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3 car teams
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CarGuru > Formula-1 > 3 car teams 6 May 2005 02:28:18

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3 car teams

Brian Sullivan 5 May 2005 17:09:08
 Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?
Add comment
Emma 5 May 2005 17:25:37 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?

Bernie says no.

From Autosport-atlas.com­:-

Formula One teams will not be asked to provide more cars to make up the
numbers if BAR are kicked out of the Championship, the sport's
commercial supremo Bernie Ecclestone said on Wednesday.

"We'd have to run as it is. You can't suddenly make people run more
cars," he told reporters at a lunch to promote this year's French Grand
Prix. "If they didn't enter the Championship it would be a different
story."

--
Emma - The Chocolate Monster
http://www.chocmons­ter.rules.it
http://www.altgalle­ry.shows.it
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Geoff May 5 May 2005 17:27:31 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan wrote:> Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?

No. Bernie has already said there will be no 3 car teams because the
season started with the required 20 car grid.

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 5th May, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
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HooDooWitch 5 May 2005 17:31:02 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 5 May 2005 09:09:08 -0400, Brian Sullivan
<briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:
Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?

No. The only possibility of that coming in was if there were less than
20 cars on the grid *at the start of the season*.

--
HooDooWitch
http://www.ianwhite­photo.co.uk
I'm into monkey business and business is booming.
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Bigbird 5 May 2005 18:13:12 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan wrote:> Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?

...and in summary, no.


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John Briggs 5 May 2005 18:16:41 permanent link ]
 HooDooWitch wrote:> On Thu, 5 May 2005 09:09:08 -0400, Brian Sullivan> <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>
Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?>
No. The only possibility of that coming in was if there were less than> 20 cars on the grid *at the start of the season*.

We don't actually know that it is "less than 20".
--
John Briggs


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John Briggs 5 May 2005 18:26:13 permanent link ]
 Ace wrote:> Geoff May wrote:>> Brian Sullivan wrote:>>> Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?>>
No. Bernie has already said there will be no 3 car teams because the>> season started with the required 20 car grid.>>
That doesn't necessarily stop top teams from running three cars,> does it? McLaren, for instance, might find it beneficial. They are> only 4 points out of second place, and Wurz has been doing good work> of late. This may be a time when they could take the spot.

What part of "no 3 car teams" are you having trouble with?
--
John Briggs


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HooDooWitch 5 May 2005 19:46:57 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 05 May 2005 14:16:41 GMT, "John Briggs"
<john.briggs4@ntlwo­rld.com> wrote:
HooDooWitch wrote:>> On Thu, 5 May 2005 09:09:08 -0400, Brian Sullivan>> <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>>
Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?>>
No. The only possibility of that coming in was if there were less than>> 20 cars on the grid *at the start of the season*.>
We don't actually know that it is "less than 20".

Nice ;)

--
HooDooWitch
http://www.ianwhite­photo.co.uk
I'm into monkey business and business is booming.
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Ranjit 5 May 2005 20:50:55 permanent link ]
 John Briggs wrote:> Ace wrote:>
Geoff May wrote:>>
Brian Sullivan wrote:>>>
Does the BAR ban mean some teams will have 3 cars racing?>>>
No. Bernie has already said there will be no 3 car teams because the>>>season started with the required 20 car grid.>>>
That doesn't necessarily stop top teams from running three cars,>>does it? McLaren, for instance, might find it beneficial. They are>>only 4 points out of second place, and Wurz has been doing good work>>of late. This may be a time when they could take the spot.>
What part of "no 3 car teams" are you having trouble with?

LOL !!!
I guess he is still optimistic :)­.
Add comment
Phil Newnham 5 May 2005 21:01:49 permanent link ]
 Ace wrote:> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they> can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed from the> throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA> rules than I.>

Near the beginning of the sporting regs, IIRC.

--
Phil

http://www.usefilm.­com/photographer/313­07.html
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John Briggs 5 May 2005 21:06:41 permanent link ]
 Ace wrote:> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says> they can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed> from the throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser> to the FIA rules than I.

Undoubtedly. I also possess the ability to read:

"46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being
entered by each competitor."
--
John Briggs


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Geoff May 5 May 2005 21:08:18 permanent link ]
 Ace wrote:> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they> can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed from the> throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA> rules than I.

2005 Sporting Regulations:

46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being
entered by each competitor.

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 5th May, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
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Geoff May 5 May 2005 21:12:32 permanent link ]
 John Briggs wrote:> Ace wrote:>
The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says>>they can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed>>from the throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser>>to the FIA rules than I.>
Undoubtedly. I also possess the ability to read:>
"46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being > entered by each competitor."

You were quicker'n me but I was trying to find comments regarding the
3rd car. I didn't find anything so, either I missed it or else it's part
of the Concorde Agreement.

MfG

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 5th May, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
Add comment
John Briggs 5 May 2005 21:17:48 permanent link ]
 Geoff May wrote:> John Briggs wrote:>> Ace wrote:>>
The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says>>> they can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed>>> from the throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser>>> to the FIA rules than I.>>
Undoubtedly. I also possess the ability to read:>>
"46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two>> being entered by each competitor.">
You were quicker'n me but I was trying to find comments regarding the> 3rd car. I didn't find anything so, either I missed it or else it's> part of the Concorde Agreement.

Yes - from the rasf1m FAQ:

"The exact terms of the Concorde Agreement are not public, but what it
amounts to is that in return for contracting to show up at the GPs that make
up the World Championship the teams receive a cut of the monies that
FOA/SLEC takes in. Bernie's company guarantees to the TV companies and the
promoters of each F1 race that at least 12 (or perhaps 16, or 20 - sources
differ) cars will show up for the race (currently 20 do). The latest
version of the CA limits the size of the field for F1 championship GPs to 24
cars."
--
John Briggs


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Brian Sullivan 5 May 2005 22:36:24 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:08:18 +0200, Geoff May wrote:
Ace wrote:>> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they>> can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed from the>> throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA>> rules than I.>
2005 Sporting Regulations:>
46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being > entered by each competitor.>

If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each competitor"
would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).

To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two" wouldn't
it?
Add comment
John Briggs 5 May 2005 22:58:05 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan wrote:> On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:08:18 +0200, Geoff May wrote:>
Ace wrote:>>> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says>>> they can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed>>> from the throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser>>> to the FIA rules than I.>>
2005 Sporting Regulations:>>
46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two>> being entered by each competitor.>>
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each> competitor" would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two"> wouldn't it?

Only if you can get the ICA to agree with you :-)­
--
John Briggs


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Da Frank 5 May 2005 23:31:01 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 5 May 2005 14:36:24 -0400, Brian Sullivan
<briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each competitor">would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two" wouldn't>it?>
Right. It's obvious that you don't work for the FIA. So how are things
going at Bar ? ;-)­

--

Regards, Frank
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Brian Sullivan 6 May 2005 00:20:05 permanent link ]
 On Fri, 06 May 2005 05:31:01 +1000, Da Frank wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2005 14:36:24 -0400, Brian Sullivan> <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each competitor">>would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).>>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two" wouldn't>>it?>>
Right. It's obvious that you don't work for the FIA.

Absolutely correct.
So how are things> going at Bar ? ;-)­

If only.
Add comment
Ian Dalziel 6 May 2005 00:28:49 permanent link ]
 On 5 May 2005 09:54:13 -0700, "Ace" <lugsandace@yahoo.c­om> wrote:
The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they>can't run three cars?

Yes
Is there a formal announcement needed from the>throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA>rules than I.

Looks like it.

--

Ian
Add comment
Ian Dalziel 6 May 2005 00:32:56 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 5 May 2005 14:36:24 -0400, Brian Sullivan
<briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:
On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:08:18 +0200, Geoff May wrote:>
Ace wrote:>>> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they>>> can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed from the>>> throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA>>> rules than I.>>
2005 Sporting Regulations:>>
46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being >> entered by each competitor.>>
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each competitor">would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two" wouldn't>it?

Nope. It says two. Unqualified. That's two (2). Not one, not three. If
they enter three, that's three (3) they've entered. Not two (which
would have been two).

Are you with me so far?
--

Ian
Add comment
Brian Sullivan 6 May 2005 00:59:53 permanent link ]
 On Thu, 05 May 2005 21:32:56 +0100, Ian Dalziel wrote:
On Thu, 5 May 2005 14:36:24 -0400, Brian Sullivan> <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>
On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:08:18 +0200, Geoff May wrote:>>
Ace wrote:>>>> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that says they>>>> can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement needed from the>>>> throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you are wiser to the FIA>>>> rules than I.>>>
2005 Sporting Regulations:>>>
46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being >>> entered by each competitor.>>>
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each competitor">>would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of view).>>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two" wouldn't>>it?>
Nope. It says two. Unqualified.

Yes -- and running three or four would meet that requirement in any logic I
have seen.

That's two (2). Not one,

One would not meet the requirement you are right.
not three. If> they enter three, that's three (3) they've entered.

Ahh --- there is the interpretation problem -- if they ran 3 as I indicated
they would meet the requirement of running two.

To deal with this problem of lack of preciseness in logic the iff construct
is used -- but the FIA does not operate in the logical realm -- I forgot.

Are you with me so far?

No I agin' you -- though it doesn't really matter does it ;-)­
Add comment


Geoff May 6 May 2005 01:11:32 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan wrote:> On Thu, 05 May 2005 21:32:56 +0100, Ian Dalziel wrote:> [snipped]>
not three. If>>they enter three, that's three (3) they've entered.>
Ahh --- there is the interpretation problem -- if they ran 3 as I indicated> they would meet the requirement of running two.

Yeah, but you are using the "two" as in "at least two".
To deal with this problem of lack of preciseness in logic the iff construct> is used -- but the FIA does not operate in the logical realm -- I forgot.

No comment.
Are you with me so far?>
No I agin' you -- though it doesn't really matter does it ;-)­

No comment.

MfG and ;-)­

Geoff.

--
Unofficial F1 Database: http://glibs.ssmmdd­.co.uk/
Update: 5th May, 2005
USENET Email address is a spam trap, send Emails to address in the DB
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John Briggs 6 May 2005 02:28:18 permanent link ]
 Brian Sullivan wrote:> On Thu, 05 May 2005 21:32:56 +0100, Ian Dalziel wrote:>
On Thu, 5 May 2005 14:36:24 -0400, Brian Sullivan>> <briansullivan@WORM­TIREDcoursesbywire.c­om> wrote:>>
On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:08:18 +0200, Geoff May wrote:>>>
Ace wrote:>>>>> The question is, what is to stop them? Is there a rule that>>>>> says they can't run three cars? Is there a formal announcement>>>>> needed from the throne? I don't think there is, but perhaps you>>>>> are wiser to the FIA rules than I.>>>>
2005 Sporting Regulations:>>>>
46) No more than 24 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two>>>> being entered by each competitor.>>>>
If a competitor entered 3 cars -- "two being entered by each>>> competitor" would be satisfied (at least from a logic point of>>> view).>>>
To be explicit it would have to say "exactly two" or "only two">>> wouldn't it?>>
Nope. It says two. Unqualified.>
Yes -- and running three or four would meet that requirement in any> logic I have seen.>
That's two (2). Not one,>
One would not meet the requirement you are right.>
not three. If>> they enter three, that's three (3) they've entered.>
Ahh --- there is the interpretation problem -- if they ran 3 as I> indicated they would meet the requirement of running two.>
To deal with this problem of lack of preciseness in logic the iff> construct is used -- but the FIA does not operate in the logical> realm -- I forgot.>
Are you with me so far?>
No I agin' you -- though it doesn't really matter does it ;-)­

"First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no
more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of
the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither countest
thou two, excepting that thou then proceedest to three. Five is right out.
Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou
thy holy hand grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in my
sight, shall snuff it. (amen)"
--
John Briggs


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CarGuru > Formula-1 > 3 car teams 6 May 2005 02:28:18

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