"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>
Well, one thing I have to agree about: Why buy a GM truck rebadged as an ISUZU? What's the point of that? Has anyone ever always wanted an Isuzu so bad they would pass up the same thing labled as a GM product? Why not just up the warranty on the GM equivalent and dump Isuzu altogether? I don't agree that the Canyon/Colorado is at the back of the pack, though.
"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>
Sadly the worlds largest auto maker, at least for now, has forgotten completely how to lead.
Making "Me Too" products like the HHR and almost as good as the other guys vehicles like the G6 does not cut it for the leader of the pack.
Keeping Isuzu on life support with rebadge jobs ?????
Tarting up a Saab and calling it a Cadillac for Europe ????
Tarting up an Australian car and calling it the GTO ????
What the **** are Bob Lutz and the rest of those self styled geniuses thinking ?????
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Qskbe.3321$Yc.1924@trnddc06...>
"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message> news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...> > Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up
with> > lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.> >
Sadly the worlds largest auto maker, at least for now, has forgotten> completely how to lead.>
Making "Me Too" products like the HHR and almost as good as the other guys> vehicles like the G6 does not cut it for the leader of the pack.>
They had the designer for the PT cruiser design, it, yet nobody bothered to say "hey, that looks way too much like the last thing you made" ?
Keeping Isuzu on life support with rebadge jobs ?????>
*shrug* I don't see alot of Isuzu's out here.
Tarting up a Saab and calling it a Cadillac for Europe ????>
Tarting up an Australian car and calling it the GTO ????>
They should have just released it as a Monaro here, it probably would have been more of a hit.
What the **** are Bob Lutz and the rest of those self styled geniuses> thinking ?????>
Well, one thing I have to agree about: Why buy a GM truck rebadged as an > ISUZU? What's the point of that? Has anyone ever always wanted an Isuzu so > bad they would pass up the same thing labled as a GM product? Why not just > up the warranty on the GM equivalent and dump Isuzu altogether? I don't > agree that the Canyon/Colorado is at the back of the pack, though.
Well, properly outfitted, with options you can special order, it is possible to squeek in at just under $20K with rebates on a basic "stripped" 4*4 model with proper offroad accesories, bigger engine, altered diff, etc.
Done this way, it's an Xterra killer. Any other configuration is way overpriced.
James C. Reeves 27 April 2005 02:50:04 [ permanent link ]
That is correct.
<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message news:426E8EC4.E67B30B0@mailcity.com...> You are somewhat confused, profits earned by foreign corporation> leave the country. In the case of Japanese corporations, they> leave tax free. American corporations pay federal taxes on the> net profit earned in the US no matter where the vehicle are> assembled. The shareholders one again pay taxes on that portion> of those same profits that are distributed to them as dividends.>
Do a bit of research on a subject before you post your incorrect> opinion on that subject, WBMA. Particularly on a subject of> which you obviously have little or no knowledge, like corporate> taxes.. The amount of federal corporate income taxes, paid by> America corporations, is available to anyone willing to search> the IRS site.>
James C. Reeves 27 April 2005 02:53:26 [ permanent link ]
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Qskbe.3321$Yc.1924@trnddc06...>
"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message > news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...>> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with>> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>>
Sadly the worlds largest auto maker, at least for now, has forgotten > completely how to lead.
I would argue that they've forgotten how to listen (to their customers in particular). Based on recent announcements (like adding GM badges to the cars to pump up sales...yeah, right!), they *STILL* haven't gotten it!!
Making "Me Too" products like the HHR and almost as good as the other guys > vehicles like the G6 does not cut it for the leader of the pack.>
Keeping Isuzu on life support with rebadge jobs ?????>
Tarting up a Saab and calling it a Cadillac for Europe ????>
Tarting up an Australian car and calling it the GTO ????>
What the **** are Bob Lutz and the rest of those self styled geniuses > thinking ?????>
Businesswise, this is a tough year for Ford and GM. They've kept sales up with huge discounts and rebates, and it just has to end sometime. A lot of folks in the U.S. have spent all they can. The price of gas cuts into spending, and so some folks can't afford a car, and even if they could, they might look for something small that gets good gas mileage. Losing market share to Toyota, for instance, might indicate the price of gas is having an effect.
It's really just stockholders that should be complaining about sales. I mean, car enthusiasts don't care whether GM makes money or not. You could argue that a slowdown in sales is because they didn't make better products, but that would sure be hard to prove based on history! Talk is cheap.
I can't call them stupid like a lot of people do, because I'm not their target audience, I don't think. In other words, I can't say "If they'd make (fill in the blank) I'd buy it". I don't expect them to come out with anything I would actually buy. I hope they fool me.
"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>
Joseph Oberlander 27 April 2005 11:18:56 [ permanent link ]
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com wrote:> You are somewhat confused, profits earned by foreign corporation> leave the country. In the case of Japanese corporations, they> leave tax free. American corporations pay federal taxes on the> net profit earned in the US no matter where the vehicle are> assembled.
There are so many ways to not claim a profit or to dodge this that it's laughable. In any case, the money might as well be going overseas as those profits never get into the mainstream economy. "Trickle-down" economics don't work when your company is loosing money.
But you keep on buying U.S. "brand" cars made in China or Mexico or wherever. That few percent that the company makes off of the car in profits is way more important than the 50% or more in salaries and upkeep on that plant costs per vehicle. (sic for the impared)
I'll gladly give Toyota 10% of my money if I can give 50% to the workers in the U.S. - that's a fair trade.
Obviously you did not search the IRS site for who pays Corporate income taxes on profits earned in the US, if you believe that stuff.
You are certainly are entitled to spend your money where you wish, but once again you seem to be confused. The fast majority of vehicles sold in the US by domestic manufactures are made in the US.
Take a walk around some new car dealers lots, WBMA. A quick check of the first number of the VIN will indicated the country of manufacture or assembly. A '1' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of at least 75% north American sourced parts. A '2' indicates assembled in Canada. A '3' indicates the vehicle was assembled in Mexico. A '4' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of less than 75%, but more than 40% north American sourced parts. A '5' indicates the vehicle was assembled in the US of less than 40% north American sourced parts. A vehicle with a '5' could actually have none of its parts made in the US. Contrary to what you believe about Toyotas vehicles, the vast majority of their vehicles, sold in the US today, are VINed with either a 'J,' Japan or a '5' or a '2' The exception, are those that are built in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in California. They have a '1' because the UAW contract, in force there, requires American parts. The number one selling car is the US, the Camry, has a '5' or at best some have a '4.' The number one selling vehicle, buy nearly double Camry sales, the Ford F150 has a '1' in contrast.
As too the state and local taxes paid by assembly plants and their employees, both domestic and foreign owned plants, pay those taxes. Workers in domestic plant however receive higher wages, and thus pay more taxes to the states and the feds. They also have better benefits than the workers in foreign owned plants, even though Toyota vehicles sell for 20% to 30% more than their domestic competitor similarly sized and equipped vehicles.
A side by side comparison is available for you to verify if you chose. Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are basically the same vehicle. Go price them both, you will find the Toyota assembled in Canada of mostly imported parts, will cost you around $2,000 more to drive home than the Vibe made in the US with mostly American parts.
Recently Toyota, because of complaints to the FCC, have changed their advertising of "Made in America" to "assemble in the US of world sourced parts" in the fine print.
If they would build a four door 1972 suburban I would buy it. I would also buy another Venture even after doing the intake gasket, I just like the van. "Joe" <Joe@dontspam.net> wrote in message news:G4Ebe.22591$Jg7.10749@fe03.lga...> Everybody kicks you when you're down.>
Businesswise, this is a tough year for Ford and GM. They've kept sales up > with huge discounts and rebates, and it just has to end sometime. A lot of > folks in the U.S. have spent all they can. The price of gas cuts into > spending, and so some folks can't afford a car, and even if they could, > they might look for something small that gets good gas mileage. Losing > market share to Toyota, for instance, might indicate the price of gas is > having an effect.>
It's really just stockholders that should be complaining about sales. I > mean, car enthusiasts don't care whether GM makes money or not. You could > argue that a slowdown in sales is because they didn't make better > products, but that would sure be hard to prove based on history! Talk is > cheap.>
I can't call them stupid like a lot of people do, because I'm not their > target audience, I don't think. In other words, I can't say "If they'd > make (fill in the blank) I'd buy it". I don't expect them to come out with > anything I would actually buy. I hope they fool me.>
"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message > news:116r583erep0a08@corp.supernews.com...>> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with>> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>>
Joseph Oberlander 28 April 2005 20:55:02 [ permanent link ]
RustyFendor@mailcity.com wrote:
Apparently you are not confused just completely misinformed or> simply determined to believe what you want to believe. You have> it backwards the import brands are the ones that have been> subsided by state and local governments. Most of the plants they> operate were built with state bonds, funded by the taxpayers. > The workers were even trained in state funded Votex Schools >
Get yourself a copy of "Automotive News." It list the monthly> production of every manufacture in the US, Canada and imported.> Honda is the ONLY Japanese manufacture making the majority of it> parts and vehicles in the US that they sell in the US. They were> the one who complained to the FCC about Toyota erroneously> advertising their vehicles as made in America, when over 80% of> what the sell in the US is imported or made of imported parts. > Conversely GM and Ford are actually made in the US.
Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA. (though not a "1" on the VIN)
Not so, 80% of the vehicles GM sells in the US have a '1' not a '2' or '3' as you seem to think.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
RustyFendor@mailcity.com wrote:>
Apparently you are not confused just completely misinformed or> > simply determined to believe what you want to believe. You have> > it backwards the import brands are the ones that have been> > subsided by state and local governments. Most of the plants they> > operate were built with state bonds, funded by the taxpayers.> > The workers were even trained in state funded Votex Schools> >
Get yourself a copy of "Automotive News." It list the monthly> > production of every manufacture in the US, Canada and imported.> > Honda is the ONLY Japanese manufacture making the majority of it> > parts and vehicles in the US that they sell in the US. They were> > the one who complained to the FCC about Toyota erroneously> > advertising their vehicles as made in America, when over 80% of> > what the sell in the US is imported or made of imported parts.> > Conversely GM and Ford are actually made in the US.>
Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly> will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.> (though not a "1" on the VIN)
"You could argue that a slowdown in sales is because they didn't make better products, but that would sure be hard to prove based on history! Talk is cheap."
Your right... talk is cheap and GM does a lot of talking. When you're expected to pay 20-30+ grand for an automobile, there is no excuse for poor quality. Why is it that Honda and Toyota can build a car that runs forever with fewer problems than a similar GM product? That is the proven history that you seek! I own a 1985 Volvo and a 1999 Pontiac. My 20 year old Volvo requires less maintenance and repairs and is more trust worthy than the 1999 Pontiac. That is all the proof that I need.
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:55:02 GMT, Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:
Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly>will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.>(though not a "1" on the VIN)
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?
The company I work for just closed its US and Mexico plants - not because of taxes etc, but because of the workforces. Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
"Vuarra" <noone@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:qel971hfvuq8cljkhj9glui1v4a6oibcqp@4ax.com...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:55:02 GMT, Joseph Oberlander> <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:>
Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly> >will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.> >(though not a "1" on the VIN)>
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?>
The company I work for just closed its US and Mexico plants - not> because of taxes etc, but because of the workforces.> Vuarra>
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur.> (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Nothing is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada. It is cheaper to make there. In particular the health car is much less.
For some medical procedures the Canadians have to come to the U.S. and pay for treatment as their medical system does not want to invest in expensive equipment.
Da udder one ya dont know 1 May 2005 21:10:15 [ permanent link ]
Btw, GM lost 2 billion last year on rebates alone ->basically pricing the cars at under the competition, and>STILL not keeping customers. So it has to be more than>just price. I'd take a Camry(U.S. built, mind you) over>any Ford or Chrysler product. I know which will last longer>and hold its value better.
GM never lost anything, you can't lose what you never had. They didn't post porfits as high as predicted would be the correct statement.
The Camry may be assembled here in the states BUT with all asian parts. NO US content.
"Da udder one ya dont know" <no_one_you_know34474@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1114967415.249273.146520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> >Btw, GM lost 2 billion last year on rebates alone ->>basically pricing the cars at under the competition, and>>STILL not keeping customers. So it has to be more than>>just price. I'd take a Camry(U.S. built, mind you) over>>any Ford or Chrysler product. I know which will last longer>>and hold its value better.>
GM never lost anything, you can't lose what you never had. They didn't> post porfits as high as predicted would be the correct statement.
What was the "profit" number for the last quarter?
The Camry may be assembled here in the states BUT with all asian parts.> NO US content.>
Joseph Oberlander 2 May 2005 20:25:11 [ permanent link ]
Vuarra wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:55:02 GMT, Joseph Oberlander> <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:>
Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly>>will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.>>(though not a "1" on the VIN)>
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?
Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:Hvsde.3940$GQ5.3651@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?>
Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.
Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"? Why is that?
Joseph Oberlander 3 May 2005 10:09:48 [ permanent link ]
WaterWatcher wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:Hvsde.3940$GQ5.3651@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?>>
Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.>
Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've > read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM > cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"? > Why is that?
It's not true. The upkeep, salaries, workers comp and medical payments(emplyer's part), power and maintainence of the plant...
It all adds up to the largest part of the car's expense. Profits are nothing compared to the thousands per vehicle that get paid out all all levels running the plant.
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle. Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the profits earned in the US.
mike hunt
WaterWatcher wrote:>
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message> news:Hvsde.3940$GQ5.3651@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >
And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?> >
Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.>
Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've> read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM> cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"?> Why is that?
Joseph Oberlander 3 May 2005 22:50:31 [ permanent link ]
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the> profits earned in the US.
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our government, which contributes almost notihng of that money into the local economy.
You must have missed your economics 101 class. Even if that were true, the fact that American corporations pay taxes keeps your taxes down and the shareholders pay taxes on dividends as well. Buying a Toyota only benefits Japan, takes capital our of the country, worsens the trade deficit, helps to devalue the dollar, lowers the wage base in the US and hurts SS, for starters.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:>
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits> > earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.> > Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the> > profits earned in the US.>
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> into the local economy.
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:XJPde.5154$GQ5.4936@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:>
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits>> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.>> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the>> profits earned in the US.>
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> into the local economy.>
If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where does the money go?
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:fbadnd-2T7thneXfRVn-1g@comcast.com...>
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message> news:XJPde.5154$GQ5.4936@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:> >
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits> >> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.> >> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the> >> profits earned in the US.> >
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> > government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> > into the local economy.> >
If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where> does the money go?>
For one to pay the billions of dollars of interest on the $2 Trillion dollars worth of Treasury bonds held by the Japanese and other countries. Bonds they bought with dollars they got from Americans for their products. Dollars they don't want to spend on American products.
Joseph Oberlander 4 May 2005 11:26:01 [ permanent link ]
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com wrote:
You must have missed your economics 101 class. Even if that were> true, the fact that American corporations pay taxes keeps your> taxes down and the shareholders pay taxes on dividends as well.
Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making any profit.
But the most important fact is that economic aside, the waste and corruption of our government means that little or nothing really gets into the economy from GM's taxes. Wel, not unless you count missile defense systems that don't work, two concurrent wars with no end in sight, paying for people to write and produce fake propaganda as news...
I consider every dime that I give to them to be gone. The money I pay locally, otoh, it makes a real difference.
Buying a Toyota only benefits Japan, takes capital our of the> country,
Very slightly by comparison, since GM seems hell-bent on taking the capital it has overseas or across the border anyways. Toyota wants to make more vehicles here.
The end result is that where it's made is really 90% of the equation. Sure, the other 10% matters, but it's not nearly as critical.
Joseph Oberlander 4 May 2005 11:27:46 [ permanent link ]
James C. Reeves wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:XJPde.5154$GQ5.4936@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:>>
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits>>>earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.>>>Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the>>>profits earned in the US.>>
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our>>government, which contributes almost notihng of that money>>into the local economy.>>
If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where > does the money go?
I hear a lot of it is going to fund two wars overseas. Oh, and to bail out Social Security, which is hopelessly broken.
Certainly not going to help rebuild the streets and keep the schools nearby running. That's all state-level money.
Like I said you must have missed your economics 101 class if that is what you believe It is difficult to enlighten one who does not yet understand the basics, bye LOL
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com wrote:>
You must have missed your economics 101 class. Even if that were> > true, the fact that American corporations pay taxes keeps your> > taxes down and the shareholders pay taxes on dividends as well.>
Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get> dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have> to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making> any profit.>
But the most important fact is that economic aside, the> waste and corruption of our government means that little> or nothing really gets into the economy from GM's taxes.> Wel, not unless you count missile defense systems that> don't work, two concurrent wars with no end in sight,> paying for people to write and produce fake propaganda> as news...>
I consider every dime that I give to them to be gone.> The money I pay locally, otoh, it makes a real difference.>
Buying a Toyota only benefits Japan, takes capital our of the> > country,>
Very slightly by comparison, since GM seems hell-bent on> taking the capital it has overseas or across the border> anyways. Toyota wants to make more vehicles here.>
The end result is that where it's made is really 90%> of the equation. Sure, the other 10% matters, but> it's not nearly as critical.
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:dO_de.6559$BE3.4650@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get> dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have> to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making> any profit.>
Unless the dividend is paid into a IRA account, one certainly DOES pay taxes on dividends received. At least everyone I know does. The interesting thing is that if one receives dividends from a foreign country (say Nokia), you get a tax credit to offset the foreign tax you paid to the host country. It's interesting that the Feds give you a credit for the portion of your dividend that was already taxed in a foreign country but doesn't give you credit for US taxes already paid in the dividend from a US company.
"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:LNVde.695264$w62.97940@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...>
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message> news:fbadnd-2T7thneXfRVn-1g@comcast.com...>>
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message>> news:XJPde.5154$GQ5.4936@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...>> >
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:>> >
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits>> >> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.>> >> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the>> >> profits earned in the US.>> >
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our>> > government, which contributes almost notihng of that money>> > into the local economy.>> >
If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where>> does the money go?>>
For one to pay the billions of dollars of interest on the $2 Trillion> dollars worth of Treasury bonds held by the Japanese and other countries.> Bonds they bought with dollars they got from Americans for their products.> Dollars they don't want to spend on American products.>
That accounts for a fraction of it. What about the rest?
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:6sWdnR39P76zyeTfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...>
"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message> news:LNVde.695264$w62.97940@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> >
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message> > news:fbadnd-2T7thneXfRVn-1g@comcast.com...> >>
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message> >> news:XJPde.5154$GQ5.4936@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...> >> >
BigJohson@mailcity.com wrote:> >> >
Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits> >> >> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.> >> >> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the> >> >> profits earned in the US.> >> >
WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> >> > government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> >> > into the local economy.> >> >
If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the
where> >> does the money go?> >>
For one to pay the billions of dollars of interest on the $2 Trillion> > dollars worth of Treasury bonds held by the Japanese and other
countries.> > Bonds they bought with dollars they got from Americans for their products.> > Dollars they don't want to spend on American products.> >
That accounts for a fraction of it. What about the rest?>
I am only saying that is where part of it might go. The interest on $2 Trillion is about $100 Billion. Not a minor "fraction". That is approximately 1/4 of the Deficit.
Of course much will go for other "legitimate expenses" such as maintaining our "occupation troops" in Germany, Japan and Korea as well as Iraq. All of course countries that will rise up again and become a world menace if we don't control them.
Someday the trade deficit has to come home. Those dollars are supposed to be used to purchase American products. Not to support out debt. With the dollar falling most countries are losing interest in supporting our debt. What happens next?
Joseph Oberlander 5 May 2005 13:53:28 [ permanent link ]
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com wrote:
Like I said you must have missed your economics 101 class if that> is what you believe It is difficult to enlighten one who does> not yet understand the basics, bye LOL
I see that "economics 101" seems to be doing our nation well. Massive debts, no accountability, and nothing to fall back on if it all comes apart.
I wonder what other nonsense they teach at most universities these days? That they have to teach ethics classes to business majors should be some hint.
Joseph Oberlander 5 May 2005 13:54:49 [ permanent link ]
James C. Reeves wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:dO_de.6559$BE3.4650@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...>
Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get>>dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have>>to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making>>any profit.>>
Unless the dividend is paid into a IRA account, one certainly DOES pay taxes > on dividends received. At least everyone I know does.
But huge corporations aren't you or I and can find dozens of ways to dodge most of their taxes, especially when they are not doing well, like GM is right now.
Joseph Oberlander 5 May 2005 14:11:38 [ permanent link ]
Rich256 wrote:
Someday the trade deficit has to come home. Those dollars are supposed to> be used to purchase American products. Not to support out debt. With the> dollar falling most countries are losing interest in supporting our debt.> What happens next?
This, unfortunately, is quite easy to predict.
- Bush keeps the economy afloat by any means necessarry during his next three years, - Greenspan passes away about that time. The combined effect is that the wizard who kept everything running isn't there when the next big problem happens. - The problem looming, of course, is a change from U.S. dollars to the Euro in world monetary funds and oil trading. 5 years at most.
That's 40% of our money's value, folks. All based upon stock-market type inflation and speculation. Once this change happens and we loose our image and leverage, we're sunk if we are trillions in debt, because everyone will start calling in their loans. Our credit rating drops, raising rates in a vicious cycle.
And Greenspan isn't there to save us. Downward spiral into a depression. China and other countries owns half of our economy in its grip by then. We make hardly anything domestically anymore, leading to a situation where we either pay high prices locally or import everything(see Japan for an example of this). Now, this is surviveable IF we don't have a huge debt. California is a good example of this - we borrowed our way out of bankruptcy, which will likely mean a repeat in a few years since nobody seems to be repaying it OR reducing what we are overspending.
You are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how misinformed or convoluted it may be. ;)
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com wrote:>
Like I said you must have missed your economics 101 class if that> > is what you believe It is difficult to enlighten one who does> > not yet understand the basics, bye LOL>
I see that "economics 101" seems to be doing our nation> well. Massive debts, no accountability, and nothing> to fall back on if it all comes apart.>
I wonder what other nonsense they teach at most universities> these days? That they have to teach ethics classes to business> majors should be some hint.
The American consumer can turn the trade deficit around in no time. Do what the Japanese consumers do to support their own economy and protect their own jobs. Buy those products made by their own corporations, in their own factories and avoid imported products whenever possible.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
Rich256 wrote:>
Someday the trade deficit has to come home. Those dollars are supposed to> > be used to purchase American products. Not to support out debt. With the> > dollar falling most countries are losing interest in supporting our debt.> > What happens next?>
This, unfortunately, is quite easy to predict.>
- Bush keeps the economy afloat by any means necessarry during> his next three years,> - Greenspan passes away about that time. The combined effect> is that the wizard who kept everything running isn't there> when the next big problem happens.> - The problem looming, of course, is a change from U.S. dollars> to the Euro in world monetary funds and oil trading. 5 years> at most.>
That's 40% of our money's value, folks. All based upon stock-market> type inflation and speculation. Once this change happens and we> loose our image and leverage, we're sunk if we are trillions in> debt, because everyone will start calling in their loans. Our> credit rating drops, raising rates in a vicious cycle.>
And Greenspan isn't there to save us. Downward spiral into> a depression. China and other countries owns half of our economy> in its grip by then. We make hardly anything domestically> anymore, leading to a situation where we either pay high prices> locally or import everything(see Japan for an example of this).> Now, this is surviveable IF we don't have a huge debt. California> is a good example of this - we borrowed our way out of bankruptcy,> which will likely mean a repeat in a few years since nobody seems> to be repaying it OR reducing what we are overspending.
The US consumer is to short sighted and focused on themselves to do for the "common good".
<IleneDover@mailcity.com> wrote in message news:427A2E4F.2D281B2F@mailcity.com...> The American consumer can turn the trade deficit around in no> time. Do what the Japanese consumers do to support their own> economy and protect their own jobs. Buy those products made by> their own corporations, in their own factories and avoid imported> products whenever possible.>
Joseph Oberlander 6 May 2005 11:28:12 [ permanent link ]
IleneDover@mailcity.com wrote:
The American consumer can turn the trade deficit around in no> time. Do what the Japanese consumers do to support their own> economy and protect their own jobs. Buy those products made by> their own corporations, in their own factories and avoid imported> products whenever possible.
And the problem with that is... Exactly. We don't make most consumer goods in the U.S. anymore, unlike Japan. There's nothing to fall back on compared to even twenty years ago.
The may be true if you only shop K Mart. There are plenty of American products of all types on the market, one need only look at labels. I make it a point to do just that, although it is problem to find some things that are still American made.
When it comes to motor vehicles I buy only those made by an American corporations in and American factory with mostly American parts that have a '1' as the first number of the VIN.. No Toyotas, Subarus, or BMWs that are only assembled in the US, or Crown Vics or Chrysler from Canada or Silverado or Tacomas from Mexico, and etc. for me.
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:>
IleneDover@mailcity.com wrote:>
The American consumer can turn the trade deficit around in no> > time. Do what the Japanese consumers do to support their own> > economy and protect their own jobs. Buy those products made by> > their own corporations, in their own factories and avoid imported> > products whenever possible.>
And the problem with that is... Exactly. We don't make> most consumer goods in the U.S. anymore, unlike Japan.> There's nothing to fall back on compared to even twenty years ago.
If you would like to report an abuse of our service, such as a spam message, please . Если Вы хотите пожаловаться на содержимое этой страницы, пожалуйста .
