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HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
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CarGuru > Jeep Willys > HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5 7 March 2005 01:13:54
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HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5

Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 00:59:54
 Mike found the relay, got the starter, and alt back in,
went back to schucks,
another test, the alt is O.k. but im NOT charging my batt,
the
RED- wire on the plug, checks out O.K.
the
Brown-wire checks out O.K.
the RED- wire on the back of the alt checks out O.K.
,
what for crimminies sake can be stopping the alt from charging the
batt??
where do i go next,??

how do i track it,
GAWD im in electrical hell,
and its killing my new batt.

425-346-9210 if anybody wants to help me,

johnpeeeeeeDooofff

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 01:47:39 [ permanent link ]
 im gonna read your post again, in a minute,
continuity test,---
nut on relay-to-red on back of alt---beep,
nut on relay-to-red on pos. batt---beep,
nut on relay-to-ground/fra­me--beep,
,
johnp
explain??

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 01:47:44 [ permanent link ]
 im gonna read your post again, in a minute,
continuity test,---
nut on relay-to-red on back of alt---beep,
nut on relay-to-red on pos. batt---beep,
nut on relay-to-ground/fra­me--beep,
,
johnp
explain??

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 02:10:04 [ permanent link ]
 Will
but will that couse the "nut" on the relay to give a Beep on a test to
ground?
isnt that nut isolated from ground?
im about to jump around my links, to try it,
as im getting a beep from all my wires,
so if the fuse-link was toast it shouldent beep,,right,,,i think,,,

gawd,,,

johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 02:13:30 [ permanent link ]
 from my chilton book, ive got two red wires, to a fusable link,
comming out to a brown wire onto the relay bolt.
these are the ones ive tested, they beep.

johnp

Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 03:15:26 [ permanent link ]
 I wish you would quote who you are answering....

Do you get a beep from the battery positive to the alternator post?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
from my chilton book, ive got two red wires, to a fusable link,> comming out to a brown wire onto the relay bolt.> these are the ones ive tested, they beep.>
johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 03:45:51 [ permanent link ]
 wish you would quote who you are answering....


Do you get a beep from the battery positive to the alternator post?

Mike,
yes i get a beep from batt + to alt post.

could it be tied in with PCM???
,
johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 03:49:53 [ permanent link ]
 Why am i getting a beep from relay-post to ground??
there shouldent be a beep there should there?

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 03:51:32 [ permanent link ]
 i just got back from the JEEP dealer,
85 bucks an hr to "try" and figure it out,
i dont have that type of cash my wife would burn the jeep. then me.

Add comment
L . W . Hughes III 6 March 2005 04:06:35 [ permanent link ]
 It kind of sounds like you're using a continuity tester, that'll
ping just going through my body from my right hand to left. Use
something that must burn a bulb in it. And a volt meter that will tell
you if your ignition switch is powering the Sator.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Dirty Ditch Dog wrote:>
wish you would quote who you are answering....>
Do you get a beep from the battery positive to the alternator post?>
Mike,> yes i get a beep from batt + to alt post.>
could it be tied in with PCM???> ,> johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 04:45:25 [ permanent link ]
 It kind of sounds like you're using a continuity tester, that'll
ping just going through my body from my right hand to left. Use
something that must burn a bulb in it. And a volt meter that will tell
you if your ignition switch is powering the Sator.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes...@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Bill your right,
here goes again,
batt-neg--to relay post,,12.7V
batt-neg--to alt post 12.6V
Batt neg--to red wire on ALT plug 12.6V
Batt pos--to brn wire on Alt plug 12.6V

ignition key in the off position.

johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 04:46:45 [ permanent link ]
 you if your ignition switch is powering the Sator.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes...@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es

Bill, sorry for my ignorance,
Whats a SATOR ??

johnp

Add comment
L . W . Hughes III 6 March 2005 05:31:25 [ permanent link ]
 Stator, I miss spelled again. It's the part in an alternator we
charge to make the alternator generate electricity. located on what we
would have called an armature, but now has changed positions with the
field, that was a part of the housing of an old generator. The line
charging it is switched at from ignition switch, so naturally it's only
hot with ignition, on.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Bill, sorry for my ignorance,> Whats a SATOR ??>
johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 05:35:23 [ permanent link ]
 O.K. so is that the other wire on the plug going into the
alternator(brown)
how do i test it?
,
johnp

Add comment
L . W . Hughes III 6 March 2005 05:51:02 [ permanent link ]
 Disconnect that brown wire and see if it is cold until the ignition
is switched on then it should battery voltage.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
O.K. so is that the other wire on the plug going into the> alternator(brown)> how do i test it?> ,> johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 06:08:46 [ permanent link ]
 Bill,
key off, no juice through brown wire going to alternator plug,
key-ON 12.5V going through wire,

,
help,,,,,,,,,

johnp

Add comment
L . W . Hughes III 6 March 2005 06:17:10 [ permanent link ]
 Then if the alternator's good there will at least fourteen volts
coming out it's battery connection, while idling.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Bill,> key off, no juice through brown wire going to alternator plug,> key-ON 12.5V going through wire,>
,> help,,,,,,,,,>
johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 07:11:54 [ permanent link ]
 before starting checked batt, 12V
unhooked red cable on back of altinator,
placed meter on post on back side of altinator,
other line on pos of batt, 11.8V,
started jeep,
numbers moved down to 4.0 then jumped moving up to 20.0 vots, as we
brought idle up to 2500rpm,
back down to idle, meter read 11.5V
,
johnp

Add comment
L . W . Hughes III 6 March 2005 07:27:16 [ permanent link ]
 Interesting there should be no reading at all between alternator
battery connection and the battery positive terminal, they are the same.
The test is hooking the volt meter from alternator battery connection to
ground.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
before starting checked batt, 12V> unhooked red cable on back of altinator,> placed meter on post on back side of altinator,> other line on pos of batt, 11.8V,> started jeep,> numbers moved down to 4.0 then jumped moving up to 20.0 vots, as we> brought idle up to 2500rpm,> back down to idle, meter read 11.5V> ,> johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 07:30:32 [ permanent link ]
 when i hook up to the back post on the alternator, and then to ground,
the numbers are all over the chart,
up and down all the way up to 35, and down to 4

gawd,
im going crazy,

johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 18:27:13 [ permanent link ]
 Whats the "technical" term for the relay on the firewall, (where my
batt/starter
fusable links bolt to.)
or a part number,

shucks didnt have it in there computer or any of there
books,,,awww-schuck­s,,,,

im going to Napa today to get fusable links and the relay to replace
mine,

from what your all telling me its in there, so frig it,,, its all
getting replaced.



MIKE, BILL, WILL,
a BIG thank you for all your help here,

johnp

Add comment


Mike Romain 6 March 2005 18:47:14 [ permanent link ]
 Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
It kind of sounds like you're using a continuity tester, that'll> ping just going through my body from my right hand to left. Use> something that must burn a bulb in it. And a volt meter that will tell> you if your ignition switch is powering the Sator.> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O> mailto:LWHughes...@­aol.com http://www.billhugh­es.com/>
Bill your right,> here goes again,> batt-neg--to relay post,,12.7V> batt-neg--to alt post 12.6V> Batt neg--to red wire on ALT plug 12.6V> Batt pos--to brn wire on Alt plug 12.6V>
ignition key in the off position.>
johnp

You have a very bad connection between the battery positive post and the
alternator positive post. That 0.1V drop is 'huge' when it comes to
power loss and the alternator could be going insane trying to bridge the
bad connection.

99% of the time that bad connection is at the starter relay as your volt
drop readings indicate.

You still have a 'real' alternator in there, so the PCM isn't an issue.

First you need to clean the connections, then try the volt reading when
running again and everything plugged in properly.

When my starter relay connection gets punky, my volts start climbing
high before taking a dive when it gets too bad for the alternator to
bypass.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 19:09:07 [ permanent link ]
 Man you just have one freaking dirty connection on the relay post. Take
the wires off and clean them!

They call the thing the starter solenoid relay, but it's just dirty or
the engine wouldn't start. A new one will not help because the wire
loop connection is still dirty.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Whats the "technical" term for the relay on the firewall, (where my> batt/starter> fusable links bolt to.)> or a part number,>
shucks didnt have it in there computer or any of there> books,,,awww-schuck­s,,,,>
im going to Napa today to get fusable links and the relay to replace> mine,>
from what your all telling me its in there, so frig it,,, its all> getting replaced.>
MIKE, BILL, WILL,> a BIG thank you for all your help here,>
johnp
Add comment


Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 19:25:59 [ permanent link ]
 O.K. im gonna go clean it again, be back in 20.

johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 20:05:13 [ permanent link ]
 Mike,
re-cleaned all connectons, wire-brush, electrical cleaner, sandpaper,
electrical cleaner, whiped with rag,
reconnected all wires, to relay and alt,

re-tested, with volt-meter,

Batt engin off,
12.49V
-Batt-to-Relay,12.4­9V
-Batt-to-post on back of Alt,12.49V

Running at idle speed,

Batt 12.25V
-Batt-to-Relay,12.2­4V
-Batt-to post on back of Alt,12.24

johnp

Add comment


Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 20:15:01 [ permanent link ]
 Mike,
engine off,
12.54V batt neg to pos
12.54V batt neg to relay
12.54V batt neg to alt post
12.32V alt post to alt case

GRRRRRRRRRRR

johnp

Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 20:17:33 [ permanent link ]
 Ok, the alternator is not turning on.

The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire should/could
be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
have 10 volts at least.

I think you said it had power right?

If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
running. (stuck brushes syndrome)

If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can hand
slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.

The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
alternator...

The pricks changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.

They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend the
clip back up to hold good again.

Check that out and get back to us please.

Mike

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Mike,> re-cleaned all connectons, wire-brush, electrical cleaner, sandpaper,> electrical cleaner, whiped with rag,> reconnected all wires, to relay and alt,>
re-tested, with volt-meter,>
Batt engin off,> 12.49V> -Batt-to-Relay,12.4­9V> -Batt-to-post on back of Alt,12.49V>
Running at idle speed,>
Batt 12.25V> -Batt-to-Relay,12.2­4V> -Batt-to post on back of Alt,12.24>
johnp
Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 20:20:11 [ permanent link ]
 That says the ground is also dirty.

Try from alternator case to battery positive and walk it back until it
comes up the same. Meter pin on the case, the bracket, the block, the
bolt, the black ground wire, the battery.

Mike

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Mike,> engine off,> 12.54V batt neg to pos> 12.54V batt neg to relay> 12.54V batt neg to alt post> 12.32V alt post to alt case>
GRRRRRRRRRRR>
johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 20:21:43 [ permanent link ]
 Engine running,
alt-post to alt case, 1.1V
alt-post to jeep frame 12.2

johnp

Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 20:32:09 [ permanent link ]
 Alternator is not turning on. See my other post.

Mike

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Engine running,> alt-post to alt case, 1.1V> alt-post to jeep frame 12.2>
johnp
Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 20:36:33 [ permanent link ]
 I just checked on mine and the brown wire goes to pin #1 on the
alternator case.

Mike

Mike Romain wrote:>
Ok, the alternator is not turning on.>
The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire should/could> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must> have 10 volts at least.>
I think you said it had power right?>
If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)>
If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can hand> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.>
The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the> alternator...>
The pricks changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.>
They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend the> clip back up to hold good again.>
Check that out and get back to us please.>
Mike>
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:> >
Mike,> > re-cleaned all connectons, wire-brush, electrical cleaner, sandpaper,> > electrical cleaner, whiped with rag,> > reconnected all wires, to relay and alt,> >
re-tested, with volt-meter,> >
Batt engin off,> > 12.49V> > -Batt-to-Relay,12.4­9V> > -Batt-to-post on back of Alt,12.49V> >
Running at idle speed,> >
Batt 12.25V> > -Batt-to-Relay,12.2­4V> > -Batt-to post on back of Alt,12.24> >
johnp
Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 21:42:24 [ permanent link ]
 WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,

Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....


Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator

case and see if it turns on.


I have seen that happen twice.


Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.

SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,




johnp

Add comment
Dirty Ditch Dawg 6 March 2005 22:16:49 [ permanent link ]
 Mike,
ive taken the cables all the way off,
stopped the motor,
re-started,
and its now charging,
,
but i will still do as youve said,
theres gotta be something, keeping it from getting a ground,

johnp

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP, and Patience,
nice to know us handicapped folks have people like you to help us out

Add comment
Mike Romain 6 March 2005 22:26:25 [ permanent link ]
 You are welcome.

You should beef up the ground, it lost it and managed to jump it again
by arcing somewhere but it won't last or allow all the power to pass.

Mike

Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:>
Mike,> ive taken the cables all the way off,> stopped the motor,> re-started,> and its now charging,> ,> but i will still do as youve said,> theres gotta be something, keeping it from getting a ground,>
johnp>
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP, and Patience,> nice to know us handicapped folks have people like you to help us out
Add comment
 

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CarGuru > Jeep Willys > HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5 7 March 2005 01:13:54
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