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Explain this: ITV goes to break but TSN(Canada) continues with ITV commentary uninterrupted
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CarGuru > Formula-1 > Explain this: ITV goes to break but TSN(Canada) continues with ITV commentary uninterrupted 25 April 2005 18:23:33
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Explain this: ITV goes to break but TSN(Canada) continues with ITV commentary uninterrupted

Racefan_Dan 24 April 2005 20:52:58
 I had to apologize to an angry poster on a US-based motorsports forum - he
was spouting off about ITV and going to (what he said was 4-5minutes) of
adverts with only a few laps left -- and I (and others from Canada) told him
he was making stuff up:

HERE IN CANADA, WE SAW UNINTERRUPTED COVERAGE OF THE LAST 8 OR SO LAPS OF
ITV COMMENTARY WITH JAMES THE PRAT ALLEN AND MARTIN BRUNDLE.. YES, IT'S
TRUE: JAMES ALLEN *NEVER* SHUTS UP!
(in that case, be thankful for the adverts.. j/k).

Didn't I feel the fool when I came here afterwards and saw all the angry
complaints about ITV's late advert break. So this guy I said was talking BS
*wasn't* imagining things.

I am trying to fully understand this.. (though admittedly in a calmer manner
than anyone in the UK is right now). It's difficult to comprehend. I've been
watching TSN's ITV feed for years now and always believed that TSN took
their commercial-break cue from ITV. I don't recall ever hearing TSN go to
break while James or Murray was in mid-sentence and same goes for when they
return from adverts. In fact, we fairly often hear JA or MB say "while we
were away we missed this. here's a replay", so it is clear that TSN *does*
follow ITV's breaks.

So why:
1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race
2) Why did James and Martin continue to commentate without any noticeable
gaps or cues that they were either going-to or returning-from adverts??
(Again, I was completely oblivious to the fact that UK viewers had been
dropped and then rejoined).

Additional questions while we're at it:
On TSN, the audio feed was horrible the entire race - every 15 seconds or so
the ITV audio would cut out momentarily.
Did you in Britain suffer that?

On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen flicking to
black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the audio I think was
also crackly for a moment and then everything was fine again.
Did you in Britain suffer that?

I'll be watching the 3 different 'taped' broadcasts that I am also able to
enjoy here in Canada later today or this week:
- CBS (US cable) - at 1PM today
- CBC-French(Montreal­) - at 3PM today
- Speed Channel (US cable) - tape-delay till Friday @ midnight.

I wonder if they'll have the 'satellite glitch' or whatever that was near
the end of the race.

I can't help but think perhaps someone at ITV noticed the satellite feed
drop momentarily & jumped the gun and hit the 'advert button' instead of
waiting for the picture to come back. That would explain why Martin & James
continued in a manner that seemed to indicate they weren't aware of it. I
know that isn't really rational (the blip was less than 2 seconds, perhaps
even less than 1), but what other excuse can they possible use?

Interesting turn of events anyhow.


Add comment
Mike 24 April 2005 22:31:06 [ permanent link ]
 Racefan_Dan wrote:> I had to apologize to an angry poster on a US-based motorsports forum> - he was spouting off about ITV and going to (what he said was> 4-5minutes) of adverts with only a few laps left -- and I (and others> from Canada) told him he was making stuff up:>
HERE IN CANADA, WE SAW UNINTERRUPTED COVERAGE OF THE LAST 8 OR SO> LAPS OF ITV COMMENTARY WITH JAMES THE PRAT ALLEN AND MARTIN BRUNDLE..> YES, IT'S TRUE: JAMES ALLEN *NEVER* SHUTS UP!> (in that case, be thankful for the adverts.. j/k).>
Didn't I feel the fool when I came here afterwards and saw all the> angry complaints about ITV's late advert break. So this guy I said> was talking BS *wasn't* imagining things.>
I am trying to fully understand this.. (though admittedly in a calmer> manner than anyone in the UK is right now). It's difficult to> comprehend. I've been watching TSN's ITV feed for years now and> always believed that TSN took their commercial-break cue from ITV. I> don't recall ever hearing TSN go to break while James or Murray was> in mid-sentence and same goes for when they return from adverts. In> fact, we fairly often hear JA or MB say "while we were away we missed> this. here's a replay", so it is clear that TSN *does* follow ITV's> breaks.> So why:> 1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race> 2) Why did James and Martin continue to commentate without any> noticeable gaps or cues that they were either going-to or> returning-from adverts?? (Again, I was completely oblivious to the> fact that UK viewers had been dropped and then rejoined).>
Additional questions while we're at it:> On TSN, the audio feed was horrible the entire race - every 15> seconds or so the ITV audio would cut out momentarily.> Did you in Britain suffer that?>
On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen> flicking to black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the> audio I think was also crackly for a moment and then everything was> fine again. Did you in Britain suffer that?>
I'll be watching the 3 different 'taped' broadcasts that I am also> able to enjoy here in Canada later today or this week:> - CBS (US cable) - at 1PM today> - CBC-French(Montreal­) - at 3PM today> - Speed Channel (US cable) - tape-delay till Friday @ midnight.>
I wonder if they'll have the 'satellite glitch' or whatever that was> near the end of the race.>
I can't help but think perhaps someone at ITV noticed the satellite> feed drop momentarily & jumped the gun and hit the 'advert button'> instead of waiting for the picture to come back. That would explain> why Martin & James continued in a manner that seemed to indicate they> weren't aware of it. I know that isn't really rational (the blip was> less than 2 seconds, perhaps even less than 1), but what other excuse> can they possible use?> Interesting turn of events anyhow.


just be happy.....i was......and I also was on the edge of my chair!!!!
good Alonso!!!
--

\\Mike
----------------


Add comment
Probert 24 April 2005 23:08:42 [ permanent link ]
 
"Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.­cjb.net> wrote in message
news:8PGdncu_xOZ2U_­bfRVn-3w@aci.on.ca..­.>I had to apologize to an angry poster on a US-based motorsports forum - he >was spouting off about ITV and going to (what he said was 4-5minutes) of >adverts with only a few laps left -- and I (and others from Canada) told >him he was making stuff up:>
HERE IN CANADA, WE SAW UNINTERRUPTED COVERAGE OF THE LAST 8 OR SO LAPS OF > ITV COMMENTARY WITH JAMES THE PRAT ALLEN AND MARTIN BRUNDLE.. YES, IT'S > TRUE: JAMES ALLEN *NEVER* SHUTS UP!> (in that case, be thankful for the adverts.. j/k).>
Didn't I feel the fool when I came here afterwards and saw all the angry > complaints about ITV's late advert break. So this guy I said was talking > BS *wasn't* imagining things.>
I am trying to fully understand this.. (though admittedly in a calmer > manner than anyone in the UK is right now). It's difficult to comprehend. > I've been watching TSN's ITV feed for years now and always believed that > TSN took their commercial-break cue from ITV. I don't recall ever hearing > TSN go to break while James or Murray was in mid-sentence and same goes > for when they return from adverts. In fact, we fairly often hear JA or MB > say "while we were away we missed this. here's a replay", so it is clear > that TSN *does* follow ITV's breaks.>
So why:> 1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race

It was unannounced. ITV - normally - have a planned break anywhere between 8
and 5 laps from the end of a race which is announced by either Allen or
Brundle. I believe there is an 'override' option for the local (trackside)
ITV director to stay with the race during a planned break - particularly
near the end of a race.

It didn't happen this time presumably because the on site (ie at Imola) ITV
producer could see that the Schumacher/Alonso battle was some of the most
enthralling racing we've seen for years - and I imagine, he/she has the
option to not call for the set commercial break, but the message didn't get
through to either London or Birmingham.

I'm fairly certain that the, frankly, daft commercial break we got in the UK
came from the UK based overall 'presentation' director - who just sits in a
darkened room cueing ad breaks.

Whilst not knowing what happened, I wouldn't immediately blame the ITVF1
production team for this - though I think they should have made a call to
the presentation centre to not play out the planned commercial break -
particularly when there was another planned break 2 mins later immediately
after the race.
2) Why did James and Martin continue to commentate without any noticeable > gaps or cues that they were either going-to or returning-from adverts??

First because they clearly didn't know the break was coming in the UK.
Second, there's a highlights programme to put together so stopping
commentating during one of the most exciting (etc).... would sound stupid,
even if edited and over-dubbed properly.

(Again, I was completely oblivious to the fact that UK viewers had been > dropped and then rejoined).>
Additional questions while we're at it:> On TSN, the audio feed was horrible the entire race - every 15 seconds or > so the ITV audio would cut out momentarily.> Did you in Britain suffer that?

No.
On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen flicking > to black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the audio I think > was also crackly for a moment and then everything was fine again.> Did you in Britain suffer that?

No.
I'll be watching the 3 different 'taped' broadcasts that I am also able to > enjoy here in Canada later today or this week:> - CBS (US cable) - at 1PM today> - CBC-French(Montreal­) - at 3PM today> - Speed Channel (US cable) - tape-delay till Friday @ midnight.>
I wonder if they'll have the 'satellite glitch' or whatever that was near > the end of the race.

Possible - if they're using the same satellite to beam the pictures from
Europe to North America.
I can't help but think perhaps someone at ITV noticed the satellite feed > drop momentarily & jumped the gun and hit the 'advert button' instead of > waiting for the picture to come back.

Nothing to do with it. It was - almost certainly - a local (ie UK) screw up
/ decision.

That would explain why Martin & James> continued in a manner that seemed to indicate they weren't aware of it. I > know that isn't really rational (the blip was less than 2 seconds, perhaps > even less than 1), but what other excuse can they possible use?>
Interesting turn of events anyhow.

Cheers,
Probert.



Add comment
Bootboy 24 April 2005 23:12:23 [ permanent link ]
 
"Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.­cjb.net> wrote in message
news:8PGdncu_xOZ2U_­bfRVn-3w@aci.on.ca..­.> So why:> 1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race
Because they:
A) Don't have the same contractual obligations to show the same number of
adverts as ITV.
B) They have a bit of common sense and realise the outcry this kind of
stupidity would cause.
2) Why did James and Martin continue to commentate without any noticeable > gaps or cues that they were either going-to or returning-from adverts??
For the simple reason that the ITV commentary feed is used by other
countries who don't necessarily show adverts in the same places. Also, the
race is shown as a highlights package by ITV later on the day of the race,
where they don't take advert breaks in awkward places. The commentary team
therefore commentates on the entire race so that if something happens during
an advert in the live race there won't be missing commentary when they show
it in the highlights.
Additional questions while we're at it:> On TSN, the audio feed was horrible the entire race - every 15 seconds or > so the ITV audio would cut out momentarily.> Did you in Britain suffer that?
Nope. Is suffer the right word to use to describe missing James Allen's
commentary?
On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen flicking > to black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the audio I think > was also crackly for a moment and then everything was fine again.> Did you in Britain suffer that?
Nope. My TV did however suffer a large hole in the screen when it was struck
with a large object with 3 laps remaining.

bootboy


Add comment
Moe Syslak 24 April 2005 23:19:00 [ permanent link ]
 bootboy <spamgoestohere@hot­mail.com> wrote in message:
news:<d4gr1u$b20$1@­domitilla.aioe.org>>­
"Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.­cjb.net> wrote in message > news:8PGdncu_xOZ2U_­bfRVn-3w@aci.on.ca..­.> > So why:> > 1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race> Because they:> A) Don't have the same contractual obligations to show the same number of > adverts as ITV.

Why would they? They're in Canada and have no connection at all to ITV.
B) They have a bit of common sense and realise the outcry this kind of > stupidity would cause.>
They (TSN) did a better job of budgeting their commercial time, or they
simply had fewer to show because the broadcast time was 8:00 AM EST - not
exactly prime time viewing.

<...>>
On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen flicking > > to black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the audio I think > > was also crackly for a moment and then everything was fine again.> > Did you in Britain suffer that?> Nope. My TV did however suffer a large hole in the screen when it was struck > with a large object with 3 laps remaining.

LOL!
Add comment
Ruddell 24 April 2005 23:30:45 [ permanent link ]
 In <SBRae.1256$gA5.704­85@news20.bellglobal­.com> Mike wrote:

just be happy.....i was......and I also was on the edge of my chair!!!! > good Alonso!!!


For a while TSN was having a picture in picture during commercial breaks
but that seems to be gone now. Guess it's obvious why they don't have
it anymore, but it was a nice feature...


--
Cheers

Dennis

Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
Add comment
Doug Main 25 April 2005 02:53:27 [ permanent link ]
 As near as we can tell, it was on 4/24/2005 10:52 AM when Racefan_Dan
transmitted as follows:

Additional questions while we're at it:> On TSN, the audio feed was horrible the entire race - every 15 seconds or so > the ITV audio would cut out momentarily.> Did you in Britain suffer that?

The audio portion we lost was the commentators--all of them, including
the Fisi invu. Ambient track sounds were still available the entire
time. Audio must be arriving at the TSN head end on two channels, with
one cutting in and out.>
On TSN, at some point in the last 10 laps, I remember the screen flicking to > black(fuzz) as though the satelitte feed went down, the audio I think was > also crackly for a moment and then everything was fine again.> Did you in Britain suffer that?

With the end of the race actually being exciting (for the first time in
how many???) I gurgled a bit when the video went to black, but it came
back in a few seconds.
I'll be watching the 3 different 'taped' broadcasts that I am also able to > enjoy here in Canada later today or this week:> - CBS (US cable) - at 1PM today> - CBC-French(Montreal­) - at 3PM today> - Speed Channel (US cable) - tape-delay till Friday @ midnight.>

When I tape F1 races, I usually go with TSN to get the ITV feed, mainly
because the guys are actually at the track, not in a studio in
Charlotte. Plus, David Hobbs never shuts up, interrupts and steps on
Varsha, et al, and, oh yeah, they're not really at the track.

I tape becuase most races are on at 5AM here in the MDT zone.


--
Doug Main
"Hard work never killed anyone. But why take the chance?"
-Roy, metal worker, American Hotrod.
Add comment
Racefan_Dan 25 April 2005 07:22:22 [ permanent link ]
 "bootboy" <spamgoestohere@hot­mail.com> wrote in message
news:d4gr1u$b20$1@d­omitilla.aioe.org...­>
"Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.­cjb.net> wrote in message> news:8PGdncu_xOZ2U_­bfRVn-3w@aci.on.ca..­.>> So why:>> 1) Did TSN not follow ITV's advert break near the end of the race> Because they:> A) Don't have the same contractual obligations to show the same number of> adverts as ITV.

From another post (ITV apology):
"ITV are committed to fit in five commercial breaks, each about three
minutes long."

The first race of the year at least, I was keeping track, and TSN had 5
breaks during the race and 1 post-race - which fits in perfectly with ITV's
commitments/'schedu­le'.
B) They have a bit of common sense and realise the outcry this kind of> stupidity would cause.
Sure, but I had always thought the only option would be to show the ITV-feed
video and race-audio with TSN's studio presenter Vic Rauter and/or Gerald
Donaldson (via phone at the track) filling in the commentary until James &
Martin returned. They've *never* done that before. Your next statement
(below) would explain why this might not happen (ie: J&M are still yakking).
I'm still not sold on this explanation though..
2) Why did James and Martin continue to commentate without any noticeable>> gaps or cues that they were either going-to or returning-from adverts??> For the simple reason that the ITV commentary feed is used by other> countries who don't necessarily show adverts in the same places. Also, the> race is shown as a highlights package by ITV later on the day of the race,> where they don't take advert breaks in awkward places. The commentary team> therefore commentates on the entire race so that if something happens > during> an advert in the live race there won't be missing commentary when they > show> it in the highlights.

How does it work when Martin says "here's a replay of what you just missed
while we were away"??
How is it that TSN can always find the perfect moment within 1-2 seconds of
returning from commercials to "fade-in" to the ITV commentary and always
have J or M starting at the beginning of a sentence, not to mention not in
mid-ramble?

What you suggested does of course make sense, re: the highlights package.
However, it would be logical to me that if I am a broadcaster in a foreign
country using ITV's feed (that is, audio+video), I mirror my breaks when ITV
does. It keeps things easy. If that doesn't meet my needs, there is always
the option to get the world video-feed and do my own commentary. Both have
their advantages, both have their disadvantages.

I'm going to email TSN to get their explanation.. and also use it to thank
them for the excellent coverage that they provide.
We got the full post-race interviews as well.. I noticed on the CBS
tape-delay broadcast that they snipped them short!


Add comment
Vile Merchant 25 April 2005 11:00:54 [ permanent link ]
 "Racefan_Dan" <Race_news@focusit.­cjb.net> wrote in message
news:K9GdnehM9rX3__­HfRVn-1w@aci.on.ca..­.> How does it work when Martin says "here's a replay of what you just missed> while we were away"??

We get that in Australia sometimes where James says 'here's what you just
missed' and begins commentating to some replay that is obviously being shown
to the UK viewers, but here in Australia we're still looking at the live
feed.


Add comment
Racefan_Dan 25 April 2005 17:42:56 [ permanent link ]
 "Bob Dubery" <megapode@gmail.com­> wrote in message
news:1114421705.490­569.7000@z14g2000cwz­.googlegroups.com...­> I watch on Supersport in South Africa and we get> uninterrupted coverage.>
What ITV do do is pause for a couple of seconds when ITV in the UK> would be going to ads and then carry on for the benefit of anybody> else. This also explains why sometimes you hear James and/or Martin> explaining things twice or talking about replays that you can't see -> something happened whilst the ads were being shown in the UK and so> they are recapping for the benfit of viewers who have just rejoined.>
The bad audio quality you refer to was not universal. Here in SA we had> crystal clear commentary.

Ah, in that case ITV (& TSN) does a very good job of making it oblivious to
their viewers.
Interesting about the audio too - it was really annoying and never happened
before.
Thanks for both of those comments.


Add comment
Doug Main 25 April 2005 18:23:33 [ permanent link ]
 As near as we can tell, it was on 4/25/2005 3:35 AM when Bob Dubery
transmitted as follows:
Note that ITV have no idea of when anybody's going to take commercial> breaks. So, as I understand it, they cater for their own schedule and> presume that everybody else who buys their commentary goes without> interruption. I watch on Supersport in South Africa and we get> uninterrupted coverage.>
What ITV do do is pause for a couple of seconds when ITV in the UK> would be going to ads and then carry on for the benefit of anybody> else. This also explains why sometimes you hear James and/or Martin> explaining things twice or talking about replays that you can't see -> something happened whilst the ads were being shown in the UK and so> they are recapping for the benfit of viewers who have just rejoined.>

The commentators are cued when to take breaks. The are usually given 2
min, 1 min, 30 sec 20, 10, 9, 8, etc. Then, the announcer concludes his
thought with an obvious out cue. Some broadcasters requires a standard
cue, "World Championship Tiddly Winks returns after this..." but the ITV
gang prefers a simple conclusion to a thought, "...Alonso's still 23
seconds out front..." This allows them to carry on with commentating
for the non-commercial recipients while others have a spot to insert ads.

Additional difficulty comes with the fact that all commentators are
working with a pooled F1 feed, usually supplied by a local broadcaster.
They have little or no control over selection or timing of replays,
the kinds of shots the play-by-play camera is selecting, which aspects
of the race are being covered, etc.

--
Doug Main
"Hard work never killed anyone. But why take the chance?"
-Roy, metal worker, American Hotrod.
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CarGuru > Formula-1 > Explain this: ITV goes to break but TSN(Canada) continues with ITV commentary uninterrupted 25 April 2005 18:23:33
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