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CarGuru > Mercedes > Stupid Suppliers! 6 April 2005 21:43:42

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Stupid Suppliers!
Greek_philosophizer 4 April 2005 18:26:48
	( He has a point ) http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=8070211 FRANKFURT, Germany (Reuters) - The chief of DaimlerChrysler, which just days ago announced the biggest recall in its history, says the company made mistakes in its supply management, a German magazine reports. CEO Juergen Schrempp told Der Spiegel magazine that "it was wrong to rely fully and completely on system suppliers who supply a complete navigation system or an engine management system." Daimler last week recalled 1.3 million Mercedes vehicles. In the interview, Schrempp said Chrysler chief Dieter Zetsche's opposition to his plan to keep a financial lifeline open for Mitsubishi does not mean Zetsche cannot become his successor. "That is complete nonsense," Schrempp said, when asked that many people think Zetsche has no chance to become CEO because they disagreed on Mitsubishi. "It's not the style of this company or mine that the decisions made in certain committees have any sort of relevance on the career of a management board member." Zetsche opposed Schrempp's lobbying to keep providing money for Japanese ally Mitsubishi Motors. Daimler's board cut off additional financial support for Mitsubishi in April 2004. Schrempp, who once again defended his record as chief executive despite the billions lost in restructuring Chrysler and Mitsubishi, said that under his reign shareholders have received an total return of about 6 percent annually. Last week, Daimler said it will spend up to 1.2 billion euros in 2005 to revamp its ailing Smart car brand. .
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Martin Joseph 4 April 2005 22:11:04 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-04 09:42:02 -0700, "Rodney T. Grill" <rodney@grill.org> said: rsonally, I believe this is MBZ's biggest problem; that is, losing > quality control by relying too much on outsourced suppliers. There is no inherent problem in quality control due to outsourcing. It's a question of monitoring and testing all the process, systems and components that are outsourced. This is called quality assurance and is key regardless of who is making the components. I was invited to participate in a forum last week where M-Class owners > were interviewed for an MBZ video production to be used to train its > suppliers on why quality is important. I was quite surprised at some > of the questions I was asked as they definitely were soliciting > negative feedback. I guess it's a good sign that they realize there is > a problem. That is a good sign indeed. Still "blaming" other providers for YOUR quality problems isn't appropriate and still is worrisome. When you buy a system from someone else, it's ultimately your responsibility and your problem if there's something wrong with it... Marty
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Rodney T. Grill 4 April 2005 23:55:17 [ permanent link ]
	Howard Nelson wrote:> It will take years to undo the damage started with the M class quality> problems and then worsened with the C class cars. Don't even get me> started on recent S class problems. With BMW cornering (inadvertent> pun) the performance market and Lexus the price/value market all MBZ> has at this time is the fading luster of the 3 pointed star. Their> market at this time seems to be those for whom money is no object (S> class) and upscale wannabes (M and C class). Before the merger I> predicted Chrysler quality and MBZ design, sadly that has come to> pass. OK, so let me get this straight. You say the quality decline began with the M-Class and that you predicted quality would decline with the Chrysler buyout? So you must also have predicted the Chrysler buyout since the M-Class was designed and built before that? Or are you saying that quality got worse with the M-Class and then worse again with the Chrysler buyout? And by the way, why would MBZ buying Chrysler cause a decline in quality since? It's not as if they have used any technology, people or processes from Chrysler in MBZ - it's just recently been the other way around. -- - RODNEY
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Howard Nelson 5 April 2005 00:44:29 [ permanent link ]
	"Rodney T. Grill" <rodney@grill.org> wrote in message news:1112644529.e262279b6bd92d98a0bbf630cb3df613@teranews...> Howard Nelson wrote:> > It will take years to undo the damage started with the M class quality> > problems and then worsened with the C class cars. Don't even get me> > started on recent S class problems. With BMW cornering (inadvertent> > pun) the performance market and Lexus the price/value market all MBZ> > has at this time is the fading luster of the 3 pointed star. Their> > market at this time seems to be those for whom money is no object (S> > class) and upscale wannabes (M and C class). Before the merger I> > predicted Chrysler quality and MBZ design, sadly that has come to> > pass.> OK, so let me get this straight. You say the quality decline began with M-Class and that you predicted quality would decline with the Chrysler> buyout? So you must also have predicted the Chrysler buyout since the> M-Class was designed and built before that? Or are you saying that quality> got worse with the M-Class and then worse again with the Chrysler buyout?> And by the way, why would MBZ buying Chrysler cause a decline in quality> since? It's not as if they have used any technology, people or processes> from Chrysler in MBZ - it's just recently been the other way around.> -- > - RODNEY I guess my belief is that MBZ at some time decided to move more to the model of designing and selling to a price point rather than building the car within reasonable design constrains and selling it for a price within those constraints. Most auto makers organize their business model around the price point now and MBZ probably needed to do it in order to survive. They just don't seem to do it as well as the competition. But whatever. MBZ quality is what it is. And the market will decide. Howard
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Guest 5 April 2005 01:00:36 [ permanent link ]
	But, have they used product? I mean, just look at the new R-Class comming out. It smacks of Chrysler Pacifica. I am sure Mercedes will not use a Chrysler engine, would they?
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Martin Joseph 5 April 2005 10:44:09 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-04 14:00:36 -0700, thomcasey@gmail.com said: But, have they used product? I mean, just look at the new R-Class> comming out. It smacks of Chrysler Pacifica. I am sure Mercedes will> not use a Chrysler engine, would they? Why not? A significant problem for mercedes quality is probably the blind ignorance of mercedes customers. This has allowed mercedes to make inferior quality products and sell them at a premium price. Chrysler cars are actually of decent build quality these days, and they certainly could make an engine for future mercedes cars. Marty
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Uncle Vinnie 5 April 2005 15:55:53 [ permanent link ]
	My Story: I own a 97 E320, bought new, touted by Consumers, et al, as 'recommended, above average reliability'. One article touted it as nearly perfect.... In time, we all know that has been incredibly wrong. Last year alone, I put nearly $8,000 in repairs: Tranny electronics (o ring went bad and a 't' fluid leak fried the electronics, also AC condenser went). My purchase was based on having the car for the long haul. Street value on this car is poor- however this is my mistake, no one else to blame. BTW, I no longer use MB service- my mechanic is an ex MB tech and only works on MB. Anyone that buys one NOW, that's another story. Lease it, enjoy it, and walk away from it. Don't look back. Same goes for my 98 ML320- (Hey, Rodney!). Rated great at first but over time, unreliable even with the Star Mark Warranty. Last month differential... Every month brings with it something new with one car or the other. My 02: Shremmp's comments might ring true in terms of how well he's done for the stock holders, but that's got to catch up. He ought to approach the disgruntled customers he's screwed and offer some assistance in terms of discounted service or a discount towards a new MB. Wouldn't that show some good faith to his customers to win back some loyalty as well as possible new customers? Once again, time will tell if it turns into either another Audi 5000.... "Martin Joseph" <mercedes@barknaturalpet.com> wrote in message news:2005040423440916807%mercedes@barknaturalpetcom...> On 2005-04-04 14:00:36 -0700, thomcasey@gmail.com said:> But, have they used product? I mean, just look at the new R-Class>> comming out. It smacks of Chrysler Pacifica. I am sure Mercedes will>> not use a Chrysler engine, would they?> Why not?> A significant problem for mercedes quality is probably the blind ignorance > of mercedes customers. This has allowed mercedes to make inferior quality > products and sell them at a premium price.> Chrysler cars are actually of decent build quality these days, and they > certainly could make an engine for future mercedes cars.> Marty>
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Rodney T. Grill 6 April 2005 01:22:56 [ permanent link ]
	Uncle Vinnie wrote:> We bought the E at lease end because we loved it as well.. in the> case of this car, was it the condenser/evaporator? The part behind> the glove compartment, a know problem. That's the evaporator, and yes, it sounds familiar as that having been a common problem. The tranny problem is> something else... an 'o' ring failed, fluid dripped into the control> box.. (something along those lines)....computer problems, etc. I'm, not aware of this being a common problem. As unfortunate as it is, O-rings do fail sometimes. I would not consider that any sort of symptom of chronic quality problems. I would, however, consider the evaporator problem to be one. With the ML, the differential was whining and had to be replaced as> well as ball joints, some other part that is part of the drive shaft> which is supposed to turn.. etc.. I think what they replaced was the center differential, which was a known problem in early ML's. It was designed to provide a 50/50 torque split, which caused some noise and vibration, so it was revised for a 48/52 (or thereabouts) torque split. Rear ball joints were also a known issue. I am surprised your ML went 80K miles with these issues not having been resolved. These normally appeared well before the original 50K mile warranty. The drive shaft problem is likely either the hanger bearing or universal joints, both of which are going to fail during the life of the vehicle, although 80K miles is a bit soon (I'd expect at least 100K miles of service from them). I've had Volvo's (740's, 240's, 245's) as well as a Subaru GL, these> 4 cars ran great with few, if any problems, other than brakes,> regular maint., etc... all to about 150,000 miles - and 10+ years.....> These cars are at about 80k... it's not small stuff, it's major stuff> that goes wrong. I have friends that have older MB's and none have> the trouble I've had. They just don't have the "right" models. Older MBZ's were plagued with different problems. Door closers failing on the "S" models, vacuum leaks on the diesels, steering problems, suspension and rust problems. It just depends on the model. It's a combination of new models along with> late 90's vehicles, that seem to have hammered their reputation...> it's sad, especially when you look down the driveway, like I do... I agree, but just in case you think is just MBZ, go take a visit on the BMW, Audi, or even the Lexus boards. All you hear about are problems! Why? Because you can only talk about how great your car is for so long before it gets boring! it's more interesting to talk about problems and how to solve them. -- - RODNEY
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Martin Joseph 6 April 2005 21:43:42 [ permanent link ]
	On 2005-04-05 14:22:56 -0700, "Rodney T. Grill" <rodney@grill.org> said: e tranny problem is>> something else... an 'o' ring failed, fluid dripped into the control>> box.. (something along those lines)....computer problems, etc.> I'm, not aware of this being a common problem. As unfortunate as it > is, O-rings do fail sometimes. I would not consider that any sort of > symptom of chronic quality problems. I would, however, consider the > evaporator problem to be one. SInce o rings do fail, as you say, if this caused a leak into a control box, which broke something else, then this is a design issue... Marty
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CarGuru > Mercedes > Stupid Suppliers! 6 April 2005 21:43:42

	see also: ARCA: Kentucky II: Race report MOTOGP: German GP: Friday combined… IPS: Nashville: Panther Racing Friday…		pass tests:		see also: ha ha ha... loh mlya....da, da... i... ............................... /////////////////////////////

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