Wheel alignment and wobbly

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CarGuru > Mercedes > Wheel alignment and wobbly 26 April 2005 08:53:50

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Wheel alignment and wobbly
Ben 8 April 2005 18:57:29
	Recently (within the past two weeks) I've noticed that my 91 300ce seems to be riding more "wobbly." I also noticed that the steering alignment is very much off, as I have to hold the wheel about 30-40 degrees to the left just to keep it straight on the road. If I let go of the wheel, it will immediately jerk to the right (this poses a potentially deadly problem on the interstate). Other than alignment, what sort of things do I need to check out? What causes this problem anyway? Thanks!
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Martin Joseph 8 April 2005 21:58:04 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-08 07:57:29 -0700, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> said: Recently (within the past two weeks) I've noticed that my 91 300ce > seems to be riding more "wobbly." I also noticed that the steering > alignment is very much off, as I have to hold the wheel about 30-40 > degrees to the left just to keep it straight on the road. If I let go > of the wheel, it will immediately jerk to the right (this poses a > potentially deadly problem on the interstate). Other than alignment, > what sort of things do I need to check out? What causes this problem > anyway? Thanks! DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR. If this issue appeared suddenly, that means something has come loose, and it might just be hanging by a thread. This is a problem that could kill you and innocent bystanders as well. Find a reputable front end shop (not the MB dealer) and have the car towed (or if it's close drive real slow.) Good luck, marty
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Rodney T. Grill 8 April 2005 22:29:52 [ permanent link ]
	Martin Joseph wrote:> On 2005-04-08 07:57:29 -0700, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> said:> Recently (within the past two weeks) I've noticed that my 91 300ce>> seems to be riding more "wobbly." I also noticed that the steering>> alignment is very much off, as I have to hold the wheel about 30-40>> degrees to the left just to keep it straight on the road. If I let>> go of the wheel, it will immediately jerk to the right (this poses a>> potentially deadly problem on the interstate). Other than alignment,>> what sort of things do I need to check out? What causes this problem>> anyway? Thanks!> DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR.> If this issue appeared suddenly, that means something has come loose,> and it might just be hanging by a thread. This is a problem that> could kill you and innocent bystanders as well.> Find a reputable front end shop (not the MB dealer) and have the car> towed (or if it's close drive real slow.)> Good luck,> marty DITTO! I had a car once where the bolts on the rack and pinion unit became loose and it did exactly the same thing. I was able to get it to a garage, and the mechanic said I was about two threads away form not having any steering control at all. -- - RODNEY
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T.G. Lambach 8 April 2005 22:35:40 [ permanent link ]
	You've been driving it this way for TWO WEEKS????
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Jim Vatunz 9 April 2005 00:15:46 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:57:29 -0400, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> wrote: Recently (within the past two weeks) I've noticed that my 91 >300ce seems to be riding more "wobbly." I also noticed that >the steering alignment is very much off, as I have to hold >the wheel about 30-40 degrees to the left just to keep it >straight on the road. If I let go of the wheel, it will >immediately jerk to the right (this poses a potentially >deadly problem on the interstate). Other than alignment, >what sort of things do I need to check out? What causes >this problem anyway? Thanks! > I had a problem like that years ago. The tread separated from the steel belt on the tyre. Very easy to check and cheap to fix. To view the day to day life of a loser go here. http://members.iinet.net.au/~farmerjim/log/log.html
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Ben 9 April 2005 08:54:11 [ permanent link ]
	Thanks for the replies. "Wobbly" is not the best term. It just seems to be riding a little more rough than normal.. but it's so slight that I'm not sure if it's just my imagination. I've inspected the tires and they look fine with no bulges or anything unusual. I thought the problem might just be wheel alignment but I hadn't thought of something about to fall apart. The only reputable MB repair shop I know of is closed on weekends. Other than not driving the car, is there anything I can do?
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T.G. Lambach 10 April 2005 00:25:14 [ permanent link ]
	Check all the tires' pressure. Jack up the front - each side - to see if its wheel rotates freely or drags due to a stuck brake. With one wheel off the ground shake the elevated wheel in all directions to test for looseness - do this carefully, not so hard that car falls off jack, sending jack flying. You may find nothing, in that case you should include the rear suspension in the possibilities; if a rear wheel isn't square to the body it will "steer" the car and so make the car "crab" down the road, and it may be that crabbing is what you're steering against. You will probably not see anything in the rear but may see a rear wheel move vs. the body when, with brakes off and front wheels blocked, the transmission is shifted from D to R and R to D with engine at idle.
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Ben 12 April 2005 07:07:45 [ permanent link ]
	Tire pressure is good. I jacked up the front end on both sides and they both spin fine, but I noticed the right wheel has a little bit of give when shaking it left-to-right. Bolts on all the wheels are tight. The only funny thing I noticed is that the shock springs are not exactly symmetrical on both sides. Looking from the side of the car, one spring is slightly convex, the other concave. I've never paid that close attention to them before, so I don't know whether that's normal.
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T.G. Lambach 12 April 2005 08:10:31 [ permanent link ]
	Have a M-B shop look it over.
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Guenter Scholz 13 April 2005 16:12:33 [ permanent link ]
	I have apparently a similar problem. My front starts shaking around 85kph until about 90 kph - severly sometimes depending on the road surface (washboard). Took tires off and everything appears tight, the torsion bar is a little lose in the rubber bushing but that's normal... I've changed tires to see if it's the wheel balance and the start of the shimmying now starts at about 80 kph. If the road is very smooth, there is no shimmying at all..... I'm confused as well. cheers ps could it simply be the steering damper I wonder?
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Martin Joseph 13 April 2005 21:52:06 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-13 05:12:33 -0700, scholz@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Guenter Scholz) said: I have apparently a similar problem. My front starts shaking around> 85kph until about 90 kph - severly sometimes depending on the road > surface (washboard). Took tires off and everything appears tight, the > torsion bar> is a little lose in the rubber bushing but that's normal... I've changed> tires to see if it's the wheel balance and the start of the shimmying now> starts at about 80 kph. If the road is very smooth, there is no shimmying at> all..... I'm confused as well. That doesn't sound like the same problem at all. Pay attention here guys... For the previous poster with the loose wheel. THIS IS A LIFE THREATENING ISSUE. Is that clear :~) Marty
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Guest 14 April 2005 00:05:29 [ permanent link ]
	I agree. He should look at the Tie Rod's. Mine started with a little pull. On further inspection, I noticedboth seals on the Left and Right tie rods were rotted and almost gone (238,000 miles). I bought the left and right from Rusty for less than 100.00 total. Set them to 333mm + or - 2mm, tightened them down, and swapped them out. Easy to do, the alignment was'n hurt, and pulling stopped. I would hate to see one of those snap. major damage to the front suspension would be the least of the problems, death to car occupants or pedestrians (or both) would be the worst. Either way, no reason to risk death for less than a Ben Franklin in parts, and less than two hours of work. Thom
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Ben 14 April 2005 07:20:04 [ permanent link ]
	I've looked at the tie rods and nothing is rusted or loose. Everything seems very well intact. Could one of the problems be the steering damper? Obviously the loose right wheel is a problem too, but I can't figure out exactly why it's loose. Is it going to fall off if I drive the car? I'm going to take it to the shop when I get a chance, but I would like to at least have an idea of what it could be just to satisfy my curiosity.
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Guest 14 April 2005 08:06:16 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:20:04 -0400, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> wrote: I'm going to take it to the shop when I get a chance, but I >would like to at least have an idea of what it could be just >to satisfy my curiosity. > Keep driving with a loose wheel and you won't have to worry about taking the car to the shop: when it falls off, and if you haven't hurt yourself or anyone else, just call the tow truck. Canoli
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Martin Joseph 14 April 2005 08:31:56 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-13 20:20:04 -0700, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> said: I've looked at the tie rods and nothing is rusted or loose. Everything > seems very well intact. Could one of the problems be the steering > damper? Obviously the loose right wheel is a problem too, but I can't > figure out exactly why it's loose. Is it going to fall off if I drive > the car? I'm going to take it to the shop when I get a chance, but I > would like to at least have an idea of what it could be just to satisfy > my curiosity. YOU SHOULDN"T DRIVE THE CAR (sorry for yelling). DO NOT DRIVE IT UNTIL YOU FIND/FIX THE PROBLEM. Sheesh. The loose right wheel is the problem, I'll bet. Could be ball joint or tie rods, or wheel bearings, or .... Don't drive the car until it's fixed, seriously. I am not joking. Imagine that right front wheel randomly steering the car around and not paying any attention to the steering wheel. Marty
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Pool Man 15 April 2005 05:47:08 [ permanent link ]
	this post started on the 8 th and it is now the 15 th you could have had it fixed by now. the case, minus a few cans!
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Ben 15 April 2005 06:24:44 [ permanent link ]
	I was very surprised when I got all these responses saying that the car is a deathtrap. I never thought of it being something that would result in a loss of steering altogether. Anyway, I have been driving another car and am going to take the Merc into the shop as soon as I get a chance. One more question: Is there any way to tell by looking whether a critical component is breaking down or about to fall off?
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Trader4@Optonline.Net 15 April 2005 09:17:58 [ permanent link ]
	" was very surprised when I got all these responses saying that the car is a deathtrap. I never thought of it being something that would result in a loss of steering altogether. Anyway, I have been driving another car and am going to take the Merc into the shop as soon as I get a chance. One more question: Is there any way to tell by looking whether a critical component is breaking down or about to fall off? " By now it's quite obvious that you're either a troll or incredibly stupid.
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Conrad 15 April 2005 21:22:32 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:24:44 -0400, Ben wrote: I was very surprised when I got all these responses saying > that the car is a deathtrap. I never thought of it being > something that would result in a loss of steering > altogether. Anyway, I have been driving another car and am > going to take the Merc into the shop as soon as I get a > chance. One more question: Is there any way to tell by > looking whether a critical component is breaking down or > about to fall off? In the case of my tie-rod incident - no - but I think that was just a defective part - the tie-rod end actually sheared (fractured?) on the threaded portion allowing the tie-rod to fall out of the steering knuckle. But most front-end problems manifest themselves by their symptoms. Which is what you have. Periodically inspecting your tires can reveal some problems - the tread wear should be laterally symetric, and not exhibit any variation in thickness around the circumference. As to some of the other posts. Really folks. A Troll or Stupid? It costs nothing to be civil to a troll - that is absolutely the response that most trolls _don't_ want. Trolls who get boring replies soon migrate elsewhere for their entertainment. As far as "stupid" - I don't know about the rest of you, but I was born stupid. Everything I know, someone had to share with me. While the idea of 2+tons of steel moving at 70 mph with no steering control being a bit unsafe seems blatantly obvious to some, it's a testament to the manufacturing quality of the automotive industry these days that catastrophic mechanical failure is just not on the radar of a lot of folks. The news-bits about Pintos and Crown Vics exploding, and certain SUV's turning cartwheels mostly serve to give us a false sense of security ("Thankgawdidonthaveoneofthemcars") I'm absolutely blown away when my significant other says something like, "The oil light in my car has been on for a week and it's really bugging me. Can you make it turn off? (Thank goodness replacing the pressure sender fixed that one). But instead of replying with my first reaction - "ARE YOU F#@CKING INSANE!!!" I had to gently say, "Honey, when that light comes on that means that there's a very good chance your engine is going to turn into a smoking piece of useless junk within three seconds, and you will get run over on the highway by the big truck behind you when that happens and it will cost thousands of dollars to bury whatever pieces of you they find in the charred wreckage.". Message received. Education beats castigation Cheers, Conrad
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Trader4@Optonline.Net 15 April 2005 21:41:22 [ permanent link ]
	"As far as "stupid" - I don't know about the rest of you, but I was born stupid. " Apparently you don't know the difference between being stupid and being ignorant. In this guys case, the whole thing has been explained to him several times and he's not an infant. If he still doesn't get it, in my book he is either stupid or a troll.
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Guest 15 April 2005 21:41:26 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:22:32 GMT, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> wrote: On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:24:44 -0400, Ben wrote: One more question: Is there any way to tell by >> looking whether a critical component is breaking down or >> about to fall off?> Education beats castigation > Cheers,> Conrad> Everything you say is true, but educating someone who hasn't a clue is more than difficult, it's almost impossible. Think about what he asks: "can you tell if something is breaking down or about to fall off simply by looking at it?". Does that not fly in the face of the simplest, most basic logic? Canoli
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Conrad 16 April 2005 01:04:22 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:41:26 +0000, canoli wrote: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:22:32 GMT, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> wrote:> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:24:44 -0400, Ben wrote:> One more question: Is there any way to tell by >>> looking whether a critical component is breaking down or >>> about to fall off?>> Education beats castigation >> Cheers,>> Conrad>> Everything you say is true, but educating someone who hasn't a clue is> more than difficult, it's almost impossible. > Think about what he asks: "can you tell if something is breaking down> or about to fall off simply by looking at it?". Does that not fly in> the face of the simplest, most basic logic? > Canoli Granted. My contention is that while there are some die-hard gearheads in this forum, who have black diesel oil running in their veins, and who appreciate the art of engineering in the Benzes, there are those who bought a Benz for other reasons, and who may be just a bit clueless about things mechanical. And, again, it is a tribute to current engineering that it is actually possible to treat a car as an appliance these days. Look at it this way. Computers are sold as appliances these days, "Just stick the key in and go". Yet they are complex devices, with many many hundreds of software components. I've been in the computer business for over 25 years, which in terms of hardware and software evolution far outstrips the evolution of the automotive industry in the last 75 years. There is one company which has consistently released some of the poorest, least reliable, most security-oblivious software I have ever seen. In excess of 99% of all viruses I have ever seen victimize this company's software. This company has been accused and convicted of sleazy business practices in multiple courts on multiple occasions. Yet most of the readers of this forum are still running some version of Microsoft Windows. Again, this is because of the "appliance mentality" that this is even possible - but let me ask you; do you know how to restart your print spooler? Do you know why DCOM and RPC are just stunningly bad ideas when run on a machine connected to the Internet? Or do you just blindly drive around the Internet with your front wheels wobbling? To my mind, and in my experience, this defies all "logic", simple, basic or otherwise. But I have to realize that this is not genetic knowledge, like breathing and suckling. All I'm saying is that Ben may be mechanically clueless, but he, and anyone else reading this forum, may be better seduced into the rewards of properly caring for and maintaining his Benz by a little courtesy than by name-calling. And if he's a troll, a polite answer will drive him out of the group faster than any other strategy - unless you enjoy feeding the trolls. Cheers, Conrad
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Conrad 16 April 2005 02:38:51 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:41:22 -0700, trader4@optonline.net wrote: "As far as "stupid" - I don't know about the rest of you, but> I was born stupid. "> Apparently you don't know the difference between being stupid and being> ignorant. Which would apparently make me born stupid and ignorant- see, it still works. In this guys case, the whole thing has been explained to him> several times and he's not an infant. If he still doesn't get it, in> my book he is either stupid or a troll. Again, flames are a troll's delight. Why indulge them? True stupidity implies a lack of processing power upstairs. Why chastise someone who is limited in this way? Ignorance is a simple lack of knowledge (I do know the differerence, but sometimes defer to common usage, which often does not differentiate between similar, but distinct adjectives), but not all folks fill their knowledge buckets up at the same rate. Berating those who are a little slower to acknowledge reality (and yes, a flaming death on the highway is a definite reality) probably doesn't do as much to convey the reality as it does to reveal the poster's character. A while back, I saw a post on another forum. As I read it, I laughed so hard that I blew my beer right out my nose, and had to spend a while cleaning my keyboard. Seems he had a 300D that wouldn't shut off, and he had gone to the local auto parts store, where they disconnected not one, but BOTH battery terminals, to no avail. The poster clearly had no knowledge of diesels, the mechanical nature of the fuel system in his car, and even less knowledge of basic electricity (both terminals?). Thank goodness some of those reading (those who weren't laughing too hard to type) gave the guy a clue. Politely. He fixed his problem, he may or may not still be stupid, and he's a little less ignorant. And in _my_ book, that's a good thing. Cheers, Conrad
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Aaron 16 April 2005 05:29:31 [ permanent link ]
	If I may.. I just started reading this thread but I feel the need to point out that some of us have dreamed of owning a Benz for years but now that we have them we are finding ourselves (myself) in over our heads. I have moved up the food chain from an old VW fastback that could be fixed with paperclips and duct tape to a car that has two $300 fuel pressure regulators, and that may be the cheapest thing wrong with my car. I admit that Ben comes across as impatient, but I remember the VW group where so many people were on at the same time that I could post a problem, eat dinner, and expect that a solution and detailed instructions had been posted in the meantime. It could be that he is just used to a simpler, faster fix. I do hope that I don't come across in my posts as stupid or ignorant, but keep in mind that I have acquired a car that has systems and options I have never dealt with and in some cases have never heard of. All I know is that once I drove a 500 series I was hooked, now I have one, and now it's time for me to learn by asking sometimes stupid, sometimes ignorant questions. Respectfully Aaron '91 560 SEL, love of my life, bane of my existence "Conrad" <nospam@no_org.net> wrote in message newsan.2005.04.15.21.03.16.584538@no_org.net...> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:41:26 +0000, canoli wrote:> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:22:32 GMT, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> wrote:> > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:24:44 -0400, Ben wrote:> > One more question: Is there any way to tell by> >>> looking whether a critical component is breaking down or> >>> about to fall off?> >> Education beats castigation > >> Cheers,> >> Conrad> >> Everything you say is true, but educating someone who hasn't a clue is> > more than difficult, it's almost impossible.> > Think about what he asks: "can you tell if something is breaking down> > or about to fall off simply by looking at it?". Does that not fly in> > the face of the simplest, most basic logic?> > Canoli> Granted. My contention is that while there are some die-hard> gearheads in this forum, who have black diesel oil running in> their veins, and who appreciate the art of engineering in the> Benzes, there are those who bought a Benz for other reasons,> and who may be just a bit clueless about things mechanical.> And, again, it is a tribute to current engineering that it is> actually possible to treat a car as an appliance these days.> Look at it this way. Computers are sold as appliances these> days, "Just stick the key in and go". Yet they are complex> devices, with many many hundreds of software components. I've> been in the computer business for over 25 years, which in terms> of hardware and software evolution far outstrips the evolution> of the automotive industry in the last 75 years.> There is one company which has consistently released some of> the poorest, least reliable, most security-oblivious software> I have ever seen. In excess of 99% of all viruses I have ever> seen victimize this company's software. This company has been> accused and convicted of sleazy business practices in multiple> courts on multiple occasions. Yet most of the readers of this> forum are still running some version of Microsoft Windows.> Again, this is because of the "appliance mentality" that this> is even possible - but let me ask you; do you know how to> restart your print spooler? Do you know why DCOM and RPC> are just stunningly bad ideas when run on a machine connected> to the Internet? Or do you just blindly drive around the> Internet with your front wheels wobbling?> To my mind, and in my experience, this defies all "logic",> simple, basic or otherwise. But I have to realize that this> is not genetic knowledge, like breathing and suckling.> All I'm saying is that Ben may be mechanically clueless,> but he, and anyone else reading this forum, may be better> seduced into the rewards of properly caring for and maintaining> his Benz by a little courtesy than by name-calling. And if> he's a troll, a polite answer will drive him out of the group> faster than any other strategy - unless you enjoy feeding> the trolls.> Cheers,> Conrad>
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Ernie Sparks 16 April 2005 07:24:30 [ permanent link ]
	Can I throw my broken ball joint story in about here? Was stationed in Germany in early '60s. Had shipped a 1958 Dodge with the D500 engine (rather large one at that) upon assignment. Made a left turn onto the base one morning and just as I did so the right, lower ball joint gave loose and the bottom of the wheel flipped out at about a 45 degree angle. When this happened it snapped the brake line and of course when I hit the brakes nothing happened. I slid to a rather embarrassing stop right in front of the gate guard. He was as surprised as me. Here's the interesting part.....I had well exceeded 100 mph the day before on the autobahn. Talk about luck! One other thing for the initial poster....GET YOUR FRONT END LOOKED AT BEFORE DRIVING FURTHER! Sorry. Didn't mean to shout. Just wanted to save you some embarrassment....or worse. "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:ogl7e.62598$vL3.35660@bignews4.bellsouth.net...> I've looked at the tie rods and nothing is rusted or loose.> Everything seems very well intact. Could one of the> problems be the steering damper? Obviously the loose right> wheel is a problem too, but I can't figure out exactly why> it's loose. Is it going to fall off if I drive the car?> I'm going to take it to the shop when I get a chance, but I> would like to at least have an idea of what it could be just> to satisfy my curiosity.>
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Martin Joseph 16 April 2005 08:05:46 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-15 14:04:22 -0700, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> said: Yet most of the readers of this> forum are still running some version of Microsoft Windows. Well they really are stupid... Sorry couldn't resist. I am with Conrad on this one. It's doesn't hurt to be nice. Marty
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Ben 16 April 2005 09:17:59 [ permanent link ]
	As I've said repeatedly, I have not been driving the car. I stopped after being told of the possibility that the car might suddenly be rendered uncontrollable on the road. As I've also said before, I'm not a mechanic, but I'm willing to learn and that's what I'm here to do. I sincerely appreciate it when people share their own knowledge and experiences. Truthfully, had it not been for some of the people here, I would still be driving the car and putting others and myself in danger. But it teaches me nothing to hear an anonymous stranger call me stupid without contributing anything of value. Anyway, I got the car looked at and all it needs is new tires. Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction. Ben
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Guest 16 April 2005 10:17:47 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:17:59 -0400, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> wrote: But it teaches me >nothing to hear an anonymous stranger call me stupid without >contributing anything of value.> Anyway, I got the car looked at and all it needs is new >tires. Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction.> Ben > Teaching requires a pupil able to learn: if you truly believe new tires will cure a loose wheel perhaps understanding mechanical aspects of the car is beyond your ken, particularly when you inspected and spun the present tires and found nothing visibly wrong with them. If money is a concern, have the car inspected at the nearest MB dealer, then bring it to your favorite local shop for the repairs. If it was me, I would have the work done by the dealer for peace of mind, if nothing else. Canoli Canoli
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Martin Joseph 16 April 2005 11:40:11 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-15 22:17:59 -0700, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> said: <snip> Anyway, I got the car looked at and all it needs is new tires. That isn't possible, unless your previous statement about the wheel being loose was wrong? Tires don't make a wheel loose, although they can make a car feel like it has a loose wheel on the road... Marty
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Jim Vatunz 16 April 2005 12:43:10 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:17:59 -0400, "Ben" <benj@bellsouth.net> wrote: As I've said repeatedly, I have not been driving the >car. I stopped after being told of the possibility that the >car might suddenly be rendered uncontrollable on the road. >As I've also said before, I'm not a mechanic, but I'm >willing to learn and that's what I'm here to do. I >sincerely appreciate it when people share their own >knowledge and experiences. Truthfully, had it not been for >some of the people here, I would still be driving the car >and putting others and myself in danger. But it teaches me >nothing to hear an anonymous stranger call me stupid without >contributing anything of value.> Anyway, I got the car looked at and all it needs is new >tires. Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction.> Ben > I had a hunch it was a tyre. As i said earlier it happened to me a few years ago with a different car. The tread separated from the steel belt and formed a somewhat large bubble, I couldn't see it either at first. Maybe i parked with it at the bottom on the road a couple of times but i was on a longish trip and put it down to knocking the wheel alignment out a bit so i tweaked that a bit fairly unsuccessfully. Upon arriving home a couple of days later the tyre was obvious to me and it scared me as it could have given up the ghost anytime. What was even more surprising was the tyre place where i bought the bad tyre didn't have any 2nd thoughts or arguments about replacing it. I'm not used to levels of service like that. Of course i still had the problem of having to tweak the wheel alignment back to somewhere near the correct position but i don't remember that being a problem or more than a few minutes work. I think you threw all of us when you stated the wheel was loose. That IS a problem but maybe you threw it in as a red herring. My stepdaughter complained of the same problem a few years ago and remembering my experience i told her. She told her mechanic what i said and it did save her some dollars as the mechanic hadn't considered the tyre and would have started attacking the car with spanners if she hadn't put the penny in the slot and mentioned tyre. To view the day to day life of a loser go here. http://members.iinet.net.au/~farmerjim/log/log.html
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Trader4@Optonline.Net 16 April 2005 16:32:38 [ permanent link ]
	"Anyway, I got the car looked at and all it needs is new tires. Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction. Ben " Oh really Ben? Now I know for sure you're a troll. Let's recap what you claimed starting from the beginning: "I also noticed that the steering alignment is very much off, as I have to hold the wheel about 30-40 degrees to the left just to keep it straight on the road. If I let go of the wheel, it will immediately jerk to the right (this poses a potentially deadly problem on the interstate). I've inspected the tires and they look fine with no bulges or anything unusual. " "Tire pressure is good. I jacked up the front end on both sides and they both spin fine, but I noticed the right wheel has a little bit of give when shaking it left-to-right." "I've looked at the tie rods and nothing is rusted or loose. Everything seems very well intact. Could one of the problems be the steering damper? Obviously the loose right wheel is a problem too, but I can't figure out exactly why it's loose. Is it going to fall off if I drive the car? " "I was very surprised when I got all these responses saying that the car is a deathtrap. I never thought of it being something that would result in a loss of steering altogether." So, let's get all this straight. In a period of two weeks, your car got to the point that you had to hold the wheel at 40 degrees to go straight and keep it on the road. If you let go, you said the car jerked to the right so hard that it was potentially deadly. Yet, you're profess surprise when told not to drive the car because it's dangerous. You find a right wheel that's loose when you shake it, inspected the tires and said they looked OK, yet all is now solved with some new tires. I also find it amazing that someone that professes to know so little about either cars or how serious this problem you described is, would know what tie rod ends are, or a steering damper, yet you brought up the terms. IMO, a troll for sure!
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Dori A Schmetterling 16 April 2005 19:53:20 [ permanent link ]
	Did you enjoy the beer and/or wine? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:Oz%7e.4615$dT4.1644@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... [...]> Was stationed in Germany in early '60s. Had shipped a 1958 Dodge with the [...]
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Martin Joseph 16 April 2005 20:14:26 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-16 05:32:38 -0700, "trader4@optonline.net" <trader4@optonline.net> said:> IMO, a troll for sure! I think you are a troll.
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Trader4@Optonline.Net 16 April 2005 20:51:36 [ permanent link ]
	" Well they really are stupid... Sorry couldn't resist. I am with Conrad on this one. It's doesn't hurt to be nice. " Marty Nice going Marty. You say it doesn't hurt to be nice, but here you are calling people here who use MSFT Windows stupid. Must be nice to be real smart like you!
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Trader4@Optonline.Net 16 April 2005 20:56:35 [ permanent link ]
	"That isn't possible, unless your previous statement about the wheel being loose was wrong? Tires don't make a wheel loose, although they can make a car feel like it has a loose wheel on the road... Marty Gee, Marty, maybe you're finally starting to figure out that all this BS doesnt add up and this clown is a troll!
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Conrad 17 April 2005 01:34:19 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:51:36 -0700, trader4@optonline.net wrote: " Well they really are stupid...> Sorry couldn't resist.> I am with Conrad on this one. It's doesn't hurt to be nice. "> Marty> Nice going Marty. You say it doesn't hurt to be nice, but here you are> calling people here who use MSFT Windows stupid. Must be nice to be> real smart like you! Umm - I suspect that Martin didn't break his advice. It's called "humor", and a touch of it here and there doesn't hurt. Martin had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he wrote this - or he wouldn't be running Windows himself Conrad
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Pool Man 17 April 2005 02:20:02 [ permanent link ]
	amd i thought it was winders the case, minus a few cans!
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Ernie Sparks 17 April 2005 05:11:57 [ permanent link ]
	"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message news:426134f5$0$290$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...> Did you enjoy the beer and/or wine? You had to ask?!! '59er Rhine wine was the absolutely best wine I've ever had. Must have drank up a fortune there since I found out it was $23 per bottle when I returned to the states. I paid about $2 there....several bottles per month.....many times a bottle with lunch! Ahhhh.....those were the days. For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling> ---> "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message> news:Oz%7e.4615$dT4.1644@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...> [...]> > Was stationed in Germany in early '60s. Had shipped a 1958 Dodge with [...]>
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Guest 17 April 2005 05:34:05 [ permanent link ]
	On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:11:57 GMT, "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I paid about $2 there....several>bottles per month.....many times a bottle with lunch! Ahhhh.....those were>the days.> Try Two Buck Chuck at Trader Joe, maybe costs a bit more outside California. Here in LA it's $24 a case, and is as good and maybe even better than many wines which are much more expensive. Canoli
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Martin Joseph 17 April 2005 08:40:48 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-16 14:34:19 -0700, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> said:> Umm - I suspect that Martin didn't break his advice. It's called> "humor", and a touch of it here and there doesn't hurt. Martin> had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he wrote this - or he> wouldn't be running Windows himself I'm not and I never will. Still it was intend as humor.... Which always does contain a grain of truth.
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Pete Cowper 17 April 2005 10:29:45 [ permanent link ]
	Hey, let's show some respect for trolls. I remember from my childhood fairly tales, I think it was the "Three Billy Goats Gruff," that trolls live under bridges. We have a beloved member of this group who claims to live under a bridge with his S420 . . . Pete Cowper (1987 300E)
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Dori A Schmetterling 17 April 2005 13:45:21 [ permanent link ]
	There's excellent wine from California and the Pacific North West these days, but they ain't necessarily cheap. I can confirm that decent wine in Germany is still cheap, e.g. EUR 5 for a 0.75 l bottle (gone up from 0.7 l in your day...) for something pretty decent bought directly from a vintner. In real terms wine is probably cheaper than its ever been. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:xJi8e.4975$dT4.2945@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... [...]> You had to ask?!! '59er Rhine wine was the absolutely best wine I've ever> had. Must have drank up a fortune there since I found out it was $23 per> bottle when I returned to the states. I paid about $2 there....several> bottles per month.....many times a bottle with lunch! Ahhhh.....those were> the days.> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>> --->> "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message>> news:Oz%7e.4615$dT4.1644@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...>> [...]>> > Was stationed in Germany in early '60s. Had shipped a 1958 Dodge with> the>> [...]>
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Conrad 17 April 2005 23:00:59 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:40:48 -0700, Martin Joseph wrote: On 2005-04-16 14:34:19 -0700, Conrad <nospam@no_org.net> said:>> Umm - I suspect that Martin didn't break his advice. It's called>> "humor", and a touch of it here and there doesn't hurt. Martin>> had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he wrote this - or he>> wouldn't be running Windows himself > I'm not and I never will. Still it was intend as humor.... Which > always does contain a grain of truth. My sincere apologies for the insult, sir, (I was looking at the wrong message header when I wrote that) and many thanks for your not supporting bad software. That's really all it takes to get developers to make good software - just don't buy the sorry stuff. I wonder when Unison is going to get ported to the other *nix platforms - from OS X to BSD to Solaris to Linux doesn't seem like much of a stretch... Grains of truth are apparently much like grains of sand - they get in some folks shorts... Cheers, Conrad
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Dori A Schmetterling 18 April 2005 00:47:08 [ permanent link ]
	PS. By the time it gets to Britain it's at least double, if not triple Part of that is because of tax, but what I can't understand how AU/NZ wine can undercut (in price, not quality) German wine here (UK) DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message news:42623034$0$289$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...> There's excellent wine from California and the Pacific North West these > days, but they ain't necessarily cheap.> I can confirm that decent wine in Germany is still cheap, e.g. EUR 5 for a > 0.75 l bottle (gone up from 0.7 l in your day...) for something pretty > decent bought directly from a vintner.> In real terms wine is probably cheaper than its ever been.> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling> ---> "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:xJi8e.4975$dT4.2945@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...> [...]>> You had to ask?!! '59er Rhine wine was the absolutely best wine I've ever>> had. Must have drank up a fortune there since I found out it was $23 per>> bottle when I returned to the states. I paid about $2 there....several>> bottles per month.....many times a bottle with lunch! Ahhhh.....those >> were>> the days.>> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>>> --->>> "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message>>> news:Oz%7e.4615$dT4.1644@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...>>> [...]>>> > Was stationed in Germany in early '60s. Had shipped a 1958 Dodge with>> the>>> [...]>>
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Marlinspike 18 April 2005 02:01:42 [ permanent link ]
	Yeah, his problem sounds to be a ball joint thats about to go too seeing as how he mentioned one of the wheels moves side to side. Wheels shouldn't move side to side at all, that's in fact how to test for bad ball joints.
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Conrad 18 April 2005 03:21:31 [ permanent link ]
	On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:01:42 -0700, marlinspike wrote: Yeah, his problem sounds to be a ball joint thats about to go too> seeing as how he mentioned one of the wheels moves side to side. Wheels> shouldn't move side to side at all, that's in fact how to test for bad> ball joints. OK, now I'm confused. I was thinking that the tie-rods, which are connected to the steering box, controlled the side-to-side (i.e. steering) motion. I was also thinking that the upper and lower ball joints allowed the wheel to pivot up and down on the control arms, (vertical suspension movement) while allowing the tie-rods to move the wheel assemblies left and right. My thinking was that rocking the wheel at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions tested the tie-rods more than the ball joints and that grabbing the wheel at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions (OK, allowing for a few degrees of caster) was more definitive for ball joints. Of course, if the wheel bearings are shot/loose the wheel will probably wiggle no matter where you grab it. Any front end-wizards have a take on this? Conrad
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Greek_philosophizer 18 April 2005 17:08:21 [ permanent link ]
	Dori A Schmetterling wrote:> AU wines have been "quite nice" for years. In fact, I heard the other day> they have overtaken French wines as Britons' favourite wine region.> German white wines are good/excellent, red not (despite their best> endeavours). Of course there are poor white wines, too. Depends what and> where you buy. I think in the USA the problem for many potential wine consumers is not the price or the availability of quality wine but the lack of enough wine experience to be able to decide which wine is of decent quality. .
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Dori A Schmetterling 18 April 2005 19:43:31 [ permanent link ]
	I am reminded of what I thought was a slightly peculiar experience in the LA area a few years ago. The family was driving around and I wanted to buy a bottle of red wine for dinner that evening (staying with relatives). I stopped at this classy looking wine store and asked for a suggestions for bottle of decent red for maybe USD 15. I was led straight to the Italian section... When I asked about Californian I was told there was no good 'cheap' Californian wine. And I thought I was in a (THE) wine growing state of the Union... If you're wondering, I did buy a Californian wine as I didn't come all this way to drink French or Italian, but it cost me over USD 20... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "greek_philosophizer" <greek_philosophizer@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1113829701.088568.40110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... [...]> I think in the USA the problem for many potential wine> consumers is not the price or the> availability of quality wine but the> lack of enough wine experience to be able to> decide which wine is of decent quality.
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Martin Joseph 18 April 2005 21:37:35 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-18 03:24:55 -0700, "Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> said: AU wines have been "quite nice" for years. In fact, I heard the other > day they have overtaken French wines as Britons' favourite wine region.> German white wines are good/excellent, red not (despite their best > endeavours). Of course there are poor white wines, too. Depends what > and where you buy. That makes sense, since I tend to prefer the reds... Marty
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Guest 18 April 2005 22:25:37 [ permanent link ]
	On 18 Apr 2005 06:08:21 -0700, "greek_philosophizer" <greek_philosophizer@hotmail.com> wrote: I think in the USA the problem for many potential wine>consumers is not the price or the>availability of quality wine but the>lack of enough wine experience to be able to>decide which wine is of decent quality. > . Not quite. It doesn't require years of experience to know when a wine pleases and when it does not. The problems arise when an inexpensive bottle of wine is as good or better than the most expensive brands, creating questions as to why the supposedly 'better' brand is so much more than the much cheaper wine, which is more pleasing. I don't drink much wine anymore but when I do I go to Trader Joe's nearest store and buy a $2.00 bottle of Charles Shaw, familiarly known as Two Buck Chuck. I don't know if it has nose, character, or any of the other descriptive terms used by connoisseurs, but I enjoy it as much or more than all other wines, with the sole exception of Opus One. Canoli
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Dori A Schmetterling 19 April 2005 01:13:17 [ permanent link ]
	An interesting development in France is the arrival of Australian, American and other winemasters with experience of New Word techniques... DAS -- For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "Martin Joseph" <mercedes@barknaturalpet.com> wrote in message news:2005041810373550073%mercedes@barknaturalpetcom... [...]> That makes sense, since I tend to prefer the reds...> Marty>
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Ernie Sparks 24 April 2005 04:22:52 [ permanent link ]
	<canoli@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:40f36156ia9qtteei5dq1thn43v2a8hsv4@4ax.com...> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:11:57 GMT, "Ernie Sparks"> <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> I paid about $2 there....several> >bottles per month.....many times a bottle with lunch! Ahhhh.....those were> >the days.> > Try Two Buck Chuck at Trader Joe, maybe costs a bit more outside> California. Here in LA it's $24 a case, and is as good and maybe even> better than many wines which are much more expensive.> Canoli> Are we talking the same stuff? I'm talking about 1959 Rhine Valley white wine bottled in 1959. It was called '59er Rhine Wine. Don't think it would even be good now. Too long ago for white wine I believe.
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Ernie Sparks 24 April 2005 04:27:23 [ permanent link ]
	<canoli@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:sut761p8sucjtipra0t3hsioetbr4te8b5@4ax.com...> On 18 Apr 2005 06:08:21 -0700, "greek_philosophizer"> <greek_philosophizer@hotmail.com> wrote:> I think in the USA the problem for many potential wine> >consumers is not the price or the> >availability of quality wine but the> >lack of enough wine experience to be able to> >decide which wine is of decent quality.> > .> Not quite. It doesn't require years of experience to know when a wine> pleases and when it does not. The problems arise when an inexpensive> bottle of wine is as good or better than the most expensive brands,> creating questions as to why the supposedly 'better' brand is so much> more than the much cheaper wine, which is more pleasing.> I don't drink much wine anymore but when I do I go to Trader Joe's> nearest store and buy a $2.00 bottle of Charles Shaw, familiarly known> as Two Buck Chuck. I don't know if it has nose, character, or any of> the other descriptive terms used by connoisseurs, but I enjoy it as> much or more than all other wines, with the sole exception of Opus> One.> Canoli> You're not the first to suggest the Two Buck Chuck. Guess I'll have to try that.
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Ernie Sparks 24 April 2005 04:28:43 [ permanent link ]
	"marlinspike" <rishayegan@davidson.edu> wrote in message news:1113773099.531199.253020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> Yeah, his problem sounds to be a ball joint thats about to go too> seeing as how he mentioned one of the wheels moves side to side. Wheels> shouldn't move side to side at all, that's in fact how to test for bad> ball joints.> OK. OK. How did we get from wines to cars? Oh........wrong thread..............
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CarGuru > Mercedes > Wheel alignment and wobbly 26 April 2005 08:53:50

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Wheel alignment and wobbly

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