http://www.autoweb.­com/content/shared/a­rticles/templates/in­dex.cfm/article_id_i­nt/481/id/24586>

"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message> news:116r583erep0a0­8@corp.supernews.com­...> > Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up

Sadly the worlds largest auto maker, at least for now, has forgotten> completely how to lead.>

Making "Me Too" products like the HHR and almost as good as the other guys> vehicles like the G6 does not cut it for the leader of the pack.>

Keeping Isuzu on life support with rebadge jobs ?????>

Tarting up a Saab and calling it a Cadillac for Europe ????>

Tarting up an Australian car and calling it the GTO ????>

What the **** are Bob Lutz and the rest of those self styled geniuses> thinking ?????>

Sad!> John>

­>:|*shrug* I don't see alot of Isuzu's out here.>:|

"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message > news:116r583erep0a0­8@corp.supernews.com­...>

Well, one thing I have to agree about: Why buy a GM truck rebadged as an > ISUZU? What's the point of that? Has anyone ever always wanted an Isuzu so > bad they would pass up the same thing labled as a GM product? Why not just > up the warranty on the GM equivalent and dump Isuzu altogether? I don't > agree that the Canyon/Colorado is at the back of the pack, though.

Do a bit of research on a subject before you post your incorrect> opinion on that subject, WBMA. Particularly on a subject of> which you obviously have little or no knowledge, like corporate> taxes.. The amount of federal corporate income taxes, paid by> America corporations, is available to anyone willing to search> the IRS site.>

"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message > news:116r583erep0a0­8@corp.supernews.com­...>> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with>> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>>

Sadly the worlds largest auto maker, at least for now, has forgotten > completely how to lead.

Making "Me Too" products like the HHR and almost as good as the other guys > vehicles like the G6 does not cut it for the leader of the pack.>

Keeping Isuzu on life support with rebadge jobs ?????>

Tarting up a Saab and calling it a Cadillac for Europe ????>

Tarting up an Australian car and calling it the GTO ????>

What the **** are Bob Lutz and the rest of those self styled geniuses > thinking ?????>

Sad!> John>

http://www.autoweb.­com/content/shared/a­rticles/templates/in­dex.cfm/article_id_i­nt/481/id/24586>

Businesswise, this is a tough year for Ford and GM. They've kept sales up > with huge discounts and rebates, and it just has to end sometime. A lot of > folks in the U.S. have spent all they can. The price of gas cuts into > spending, and so some folks can't afford a car, and even if they could, > they might look for something small that gets good gas mileage. Losing > market share to Toyota, for instance, might indicate the price of gas is > having an effect.>

It's really just stockholders that should be complaining about sales. I > mean, car enthusiasts don't care whether GM makes money or not. You could > argue that a slowdown in sales is because they didn't make better > products, but that would sure be hard to prove based on history! Talk is > cheap.>

I can't call them stupid like a lot of people do, because I'm not their > target audience, I don't think. In other words, I can't say "If they'd > make (fill in the blank) I'd buy it". I don't expect them to come out with > anything I would actually buy. I hope they fool me.>

"Lil Rascal" <ert@nern.com> wrote in message > news:116r583erep0a0­8@corp.supernews.com­...>> Seems like everyone is Diss'n GM, the below article says GM shows up with>> lots of DUDS at the Auto Show.>>

Apparently you are not confused just completely misinformed or> simply determined to believe what you want to believe. You have> it backwards the import brands are the ones that have been> subsided by state and local governments. Most of the plants they> operate were built with state bonds, funded by the taxpayers. > The workers were even trained in state funded Votex Schools >

Get yourself a copy of "Automotive News." It list the monthly> production of every manufacture in the US, Canada and imported.> Honda is the ONLY Japanese manufacture making the majority of it> parts and vehicles in the US that they sell in the US. They were> the one who complained to the FCC about Toyota erroneously> advertising their vehicles as made in America, when over 80% of> what the sell in the US is imported or made of imported parts. > Conversely GM and Ford are actually made in the US.

RustyFendor@mailcit­y.com wrote:>

Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly> will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.> (though not a "1" on the VIN)

Actually, most of GM is now made in Canada and Mexico, or shortly>will be. Still gets a 100% domestic content sticker, thanks to NAFTA.>(though not a "1" on the VIN)

And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?>

The company I work for just closed its US and Mexico plants - not> because of taxes etc, but because of the workforces.> Vuarra>

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur.> (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)

Btw, GM lost 2 billion last year on rebates alone ->basically pricing the cars at under the competition, and>STILL not keeping customers. So it has to be more than>just price. I'd take a Camry(U.S. built, mind you) over>any Ford or Chrysler product. I know which will last longer>and hold its value better.

GM never lost anything, you can't lose what you never had. They didn't> post porfits as high as predicted would be the correct statement.

The Camry may be assembled here in the states BUT with all asian parts.> NO US content.>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:55:02 GMT, Joseph Oberlander> <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote:>

And just what is wrong with a vehicle made in Canada?

Virtually none of the money makes it into the U.S. economy.

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote in message > news:Hvsde.3940$GQ5­.3651@newsread1.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.>

Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've > read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM > cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"? > Why is that?

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote in message> news:Hvsde.3940$GQ5­.3651@newsread1.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.> >

Interesting statement. When talking about Japanese cars made in the US I've> read in this group that "all of the profits go back to Japan" but when GM> cars are made in Canada, "none of the money makes it into the US economy"?> Why is that?

Not so. GM pays federal corporate income taxes on the profits> earned in the US, regardless of country of origin of the vehicle.> Toyota on the other hand pay no US corporate income tax and the> profits earned in the US.

BigJohson@mailcity.­com wrote:>

WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> into the local economy.

BigJohson@mailcity.­com wrote:>

WHEN THEY MAKE A PROFIT, that is. Even then, it goes to our> government, which contributes almost notihng of that money> into the local economy.>

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote in message> news:XJPde.5154$GQ5­.4936@newsread1.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.> >

If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where> does the money go?>

You must have missed your economics 101 class. Even if that were> true, the fact that American corporations pay taxes keeps your> taxes down and the shareholders pay taxes on dividends as well.

Buying a Toyota only benefits Japan, takes capital our of the> country,

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote in message > news:XJPde.5154$GQ5­.4936@newsread1.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.>

If the government doesn't put the money back to the US economy, the where > does the money go?

MelvinGibson@mailci­ty.com wrote:>

Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get> dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have> to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making> any profit.>

But the most important fact is that economic aside, the> waste and corruption of our government means that little> or nothing really gets into the economy from GM's taxes.> Wel, not unless you count missile defense systems that> don't work, two concurrent wars with no end in sight,> paying for people to write and produce fake propaganda> as news...>

I consider every dime that I give to them to be gone.> The money I pay locally, otoh, it makes a real difference.>

Very slightly by comparison, since GM seems hell-bent on> taking the capital it has overseas or across the border> anyways. Toyota wants to make more vehicles here.>

The end result is that where it's made is really 90%> of the equation. Sure, the other 10% matters, but> it's not nearly as critical.

Looks good on paper, but fails in practice as those who get> dividends are almost always able to find a way to not have> to pay much if any tax on them. And lately, GM isn't making> any profit.>

"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.co­m> wrote in message> news:fbadnd-2T7thne­XfRVn-1g@comcast.com­...>>

For one to pay the billions of dollars of interest on the $2 Trillion> dollars worth of Treasury bonds held by the Japanese and other countries.> Bonds they bought with dollars they got from Americans for their products.> Dollars they don't want to spend on American products.>

"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net>­ wrote in message> news:LNVde.695264$w­62.97940@bgtnsc05-ne­ws.ops.worldnet.att.­net...> >

That accounts for a fraction of it. What about the rest?>

Like I said you must have missed your economics 101 class if that> is what you believe It is difficult to enlighten one who does> not yet understand the basics, bye LOL

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@e­arthlink.net> wrote in message > news:dO_de.6559$BE3­.4650@newsread2.news­.pas.earthlink.net..­.>

Unless the dividend is paid into a IRA account, one certainly DOES pay taxes > on dividends received. At least everyone I know does.

Someday the trade deficit has to come home. Those dollars are supposed to> be used to purchase American products. Not to support out debt. With the> dollar falling most countries are losing interest in supporting our debt.> What happens next?

MelvinGibson@mailci­ty.com wrote:>

I see that "economics 101" seems to be doing our nation> well. Massive debts, no accountability, and nothing> to fall back on if it all comes apart.>

I wonder what other nonsense they teach at most universities> these days? That they have to teach ethics classes to business> majors should be some hint.

Rich256 wrote:>

This, unfortunately, is quite easy to predict.>

- Bush keeps the economy afloat by any means necessarry during> his next three years,> - Greenspan passes away about that time. The combined effect> is that the wizard who kept everything running isn't there> when the next big problem happens.> - The problem looming, of course, is a change from U.S. dollars> to the Euro in world monetary funds and oil trading. 5 years> at most.>

That's 40% of our money's value, folks. All based upon stock-market> type inflation and speculation. Once this change happens and we> loose our image and leverage, we're sunk if we are trillions in> debt, because everyone will start calling in their loans. Our> credit rating drops, raising rates in a vicious cycle.>

And Greenspan isn't there to save us. Downward spiral into> a depression. China and other countries owns half of our economy> in its grip by then. We make hardly anything domestically> anymore, leading to a situation where we either pay high prices> locally or import everything(see Japan for an example of this).> Now, this is surviveable IF we don't have a huge debt. California> is a good example of this - we borrowed our way out of bankruptcy,> which will likely mean a repeat in a few years since nobody seems> to be repaying it OR reducing what we are overspending.

mike hunt>

The American consumer can turn the trade deficit around in no> time. Do what the Japanese consumers do to support their own> economy and protect their own jobs. Buy those products made by> their own corporations, in their own factories and avoid imported> products whenever possible.

IleneDover@mailcity­.com wrote:>

And the problem with that is... Exactly. We don't make> most consumer goods in the U.S. anymore, unlike Japan.> There's nothing to fall back on compared to even twenty years ago.