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Intake Gasket Failure Question
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CarGuru > General Motors > Intake Gasket Failure Question 30 November 2006 22:19:46
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Intake Gasket Failure Question

Jack L. Spratt 2 April 2005 21:25:45
 My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for
intake Gasket Failures.
My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening since
around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool? If
I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the
Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain the
dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be because
GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around
for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may
favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done
changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.


Add comment
Geoff Welsh 2 April 2005 21:49:44 [ permanent link ]
 Jack L. Spratt wrote:
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for> intake Gasket Failures.

On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't
still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not
checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.
(according to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training
seminar I attended.)
GW
Add comment
Shiden_kai 2 April 2005 22:22:04 [ permanent link ]
 Jack L. Spratt wrote:
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible> for intake Gasket Failures.

No, GM does not think that Dexcool has anything to do with
gasket failures. The intake gasket failure is due to a poor design
that relies on low clamp loads and the fact that a technician
ought to know how to torque bolts and use loctite in these
particular applications.
My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening> since around the mid 1990's.

Intake gasket failures on GM 60 degree engines have been happening
since they started making the engines in the mid 80's. When they first came
out in
the X-bodies and A-bodies....we were doing intake gaskets all the
time. Same problem.....coolant­ would get in the engine oil. Different
style of gasket....same basic end result...coolant in oil. There has also
always been a problem with oil leakage from the RTV end gaskets.
This is due to two problems.....poor preparation of the surfaces by
the technicians....and the fact that RTV gaskets will inevitably leak
no matter what you do.

Ian


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 2 April 2005 22:57:49 [ permanent link ]
 In article <YWA3e.3842$kk2.324­1@twister.socal.rr.c­om>,
Geoff Welsh <geoffdubya@some.rr­.com> wrote:
Jack L. Spratt wrote:>
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for> > intake Gasket Failures.>
On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't > still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not > checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.> (according to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training > seminar I attended.)> GW

?????????

My refractometer only shows freeze point...
Add comment
Geoff Welsh 2 April 2005 23:51:34 [ permanent link ]
 aarcuda69062 wrote:
In article <YWA3e.3842$kk2.324­1@twister.socal.rr.c­om>,> Geoff Welsh <geoffdubya@some.rr­.com> wrote:>
Jack L. Spratt wrote:>>
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for>>>intake Gasket Failures.>>
On the contrary. GM says Dex-Cool is god's gift to man. They wouldn't >>still use it otherwise. Any problem is the owner's fault for not >>checking the coolant's quality with a refractometer often enough.>>(according­ to the AC Delco guy that taught the last after-work training >>seminar I attended.)>>GW>
?????????>
My refractometer only shows freeze point...
Which would, of course, be higher if the Dex-Cool to water ratio was
higher or lower than ideal. The statement from the Delco rep, may or
may not be hogwash, but supposedly....
If the Dex-Cool to water mix is not within a few points of the 50-50
range, the mixture becomes VERY acidic, and THAT is the owners fault for
not maintaining the 50-50 mix, not the Dex-Cools fault. The main
dilution of the ideal mix comes from air in the system.
How does air get in? Bad radiator cap.
GM never said they were five year caps, just five year coolant.
GW
Add comment
Nospam Clare Nce 3 April 2005 00:27:15 [ permanent link ]
 On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:22:04 GMT, "shiden_kai"
<violet_lightening_­modified@hotmail.com­> wrote:
Jack L. Spratt wrote:>
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible>> for intake Gasket Failures.>
No, GM does not think that Dexcool has anything to do with>gasket failures. The intake gasket failure is due to a poor design>that relies on low clamp loads and the fact that a technician>ought to know how to torque bolts and use loctite in these>particular applications.>
My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening>> since around the mid 1990's.>
Intake gasket failures on GM 60 degree engines have been happening>since they started making the engines in the mid 80's. When they first came >out in>the X-bodies and A-bodies....we were doing intake gaskets all the>time. Same problem.....coolant­ would get in the engine oil. Different>style of gasket....same basic end result...coolant in oil. There has also>always been a problem with oil leakage from the RTV end gaskets.>This is due to two problems.....poor preparation of the surfaces by>the technicians....and the fact that RTV gaskets will inevitably leak>no matter what you do.>
Ian >
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a
factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that
uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot
seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or
buts about it.

Not fixing the root problem is the result of the bean counters looking
at the cost to repair the desihn vs the cost to repair under warranty,
taking the average lifespan into account.
Simply put, they figure it is cheaper to replace a few thousand
gaskets a year than to redisign the engine.

What they fail to take into account is the loss of sales due to
customer dis-satisfaction and anger.

And they wonder why they couldn't sell enough Oldsmobiles to make it
worth while retaining the marque - and now either Pontiac or Buick (or
possibly both) may well follow suite.

Used to be the cry was "kill all the lawyers".. Soon it will be "kill
all the accountants". Between accountants and lawyers, manufacturing
jobs are relentlessly being driven out of the USA , and close behind,
out of Canada as well.
Add comment
Paul 3 April 2005 00:32:08 [ permanent link ]
 Jack L. Spratt wrote:>
My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for> intake Gasket Failures.> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening since> around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool? If> I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the> Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain the> dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be because> GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around> for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may> favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done> changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.

I never read that GM said that about DeathCool.
I don't belive it and think it false information.
The problem has been around a lot longer than 10 years.
IMO, the 60 degree engine is a poor design for intake/head mating.
You might want to do some reading on the subject.
Add comment
Scott Buchanan 3 April 2005 10:06:54 [ permanent link ]
 When I was having problems I re-torqued the intake manifold bolts. There
were loose bolts. This seemed to have done the trick. This also worked on
the valve cover the oil pan and a part around the output shafts on the
transmission.


"Jack L. Spratt" <rburpee@cunn.com> wrote in message
news:114tlcfih7q0gb­1@corp.supernews.com­...> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for> intake Gasket Failures.> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening
since> around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool?
I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the> Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain
dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be
because> GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around> for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may> favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done> changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.>


Add comment
Shiden_kai 3 April 2005 22:51:51 [ permanent link ]
 nospam.clare.nce@sny­.der.on.ca wrote:
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a> factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that> uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot> seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or> buts about it.

I was talking about the RTV section of the gasket. Eventually
they all do leak, but I and other techs that I know that take the
time to use RTV properly don't see the intake gasket back leaking
from the RTV very often. But the one's that dont take care, usually
are re-doing them.

The entire engine design is suspect....but you are right, bean counters
will do us in.

Ian


Add comment
Pnsman64 3 April 2005 23:19:25 [ permanent link ]
 I am a member of this club, 98 Lumina 3.1 once when it was under warranty
and now again at almost 80k! I plan on replacing the coolant fluid with the
good old fashion Prestone green antifreeze. Does anyone think all this
trouble may be from the new dex coolant or just crappy design?


"shiden_kai" <violet_lightening_­modified@hotmail.com­> wrote in message
news:bXW3e.892058$8­l.44957@pd7tw1no...>­ nospam.clare.nce@sn­y.der.on.ca wrote:>
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a>> factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that>> uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot>> seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or>> buts about it.>
I was talking about the RTV section of the gasket. Eventually> they all do leak, but I and other techs that I know that take the> time to use RTV properly don't see the intake gasket back leaking> from the RTV very often. But the one's that dont take care, usually> are re-doing them.>
The entire engine design is suspect....but you are right, bean counters> will do us in.>


Add comment
Bon·ne·ville 4 April 2005 00:37:40 [ permanent link ]
 In article <bXW3e.892058$8l.44­957@pd7tw1no>,
violet_lightening_m­odified@hotmail.com says...> nospam.clare.nce@sn­y.der.on.ca wrote:>
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a> > factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that> > uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot> > seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or> > buts about it.>
I was talking about the RTV section of the gasket. Eventually> they all do leak, but I and other techs that I know that take the> time to use RTV properly don't see the intake gasket back leaking> from the RTV very often. But the one's that dont take care, usually> are re-doing them.>
The entire engine design is suspect....but you are right, bean counters> will do us in.>
Ian

After cleaning the surfaces real good I use McKanica red High Temp RTV
around the corners of the intake as well as round the coolant passages
on the gasket. With some thread locker and that McKanica RTV there are
no repeat leaks. Great stuff!

In article <blX3e.403$l13.202@­fe04.lga>, pnsman64@charter.ne­t says...> I am a member of this club, 98 Lumina 3.1 once when it was under warranty > and now again at almost 80k! I plan on replacing the coolant fluid with the > good old fashion Prestone green antifreeze. Does anyone think all this > trouble may be from the new dex coolant or just crappy design?

In my experiance Dexcool is still far better if the leaks are repaired
correctly. When I remove plastic gaskets that have been running
conventional green coolant I find most of the plastic material is
missing and whats left of the gasket is very brittle. I also find a lot
of pock marks in the aluminum which will never re-seal without good RTV.
However the rubber beads built into those gaskets are usually swelled up
which is the "only" advantage the silicon based coolants give you.
(until they blow out from lack of plastic material)

Dexcool contains a plasticizer which softens up the plastic gaskets ever
so slightly. For the 60deg motors this is a huge problem considering
they dont have a very good clamping load on the gaskets and the gaskets
are taller and thinner around the passages. For the 3800's lower intake
gaskets this isnt much of an issue.





Add comment
DonW 4 April 2005 03:06:06 [ permanent link ]
 
"pnsman64" <pnsman64@charter.n­et> wrote in message news:blX3e.403$l13.­202@fe04.lga...>I am a member of this club, 98 Lumina 3.1 once when it was under warranty > and now again at almost 80k! I plan on replacing the coolant fluid with the > good old fashion Prestone green antifreeze. Does anyone think all this > trouble may be from the new dex coolant or just crappy design?

I've had the top part of the engine off a couple times replacing injectors and the lower manifold gasket. There was very little corrosion anywhere. I have changed the Dexcool on 2 1/2 - 3 yr. intervals and changed the pressure cap to one having a spring-loaded relief per item 4 in this article: Dexcool Article
So, based on my observations I'd choose crappy design.
Ian has posted info recently on a new gasket released and fastener specs for this engine family. Don't know if there's enough history yet to know if it fixes the problem.
My vehicle was a 98 Pontiac Montana.


"shiden_kai" <violet_lightening_­modified@hotmail.com­> wrote in message > news:bXW3e.892058$8­l.44957@pd7tw1no...>­> nospam.clare.nce@sn­y.der.on.ca wrote:>>
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a>>> factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that>>> uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot>>> seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or>>> buts about it.>>
I was talking about the RTV section of the gasket. Eventually>> they all do leak, but I and other techs that I know that take the>> time to use RTV properly don't see the intake gasket back leaking>> from the RTV very often. But the one's that dont take care, usually>> are re-doing them.>>
The entire engine design is suspect....but you are right, bean counters>> will do us in.>>
Add comment
Suren 4 April 2005 05:54:39 [ permanent link ]
 Nice dexcool article you mentioned.

I have a question about
coolant recall for my 2000 Buick regal (LS, nonturbo).
I have been changing dexcool every year and it has 65000
miles. GM is sending me recall notice every 3 months
to care recall. The recall will expire in July 2005.

My question is since I have been changing coolant
regularly and no overheating problem, do you think
I should still take the care to delaer or just ignore the recall.
And if you can explain what's in the recall besides
tightening the bolts.

DonW wrote:>
"pnsman64" <pnsman64@charter.n­et <mailto:p­nsman64@ch­arter.net>> wrote in > message news:blX3e.403$l13.­202@fe04.lga...> >I am a member of this club, 98 Lumina 3.1 once when it was under warranty> > and now again at almost 80k! I plan on replacing the coolant fluid > with the> > good old fashion Prestone green antifreeze. Does anyone think all this> > trouble may be from the new dex coolant or just crappy design?>
I've had the top part of the engine off a couple times replacing > injectors and the lower manifold gasket. There was very little > corrosion anywhere. I have changed the Dexcool on 2 1/2 - 3 yr. > intervals and changed the pressure cap to one having a spring-loaded > relief per item 4 in this article: Dexcool Article > <http://www.imcool.­com/articles/antifre­eze-coolant/dexcool-­macs2001.htm>> So, based on my observations I'd choose crappy design.> Ian has posted info recently on a new gasket released and fastener specs > for this engine family. Don't know if there's enough history yet to > know if it fixes the problem.> My vehicle was a 98 Pontiac Montana.>
"shiden_kai" <violet_lightening_­modified@hotmail.com­ > <mailto:violet_ligh­tening_modified@hotm­ail.com>> wrote in message> > news:bXW3e.892058$8­l.44957@pd7tw1no...>­ >> nospam.clare.nce@sn­y.der.on.ca > <mailto:nospam.clar­e.nce@sny.der.on.ca>­ wrote:> >>
How can you blame it on the technicians or poor preparation on a> >>> factory new engine? It is GM's fault - pure and simple. A design that> >>> uses low clamping loads combined with gasket materials that cannot> >>> seal under low clamp load conditions is poor design, no ifs, ands, or> >>> buts about it.> >>
I was talking about the RTV section of the gasket. Eventually> >> they all do leak, but I and other techs that I know that take the> >> time to use RTV properly don't see the intake gasket back leaking> >> from the RTV very often. But the one's that dont take care, usually> >> are re-doing them.> >>
The entire engine design is suspect....but you are right, bean counters> >> will do us in.> >>
Add comment
Pnsman64 4 April 2005 17:52:27 [ permanent link ]
 WOW I never realized all the trouble with these engines. I am amazed they
would let this known problem continue for so long.

"Jack L. Spratt" <rburpee@cunn.com> wrote in message
news:114tlcfih7q0gb­1@corp.supernews.com­...> My understanding is GM claims that the DexCool coolant is responsible for> intake Gasket Failures.> My understanding is also that the intake failures have been happening > since> around the mid 1990's. Isnt that before they even started using Dexcool? > If> I am wrong on that then I stand corrected. In any case if GM new that the> Dexcool was the problem then why didnt they just have a recall to drain > the> dexcool and refill all the cars with the green stuff? Would this be > because> GM would then be admitting to a known problem? The problem has been around> for 10 years unaddressed year after year. GM used to make some of may> favorite cars...Hotrod Chevelles, GTOs Camaros etc. But GM ....you done> changed. I just dont know if I still want to be your friend.>


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 4 April 2005 21:35:15 [ permanent link ]
 In article <xEb4e.4193$6w.4011­@fe07.lga>,
"pnsman64" <pnsman64@charter.n­et> wrote:
WOW I never realized all the trouble with these engines. I am amazed they > would let this known problem continue for so long.


Why not?
The small block Chevy camshaft problem went on for decades...
Add comment
Noname 4 April 2005 22:58:59 [ permanent link ]
 
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-BAE0C­D.12351504042005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> In article <xEb4e.4193$6w.4011­@fe07.lga>,> "pnsman64" <pnsman64@charter.n­et> wrote:>
WOW I never realized all the trouble with these engines. I am amazed
they> > would let this known problem continue for so long.>
Why not?> The small block Chevy camshaft problem went on for decades...


What problem are you referring to?


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 5 April 2005 05:25:09 [ permanent link ]
 In article <v8g4e.4253$ja3.997­@fe07.lga>,
"noname" <nospam4meplease@no­spam.net> wrote:
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message> news:nonelson-BAE0C­D.12351504042005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> > In article <xEb4e.4193$6w.4011­@fe07.lga>,> > "pnsman64" <pnsman64@charter.n­et> wrote:> >
WOW I never realized all the trouble with these engines. I am amazed> they> > > would let this known problem continue for so long.> >
Why not?> > The small block Chevy camshaft problem went on for decades...>
What problem are you referring to?

Improperly heat treated camshafts.

Did hundreds in and out of warranty, as I'm sure Ian did also.
Add comment
Shiden_kai 5 April 2005 06:08:55 [ permanent link ]
 aarcuda69062 wrote:
What problem are you referring to?>
Improperly heat treated camshafts.>
Did hundreds in and out of warranty, as I'm sure Ian did also.

Yes...many of them never even made into the shop for
a PDI.

Ian


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 5 April 2005 06:52:29 [ permanent link ]
 In article <Xqm4e.897172$Xk.43­7473@pd7tw3no>,
"shiden_kai" <violet_lightening_­modified@hotmail.com­> wrote:
aarcuda69062 wrote:>
What problem are you referring to?> >
Improperly heat treated camshafts.> >
Did hundreds in and out of warranty, as I'm sure Ian did also.>
Yes...many of them never even made into the shop for> a PDI.>
Ian

heh-heh-heh.... ;-)­
Add comment
John Horner 5 April 2005 07:02:46 [ permanent link ]
 
GM never said they were five year caps, just five year coolant.

Gosh, any wonder why Toyota, Honda, Nissan and even Hyundai are kicking the
**** out of GM in the marketplace ??????

John


Add comment
John Horner 5 April 2005 07:05:05 [ permanent link ]
 
This is due to two problems.....poor preparation of the surfaces by> the technicians....and the fact that RTV gaskets will inevitably leak> no matter what you do.>

I am very angry that the intake gasket failed on our 2002 Oldsmobile at
40,000 miles or so ... well before the first coolant change was even
scheduled. This was not the result of a bad service tech, but a horrible
design.

Normally I have a low view of the class action lawyers, but when companies
put these kinds of problems knowingly in the field for decades, well, they
have it coming to them.

John



Add comment


Aarcuda69062 5 April 2005 08:25:52 [ permanent link ]
 In article <Bfn4e.3440$3O2.320­@trnddc01>,
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com­> wrote:
I am very angry that the intake gasket failed on our 2002 Oldsmobile at > 40,000 miles or so ...

Why? The problem was well known and documented long before 2002.

As long as people keep buying their garbage designs, GM will keep
cranking out garbage designs.
Add comment
Shiden_kai 6 April 2005 07:00:38 [ permanent link ]
 John Horner wrote:
I am very angry that the intake gasket failed on our 2002 Oldsmobile> at 40,000 miles or so ... well before the first coolant change was> even scheduled. This was not the result of a bad service tech, but> a horrible design.>
Normally I have a low view of the class action lawyers, but when> companies put these kinds of problems knowingly in the field for> decades, well, they have it coming to them.

Well, wait until everyone starts seeing all the head gasket failures
that we are seeing on the later model 3.4 engines. Of course,
the head gaskets are simply seeping coolant to the exterior
of the engine, but they are leaking all the same. Oh well, keeps
me busy.

Ian


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Bon·ne·ville 8 April 2005 07:12:04 [ permanent link ]
 
Engines today are> > not supposed to break any time soon with regular maintenance.>
True for many companies, but not GM.

My family has been buying GM vehicles since forever... I dont recall any
of the "engines" ever "breaking". The only engine I recall in the family
having a break down was a toyota or honda with a failed timing belt. Not
sure what your problem with GM is but for not owning any to speak of,
you sure like to shove your biased opinion onto everyone.
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Brad Clarke 8 April 2005 07:29:12 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:12:04 GMT, Bon·ne·ville <sp@m.b.gone> wrote:
Engines today are>>> > not supposed to break any time soon with regular maintenance.>>>
True for many companies, but not GM.>>
My family has been buying GM vehicles since forever... I dont recall any >>of the "engines" ever "breaking". The only engine I recall in the family >>having a break down was a toyota or honda with a failed timing belt. Not >>sure what your problem with GM is but for not owning any to speak of, >>you sure like to shove your biased opinion onto everyone.
I had a 2001 Malibu that suffered from piston slap.

At only 42,000 kms, GM had to replace the engine because the cylinder
walls were so badly damaged from the pistons banging around.

That's "breaking" in my book, and it should not be happening.

Brad
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Tango 9 April 2005 00:50:50 [ permanent link ]
 =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Bon=­B7ne=B7ville?= <sp@m.b.gone> wrote in
news:MPG.1cbfc1a398­7c9e6c989d99@news-se­rver.woh.rr.com:
Engines today are>> > not supposed to break any time soon with regular maintenance.>>
True for many companies, but not GM.>
My family has been buying GM vehicles since forever... I dont recall any > of the "engines" ever "breaking". The only engine I recall in the family > having a break down was a toyota or honda with a failed timing belt. Not > sure what your problem with GM is but for not owning any to speak of, > you sure like to shove your biased opinion onto everyone.>
I had the 2.2 engine head gasket problem, as did most other owners, but
after replacing, the car was very reliable after that except for the normal
items which need replacing with mileage.
GM has had more than its share of engine problems recently which hit the
owners in the pocketbook. You don't have 100% failure or 100% reliability
on any vehicle. Sounds like your family has been very lucky.
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Johnny Action 10 April 2005 19:09:09 [ permanent link ]
 
"Bon·ne·ville" <sp@m.b.gone> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cbfc1a398­7c9e6c989d99@news-se­rver.woh.rr.com...>
Engines today are> > > not supposed to break any time soon with regular maintenance.> >
True for many companies, but not GM.>
My family has been buying GM vehicles since forever... I dont recall any> of the "engines" ever "breaking". The only engine I recall in the family> having a break down was a toyota or honda with a failed timing belt. Not> sure what your problem with GM is but for not owning any to speak of,> you sure like to shove your biased opinion onto everyone.

They must not own any 3.1 or 3.8 engines hoovering close to 100k miles, or
they would know about the Intake gasket failures that happen like clock
work. They may as well pull out there check book and start writing one for
$800-900 payable to GM.


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Paul 10 April 2005 19:52:21 [ permanent link ]
 Johnny Action wrote:>

Marion Barry was re-elected mayor of Washington DC -after- being> > busted for crack cocaine. Never under estimate the ability of the> > general public to make illogical decisions.> >
I guess you are right....I still cant believe Bush was reelected. After what> he brought us.................­............high unemployment, high gas> prices, war, death and destruction to innocent people women and children.

Sounds like NYC on and after 9-11-01.
Are you blameing Bush for that as well?
Here is a link in case you have not heard of the attack:
http://www.11-sept.­org/survivors.html
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Heidijw 4 May 2005 11:53:54 [ permanent link ]
 Anyone heard of a GM service bulletin that describes the gasket
problem (leaking, coolant issues, overheating....)? I had heard of
one, but after calling the 800 GM number, nothing was found to be
wrong or known to be a problem. I have appt to take my 99 Montana in
for service tomorrow am and I'm hoping to arm myself with as much
information as I can.

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Guest 30 November 2006 22:19:46 [ permanent link ]
 NOT TRUE....intake gasket from the factory is a design flaw!! Check with the dana corp/ victor reinz gaskets...they make a replacement gasket that has reinforeced water jackets and rtv run out chambers.
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CarGuru > General Motors > Intake Gasket Failure Question 30 November 2006 22:19:46
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