Re: There should be more women in racing!

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CarGuru > Nascar > Re: There should be more women in racing! 5 June 2006 18:34:24

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Re: There should be more women in racing!
FourDirections 16 March 2005 02:43:44
	r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote: the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> miles under the harshest conditions? Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ?
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R E D N A L O 16 March 2005 06:08:45 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:43:44 CST, FourDirections <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote: r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> miles under the harshest conditions?> Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ? Hey, I don't know you, but if you are going to comment on one of my "OLD" posts, how about putting up the entire post to keep it in context so everyone can get a sense of what I was really saying? Here is my entire post: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On 17 May 2004 21:45:04 GMT, melissaorsini77@yahoo.com (Melissa) wrote: I feel that nascar should have some women racing!!!!! i think that>Nascar is kind of sexcist!!! I would love to see a woman get out there and really mix it up with the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600 miles under the harshest conditions? How many sponsors do you know of that would be willing to back a woman in a car for a season? I'm not really sure what it would take to get more women involved in auto racing - you just don't see them flocking to the sport. I was involved, at staff level, at our local dirt track and we activly encouraged women to get behind the wheel, but there were few that would, and we cheered on the ones that did. I don't think there would be a lack of support from the fans. Let's hear from the women that hang out here - what do you think the problems facing women who want to compete in NASCAR, and what do you think the solutions are? Inquiring minds want to know... DR ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DR --- Go 24-48 --------------------------- Proud Father of a US Marine --Semper Fi--
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Crusader 17 March 2005 02:35:10 [ permanent link ]
	"FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> > miles under the harshest conditions?> Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ?> Did Ernest Hemingway miss one of the Sports vs Games? Mountain climbing, Bull fighting, & Auto racing were Sport, all other endeavors were Games. Where does female child-birthing labour fit? CRU-who also believes wimmin aren't built for 500 miles during a Cup race, but they sure can endure a lot of pain in life.
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A Miller 17 March 2005 07:02:58 [ permanent link ]
	he he he I am a female poster..... I like your idea. I drove in the Richard Petty Driving Experience. The day I did, I went faster than anyone there.... including the females. The top average they let me go was 137. I wanted to go faster, but I would have ran over the man that had to stay in front of me. Unfortunately the women so far have not performed as well as the men. "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> miles under the harshest conditions?> Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor > ?>
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Raceguy 17 March 2005 07:13:01 [ permanent link ]
	Hey CRU ... I've seen women "built" for 500/600 miles, but they keep havin' the ladies tell them to "get outta the ladies room you ugly, hairy bas**rd!". Do not! sell women racers short. When it comes to "stature", there are loads of "ladies of the lead-foot" who are larger in stature and more muscular than John Andretti. More and more, the critical element in a driver's development is the ability of that person to communicate with the team, in the most effective manner, his (or her) tuning needs in order to turn the most "efficient" laps. (That's fuel consumption, tire wear, driver comfort, vehicle handling characteristics, time lost during passing, la, la-la, la-la-laaaaaa) Did I mention tire wear and fuel use? Entry level sports that I'm involved in - (motocross, karts, four-cylinder stocks, snowmobiles) are breeding a whole new level of "Powder-Puff" - or should that be "Power-Puff" racer? Once some of these "race-smart" young "ladies" start applying what they know and getting the breaks they deserve, don't be surprised if some young hotshoe you know comes home with a second place trophy and a bad taste in his mouth. It would serve him right for misjudging the tenacity and abilty of his female counterpart. I've seen it first-hand. They're moments that should make all parents (especially men) proud of their daughters. LATER! RACEGUY "Crusader" <cru32@comcast.net> wrote in message news:39rqkbF6470f8U1@individual.net...> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> > > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> > > miles under the harshest conditions?> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ?> > Did Ernest Hemingway miss one of the Sports vs Games?> Mountain climbing, Bull fighting, & Auto racing were Sport,> all other endeavors were Games.> Where does female child-birthing labour fit?> CRU-who also believes wimmin aren't built for 500 miles during a Cup race,> but they sure can endure a lot of pain in life.>
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Scott Stevenson 17 March 2005 22:20:29 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:26:54 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: "A Miller" <wynd0ze@verizon.net> wrote in message>news:Ck6_d.7089$mq2.4047@trnddc08...>> he he he I am a female poster..... I like your idea.>> I drove in the Richard Petty Driving Experience. The day I did, I went>> faster than anyone there.... including the females. The top average they>> let me go was 137. I wanted to go faster, but I would have ran over the>man>> that had to stay in front of me.>> Unfortunately the women so far have not performed as well as the men.> In practice there is little that men have done that some woman somewhere>hasn't shown herself to be capable of. We're talking here about assuming>the controls of a machine for 3 hours... to believe categorically that there>is no woman capable of doing it as well as the men do, is laughably>shortsighted. In fact, Janet Guthrie proved 25 years ago that it could be done. Of course, the reason we don't see more women drivers at the NNC or Busch level can be found at any short track on Saturday night. As long as 95% of the folks strapping on helmets are men, there aren't going to be many women racing on TV on the weekends. take care, Scott
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-V- 18 March 2005 00:44:36 [ permanent link ]
	"FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> > miles under the harshest conditions?> Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ?> If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could. -- -v- solamente ocho !
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Chuck Steak 18 March 2005 04:06:39 [ permanent link ]
	In article <Ztf_d.94308$vO1.586224@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: If they can run the ironman for 10 or 12 hours they can handle driving a>race car for 4.> -Russ. Do they routinely beat the men? How would the WNBA fair against the NBA? What about Ali's daughter against a good club fighter? How about the old Silver Bullets against the Yankees? The question is not whether they can "do" the sport. The question is, can you compete with the men, at the highest level... Plenty of women will finish the Boston Marathon in a few weeks, but will they be close to the men? Not even... Women are driving race cars all across the country. And some do pretty well. But we aren't talking about Podunk Raceway, in Mudville. The question is, can they compete in Nextel Cup. The answer, right now, is no. It's not a dig. It's not an insult. It's just the way it is. Will one someday?? Who knows. Right now? No. Dan ---------------------------------------------- I got a new toolbox for my wife. Best trade I ever made.
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Martin X. Moleski 18 March 2005 07:26:30 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:20:22 CST, r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote: ... Like I said, it's just not>going to happen... This is one of them lifetime RPGs. I've got several on the record already. We're gonna have to score you after your race is run. :o) Marty
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Somebody 18 March 2005 08:26:25 [ permanent link ]
	"-v-" <vxmNOvxSPA-3M*@altara.invalid> wrote in message news:VYl_d.123033$pc5.56946@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> > > miles under the harshest conditions?> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor> ?> > If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could.> -- > -v-> solamente ocho ! And so, some have. If I have the desire and I'm good, that doesn't mean I'm going to make it to Cup level. There are thousands of broken dreams of talented drivers along that trail. So too, for women. The time will come. -Russ.
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Somebody 18 March 2005 08:31:27 [ permanent link ]
	"-v-" <vxmNOvxSPA-3M*@altara.invalid> wrote in message news:VYl_d.123033$pc5.56946@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> > > miles under the harshest conditions?> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor> ?> > If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could.> -- > -v-> solamente ocho ! BTW, shall we apply the same argument to blacks? None have won at cup level, so they must be physically incapable, right? If they were any good at racicng and had the desire to race, they could. -Russ.
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R E D N A L O 18 March 2005 08:52:07 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:28:11 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: "Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak@nospam.com> wrote in message>news:co-dnXkH1o9Dh6ffRVn-rw@rcn.net...>> In article <Ztf_d.94308$vO1.586224@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,>> "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:>> If they can run the ironman for 10 or 12 hours they can handle driving a>> >race car for 4.>> > -Russ.>> Do they routinely beat the men?>> How would the WNBA fair against the NBA?>> What about Ali's daughter against a good club fighter?>> How about the old Silver Bullets against the Yankees?>> The question is not whether they can "do" the sport.>> The question is, can you compete with the men, at the>> highest level...>> Plenty of women will finish the Boston Marathon in a few weeks,>> but will they be close to the men? Not even...>> Women are driving race cars all across the country.>> And some do pretty well.>> But we aren't talking about Podunk Raceway, in Mudville.>> The question is, can they compete in Nextel Cup.>> The answer, right now, is no.>> It's not a dig. It's not an insult.>> It's just the way it is.>> Will one someday??>> Who knows.>> Right now? No.>> Do you really think it's a physical limitation that keeps them out of a Cup>seat? If Jimmy Spencer can make it, or a 60 year old retiree, a fit woman>can do just fine. The right one just hasn't come along. It's not that>women can't do it. My point is if they can run flat out for 10 hours in an>ironman they can handle 3 hours sitting in a race car.> -Russ. Russ, I really don't think you're getting it: it's not that they can't do it given enough time. The question is, can they do it and be competitive against the men? DR
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R E D N A L O 18 March 2005 08:58:04 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:31:27 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: "-v-" <vxmNOvxSPA-3M*@altara.invalid> wrote in message>news:VYl_d.123033$pc5.56946@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...>> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:>> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> > > miles under the harshest conditions?>> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of>labor>> ?>> > If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could.>> -- >> -v->> solamente ocho !> BTW, shall we apply the same argument to blacks? None have won at cup>level, so they must be physically incapable, right? If they were any good>at racicng and had the desire to race, they could.> -Russ. So, would that be black women you are talking about, or black men? The argument is the same if you are talking about women. We (or is it just me) are talking about men vs women (I thought), not black vs white... DR
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R E D N A L O 18 March 2005 08:58:54 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:26:25 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: "-v-" <vxmNOvxSPA-3M*@altara.invalid> wrote in message>news:VYl_d.123033$pc5.56946@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...>> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:>> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> > > miles under the harshest conditions?>> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of>labor>> ?>> > If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could.>> -- >> -v->> solamente ocho !> And so, some have.> If I have the desire and I'm good, that doesn't mean I'm going to make it to>Cup level. There are thousands of broken dreams of talented drivers along>that trail. So too, for women.> The time will come.> -Russ. You're dreaming... DR
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R E D N A L O 18 March 2005 09:06:19 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:26:30 CST, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:20:22 CST, r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> ... Like I said, it's just not>>going to happen...> This is one of them lifetime RPGs. I've got several on the record>already. We're gonna have to score you after your race is run. :o)> Marty ..if it (my race) ever happens, which I doubt. DR
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Scott Stevenson 18 March 2005 11:38:24 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:31:27 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: "-v-" <vxmNOvxSPA-3M*@altara.invalid> wrote in message>news:VYl_d.123033$pc5.56946@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...>> "FourDirections" <dream1313@hotmail.com> wrote in message>> news:RfBZd.4202$qN3.2995@trndny01...>> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:>> > the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> > > do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> > > be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> > > driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> > > miles under the harshest conditions?>> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of>labor>> ?>> > If women were any good at racing and had the desire to race they could.>> -- >> -v->> solamente ocho !> BTW, shall we apply the same argument to blacks? None have won at cup>level, so they must be physically incapable, right? If they were any good>at racicng and had the desire to race, they could. Wendell Scott won at least one race. He also finished in the top 10 in points in 1966. take care, Scott I'm just sayin'...
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Somebody 18 March 2005 18:40:58 [ permanent link ]
	<r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:hgnk315husl941ujn7tqqucgv6o7dqf976@4ax.com...> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:28:11 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:> "Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak@nospam.com> wrote in message> >news:co-dnXkH1o9Dh6ffRVn-rw@rcn.net...> >> In article <Ztf_d.94308$vO1.586224@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,> >> "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:> >> If they can run the ironman for 10 or 12 hours they can handle driving race car for 4.> >> > -Russ.> >> Do they routinely beat the men?> >> How would the WNBA fair against the NBA?> >> What about Ali's daughter against a good club fighter?> >> How about the old Silver Bullets against the Yankees?> >> The question is not whether they can "do" the sport.> >> The question is, can you compete with the men, at the> >> highest level...> >> Plenty of women will finish the Boston Marathon in a few weeks,> >> but will they be close to the men? Not even...> >> Women are driving race cars all across the country.> >> And some do pretty well.> >> But we aren't talking about Podunk Raceway, in Mudville.> >> The question is, can they compete in Nextel Cup.> >> The answer, right now, is no.> >> It's not a dig. It's not an insult.> >> It's just the way it is.> >> Will one someday??> >> Who knows.> >> Right now? No.> >> Do you really think it's a physical limitation that keeps them out of a seat? If Jimmy Spencer can make it, or a 60 year old retiree, a fit woman> >can do just fine. The right one just hasn't come along. It's not that> >women can't do it. My point is if they can run flat out for 10 hours in ironman they can handle 3 hours sitting in a race car.> > -Russ.> Russ, I really don't think you're getting it: it's not that they can't do given enough time. The question is, can they do it and be competitive> against the men?> DR Well it's one of those lifetime RPG's, who can say for sure. But some people are advancing the idea that women aren't physically capable of driving a car for 3 or 4 hours under Cup conditions. Which, given the incredible physical achievements that women do all over the place in all sorts of sports that are way more physically demanding than driving a cup car, seems like a weak argument to me. To me it's really the same as the black driver problem. The grassroots is overflowing with white males, white males are pushed/supported into the sport at an early age, white males make up the bulk of the good drivers in junior series, white males get the opportunities to move up. I don't believe that there is any intrinsic reason that a suitably talented black man, a white woman, a black woman, or a physically fit able-bodied representative from any group in the world can't make it and compete, given the same opportunity. White men are culled from a field of probably hundreds of thousands to find the best drivers, groomed for decades before they reach that level. There just aren't that many other groups feeding into the system to survive all the cuts, never mind the hostitlity towards such groups that is currently built into the system. Finding that one individual that can break in after taking an interest at 16 years old is possible, but so, so rare. Somewhere, sometime, the right woman/black/whatever person will make it into the pool at a low enough point to get enough of the right kind of experience to eventually break into the Cup world with suffiicient skills to make a real go of it. -Russ.
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Guest 18 March 2005 18:52:32 [ permanent link ]
	r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote: I would love to see a woman get out there and really mix it up with> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? I dunno? hw many female drivers are a hazard to other drivers on the highway? (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSFAnn/2003HTMLTSF/tbl5.htm) Is there a woman driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run> 500/600 miles under the harshest conditions? yu mean there isn't one female driver who isn't as fit as Jimmy Spencer? How many sponsors do you know of that would be willing to back a woman in a car> for a season? on the current playing field: none. on a level playing field: probably more than one. I'm not really sure what it would take to get more women involved in> auto racing - you just don't see them flocking to the sport. I was> involved, at staff level, at our local dirt track and we activly> encouraged women to get behind the wheel, but there were few> that would, and we cheered on the ones that did. I don't think there> would be a lack of support from the fans. I agree--my race friends support all the female Busch and CTS drivers. Let's hear from the women that hang out here - what do you think> the problems facing women who want to compete in NASCAR,> and what do you think the solutions are? Inquiring minds want to> know... the problem, and the solution, boils down to access. access to good teams with good cars, access to good simulation training, access to all of the steps which steep good drivers--early training in various kinds of racing, good coaching, good equipment. of course a female driver dropped into Cup racing with substandard equipment isn't going to be able to compete head-to-head with Kurt Busch or Jeff Gordon. even the male drivers with substandard equipment aren't able to compete with them. but find a woman with natural talent, get her started in various kinds of racing at an early age, give her top notch coaching, equipment, and sponsorship, and there's no logical, physical, technical, or psychological reason she won't go far. Katharine
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Guest 18 March 2005 19:05:02 [ permanent link ]
	r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:26:54 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:> "A Miller" <wynd0ze@verizon.net> wrote in message> >news:Ck6_d.7089$mq2.4047@trnddc08...> >> he he he I am a female poster..... I like your idea.> >> I drove in the Richard Petty Driving Experience. The day I did, I went> >> faster than anyone there.... including the females. The top average they> >> let me go was 137. I wanted to go faster, but I would have ran over the> >man> >> that had to stay in front of me.> >> Unfortunately the women so far have not performed as well as the men.> > In practice there is little that men have done that some woman somewhere> >hasn't shown herself to be capable of. We're talking here about assuming> >the controls of a machine for 3 hours... to believe categorically that there> >is no woman capable of doing it as well as the men do, is laughably> >shortsighted. It may take a long time (maybe forever) for the right woman> >to make it to the top of the sport and get a legitimate shot at it, but it's> >not because people with no Y chromosome are somehow incapable of driving a> >car at a certain level for 3 hours.> > Besides women in general have a lower center of gravity and lower weight,> >their bodies would be a small advantage in setting up a race car.> >Especially compared to some of the larger men on the track. So far NASCAR> >only compensates for overall driver weight in a gross fashion, small drivers> >already have an advantage in terms of distribution vs large or tall drivers.> > -Russ.> So bring 'em on Russ...> I'd love to see some testy women take on the boys in Cup and take them> to school...> ..but, it's just not going to happen.> At this point, the discrimination argument will probably pop up: Well, they just> haven't been given all the breaks the men have - racing is sexist! you're creating a straw man--no one has said in this discussion that NASCAR is sexist. people have said that women haven't had the access that men have had. that's reality. How many sports do you know of where men and women compete head-to-head? what has this got to do with the topic under discussion? auto racing isn't the same as football or track and field or swimming. I don't know of any sport where a woman has come out and whipped the> boys, hands down; which has got to do with women driving in the Cup series how, exactly? more straw men. and the "given enough time" argument is just baloney. why? what substantive evidence do you have that with all of the advantages of a top male driver a female driver can't be competitive? evidence, not opinion. Why don't we just put some women in the lab and pump them up with> steroids and testosterone - what would that prove? ??? what has this got to do with the skills needed for auto racing? there was at time when it was thought women couldn't be astronauts. or fighter pilots. or stuntm...erm, stuntmen. but clearly many of them have the skills. auto racing isn't merely about brute strength--otherwise weightlifters would be Cup champions. endurance is more than merely physical. certainly reflexes count a lot on the track. so does intelligence, where women are definitely in the running, if not the lead.* and so does intuition because part of being a great athlete, especially in a setting like auto racing, is being able to anticipate the unexpected--and of course women hold a definite advantage there.* Like I said, it's just not going to happen... post hoc ergo propter hoc. Katharine *well, if he can use stereotypes against women, I guess I can use the ones which support women.
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Michael McGaha 18 March 2005 19:45:19 [ permanent link ]
	There are plenty of women in racing... they ase out the trophie, checks, etc... Michael JUST KIDDING! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 11/19/2004
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WildWeasel 18 March 2005 20:23:07 [ permanent link ]
	<malonekath> wrote ...> you're creating a straw man--no one has said in this discussion that> NASCAR is sexist. people have said that women haven't had the access> that men have had. that's reality.> When Jeff Gordon was 8 and starting to drive go carts nascar was sexist. Boys won and girls kissed the winner. Now, and for the last maybe 10 years, I don't think nascar is (as) sexist AND society at large is now (and for the last maybe 10 yrs) ready to support 8 year old girls as they start to develop their racing skills. So, that means that 10 years ago an 8 year old girl started racing with the full support of mom and dad that JG got at 8. She's now 18. KyB is 19 (and still somewhat of an odd prodigy, perhaps). So, we should now start seeing young women move into the upper ranks and perform well, and we are, in fact. The only problem for TODAY is that 10 years ago that 8 year old was 1 girl in 1000 boys at the track. The numbers to distill a female JG, KyB, ... aren't there yet, but I'll bet that's changing at the grass roots and will eventually work it's way through the system. And I believe it is a phenomena that you can not rush and you can not stop. -- WW, PhD, Sociologist-at-Large
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WildWeasel 18 March 2005 20:24:45 [ permanent link ]
	"Michael McGaha" wrote ...> There are plenty of women in racing... they ase out the trophie, checks, > etc...> Michael> JUST KIDDING!> and some of them CASH the checks (and spend the $$$). and what he said ... JUST KIDDING!
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Guest 18 March 2005 21:58:22 [ permanent link ]
	Crusader wrote:> Katherine on Line One for u Dan. ahahahaha! actually I don't disagree with Dan about there not being a female driver at the moment who can compete with the men. and I don't think anyone in this discussion has disagreed with that reality. at the moment she doesn't exist. however, I do disagree with the analogies to basketball or boxing. I mean, how many male NASCAR drivers would last long in a ring with "a good club fighter"? or even Ali's daughter, for that matter. poor Kurt Busch would be out even before he took his first breath. yes, men are bigger and stronger than women. I'm fairly tall for a chick at 5'9" but my BF still has 6" and 100lbs on me. but, and I'll say it again, if brute strength were the most significant quality a Cup champion had to have, then the cars would be driven by weight-lifters. as they're not, there must be other qualities at work to make a good Cup driver or a champion. Katharine As per usual, i am on yore side cuz u use facts & logic.> --> Crusader> "Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak@nospam.com> wrote in message> news:co-dnXkH1o9Dh6ffRVn-rw@rcn.net...> > In article <Ztf_d.94308$vO1.586224@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,> > "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:> > If they can run the ironman for 10 or 12 hours they can handle driving a> > >race car for 4.> > >-Russ.> > Do they routinely beat the men?> > How would the WNBA fair against the NBA?> > What about Ali's daughter against a good club fighter?> > How about the old Silver Bullets against the Yankees?> > The question is not whether they can "do" the sport.> > The question is, can you compete with the men, at the> > highest level...> > Plenty of women will finish the Boston Marathon in a few weeks,> > but will they be close to the men? Not even...> > Women are driving race cars all across the country.> > And some do pretty well.> > But we aren't talking about Podunk Raceway, in Mudville.> > The question is, can they compete in Nextel Cup.> > The answer, right now, is no.> > It's not a dig. It's not an insult.> > It's just the way it is.> > Will one someday??> > Who knows.> > Right now? No.> > Dan> > ----------------------------------------------> > I got a new toolbox for my wife.> > Best trade I ever made.
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Chuck Steak 19 March 2005 00:33:07 [ permanent link ]
	In article <423a84c7.363689343@news.giganews.com>, almostfm.AMSPAY@UCKSAY.comcast.net (Scott Stevenson) wrote: Wendell Scott won at least one race. He also finished in the top 10>in points in 1966. Not a real good example... Wendell had ONE lead lap finish in 495 starts. The one race he won.. and there was some scoring controversy.. Dan ---------------------------------------------- I got a new toolbox for my wife. Best trade I ever made.
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Julia 19 March 2005 00:42:38 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-03-15 11:43:44 -0500, FourDirections <dream1313@hotmail.com> said: r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers>> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not>> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman>> driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600>> miles under the harshest conditions?> Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ? yep... I'm gonna let y'all in on a little secret ~ it's not nearly as painful as women make it out to be. I went through hours of it myself, drug free with twins... the labor and the birth pain weren't a problem at all... it's just a guilt trip that your wives / sig. others put you on. -- .."your head can't rule your heart ~ a feeling is so much stronger than a thought"... $1 to Bono (U2) from "Vertigo"
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Galloping.Moron 19 March 2005 17:45:42 [ permanent link ]
	Do you really think it's a physical limitation that keeps them out of a > Cup> seat? If Jimmy Spencer can make it, or a 60 year old retiree, a fit woman> can do just fine. The right one just hasn't come along. It's not that> women can't do it. My point is if they can run flat out for 10 hours in > an> ironman they can handle 3 hours sitting in a race car.> Nobody has said that a woman cannot sit in a race car for three hours. A lot of race fans are of the opinion that a woman cannot race Jeff Gordon for three hours. It is like some drunk saying "I would fight the champ for 10 million dollars". But nobody would pay ten cents to see such an obvious mismatch. There are horses for courses and all of the horses for auto racing courses are colts.
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Crusader 19 March 2005 20:46:22 [ permanent link ]
	"Julia" <julia.dmbangel2004@gmail.com> wrote in message news:2005031815420250073%juliadmbangel2004@gmailcom...> On 2005-03-15 11:43:44 -0500, FourDirections <dream1313@hotmail.com> said:> > r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> >> the men in NASCAR, but let's be realistic: how many women drivers> >> do you know that could go out there and get the job done and not> >> be a hazzard to the other drivers on the track? Is there a woman> >> driver who is physically fit enough to go out there and run 500/600> >> miles under the harshest conditions?> > Is there a man out there physically fit enough to endure 36 hours of labor ?> yep... I'm gonna let y'all in on a little secret ~ it's not nearly as> painful as women make it out to be. I went through hours of it myself,> drug free with twins... the labor and the birth pain weren't a problem> at all... it's just a guilt trip that your wives / sig. others put you> on.> -- > .."your head can't rule your heart ~ a feeling is so much stronger> than a thought"... $1 to Bono (U2) from "Vertigo"> WOW, i'm left wordless with that truth-telling! Or is it a wily woman trick? Did Julia break the ancient Sisterhood oath? Cru
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Wheeler 20 March 2005 01:33:49 [ permanent link ]
	malonekath@aol.com wrote in news:1111168676.055246.70920 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: Crusader wrote:>> Katherine on Line One for u Dan.> ahahahaha!> actually I don't disagree with Dan about there not being a female> driver at the moment who can compete with the men. and I don't think> anyone in this discussion has disagreed with that reality. at the> moment she doesn't exist. Exactly. Seems some people here are stuck in the 1950's... Think of it like this. Thousands upon thousands of drivers are in the lower leagues trying for that shot at Busch or Cup. How many of them are white males? I'd venture to say around 99%. Only a handful will make it. Odds are, those who make it will be, you guessed it, white males. That will only change when young women and minorities are encouraged to race at the local tracks as soon as they can. Of course, they have to overcome the bigotry and sexism that seems to pervade every facet of our society. -- Wheeler
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R E D N A L O 20 March 2005 11:57:30 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:05:02 CST, malonekath@aol.com wrote: r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:26:54 CST, "Somebody"><somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:>> "A Miller" <wynd0ze@verizon.net> wrote in message>> >news:Ck6_d.7089$mq2.4047@trnddc08...>> >> he he he I am a female poster..... I like your idea.>> >> I drove in the Richard Petty Driving Experience. The day I did, I>went>> >> faster than anyone there.... including the females. The top>average they>> >> let me go was 137. I wanted to go faster, but I would have ran>over the>> >man>> >> that had to stay in front of me.>> >> Unfortunately the women so far have not performed as well as the>men.>> > In practice there is little that men have done that some woman>somewhere>> >hasn't shown herself to be capable of. We're talking here about>assuming>> >the controls of a machine for 3 hours... to believe categorically>that there>> >is no woman capable of doing it as well as the men do, is laughably>> >shortsighted. It may take a long time (maybe forever) for the right>woman>> >to make it to the top of the sport and get a legitimate shot at it,>but it's>> >not because people with no Y chromosome are somehow incapable of>driving a>> >car at a certain level for 3 hours.>> > Besides women in general have a lower center of gravity and lower>weight,>> >their bodies would be a small advantage in setting up a race car.>> >Especially compared to some of the larger men on the track. So far>NASCAR>> >only compensates for overall driver weight in a gross fashion, small>drivers>> >already have an advantage in terms of distribution vs large or tall>drivers.>> > -Russ.>> So bring 'em on Russ...>> I'd love to see some testy women take on the boys in Cup and take>them>> to school...>> ..but, it's just not going to happen.>> At this point, the discrimination argument will probably pop up:>Well, they just>> haven't been given all the breaks the men have - racing is sexist!> you're creating a straw man--no one has said in this discussion that>NASCAR is sexist. people have said that women haven't had the access>that men have had. that's reality. You've never heard this argument in any of the racing news groups? I was just precluding it being brought up... How many sports do you know of where men and women compete>head-to-head?> what has this got to do with the topic under discussion? auto racing>isn't the same as football or track and field or swimming. As far as I know the topic of discussion is women competing against men in NASCAR. You don't consider NASCAR a sport" I don't know of any sport where a woman has come out and whipped the>> boys, hands down;> which has got to do with women driving in the Cup series how, exactly?>more straw men. You like the term "straw man/men," why? I thought the theme of this discussion was women and men competing in NASCAR... and the "given enough time" argument is just baloney.> why? what substantive evidence do you have that with all of the>advantages of a top male driver a female driver can't be competitive?>evidence, not opinion. What evidence do you have that a female driver could? Evidence, not opinion... Why don't we just put some women in the lab and pump them up with>> steroids and testosterone - what would that prove?> ??? what has this got to do with the skills needed for auto racing?>there was at time when it was thought women couldn't be astronauts. or>fighter pilots. or stuntm...erm, stuntmen. but clearly many of them>have the skills. What has astronauts, fighter pilots or stuntment got to do with NASCAR? It's been my observation that men are naturally more agressive than women... auto racing isn't merely about brute strength--otherwise weightlifters>would be Cup champions. endurance is more than merely physical.>certainly reflexes count a lot on the track. so does intelligence,>where women are definitely in the running, if not the lead.* and so>does intuition because part of being a great athlete, especially in a>setting like auto racing, is being able to anticipate the>unexpected--and of course women hold a definite advantage there.* Auto racing is about brute agression - women can't compete - they are just not brute agessors like men are... Like I said, it's just not going to happen...> post hoc ergo propter hoc. Semper Fi... Katharine>*well, if he can use stereotypes against women, I guess I can use the>ones which support women. DR --- Go 24-48 --------------------------- Proud Father of a US Marine --Semper Fi--
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Somebody 20 March 2005 16:44:46 [ permanent link ]
	"galloping.moron" <nascar42@cox.net> wrote in message news:u5V_d.6479$uk7.5342@fed1read01...> Nobody has said that a woman cannot sit in a race car for three hours. A> lot of race fans are of the opinion that a woman cannot race Jeff Gordon three hours. Actually, back in the thread someone said that exactly, that women aren't built for racing. That's what the discussion is about. The second bit, I submit is simply a training/exposure issue, and one of the incoming talent pool size. Get enough women starting out as early as JG did, and some talented women will rise up to a similar level. Others here contend that this is literally not possible. That it cannot be done by women for some unquantified reason tied to their biology. -Russ.
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Somebody 20 March 2005 16:50:19 [ permanent link ]
	"Crusader" <cru32@comcast.net> wrote in message news:3a331fF661v0uU1@individual.net...> Let me try it this way--How many wimmin Daredevils are there?> How many Thrill-seekers? How many love livin on 'The Racer's Edge?> How many have the gonads? Somewhere in here, we can find plausible> explanations, eh? I thot Marty had a pretty good one about wimmin's> sensitive ears (paraphased of course ;)> Cru Considering society is now, and most certainly has been in the past, exteremely discouraging for women trying to do those sorts of thing, there are lots. Try watching OLN and Discovery for a while, I've seen them doing some crazy things. Realizing that 40 years ago their "place" was in the home vacuuming with pearls and high heels on, I think that says a lot about what they're really capable of. Heck, Fear Factor is a terrible sample -- most of the women are chosen for looks and cup size. And yet they compete pretty well with the men on challenges that you might assume are male-biased based on athleticicsm, height, balance, etc. -Russ.
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Somebody 20 March 2005 16:51:32 [ permanent link ]
	<r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:ca9q31he85h83ockuohj0cel7n080ipm1e@4ax.com...> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:05:02 CST, malonekath@aol.com wrote:>> Auto racing is about brute agression - women can't compete - they> are just not brute agessors like men are... I think that there are a lot of Cup level drivers that would disagree. I don't think brute agressors have many championships, but they have a lot of DNFs. -Russ.
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Crusader 20 March 2005 20:04:00 [ permanent link ]
	<malonekath@aol.com> wrote in message news:1111277018.233272.12290@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...> Crusader wrote:> > "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in message> > news:ZDV_d.94674$vO1.587141@nnrp1.uunet.ca...> > > <malonekath@aol.com> wrote in message> > > news:1111180718.746709.31570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> > > > again, what exactly are the qualities/attributes which disqualify> women> > > > from competing head-to-head with men on the track?> > > > -Russ.> > > Let me try it this way--How many wimmin Daredevils are there?> > How many Thrill-seekers? How many love livin on 'The Racer's Edge?> > How many have the gonads?> Cru, Cru, Cru. I know you know as well as I do that there are TONS of> women out there with bigger sets than some men have.> Yeah, u know that i know but i just don't want to visualize it--Thanx John. Somewhere in here, we can find plausible> > explanations, eh? I thot Marty had a pretty good one about wimmin's> > sensitive ears (paraphased of course ;)> I agree.> Katharine>
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Julia 21 March 2005 05:24:01 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-03-20 12:19:09 -0500, "Crusader" <cru32@comcast.net> said: See, i told ya u were missing something over here!> Fun, huh? it sure is... thanks for tuning me into the action... ;) -- .."your head can't rule your heart ~ a feeling is so much stronger than a thought"... $1 to Bono (U2) from "Vertigo"
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Julia 21 March 2005 05:27:10 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-03-20 12:19:09 -0500, "Crusader" <cru32@comcast.net> said: See, i told ya u were missing something over here!> Fun, huh?> --> BTW ~ since you got me tuned back into the fun in here this week, any chance I can get you to join back into the RPG game?!?! -- .."your head can't rule your heart ~ a feeling is so much stronger than a thought"... $1 to Bono (U2) from "Vertigo"
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R E D N A L O 21 March 2005 08:42:46 [ permanent link ]
	On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 06:51:32 CST, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: <r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com> wrote in message>news:ca9q31he85h83ockuohj0cel7n080ipm1e@4ax.com...>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:05:02 CST, malonekath@aol.com wrote:>>> Auto racing is about brute agression - women can't compete - they>> are just not brute agessors like men are...> I think that there are a lot of Cup level drivers that would disagree. I>don't think brute agressors have many championships, but they have a lot of>DNFs.> -Russ. As neanderthal as it sounds, I think basic "brute agression" is what separates competitive men from competitive women. If you don't think that it's there, I've got a bridge for sale if you're interested. By the way, which Cup drivers have you had this discussion with that you "think" disagree? DR
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Chuck Steak 21 March 2005 21:21:16 [ permanent link ]
	In article <ZDV_d.94674$vO1.587141@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote: I simply do not see how there are physical limitations on a woman's body>that make it unsuitable for a Cup race. I await your evidence to the contrary.> -Russ. "how does a pozitrak work?... it just does!" -Joe Dirt Dan ---------------------------------------------- I got a new toolbox for my wife. Best trade I ever made.
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Crusader 21 March 2005 21:36:12 [ permanent link ]
	"Julia" <julia.dmbangel2004@gmail.com> wrote in message news:2005032020265943658%juliadmbangel2004@gmailcom...> On 2005-03-20 12:19:09 -0500, "Crusader" <cru32@comcast.net> said:> > See, i told ya u were missing something over here!> > Fun, huh?> > --> > BTW ~ since you got me tuned back into the fun in here this week, any> chance I can get you to join back into the RPG game?!?!> -- Nope. The rules are too open to interpretation, and i don't want to get suspended for a week or more. CRU
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R E D N A L O 22 March 2005 04:09:32 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:07:45 CST, malonekath@aol.com wrote: r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote:> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:05:02 CST, malonekath@aol.com wrote:>> At this point, the discrimination argument will probably pop up:>> >> Well, they just haven't been given all the breaks the men have ->> >>racing is sexist!>> > you're creating a straw man--no one has said in this discussion that>> >NASCAR is sexist. people have said that women haven't had the>access>> >that men have had. that's reality.>> You've never heard this argument in any of the racing news groups?>> I was just precluding it being brought up...> I honestly don't think anyone in this particular iteration of this>discussion was going to bring that up.> How many sports do you know of where men and women compete>> >head-to-head?>> > what has this got to do with the topic under discussion? auto>racing>> >isn't the same as football or track and field or swimming.>> As far as I know the topic of discussion is women competing against>men>> in NASCAR. You don't consider NASCAR a sport"> indeed, I do consider NASCAR to be a sport. but there is a difference>between head-to-head competition in auto racing v. the shot put, track>and field, swimming, etc. the fact that there is a motor vehicle being>used as well has got to play a signifcant role.> I don't know of any sport where a woman has come out and whipped>the>> >> boys, hands down;>> > which has got to do with women driving in the Cup series how,>exactly?>> >more straw men.>> You like the term "straw man/men," why?> ------------------>As a rhetorical term, "straw man" describes a point of view that was>created in order to be easily defeated in argument; the creator of a>"straw man" argument does not accurately reflect the best arguments of>his or her opponents, but instead sidesteps or mischaracterizes them so>as to make the opposing view appear weak or ridiculous.> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man>------------------> I thought the theme of this discussion was women and men competing in>> NASCAR...> it is. and I'm trying to keep the discussion focused on NASCAR, v.>making comparisions with other sports which are not comparable to auto>racing. yes, it is possible to say that women can't play football on>an equal footing as men, but I do not think that is a fruitful>comparison for auto racing.> obviously if you believe that women just can't do it, then that's what>you believe, and the distinctions I am trying to draw as I try to keep>the comparions comparable don't matter. that's OK--I understand and>accept your resistance to this idea.> and the "given enough time" argument is just baloney.>> > why? what substantive evidence do you have that with all of the>> >advantages of a top male driver a female driver can't be>competitive?>> >evidence, not opinion.>> What evidence do you have that a female driver could? Evidence, not>> opinion...> let's see.> IMO, racing takes good reflexes, an intuitive understanding of a>'balanced' car (how it feels, how it's wrong if it is, how to correct>it), intelligence, endurance, fearlessness, aggressiveness (v.>aggression), a certain (but not superhuman) amount of strength and>physical fitness. I'm not sure where women are ipso fact disqualified>by the qualities on this list.> Why don't we just put some women in the lab and pump them up with>> >> steroids and testosterone - what would that prove?>> > ??? what has this got to do with the skills needed for auto racing?>> >there was at time when it was thought women couldn't be astronauts.>or>> >fighter pilots. or stuntm...erm, stuntmen. but clearly many of>them>> >have the skills.>> What has astronauts, fighter pilots or stuntment got to do with>NASCAR?> your argument, if I am reading it correctly, was that women needed to>be "pump[ed] up with steroids and testosterone" to run NASCAR. I was>pointing out that, in areas which seem to require some of the physical>and mental qualities of auto racing, women seem to be doing quite well>despite previous beliefs that they could not move into those areas.> It's been my observation that men are naturally more agressive than>> women...> that's probably true. but men being naturally more aggressive doesn't>automatically preclude women from being aggressive and from some woman>from being very aggressive.> see, I don't see the world in a binary either/or way: men are>aggressive and women are not. I see the world in more Kierkegaardian>"both/and" way: some men are more aggressive and some some women are>also aggressive. we're obviously looking at the world through>different lenses (which is OK).> auto racing isn't merely about brute strength--otherwise>weightlifters>> >would be Cup champions. endurance is more than merely physical.>> >certainly reflexes count a lot on the track. so does intelligence,>> >where women are definitely in the running, if not the lead.* and so>> >does intuition because part of being a great athlete, especially in>a>> >setting like auto racing, is being able to anticipate the>> >unexpected--and of course women hold a definite advantage there.*>> Auto racing is about brute agression - women can't compete - they>> are just not brute agessors like men are...> just brute aggression? nothing else is required?> maybe 20 years ago auto racing was just about brute aggression, and>there are no doubt pockets of auto racing now which are still like>that. but I can't see that that is what NASCAR is about. the cars>that they drive now require a set of skills which are a bit more highly>refined and require a great deal more than mere "brute aggression".> also, it seems that the current drivers who rely solely on brute>aggression don't end up winning, or indeed finishing, that many races.>the cars, at least it seems to me, are set for a lighter touch. it's>very easy to lose control and therefore driving them requires at least>a modicum of self-control.> Like I said, it's just not going to happen...>> > post hoc ergo propter hoc.>> Semper Fi...> post hoc ergo propter hoc = after this, therefore because of this> ---------------------->Post hoc, also known as "coincidental correlation," is a logical>fallacy which assumes or asserts that if one event happens after>another, then the first must be the cause of the second. It is a>particularly tempting error because temporal sequence is integral to>causality - it is true that a cause always happens before its effect.>The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based only on the order of>events, which is not an accurate indicator. That is to say, it is not>always true that the first event caused the second event.> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc>---------------------> Katharine, who knows she's going to change any minds but is enjoying>the discussion nonetheless Katharine, thanks so much for the stimulating debate - it's been invigorating. I really do think that there is a place for women in racing, actually in the car and on the track with all the men. I do not think that "brute force" is all that is required to compete on the race track, but it helps - and that is what women who wants to be competitive will have to overcome. I would love to see a woman win a BGN or Cup championship, but in reality, will it ever happen? Not in my lifetime... DR --- Go 24-48 --------------------------- Proud Father of a US Marine --Semper Fi--
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Guest 22 March 2005 18:20:16 [ permanent link ]
	r_e_d_n_a_l_o@mchsi.com wrote: [big snip] Katharine, thanks so much for the stimulating debate - it's been invigorating.> I really do think that there is a place for women in racing, actually in the car> and on the track with all the men. I do not think that "brute force" is all that> is required to compete on the race track, but it helps - and that is what> women who wants to be competitive will have to overcome. I would love> to see a woman win a BGN or Cup championship, but in reality, will it ever> happen? Not in my lifetime... well, there's a twist to this discussion. I've enjoyed it too--I learn a lot more from people who disagree with me than I do from those who share my thinking, so thank you too! Katharine
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Guest 5 June 2006 18:34:24 [ permanent link ]
	i believe that women should have the right to race. i understand that some of them dont, butit is their choice. but one thing i dont get is that why do women complain on y they dont see that many women racing. why dont they get up and start racing, its that simple. if i was old enough and had the money i would get into racing..
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CarGuru > Nascar > Re: There should be more women in racing! 5 June 2006 18:34:24

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Re: There should be more women in racing!

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