Fuel tank sizes - San Marino GP

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Fuel tank sizes - San Marino GP
Dariusz 25 April 2005 00:11:20
	Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less? Dariusz
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Neutron 25 April 2005 00:36:39 [ permanent link ]
	"Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> Dariusz I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their tanks to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid.
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Racefan_Dan 25 April 2005 04:21:51 [ permanent link ]
	"neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...>> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari>> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than>> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?>> Dariusz> I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their > tanks> to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid. Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the lightweight Shell fuel that Ferrari uses. Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for later braking.
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Laz 25 April 2005 04:52:31 [ permanent link ]
	but the car has to meet a minimum weight requirement "Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.cjb.net> wrote in message news:lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca...> "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message> news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> >> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari> >> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than> >> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> >> Dariusz> > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their> > tanks> > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid.> Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the lightweight> Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for later> braking.>
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CatharticF1 25 April 2005 07:27:47 [ permanent link ]
	In article <lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca>, Race_news@focusit.cjb.net says...> "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message > news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> >> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari> >> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than> >> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> >> Dariusz> > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their > > tanks> > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid.> Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the lightweight > Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for later > braking. Well what sort of percentage difference are we talking about though? I'd be surprised if it were even a couple of percent. -- CatharticF1 "In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin on the US Constitution, 1787
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Graham Hodgson 25 April 2005 18:36:18 [ permanent link ]
	F2005: 0 of 2 wrote: but the car has to meet a minimum weight requirement> Empty of fuel. Where in the weight regulations does it say empty of fuel? Cheers Graham -- Make a little birdhouse in your soul.
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Neutron 25 April 2005 19:03:39 [ permanent link ]
	"CatharticF1" <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1cd700ab750211429896d2@news.bigpond.com...> In article <lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca>, Race_news@focusit.cjb.net> says...> > "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message> > news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> > >> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari> > >> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger than> > >> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> > >> Dariusz> > > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their> > > tanks> > > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid.> > Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the lightweight> > Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> > Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for later> > braking.> Well what sort of percentage difference are we talking about though? I'd> be surprised if it were even a couple of percent. Exactly. it's about 1% iirc. It's a small advantage (and assumes the other team's petrol suppliers aren't doing the same). My point still stands about the one-stopping though. Obviously the Ferrari's fuel tank wasn't big enough to do it.
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Racefan_Dan 25 April 2005 21:30:19 [ permanent link ]
	"Bigbird" <lay@work.nest> wrote in message news:5_2dnfWxLpOhjfDfRVnytg@pipex.net...>> simplistic example - numbers are for illustrative purposes only:>> min weight inc driver + fuel = 600 kg>> don't want car underweight with no fuel so, car + driver (empty) =>> 600 kg reg fuel = 1kg per litre.>> car + driver + 30 litres of fuel = 630 kg>> Shell fuel = 0.8kg per litre>> car + driver + 30 litres of fuel = 624kg>> You have 2 identical cars. Car #1 weighs 630kg, Car#2 weighs 624kg.>> Which car will come to a stop in a shorter distance? Answer: Car #2.>> There's your ability for later braking..> Illustrative however if you put more realistic figures in, even with a 4% > advantage the difference is less than 1Kg.> Significant at 4%, hardly 6Kg, however do you think 4% realistic. I have no idea. And you are right 4% is likely more realistic than the illustrative 20% in my example - and that the savings might only be a 1.2 kg in the above example (of 30 lires of fuel), and not 6kg - and see your point that braking performance is negligible.
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Richard Miller 25 April 2005 22:17:21 [ permanent link ]
	In message <3d4dj6F6ocengU1@individual.net>, Graham Hodgson <ttgmh@hotmail.com> writes>F2005: 0 of 2 wrote:> but the car has to meet a minimum weight requirement>> Empty of fuel.> Where in the weight regulations does it say empty of fuel?> By the sound of things, after the appeal against Button's exoneration by the stewards, the regulations may soon say just that. -- Richard Miller
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Bigbird 26 April 2005 02:53:40 [ permanent link ]
	Racefan_Dan wrote:> "Bigbird" <lay@work.nest> wrote in message> news:5_2dnfWxLpOhjfDfRVnytg@pipex.net...> > > simplistic example - numbers are for illustrative purposes only:> > > min weight inc driver + fuel = 600 kg> > > don't want car underweight with no fuel so, car + driver (empty) => > > 600 kg reg fuel = 1kg per litre.> > > car + driver + 30 litres of fuel = 630 kg> > > Shell fuel = 0.8kg per litre> > > car + driver + 30 litres of fuel = 624kg> > > You have 2 identical cars. Car #1 weighs 630kg, Car#2 weighs> > > 624kg. Which car will come to a stop in a shorter distance?> > > Answer: Car #2. There's your ability for later braking..> > Illustrative however if you put more realistic figures in, even> > with a 4% advantage the difference is less than 1Kg.> > Significant at 4%, hardly 6Kg, however do you think 4% realistic.> I have no idea. And you are right 4% is likely more realistic than the> illustrative 20% in my example - and that the savings might only be a> 1.2 kg in the above example (of 30 lires of fuel), and not 6kg - and> see your point that braking performance is negligible. Your 1.2Kg refers to water. F1 fuel must have a specific gravity of 0.72-0.775.
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CatharticF1 26 April 2005 09:39:37 [ permanent link ]
	In article <d4j0sa$oa2$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> says...> "CatharticF1" <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote in message> news:MPG.1cd700ab750211429896d2@news.bigpond.com...> > In article <lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca>, Race_news@focusit.cjb.net> > says...> > > "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message> > > news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > > > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > > > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> > > >> Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for once, Ferrari> > > >> actually designed and used for the F2005 a fuel tank that was larger> than> > > >> everyone elses ?! Or did everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> > > >> Dariusz> > > > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room in their> > > > tanks> > > > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the grid.> > > Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the lightweight> > > Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> > > Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for later> > > braking.> > Well what sort of percentage difference are we talking about though? I'd> > be surprised if it were even a couple of percent.> Exactly. it's about 1% iirc. It's a small advantage (and assumes the other> team's petrol suppliers aren't doing the same).> My point still stands about the one-stopping though. Obviously the Ferrari's> fuel tank wasn't big enough to do it. Yes. I was wondering the lap before he stopped if he could have gone to half way. At the least though it seems the Ferrari has the largest fuel tank. If he wasn't completely full though, they might be able to single stop Monza, or Monaco... -- CatharticF1 "In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin on the US Constitution, 1787
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Bigbird 26 April 2005 12:02:04 [ permanent link ]
	CatharticF1 wrote:> In article <d4j0sa$oa2$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "neutron"> <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> says...> > "CatharticF1" <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote in message> > news:MPG.1cd700ab750211429896d2@news.bigpond.com...> > > In article <lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca>,> > > Race_news@focusit.cjb.net says...> > > > "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message> > > > news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > > > > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > > > > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> > > > > > Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for> > > > > > once, Ferrari actually designed and used for the F2005 a> > > > > > fuel tank that was larger than everyone elses ?! Or did> > > > > > everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> > > > > > Dariusz> > > > > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room> > > > > in their tanks> > > > > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the> > > > > grid.> > > > Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the> > > > lightweight Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> > > > Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for> > > > later braking.> > > Well what sort of percentage difference are we talking about> > > though? I'd be surprised if it were even a couple of percent.> > Exactly. it's about 1% iirc. It's a small advantage (and assumes> > the other team's petrol suppliers aren't doing the same).> > My point still stands about the one-stopping though. Obviously the> > Ferrari's fuel tank wasn't big enough to do it.> Yes. I was wondering the lap before he stopped if he could have gone> to half way. At the least though it seems the Ferrari has the largest> fuel tank. How do you conclude that? MS wanted to go a few of laps further than his rivals. There is no reason to think that they would have wanted to one stop prior to Q2. Additionally there was nothing to suggest any other team could not have put more fuel in if they had thought it a better strategy.
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CatharticF1 27 April 2005 06:29:28 [ permanent link ]
	In article <RcGdnVX_wPjhaPDfRVnysQ@pipex.net>, lay@work.nest says...> CatharticF1 wrote:> > In article <d4j0sa$oa2$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "neutron"> > <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> says...> > > "CatharticF1" <eferrari@heaven.net> wrote in message> > > news:MPG.1cd700ab750211429896d2@news.bigpond.com...> > > > In article <lZGdnaUhZMODpfHfRVn-2g@aci.on.ca>,> > > > Race_news@focusit.cjb.net says...> > > > > "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message> > > > > news:d4h00n$jg4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...> > > > > > "Dariusz" <ng@lycaus.plusYOURSHIT.com> wrote in message> > > > > > news:426bfd68$0$562$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...> > > > > > > Looking at how the race was going. could it be that for> > > > > > > once, Ferrari actually designed and used for the F2005 a> > > > > > > fuel tank that was larger than everyone elses ?! Or did> > > > > > > everyone just put in a "little" bit less?> > > > > > > Dariusz> > > > > > I think the key thing here is if Ferrari had had enough room> > > > > > in their tanks> > > > > > to one-stop they would have won the race from the back of the> > > > > > grid.> > > > > Nah - I posted yesterday (or very early on Sunday) about the> > > > > lightweight Shell fuel that Ferrari uses.> > > > > Less weight, same volume = better fuel mileage and ability for> > > > > later braking.> > > > Well what sort of percentage difference are we talking about> > > > though? I'd be surprised if it were even a couple of percent.> > > Exactly. it's about 1% iirc. It's a small advantage (and assumes> > > the other team's petrol suppliers aren't doing the same).> > > My point still stands about the one-stopping though. Obviously the> > > Ferrari's fuel tank wasn't big enough to do it.> > Yes. I was wondering the lap before he stopped if he could have gone> > to half way. At the least though it seems the Ferrari has the largest> > fuel tank.> How do you conclude that?> MS wanted to go a few of laps further than his rivals. There is no reason to > think that they would have wanted to one stop prior to Q2. Additionally > there was nothing to suggest any other team could not have put more fuel in > if they had thought it a better strategy. Well it's an interesting thought - that any team could single stop a race. -- CatharticF1 "In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin on the US Constitution, 1787
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Fuel tank sizes - San Marino GP

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