Re: cv boot or cv joint

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CarGuru > Honda > Re: cv boot or cv joint 17 March 2005 09:24:08

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Re: cv boot or cv joint
Rynniki 17 March 2005 16:13:50
	alright guys wish me luck,its getting fixed today i will let you all know how it went.
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Michael Pardee 15 March 2005 03:20:37 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:a7f3d44aec851a62446af50aff038171@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> My hus band went and got new tire and they said we need a new cv boot. How> much do they cost and how much would it be to get the joint and boot> together? Also on the paper it says R&I Axle Shaft what does that mean.> It's Pepboys where we got the tires so I don't know how well they do> working on cars other than tires> If the torn boot was discovered in the process of replacing the tire, chances are the lubrication in the CV joint is bad and the joint itself may already be on the way out. Most shops won't replace just the boot (split boots are available for DIYers) because the joint is too likely to go bad, and guess who pays then? Replacement of the axle is usually the way to go. It is a tough DIY job without air tools because of the tight axle nut and the *$^&! taper pin on the ball joint. Prices of parts and labor vary widely. When I was lazy and farmed out the axle replacement on my daughter's '93 Accord, Honda wanted $300 parts and labor. I got the replacement part at NAPA for about $90 and took it to an independent who quoted me $68 labor (I wouldn't do it for that little, air tools or no!). Unfortunately the independent also tacked on a 4-wheel alignment for $40. An alignment is not needed when replacing the axle. Phooey. Now I do it myself. Mike
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Rynniki 15 March 2005 16:00:12 [ permanent link ]
	Thanks for the advise. I have a good mechanic who told me he could replace the axle for $190.00 including labor. The thing is we bought the car 2 years ago used but we knew the owner and they gave us all the maintaince paperwork and the axles were just replaced right befire we bought the car in 2003 the car had 115,530 miles on it then and its only got 121,171 miles on it now whuy would it be bad already?
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Michael Pardee 15 March 2005 16:59:47 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:876543023fb0e54f6bc91055129dd85c@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> Thanks for the advise. I have a good mechanic who told me he could replace> the axle for $190.00 including labor. The thing is we bought the car 2> years ago used but we knew the owner and they gave us all the maintaince> paperwork and the axles were just replaced right befire we bought the car> in 2003 the car had 115,530 miles on it then and its only got 121,171> miles on it now whuy would it be bad already?> In that case, it is worth a quick peek yourself to be sure Pep Boys was giving you the straight scoop. The boots should last 5 years in a hot climate or 10 years in a cool climate. Bad CV joint boots are very obvious. If you look under the car, where the axles are a couple inches away from the wheels, you will see a large black bellows-like rubber covering over the end of the axle. That is the boot, and the outer CV joint is inside. (The outer boots almost always go before the inner ones because they have to put up with the steering.) When they fail, they tear at the bottom of one of the corrugations with the tear extending a few inches at first and quickly extending most or all the way around the axle. Large amounts of black grease are thrown out of the tear and the grease is slung around the whole area. $190 is a good price for parts & labor. Mike
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Rynniki 15 March 2005 18:54:48 [ permanent link ]
	The price $190 is only for one is that still a good price?
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Michael Pardee 16 March 2005 04:15:37 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:6f688e380a8f49fb865889783999d957@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> The price $190 is only for one is that still a good price?> 'Fraid so. The part is about half that amount at the chain parts stores, and $100 is a decent price for the work involved. It isn't a huge amount of work, but it is still a bit of a chore even with a lift and the proper tools. Since they were both apparently new only a couple years ago I wouldn't recommend doing both sides. Normally it is better to bite the bullet and do both since the other should be about ready to rip, but in your case the mystery is why this one tore at all. (It's all about age and heat - I've never heard of any being torn by road debris... although I suppose it could happen.) BTW - have the mechanic look the brake rotor over when he is in there. I don't know about your car, but my daughter's '93 Accord is made so replacing the brake rotor takes 90% of the work to replace the axle. If that's the case and the rotor is headed for replacement soon, better to do it at the same time. Mike
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WaterWatcher 16 March 2005 09:00:28 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:6f688e380a8f49fb865889783999d957@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> The price $190 is only for one is that still a good price? I don't know what car you have but on a '95 Accord the dealer charged me $290 to do one and my mechanic charged me $145 to do the other. I replaced my own on a '90 Civic and it wasn't a tough job other than I had to do the right one four times due to crappy parts. I do have rust free cars, though, so they come apart relatively easily. WW
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Rynniki 16 March 2005 16:09:09 [ permanent link ]
	Thanks guys,I am getting it fixed tomorrow but before my mechanic orders anything he is going to look just to make sure pepboys is rght about it needing to be fixed,because you never know with them,also like he said they could of just repacked the old one and said its new.
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Michael Pardee 16 March 2005 16:36:05 [ permanent link ]
	"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in message news:2u-dnXeLmbnwIKrfRVn-rg@comcast.com...> "rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message > news:6f688e380a8f49fb865889783999d957@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...>> The price $190 is only for one is that still a good price?> I don't know what car you have but on a '95 Accord the dealer charged me > $290 to do one and my mechanic charged me $145 to do the other. I > replaced my own on a '90 Civic and it wasn't a tough job other than I had > to do the right one four times due to crappy parts. I do have rust free > cars, though, so they come apart relatively easily.> I've recently done one on a '93 Accord (and then had to do rotors on both sides, which is essentially the same job... curse me) and both on a '94 Integra. The tough parts are the same on both - unstake the dog on the axle nut and get the axle nut off (easy with air tools, a devil with hand tools) and separate the taper pin on the lower ball joint (tough to do without tearing the ball joint boot even with air tools, unless you have "the touch"). The first one I ever did was on a Dodge that was a maintenance nightmare, but the axle was easy. There was no taper pin on the ball joint, just a straight pin with a pinch clamp. I think most of the dealer price is the part - you know they aren't using a rebuilt from the local parts store. Mike
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Rynniki 16 March 2005 19:42:56 [ permanent link ]
	Hey guys i need one more thing,how much is a wheel bearing and wheel hub , i am trying to figure how much money i need.i just looked at the axles the one is completely leaking grease all over my wheel and i am afraid that it ruined my bearing or hub,and the other one is cracking so i dont know why after 2 years they are already going bad,my mechanic said they might of painted them and said they were replaced.
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Rynniki 17 March 2005 05:58:58 [ permanent link ]
	wonder why they told me they hope my hub or bearing isnt bad because of the grease leaking from the boot
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Michael Pardee 17 March 2005 07:40:08 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:9582377de60bb3b9f18a123c2f3ccbf0@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> wonder why they told me they hope my hub or bearing isnt bad because of > the> grease leaking from the boot> Well, I hope they aren't bad, either But I'm certain they aren't. I've seen a bunch of bad CV joint boots but I've never even seen the grease get on the brake disc, much less damage the hub. Don't worry about it. Maybe they have seen a hub that was damaged when the axle was replaced and the axle nut not torqued enough afterward. (The fit doesn't slack off when the axle fails - it has to be when it is disassembled.) The guilty mechanic may have tried to pass off the damage to the hub as being from the axle, but what happens is that the spline fit of the axle to the hub starts wallowing out if the nut isn't properly torqued... proper torque is somewhere over 100 ft-lbs; very tight. If so, that mechanic deserves coal in his stocking (why wait 'til Christmas for that?) for not owning up to his mistake. The failure shows up initially as creaking from the wheel, progressing to loss of drive as the axle starts spinning in the hub. The only fix then is to replace both parts. Mike
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WaterWatcher 17 March 2005 09:24:08 [ permanent link ]
	"> I've recently done one on a '93 Accord (and then had to do rotors on both> sides, which is essentially the same job... curse me) and both on a '94 > Integra. The tough parts are the same on both - unstake the dog on the > axle nut and get the axle nut off (easy with air tools, a devil with hand > tools) and separate the taper pin on the lower ball joint (tough to do > without tearing the ball joint boot even with air tools, unless you have > "the touch"). The "touch" with the ball joint is using a big hammer on it. Just hit it on the front after loosening the bolt a few turns. I was leery of doing this until a mechanic at my dealer told me he did them this way. If the dealer tech does it, it should be OK for a DIY job. Since the ball joint stud is tapered, hitting the part it goes through causes it to pop out. At least it did for me. Also, I had no problem with the axle nut on my Civic using a cheater bar on a 1/2" ratchet. YMMV. WW
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Michael Pardee 17 March 2005 16:25:00 [ permanent link ]
	"WaterWatcher" <replytogroup@donotmail.com> wrote in message news:VoOdnXeTA8PliaTfRVn-qg@comcast.com...> "> I've recently done one on a '93 Accord (and then had to do rotors on > both>> sides, which is essentially the same job... curse me) and both on a '94 >> Integra. The tough parts are the same on both - unstake the dog on the >> axle nut and get the axle nut off (easy with air tools, a devil with hand >> tools) and separate the taper pin on the lower ball joint (tough to do >> without tearing the ball joint boot even with air tools, unless you have >> "the touch").> The "touch" with the ball joint is using a big hammer on it. Just hit it > on the front after loosening the bolt a few turns. I was leery of doing > this until a mechanic at my dealer told me he did them this way. If the > dealer tech does it, it should be OK for a DIY job. Since the ball joint > stud is tapered, hitting the part it goes through causes it to pop out. > At least it did for me. Also, I had no problem with the axle nut on my > Civic using a cheater bar on a 1/2" ratchet. YMMV.> I didn't see room to swing a hammer in a direction that would do any good, but I tried an air hammer with a 4 lb hammer as an anvil. No joy. Eventually I used an air chisel as a pickle fork type wedge on the area where the two pieces overlapped beside the ball joint boot and that got it. The impact wrench made the axle nut easy, especially after using the air chisel to unstake the nut Usually a humungous cheater bar will get the axle nut loose okay, but the first time it's done on a Honda can bring tears to your eyes. I swear the factory must put Superglue in all their threads. I suppose the tight nut is better than the alternatives. My older son's first car was an old Subaru that had the hub destruction I described to "rynniki". (That's how I knew so much about it!) The wheel creaked when we bought the car and it took a while to figure out what was going on. The axle nut didn't resist when we removed it, and the worn splines inside told the rest of the story. We tried greasing the splines to slow the destruction process but it didn't help much. Mike
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Jim Beam 17 March 2005 18:30:10 [ permanent link ]
	WaterWatcher wrote:> "> I've recently done one on a '93 Accord (and then had to do rotors on both> sides, which is essentially the same job... curse me) and both on a '94 >>Integra. The tough parts are the same on both - unstake the dog on the >>axle nut and get the axle nut off (easy with air tools, a devil with hand >>tools) and separate the taper pin on the lower ball joint (tough to do >>without tearing the ball joint boot even with air tools, unless you have >>"the touch").> The "touch" with the ball joint is using a big hammer on it. Just hit it on > the front after loosening the bolt a few turns. I was leery of doing this > until a mechanic at my dealer told me he did them this way. If the dealer > tech does it, it should be OK for a DIY job. Since the ball joint stud is > tapered, hitting the part it goes through causes it to pop out. At least it > did for me. Also, I had no problem with the axle nut on my Civic using a > cheater bar on a 1/2" ratchet. YMMV.> WW in my experience, that's pretty lucky, particularly for vehicles that have been anywhere near the rust belt. the only 100% reliable way to seperate the ball joint without damaging anything is to use a tool like this: http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6556 this design is like the honda factory recommended tool and /completely/ reliable. the price of the tool is small compared to the cost of sweating & swearing, then resorting to "methods" that cause damage and still may not work.
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TeGGer® 17 March 2005 19:14:48 [ permanent link ]
	jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:1111069814.308af121deb027854857b7c817844313@teranews: http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6556> this design is like the honda factory recommended tool and> /completely/ reliable. the price of the tool is small compared to the> cost of sweating & swearing, then resorting to "methods" that cause> damage and still may not work.> Wonderful link!! It's such an easy addition that I've already put it into the FAQ. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#balljoints As far as I'm concerned, the price of $48 US is peanuts for something that makes a super-ugly job an easy one. Thanks. And just in case anyone ends up searching this in Google Groups, the tool information is: Ball Joint Separator OTC6297 about $48US Owatonna Tool Co. 655 Eisenhower Drive Owatonna, MN 55060 800-533-6127 \| 507-455-7000 International Sales: 507-455-7223 Fax: 507-455-7451 www.otctools.com -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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Michael Pardee 17 March 2005 22:35:53 [ permanent link ]
	"TeGGer®" <tegger@istop.c0m> wrote in message news:Xns961C680CB8B25tegger@207.14.113.17...> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in> news:1111069814.308af121deb027854857b7c817844313@teranews:> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6556>> this design is like the honda factory recommended tool and>> /completely/ reliable. the price of the tool is small compared to the>> cost of sweating & swearing, then resorting to "methods" that cause>> damage and still may not work.>> Wonderful link!! It's such an easy addition that I've already put it into> the FAQ.> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#balljoints> As far as I'm concerned, the price of $48 US is peanuts for something that> makes a super-ugly job an easy one.> Thanks.> Oh, yeah! $48 sounds like a lot for a special-purpose tool... until you are trying to separate the durned thing without it! Then it starts sounding real cheap. Mike
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Michael Pardee 18 March 2005 07:21:41 [ permanent link ]
	"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:1111069814.308af121deb027854857b7c817844313@teranews...> in my experience, that's pretty lucky, particularly for vehicles that have > been anywhere near the rust belt. the only 100% reliable way to seperate > the ball joint without damaging anything is to use a tool like this:> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6556> this design is like the honda factory recommended tool and /completely/ > reliable. the price of the tool is small compared to the cost of sweating > & swearing, then resorting to "methods" that cause damage and still may > not work.> Thanks a million for the link! I ordered one tonight so I won't suffer as much the next time (I think my Volvo is next... something is loose in the right front). One thing I like about it is that even if the leverage can't quite convince the taper pin to let go, I can leave it in place and holding pressure while I rap on the side of the receptacle with the air hammer to upset the fit. It also has a relieved area for the boot, eliminating the worry about tearing the boot. I completely agree about the worry of causing damage and still failing - the twin terrors of auto repair. Mike
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Rynniki 18 March 2005 16:15:10 [ permanent link ]
	Well here is the outcome,they suspected the axles that were supposed to be only 2 years were never changed,i needed new bearings,new rotors,2 axles,the final cost with oil change and oil plug and washer was 1100.00 and he only charged me 250 for labor,he is a great guy he looks out for me,and also he showed me everything that was wrong before he ordered everything,he has helped me out in the past before for hardly anything,but at least i have everything new.
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Michael Pardee 18 March 2005 16:26:25 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:2f68cee23e05ec14954ebc28e81d0172@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> Well here is the outcome,they suspected the axles that were supposed to be> only 2 years were never changed,i needed new bearings,new rotors,2> axles,the final cost with oil change and oil plug and washer was 1100.00> and he only charged me 250 for labor,he is a great guy he looks out for> me,and also he showed me everything that was wrong before he ordered> everything,he has helped me out in the past before for hardly anything,but> at least i have everything new.> Glad to hear of the good outcome, sad to hear the axles weren't changed to start with. Grr! You are ahead of the game now (even $1100 poorer - you'll recover from that long before you have to go through that again). I know the rotors and bearings are fairly expensive, but getting those done while everything is apart saves paying for labor a second time. Mike
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Jim Beam 18 March 2005 18:09:51 [ permanent link ]
	Michael Pardee wrote:> "rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message > news:2f68cee23e05ec14954ebc28e81d0172@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> Well here is the outcome,they suspected the axles that were supposed to be>>only 2 years were never changed,i needed new bearings,new rotors,2>>axles,the final cost with oil change and oil plug and washer was 1100.00>>and he only charged me 250 for labor,he is a great guy he looks out for>>me,and also he showed me everything that was wrong before he ordered>>everything,he has helped me out in the past before for hardly anything,but>>at least i have everything new.>> Glad to hear of the good outcome, sad to hear the axles weren't changed to > start with. Grr!> You are ahead of the game now (even $1100 poorer - you'll recover from that > long before you have to go through that again). I know the rotors and > bearings are fairly expensive, but getting those done while everything is > apart saves paying for labor a second time.> Mike hmm, i guess you can say it's good that they'll not have to do this again, but at the risk of sounding like a whiner, honestly, how many hondas do you know that genuinely need /two/ new bearings plus rotors at only 120k? this is not a ford. $1100? bearings are $60 each, less if you go to the bearing store. rotors about $50 each. decent quality driveshafts are about $120 each. plus $250 labor, i still only make that a $710 job, and i think about $220 of that is unnecessary.
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Guest 19 March 2005 05:16:14 [ permanent link ]
	I had one go out at around 100K and the other around 130K. Its easy to see it, just look under the car and look at the drive mechanism that goes to the wheels. The rubber boot will be split. A symptom is hearing a clicking noise when you go through a tight turn. As I recall I paid either $200 or $300 per boot. You replace it with a rebuilt one. Supposedly you can just replace the rubber but that requires more labor to take it all apart - so rebuilt ones seem like a logical approach.
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Rynniki 19 March 2005 15:55:59 [ permanent link ]
	sorry. no the car has never been in an accident.i got her back last night,so far so good ,but i do have a question about abs brakes i think thats what i have,to me the brakes feel soft ,i dont remember them feeling this way,maybe cause i havent driven it in 2 days,but do brakes feel funny after new rotors? i dont want to spend anymore money
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Michael Pardee 19 March 2005 16:57:38 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:281c44d0dbdc7bdbacf9c5dee8612088@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> sorry. no the car has never been in an accident.i got her back last> night,so far so good ,but i do have a question about abs brakes i think> thats what i have,to me the brakes feel soft ,i dont remember them feeling> this way,maybe cause i havent driven it in 2 days,but do brakes feel funny> after new rotors? i dont want to spend anymore money> No - they should feel about the way they did before. Time for a trip back to the mechanic. A good mechanic welcomes the chance to take another look at the work he's done if there might be a problem, and looking at the calipers he had to move out of the way is easy for him. The last time this happened to me was because I took the caliper off and the pads out to deglaze them, then reassembled without relubricating the slide pins. (That's probably what your mechanic did, since it would be a reasonable place to draw the line as to how much to check - the brakes are easy to get to and touching them any more than he had to risked stirring up the evil spirits.) One slide pin was rusted solid and when I reassembled the brakes that side never grabbed - the pedal was soft and I could turn that wheel by hand when the brakes were all the way down! If you use your best conciliatory manner you may get this as a freebie even though it probably wasn't strictly speaking his fault. It sounds like he's been working with you to keep the labor down so far. Best of luck! Mike Mike
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Rynniki 20 March 2005 00:29:24 [ permanent link ]
	i went back this morning he readjusted the rear brakes beacuse the front was fine ,and the guy who usually works on the car said they were fine,i think its because i forgot how they felt cause i havent driven in 2 days
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Rynniki 20 March 2005 16:26:49 [ permanent link ]
	how much are brakes usually? and how about a master cylinder if i ever need one?
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Michael Pardee 20 March 2005 17:50:55 [ permanent link ]
	"rynniki" <rynniki@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:58cf20a09fd60f14bc0d0984daafc91c@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> how much are brakes usually? and how about a master cylinder if i ever > need> one?> Roughly, new "linings" (the friction parts that wear out, pads for disk brakes and shoes for drum brakes) are about $100 parts and labor for each axle; that is, that much for the front and that much for the back. The front wears faster than the rear because it does more of the work in stopping the car (the weight shifts forward when braking). Figure about the same for the master cylinder. The master cylinder usually is left alone until it starts acting up - usually the pedal gets soft or sinks when you are stopped. Most brake shops will do free brake inspections in hopes of getting the job if something is bad, and that can be a good way of making sure the brake linings don't wear out completely. When they do, you get metal to metal contact and the rotors or (in the rear axle) drums are damaged. Drums screech when the shoes wear out that far, while disk brakes make an unmistakable grinding sound when you step on the pedal. Now that you have new rotors (disks) in the front, you definitely don't want to wait for the last minute to replace the linings (like you'd want to otherwise... not!). When the friction material gets down to about 1/8 inch it's time to get new ones. 1/16th inch is really pressing your luck. The mechanic who did the front axles can give you an estimate of how soon you should have the brakes rechecked for wear. I'm sure it won't be soon or he would have recommended new pads while he had it apart. Mike
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Michael Pardee 25 March 2005 03:00:00 [ permanent link ]
	"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:ttOdnbaxgPDU1KffRVn-2w@sedona.net...> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:1111069814.308af121deb027854857b7c817844313@teranews...>> in my experience, that's pretty lucky, particularly for vehicles that >> have been anywhere near the rust belt. the only 100% reliable way to >> seperate the ball joint without damaging anything is to use a tool like >> this:>> http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6556>> this design is like the honda factory recommended tool and /completely/ >> reliable. the price of the tool is small compared to the cost of >> sweating & swearing, then resorting to "methods" that cause damage and >> still may not work.>> Thanks a million for the link! I ordered one tonight so I won't suffer as > much the next time (I think my Volvo is next... something is loose in the > right front). One thing I like about it is that even if the leverage can't > quite convince the taper pin to let go, I can leave it in place and > holding pressure while I rap on the side of the receptacle with the air > hammer to upset the fit. It also has a relieved area for the boot, > eliminating the worry about tearing the boot.> The tool arrived today, and it looks good to me. The threads are stout and a good fit, the metal is heavy and the adaptability looks good. I have to investigate shaking in the right front of my old Volvo soon - I'll give this a try if the occasion comes up. Mike
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CarGuru > Honda > Re: cv boot or cv joint 17 March 2005 09:24:08

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Re: cv boot or cv joint

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