers - hey - was it you looking for manuals for '67 through '76 model> >> lines? I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99 and Sonnet and > >> was> >> thinking about flogging it on e-bay. Anything specific you want scanned> >> first?> Clymer? Can you describe the cover? I think I might have it.> > Dave> The cover is a little faded (anti-freeze spill at some point if I remember > correctly) - but it sports what appears to be a four door 99 on the cover.> ISBN 0-892870-121-0, it's the second (corrected) issue from the Oct 1977 > run edited by mighty Mister Jeff Robinson.> Covers all three model lines with some detail on the 2.0, 1.7 and 1.85 > engine variances - the V4 is noted. It has the mechanical and first > generation electric fuel pump and those ever hoopy Sonnet brake hoses > covered as well. Not as thick as I like, but certainly has some detail of > value.> No pictures of SAAB facilities I'm afraid brother SAAB guy - but lots of > shots of Ray Hoy's hands in awkward places with his flipping wrist watch > on. He really should have done a Timex blip-vert at some point.> --> Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day> Big Sugar - All Over Now> http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 23:01:50 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:09:54 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote: Dexter J,> Nice. Thanks for that information. WHo is Ray Hoy?> Can you upload a few scans so we can see?> Saab Guy> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:05:47 GMT> "Dexter J" <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:>> No pictures of SAAB facilities I'm afraid brother SAAB guy - but lots of>> shots of Ray Hoy's hands in awkward places with his flipping wrist watch>> on. He really should have done a Timex blip-vert at some point. I think Ray Hoy is one of the great unsong hero's out there. Here is an interesting google for you: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22Ray+Hoy%22+clymer&btnG=Search&meta= He seemed to be a sort of staff technical writer for the publication for several decades on anything that wasn't a general issue North American or Leyland car. Although I could easily be wrong on the depth of his work. Did at least one other motorcycle manual I have owned. However - I know I read somewhere I can't find right now that one of the things Ray Hoy was famous for was to make sure he was posed for what books he did write. So - all those hands and arms you see in the practical procedural illustrations in his books are in fact Ray Hoy. Given the extensive assistance and practical guidance that Ray Hoy provided so many of us enthusiasts trying to keep our utility classics on the road - I feel it is sort of important to make some note of the contribution to the culture. It appears that he may have retired or even regrettably passed away. It has also been that Ray Hoy never really existed at all - and was instead a stock 'nom de plume' used to cover the tracks of wayward engineers picking up a few extra bux on the side. But, given that the wrist watch seemed to remain intact and in place in so many different publications with his name on the cover page over the years - I suspect he was in fact a real and much under-recognized writer. Man - would that every be a gig I would kill for.. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Dexter J 29 April 2005 23:08:00 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:01:50 GMT, Dexter J <lamealameadingdong@lamelamelame.org> wrote:> Salutations:> Man - would that every be a gig I would kill for.. Of course - that would involve proof reading my work a little more carefully I suppose. .. .. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 23:36:31 [ permanent link ]
	Dave Hinz wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:43:13 GMT, Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:> > I checked preferences and it is set to 72 characters, hmm.> OK, let's talk about top-posting also. You wrote something, then Graham> answered, then I added something, and then you put your response to all of> that _before_ the rest of the conversation. Screws up the flow of the> discussion to suddenly start going upside-down about it. Quite. I was wondering about how best to explain the importance of preserving the flow of though in the thread and realised that there's a certain similarity to the script for a play. You wouldn't want to read one of those in reverse or random order ! Graham
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Pooh Bear 29 April 2005 23:37:42 [ permanent link ]
	Johannes wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> > Jonannes,> > I'm not trying to intentionally, I'm just replying to your post here.> > SaabGuy> It could be the way your email reader is set up? I suspect it's the way his brain, or whatever substitutes for it, is set up actually. Graham
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Saab Guy 29 April 2005 23:38:35 [ permanent link ]
	Boy, harsh. Just an e-mail config thing or something and someone rips my head off. Oh well. Ce la vie! On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:37:42 +0100 Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote: Johannes wrote:> Saab Guy wrote:> > > Jonannes,> > > I'm not trying to intentionally, I'm just replying to your post here.> > > SaabGuy> > It could be the way your email reader is set up?> I suspect it's the way his brain, or whatever substitutes for it, is set> up actually.> Graham>
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Th 30 April 2005 00:08:21 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> MA_TWAIN,> I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tommy Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really. > I wish A) the European Union didn't force Scania to separate from Saab or vice versa or potentially B) Ford buying Saab as well may have been a good idea opposed to GM as Saab has worked with Ford in the past (ie. Remember the Saab model 96 with the Ford V4 engine)?> The European Union never forced Scania to separate from Saab, that separation was done long before Sweden entered the European Union. The European Union opposed Scania from merging with Volvo trucks because the market share locally in Sweden would become too high, thus preventing the formation of the most powerful and competitive company on the truck market. -- th
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Th 30 April 2005 00:15:45 [ permanent link ]
	Dexter J wrote:> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:48:24 -0400, ma_twain <ma_twain@yahoo.com> wrote:> To quote the GM execs "No one cares what is in the car, all they >> want is the Saab name".> Hey brother Twain - long time no hear. I think that about sums up the > problem and perhaps the solution.> SAAB in many ways reflects the current supply side trending towards the > lowest minimum possible acceptable level of quality, endurance and > service in Branded products. Just exactly how much sawdust can you put > in the burger before they yokels catch on I suppose?> I think I heard another CEO at the Nabisco group explaining it as > "harvesting the Brand value to the shareholders".. Which I guess > explains why my Ritz crackers now sux.> Essentially, GM is losing money because they are making bad cars under > good badges right now. "Not meeting expectations at a consumer level" > to sensitize the statement into a more corporately and socially > acceptable non-phrase.> I was saddened to figure out why my 1993 Aero has been springing > erroneous CEL alerts that seemed impossible to diagnose. A simple 5 > cent part - that really deserved to be a 10 cent part considering it's > impact on the greater engineered package. Hello 50% GM ownership at the > time.> What makes the whole situation all the more frustrating is that GM > really have the right answer in the Epsilon initiative, but I don't > think they can get there MBA mortarboards around it. One chassis - > sliding scale for everything from the headlights, to the engine, to > the suspension, to the body and everything inside of it.> Build a wider lower 9000 on it and make it 4 wheel drive a Turbo > Diesel.. You beat the pants off the Magnum on all counts. End game - > roll out the grass and sweep up the stands.> Formalize the wiring harness and relays to a much better > specification and open source the engine management CPU. Didn't they > brain the Mars Rovers with UNIX?> No, the operating system is VxWorks and there has been bugs detected in that OS when on Mars. I wouldn't like to have VxWorks in my car!!! -- th
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Dexter J 30 April 2005 01:05:16 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:15:45 GMT, th <someguy@somewhere.se> wrote: Dexter J wrote:>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:48:24 -0400, ma_twain <ma_twain@yahoo.com> wrote:>> specification and open source the engine management CPU. Didn't they >> brain the Mars Rovers with UNIX?>> No, the operating system is VxWorks and there has been bugs detected in > that OS when on Mars. I wouldn't like to have VxWorks in my car!!! I stand corrected - surely though it has got to be better than the current OBDII system and light years ahead of the ISAT(?) I'm stuck with? I mean Trionic is actually a serious F1 technology - unfortunately completely locked out to us plebs in terms of really understanding exactly what is happening and leaving us very limited ability to work with it. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Sugar - All Over Now http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/140.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Johannes 30 April 2005 01:09:06 [ permanent link ]
	Saab Guy wrote:> Boy, harsh. Just an e-mail config thing or something and someone rips my head off. Oh well. Ce la vie! So why don't you sort it out?
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Saab Guy 30 April 2005 01:38:16 [ permanent link ]
	Johannes, Can you help me? From my end, I don't have any scrolling. If you can help me that would be great. Currently I have it set to 72 pixels wide, but maybe there is more I need to do. SaabGuy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:09:06 GMT Johannes <johs@spamblock46437sizefitter.com> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> > Boy, harsh. Just an e-mail config thing or something and someone rips my head off. Oh well. Ce la vie!> So why don't you sort it out?
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Saab Guy 30 April 2005 01:40:08 [ permanent link ]
	Th, Thanks for the information. I got an e-mail from Scania recently and they said that Scania became independant from Saab Cars in 1995, which is conflicts. Hmm. Saab Guy On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:08:21 GMT th <someguy@somewhere.se> wrote: Saab Guy wrote:> > MA_TWAIN,> > I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tommy Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really. > > I wish A) the European Union didn't force Scania to separate from Saab or vice versa or potentially B) Ford buying Saab as well may have been a good idea opposed to GM as Saab has worked with Ford in the past (ie. Remember the Saab model 96 with the Ford V4 engine)?> > The European Union never forced Scania to separate from Saab, that > separation was done long before Sweden entered the European Union. The > European Union opposed Scania from merging with Volvo trucks because the > market share locally in Sweden would become too high, thus preventing > the formation of the most powerful and competitive company on the truck > market.> -- > th
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Stephen B. 30 April 2005 05:12:32 [ permanent link ]
	"Dexter J" wrote <SNIP>> In fact this one of the very few newsgroups that I still subscribe to now> that the screw-heads have regrettably discovered the technology to it's> greater potential.> screw-heads ???
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Dexter J 30 April 2005 19:01:04 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:12:32 GMT, Stephen B. <myspam@Cloud9.net> wrote: "Dexter J" wrote> <SNIP>>> In fact this one of the very few newsgroups that I still subscribe to >> now>> that the screw-heads have regrettably discovered the technology to it's>> greater potential.> screw-heads ??? Hunter S. Thompson reference to hateraid purveyors. Nothing to do with mechanically inclined. I'd quote some of the extensively crossed posted and sock-puppet replied headers from today's dump file for my local .general group this morning - but they would probably pick up on the subject lines and add alt.autos.saab to the list. It's alarming really - there are apparently a lot of seriously disturbed folks out there with i-net access. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Patio Lanterns - Kim Mitchell http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/081.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Sleeker GT Phwoar 3 May 2005 13:26:06 [ permanent link ]
	In article <20050429172010.1fde2742.nothing@yahoo.com>, nothing@yahoo.com says...> Johannes,> Can you help me? From my end, I don't have any scrolling. If you can help me that would be great. Currently I have it set to 72 pixels wide, but maybe there is more I need to do.> SaabGuy When you type your reply, don't type it at the top of the previous text, type it underneith, as I have done. You will make a lot more friends on usenet if you do that. If your newsreader (Sylpheed in your case, not familiar with it, but looks like it is in the early stages of development) doesn't automaticly do that for usenet posts, do it manually. Just place a carriage return after the old text, and add your part. Try Pan as a unix newsreader too, and keep Sylpheed as a mail client. ISTR that Pan does correctly position the cursor when posting a "Follow up", or "reply to group" rather than an email reply to an individual. Oh, BTW, incase you didn't already know, the Sylpheed documentation project page is here in english. http://sylpheeddoc.sourceforge.net/en/welcome.html and here in other european languages. http://sylpheeddoc.sourceforge.net/ -- "Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf" The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
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Grunff 3 May 2005 19:43:24 [ permanent link ]
	Sleeker GT Phwoar wrote: I take that to mean that they no longer consider Saabs to be a quality > car, just an Astra/Vectra with a Saab badge, some different styling and > interior. But this is fairly accurate - why would they consider things differently? If/when I return to Saab ownership, it will be in a C900 or a 9000, > either a C900 convertable, or a 9000 Aero. I will not buy a newer one. Definitely with you on that one (although I'm not mad keen on how the C900 convertible drives). -- Grunff
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Sleeker GT Phwoar 4 May 2005 16:58:35 [ permanent link ]
	In article <42779bdb$0$2064$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, grunff@ixxa.com says...> > I take that to mean that they no longer consider Saabs to be a quality > > car, just an Astra/Vectra with a Saab badge, some different styling and > > interior.> But this is fairly accurate - why would they consider things differently?> It isn't how accurate it is I'm complaining about, it is what they are openly happy to be smug about doing. Oh the memeber in question isn't an old Jallopy jockey like me, he has a 900, a 9000 and a 9-5 estate (that's how he was contacted intitially because of the annual care survey). You can still build a quality car on a more mundane platform. Look at the 9000 Aero compared to other marques on that platform, only the Alfa 164 V6 came close, but apart from sounding stunning, isn't a patch on the 9000. The 9000 was a Mercedes class car, as was the C900, NG900, C9-3 but 9-5 and the NG 9-3 aren't even up there with Rover I'm afraid (I'm someone who can remember Rover being spoken of in the same sentence as Jaguar, Daimler, Mercedes and look what happened to Rover when the class had gone). -- "Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf" The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
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Mh 7 May 2005 01:13:55 [ permanent link ]
	..I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99> and Sonnet and was .... Sonnet, you said SONNET ! -- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '91 900i 16 http://go.to/saab96
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Dexter J 7 May 2005 21:42:31 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations" On Fri, 6 May 2005 23:13:55 +0200, MH <nomail@nowhere.no> wrote: ..I finally found my old Clymer for C95, C96, C99>> and Sonnet and was ....> Sonnet, you said SONNET !> --> MH> '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96> '91 900i 16> http://go.to/saab96 Hey MH - yes, yes I did. The infomation on the Sonnet is inclusive with the older models noted. I think it's actually pretty practical in that regard because, given owner mods over time, there is likely to be a fair bit of cross-over from different parts bins on most any Sonnet on the road today. But, it does directly addresses Sonnet systems that are different from the other models in the manual as you go along. Is there anything you need from it before it goes to e-busted? -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Bluegrass Boys - Rolling My Sweet Baby's Arms http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/157.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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Mh 7 May 2005 21:44:19 [ permanent link ]
	The infomation on the Sonnet ... You missed my point, it's Sonett - S O N E T T see http://members.home.nl/ghilvers/sonett/PIC00003.jpg Is there anything you need> from it before it goes to e-busted? I'll take it anyway... (unless you will be calling a 9-5 a 95 next...) -- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '91 900i 16 http://go.to/saab96
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Dexter J 7 May 2005 23:42:10 [ permanent link ]
	Salutations: On Sat, 7 May 2005 19:44:19 +0200, MH <nomail@nowhere.no> wrote:>> The infomation on the Sonnet ...> You missed my point, it's Sonett - S O N E T T WHOOOPS!.. Man, is my face red.. see http://members.home.nl/ghilvers/sonett/PIC00003.jpg I have a Kawazaki Z1R in the basement that looks sort of like that. .. ... Is there anything you need>> from it before it goes to e-busted?> I'll take it anyway...> Flag me through my site below. Maybe we can trade something spare in our inventories. I don't have a 9000 Haynes manual and could really use one. (unless you will be calling a 9-5 a 95 next...) I'm better with model numbers. I wonder if that is why Sonett keeps messing me up? --> MH> '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96> '91 900i 16> http://go.to/saab96 -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Bluegrass Boys - Rolling My Sweet Baby's Arms http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/157.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
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CarGuru > Saab > Why is this newsgroup all technical troubleshooting? 7 May 2005 23:42:10

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