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300D with manual tranny
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CarGuru > Mercedes > 300D with manual tranny 3 May 2005 06:36:13

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300D with manual tranny

Ron Tellus 8 April 2005 00:02:56
 Did Mercedes ever build the 300D with a manual 4 speed or 5 speed?



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T.G. Lambach 8 April 2005 06:52:22 permanent link ]
 not for the USA market.
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Ernie Sparks 8 April 2005 06:58:07 permanent link ]
 Know if it is possible to put a 4-speed stick in one?


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Cp 8 April 2005 07:49:56 permanent link ]
 
Know if it is possible to put a 4-speed stick in one?

If you're thinking of the 240d 4spd that would be pointless, unless you added another gear. If you like I can bring you a w124 200d
or 250d (turbo) or 300d (turbo too) from germany next time I go :-)­ my mother has a w124 200d 5spd and it's great, I think it gets
34mpg in the city.

cp


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Wy 9 April 2005 03:30:39 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:02:56 +0000, Ron Tellus <RTellus@maxtel.net­>
wrote:
Did Mercedes ever build the 300D with a manual 4 speed or 5 speed?>
Yes indeed. My oldest MB is a 23 year old 300D with a 4-speed manual
shift. Still running sweetly.
Add comment
Conrad 14 April 2005 04:51:58 permanent link ]
 On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:49:56 +0000, cp wrote:
Know if it is possible to put a 4-speed stick in one?>
If you're thinking of the 240d 4spd that would be pointless, unless you added another gear. If you like I can bring you a w124 200d > or 250d (turbo) or 300d (turbo too) from germany next time I go :-)­ my mother has a w124 200d 5spd and it's great, I think it gets > 34mpg in the city.>
cp


Hmm - I'd be interested in seeing the transmission numbers - I suspect
that the standard transmission may be the same, and the 240 just has
a lower-geared differential. Rumor has it that between the 300D
and the 300D turbo that the differential (rear end) is geared higher on
the turbo, but the trannies are the same - anyone have any thoughts on
this?

Still, this is not a conversion for the fainthearted...

Conrad

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Ernie Sparks 14 April 2005 07:13:25 permanent link ]
 
"WÇY" <WÇY@czerny.labs> wrote in message
news:1v4e51p34fqa2o­alhoi93rf2kge1nd60ar­@4ax.com...> On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:02:56 +0000, Ron Tellus <RTellus@maxtel.net­>> wrote:>
Did Mercedes ever build the 300D with a manual 4 speed or 5 speed?> >
Yes indeed. My oldest MB is a 23 year old 300D with a 4-speed manual> shift. Still running sweetly.


Wish I had a stick in my '81 300D. Better mileage?


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Pete Cowper 14 April 2005 09:14:43 permanent link ]
 
"Did Mercedes ever build the 300D with a manual 4 speed or 5 speed?"

In 1999, I rode in a 300D taxi at the Hong Kong airport with a huge
column shift lever sticking out. At the time I thought t might even be
a 3 speed, probably was a 4 speed on the column.

Pete Cowper (1987 300E)

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Pete 20 April 2005 06:30:43 permanent link ]
 I have heard that the 300 turbo can be installed in the 240 but only with
the 300 auto transmission - that is, not the 240 auto transmission. Can the
240D manual transmission be applied to the 300 turbo engine? specifically
a 1983 240 D std 4 spd transmission ?
Why isn't there an overdrive transmission available ?! in the US. std or
auto.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Tellus" <RTellus@maxtel.net­>
Newsgroups: alt.auto.mercedes
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: 300D with manual tranny

Did Mercedes ever build the 300D with a manual 4 speed or 5 speed?>



"Conrad" <nospam@no_org.net>­ wrote in message
news:p­an.2005.04.14­.00.50.49.484707@no_­org.net...> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:49:56 +0000, cp wrote:>
Know if it is possible to put a 4-speed stick in one?>>
If you're thinking of the 240d 4spd that would be pointless, unless you >> added another gear. If you like I can bring you a w124 200d>> or 250d (turbo) or 300d (turbo too) from germany next time I go :-)­ my >> mother has a w124 200d 5spd and it's great, I think it gets>> 34mpg in the city.>>
Hmm - I'd be interested in seeing the transmission numbers - I suspect> that the standard transmission may be the same, and the 240 just has> a lower-geared differential. Rumor has it that between the 300D> and the 300D turbo that the differential (rear end) is geared higher on> the turbo, but the trannies are the same - anyone have any thoughts on> this?>
Still, this is not a conversion for the fainthearted...>
Conrad>


Add comment
Cp 20 April 2005 07:46:56 permanent link ]
 
I have heard that the 300 turbo can be installed in the 240 but only with> the 300 auto transmission - that is, not the 240 auto transmission.

If you install a 300 turbo with a 300 auto transmission, in a 240... then you will get a 300. 240 and 300 are the same car, except
for different engine and transmission.

cp


Add comment
Conrad 20 April 2005 16:51:47 permanent link ]
 On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 02:30:43 +0000, Pete wrote:
I have heard that the 300 turbo can be installed in the 240 but only with> the 300 auto transmission - that is, not the 240 auto transmission.

OK, the auto's may be a different matter. I'm interested in the whole
auto-tranny interchangeability thing myself, since my reverse on my 300
turbo is very weak, and I have a tranny from a non-turbo 300. I suspect
that the 240 auto transmission was originally engineered for the 240 and
that the 300 auto had some upgraded parts - and the turbo auto tranny may
be the same deal. On the flip side, at least on 300s, if the transmissions
ARE different between the turbo and non-turbo, then why do the turbos
have a higher rear-end ratio - if they were re-engineering the trannies
for turbo use anyway, why not change the gear ratios in the transmission
and use the same rear-end?

Can the> 240D manual transmission be applied to the 300 turbo engine? specifically> a 1983 240 D std 4 spd transmission ?

As far as the manual transmissions go, I suspect that as overbuilt
as the Germans tend to make things that the manual transmissions
are more likely to be interchangeable than the autos - but I do not know
this for a fact. My best guess since the bodies have the same mount
points that the only difference would might be the overall transmission
length - which, if different, would necessitate swapping driveshafts
also. Got a tape measure and access to both vehicles? If the drive-shafts
are the same length (and I mean exactly the same - to the millimeter)
then I would think it would be doable without swapping driveshafts. I'd
be a lot less nervous about putting a 240 manual on a 300 turbo than I am
about swapping auto trannies - the most likely area of concern I see would
be in the clutch bits - it's possible that the correct 300 turbo clutch
parts are stronger than 240 clutch parts.

This is all pure conjecture. Anyone got one of those nifty W123 diesel
parts books with all the part numbers?
Why isn't there an overdrive transmission available ?! in the US. std or> auto.>

In the U.S.? Was overdrive available elswhere? Either way, the diesels
have such a flat power curve that I'm not sure overdrive would gain
you much. Besides, I bet if you look at the tranmission ratios that
the high gear is a little taller than you'd expect - kind of overdrive.

Conrad


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Pete 21 April 2005 04:51:36 permanent link ]
 That would be very interesting indeed !

"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> wrote in message news:Ebn5e.6399$yV3­.629@clgrps12...>> Know if it is possible to put a 4-speed stick in one?>
If you're thinking of the 240d 4spd that would be pointless, unless you > added another gear. If you like I can bring you a w124 200d or 250d > (turbo) or 300d (turbo too) from germany next time I go :-)­ my mother > has a w124 200d 5spd and it's great, I think it gets 34mpg in the city.>


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Pool Man 21 April 2005 04:52:03 permanent link ]
 changing the rear end is a lot cheaper than reworking a tranny.
my guess any way

the case, minus a few cans!


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R & K 22 April 2005 20:05:24 permanent link ]
 I did the exact conversion that you are talking about. I drive a 1979
240D. About four years ago the oil pump quit and took the engine with
it. I had the option of rebuilding my 240 engine, selling the car to
someone with a good engine and a wrecked body, or doing an engine swap.
It just so happens that I was talking to the guy who does body and
paint for me, and he had a 300SD which had been totalled in a rear end
crash.

I had the engine installed and kept my original 4 speed tranny. The
tranny that came with the engine was an automatic, and the surgery to
install that in my car was a problem I didn't want to deal with. I did
have the transmission fully overhauled at that time. I did not change
out any gears or anything funky.

I've been driving it since around 2001, have had zero problems with it.
I get about 22-25 US mpg. (26-28 if I can find biodiesel). This is the
same mileage as I got with the 240. The major difference is POWER! The
240 is rated at around 67 hp, and the 300 turbo at ~120 or so. Can't
remember the exact numbers. I live in a mountain state, and the
difference climbing hills, or even doing freeway onramps is amazing.

In the 240, I was climbing hills in 2nd, maybe 3rd, doing about 30-35mph
and staring at the semi about to use me as a hood ornament. Now I can
actually have a fully loaded car, 4people & luggage, and climb the same
hill at 55-65. <G> Much better!

The 240 may be a fine engine for city driving, and highway on the flat,
but it just isn't enough for mountains.

Rochelle
Add comment
Ernie Sparks 24 April 2005 02:54:00 permanent link ]
 
"R & K" <rhess3@mindspring.­com> wrote in message
news:8h9ae.10377$An­2.851@newsread2.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.> I did the exact conversion that you are talking about. I drive a 1979> 240D. About four years ago the oil pump quit and took the engine with> it. I had the option of rebuilding my 240 engine, selling the car to> someone with a good engine and a wrecked body, or doing an engine swap.> It just so happens that I was talking to the guy who does body and> paint for me, and he had a 300SD which had been totalled in a rear end> crash.>
I had the engine installed and kept my original 4 speed tranny. The> tranny that came with the engine was an automatic, and the surgery to> install that in my car was a problem I didn't want to deal with. I did> have the transmission fully overhauled at that time. I did not change> out any gears or anything funky.>
I've been driving it since around 2001, have had zero problems with it.> I get about 22-25 US mpg. (26-28 if I can find biodiesel). This is the> same mileage as I got with the 240. The major difference is POWER! The> 240 is rated at around 67 hp, and the 300 turbo at ~120 or so. Can't> remember the exact numbers. I live in a mountain state, and the> difference climbing hills, or even doing freeway onramps is amazing.>
In the 240, I was climbing hills in 2nd, maybe 3rd, doing about 30-35mph> and staring at the semi about to use me as a hood ornament. Now I can> actually have a fully loaded car, 4people & luggage, and climb the same> hill at 55-65. <G> Much better!>
The 240 may be a fine engine for city driving, and highway on the flat,> but it just isn't enough for mountains.>
Rochelle

Thanks for the post Rochelle! I've been looking for someone who has actually
done this type of conversion. I have an '81 24D with 4-spd manual and only
125k but am sometimes in the same position where a little more power would
be great. Only problem is this darn 240 runs perfect, doesn't leak a drop of
oil, doesn't use a drop, drives virtually perfect and gets 25 mpg around
town. I'm in S. Cal but plan to keep this ole bullet-proof car for the
"duration". If it ever gives up the ghost I'm looking for a 5-cyl engine.
Again, thanks for the very informative post.


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R & K 24 April 2005 06:45:27 permanent link ]
 They are bulletproof little beasts aren't they? I can understand why
you would want a little more power in Southern California. I grew up in
Orange County and went to grad school in LA, so I know the freeways. At
the time, I was driving a little Datsun. I was pedalling as fast as I
could and that little 4 cyl. just had a hard time.

I currently have an oil leak that has been a real stinker to track down,
and the weather has not exactly been cooperative.

Ever wonder why it can be fun tinkering with your car when it is about
70 degrees F, and such a pain in the **** when it is 20 F.

Have fun with your 240!

Rochelle
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Guest 25 April 2005 19:23:43 permanent link ]
 Was the 300 a non-turbo? I have a 1982 300 D turbo that I want to
eventually put a 4 speed into that originated in my 1976 240. I have
heard conflicting views about doing this. Ray

Add comment
R & K 26 April 2005 22:00:10 permanent link ]
 The 300 engine that I used in my engine swap is a turbo out of a 1983
300SD. My car is a 1979 240D (non turbo, of course). The transmission
is the original from the 240, 4 speed manual. Had it overhauled at the
time of the transplant, since it was out anyway, and I knew that the
turbo engine has a lot of torque and might put some stress on it.
Didn't do anything weird.

My mechanic said he has done a few of these transplants, with no
problems. It has been over three years for me and car still runs like a
champ.

Rochelle

rfenio@indiana.edu wrote:> Was the 300 a non-turbo? I have a 1982 300 D turbo that I want to> eventually put a 4 speed into that originated in my 1976 240. I have> heard conflicting views about doing this. Ray>
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Steve Gallegos via CarKB.com 28 April 2005 07:02:41 permanent link ]
 Wow, i cant believe i found this. I have just got a lil work done to my
1985 300D. My turbo is now rebuilt and some vacuum lines fixed. Anyways, i
want to know how hard it is to either swap in a 240D 4-speed transmission
into my car, or one of the europeon model 5-speeds. I have heard it is real
difficult, but never talked to someone who did it. Also, i understand one
of you had a shop do it, if you dont mind, how much did that cost you?
Thanks a lot.

Steve
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R & K 29 April 2005 04:00:38 permanent link ]
 I'm the one who had the shop do it. AFAIK, the engine and transmission
mated up just fine. (I wish I did have the 5 speed though, and I've got
my ear to the ground a little.) To the best of my knowledge, the bolt
pattern and the housings are the same shape. I suppose I could go dig
out the old 240 engine and the tranny from the 300 and look at them to
be sure, but I didn't see any sign of any weirdness the last time I was
under the car.

The whole transplant, labor and parts, including a rebuild of my 4 speed
tranny, ran in the neighborhood of $3K U.S. about three years ago.
Rebuilding my 240 would have run about the same, so I went for more
power. I climb real mountains here <G>.

Rochelle


P.S. Still trying to find a home for the automatic transmission which
came with my engine, and is currently holding my trailer down. Anyone
interested?



Steve Gallegos via CarKB.com wrote:> Wow, i cant believe i found this. I have just got a lil work done to my> 1985 300D. My turbo is now rebuilt and some vacuum lines fixed. Anyways, i> want to know how hard it is to either swap in a 240D 4-speed transmission> into my car, or one of the europeon model 5-speeds. I have heard it is real> difficult, but never talked to someone who did it. Also, i understand one> of you had a shop do it, if you dont mind, how much did that cost you?> Thanks a lot.>
Steve
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Steve Gallegos via CarKB.com 30 April 2005 07:24:44 permanent link ]
 I am so dumb, i had the opportunity to buy a 300D with 5speed for not that
much, and could have done an engine swap, but i didnt

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.co­m
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Pete 2 May 2005 20:27:24 permanent link ]
 Who did the work for you and is there any chance I could talk to them?.
Where are you or where was the work done?
thanks, Pete


"R & K" <rhess3@mindspring.­com> wrote in message
news:GOece.944$BE3.­346@newsread2.news.p­as.earthlink.net...>­ I'm the one who had the shop do it. AFAIK, the engine and transmission > mated up just fine. (I wish I did have the 5 speed though, and I've got > my ear to the ground a little.) To the best of my knowledge, the bolt > pattern and the housings are the same shape. I suppose I could go dig out > the old 240 engine and the tranny from the 300 and look at them to be > sure, but I didn't see any sign of any weirdness the last time I was under > the car.>
The whole transplant, labor and parts, including a rebuild of my 4 speed > tranny, ran in the neighborhood of $3K U.S. about three years ago. > Rebuilding my 240 would have run about the same, so I went for more power. > I climb real mountains here <G>.>
Rochelle>
P.S. Still trying to find a home for the automatic transmission which came > with my engine, and is currently holding my trailer down. Anyone > interested?>
Steve Gallegos via CarKB.com wrote:>> Wow, i cant believe i found this. I have just got a lil work done to my>> 1985 300D. My turbo is now rebuilt and some vacuum lines fixed. Anyways, >> i>> want to know how hard it is to either swap in a 240D 4-speed transmission>> into my car, or one of the europeon model 5-speeds. I have heard it is >> real>> difficult, but never talked to someone who did it. Also, i understand one>> of you had a shop do it, if you dont mind, how much did that cost you?>> Thanks a lot.>>
Steve


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CarGuru > Mercedes > 300D with manual tranny 3 May 2005 06:36:13

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