1965 Mustang PS Conversion

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1965 Mustang PS Conversion
Chris 2 March 2005 21:27:13
	Hi, Trying to convert my 65 Mustang from Manual to Power Steering. Does anyone know if the Steering Box needs to be changed? Or do I just need the Control Valve and Slave Cylinder? Thanks
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Guest 2 March 2005 22:03:02 [ permanent link ]
	The PS steering box is quicker than the manual one, 16:1 vs. 19:1. The PS setup also uses longer idler and Pitman arms. I wouldn't worry about changing the box, but I would get the longer arms, which are marketed as the "Shelby quick steer" kit. You also need a PS drag link, aka center link, but you probably already know that. 180 Out
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Spike 3 March 2005 00:52:00 [ permanent link ]
	Or you can go with a bolt in rack and pinion. Get the kit with the tilt steering column: ) I've been eyeing the www.mustangsplus.com RP&Tilt kit. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:27:13 -0600, Chris <sales@pinballroms.com> wrote: Hi,>Trying to convert my 65 Mustang from Manual to Power Steering. Does>anyone know if the Steering Box needs to be changed? Or do I just>need the Control Valve and Slave Cylinder?> Thanks Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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.boB 3 March 2005 03:38:56 [ permanent link ]
	Spike wrote:> Or you can go with a bolt in rack and pinion. Get the kit with the> tilt steering column: ) I've been eyeing the www.mustangsplus.com> RP&Tilt kit.> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:27:13 -0600, Chris <sales@pinballroms.com>> wrote:> Hi,>>Trying to convert my 65 Mustang from Manual to Power Steering. Does>>anyone know if the Steering Box needs to be changed? Or do I just>>need the Control Valve and Slave Cylinder?>> I used the R&P manual kit from Mustangs Plus. I had factory PS, but (as has been said) it's not very accurate, and it leaked a lot. It's also heavy, and the factory pump robs enough power to be noticeable. I have to admit I don't much like it. The ad says, "Manual steering that feels like power". Don't believe it. It fells good when driving down the road. Very smooth and precise. But low speed maneuvers do require some muscle; much more than my Cobra. If Flaming River ever makes a power rack for this conversion, I'll be buying one. I'm also looking closely at this kit called "Steeroids". If I had seen that a few months sooner, I would have bought it. -- .boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project
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Spike 3 March 2005 08:51:39 [ permanent link ]
	I thought Flaming River had begun producing a bolt in R&P matched to their tilt column. I know that with the kit you do not need to cut the column shaft as you do when you buy only the column. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:38:56 -0700, ".boB" <bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote: Spike wrote:>> Or you can go with a bolt in rack and pinion. Get the kit with the>> tilt steering column: ) I've been eyeing the www.mustangsplus.com>> RP&Tilt kit.>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:27:13 -0600, Chris <sales@pinballroms.com>>> wrote:>> Hi,>>>Trying to convert my 65 Mustang from Manual to Power Steering. Does>>>anyone know if the Steering Box needs to be changed? Or do I just>>>need the Control Valve and Slave Cylinder?>>> I used the R&P manual kit from Mustangs Plus. I >had factory PS, but (as has been said) it's not very >accurate, and it leaked a lot. It's also heavy, and >the factory pump robs enough power to be noticeable.> I have to admit I don't much like it. The ad >says, "Manual steering that feels like power". Don't >believe it. It fells good when driving down the road. > Very smooth and precise. But low speed maneuvers do >require some muscle; much more than my Cobra.> If Flaming River ever makes a power rack for this >conversion, I'll be buying one. I'm also looking >closely at this kit called "Steeroids". If I had seen >that a few months sooner, I would have bought it. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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.boB 4 March 2005 04:52:11 [ permanent link ]
	Spike wrote:> I thought Flaming River had begun producing a bolt in R&P matched to> their tilt column. I know that with the kit you do not need to cut the> column shaft as you do when you buy only the column. Yes, that's the kit I used. You rip out all the old junk, from the steering wheel to the spindles, and install their kit. -- .boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project
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Spike 4 March 2005 07:25:45 [ permanent link ]
	I know the column is Flaming River, but isn't the R&P Flaming River as well? Overall, what did you think? quality, ease of install, etc.... On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:52:11 -0700, ".boB" <bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote: Spike wrote:>> I thought Flaming River had begun producing a bolt in R&P matched to>> their tilt column. I know that with the kit you do not need to cut the>> column shaft as you do when you buy only the column.> Yes, that's the kit I used. You rip out all the >old junk, from the steering wheel to the spindles, and >install their kit. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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Wound Up 4 March 2005 09:13:29 [ permanent link ]
	.boB wrote:> Spike wrote:> Or you can go with a bolt in rack and pinion. Get the kit with the>> tilt steering column: ) I've been eyeing the www.mustangsplus.com>> RP&Tilt kit.>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:27:13 -0600, Chris <sales@pinballroms.com>>> wrote:>> Hi,>>> Trying to convert my 65 Mustang from Manual to Power Steering. Does>>> anyone know if the Steering Box needs to be changed? Or do I just>>> need the Control Valve and Slave Cylinder?>>> I used the R&P manual kit from Mustangs Plus. I had factory PS, but > (as has been said) it's not very accurate, and it leaked a lot. It's > also heavy, and the factory pump robs enough power to be noticeable. Yes, I also noticed the reduced drag, and noise. Less float, too. I have to admit I don't much like it. The ad says, "Manual steering > that feels like power". Don't believe it. It fells good when driving > down the road. Very smooth and precise. But low speed maneuvers do > require some muscle; much more than my Cobra. The increased effort is true, even the best MS setup doesn't feel -at all- like PS. It does feel better overall IMO. It improves road feel considerably, as Bob mentioned. It took me a few months to acclimate to how manual steering cars like to be turned, while rolling -just- a little bit. There are times I curse it, but they are few. Also, this tidbit - my '67 is set to +1 deg. caster (I believe -0.5 deg. is the stock caster setting), and while this actually increases steering effort, it makes the car track better. This rec. came from an old geezer curmudgeon (not ByM). It is well worth it. If Flaming River ever makes a power rack for this conversion, I'll be > buying one. I'm also looking closely at this kit called "Steeroids". > If I had seen that a few months sooner, I would have bought it. With R&P, also keep in mind header interference, and other things. I've considered R&P, but to me, it's just not worth the expense. I'll put those $ into horsepower and paint, and deal with the bump-steering, skittish factory steering characteristics. And with MS, put the thing into a power-on (or off) slide with a tight, even factory-spec suspension, and it'll naturally correct itself. You just have to know how and when to catch it, then reel it in. It's a lot more fun than the mushy PS setup, to me. My suggestion? Unless you've got a BB, get a 16:1 box, and just grease everything well every 6 mo..... my ten cents -- Wound Up ThunderSnake #65
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Spike 4 March 2005 10:30:14 [ permanent link ]
	As I recall, if you only do the column (of which I think I have seen 2 versions- one 12 position and one a 5 position) there is a point where you need to use the sawzall anyway. I had RP in my MG Midget. The day I bought it, they opened up the showroom window/doors so I could drive it out onto the highway. I did. As I turned left onto the northbound lane, I found myself going sideways. Shocked the heck out of the Japanese drivers all around me. And we served dinner on my spouse's dinner plate sized eyes... LOL It's going to be a while before I get to RP. Too many higher priority things on the list. I'm putting a bump steer kit on it anyway. The negative wedge is on it already (Vintage Wheel Works said it was necessary to go to the bigger wheels. No they don't sell them, so it wasn't for the sale... and I could have bought one anywhere. They just feel the handling is better. I may do the column though. I have a lot of cross country travel to do (Kate- ice the beer, I gotta be in Ohio the 23rd or 30th of April... ) and comfort is high on the priority list. On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:00:56 -0700, ".boB" <bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote: Spike wrote:> I know the column is Flaming River, but isn't the R&P Flaming River as>> well?>> Overall, what did you think? quality, ease of install, etc....> Yes, it's all built by FR, column, rack, U-joints, >cradle, etc. It think it's a pretty good quality, but >there were a couple of things I was not happy with.> I've used FR racks before, and never had any >problems. I have one in my Cobra kit. They are >smooth, long lasting, and fit the application well. >I've never heard of one failing.> The cradle fit almost exactly as designed. There >was a poorly done weld on my car (not the cradle) that >I had to modify for. And the right side rack bracket >hit the starter motor, so I had to modify that a >little. But the rack and cradle really was a simple >bolt on affair.> There are separate parts for headers and >non-headers applications.> The U-joints are very high quality. I think they >are the best in the business.> The column was another matter. It's a tilt, but >only seems to have two positions. I had some trouble >getting it wired correctly, the instructions were not >exactly correct. I used the service manual to get that >right. The floor plate is held to the column by two >cheesy little #6 sheet metal screws. I added two steel >#10 nutserts in their place, and two stainless bolts. >And the column feels rough when you turn it, it makes a >slight scraping noise. All in all, a shoddy piece of work.> If I were to do it again, I would use the FR rack >and cradle, and go to Iditit for the column. If you >want power steering, go to Steeroids or Total Control.> And here's another little tip that nobody has >mentioned before. You know the stock '65 steering >column and box are one piece, affectionately known as >the "Thoracic Impaler". There is no way you're going >to get that out in one piece with the engine in place. > That's where a sawzall comes in. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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Wound Up 4 March 2005 16:47:04 [ permanent link ]
	Spike wrote:> As I recall, if you only do the column (of which I think I have seen 2> versions- one 12 position and one a 5 position) there is a point where> you need to use the sawzall anyway. > I had RP in my MG Midget. The day I bought it, they opened up the> showroom window/doors so I could drive it out onto the highway. I did.> As I turned left onto the northbound lane, I found myself going> sideways. Shocked the heck out of the Japanese drivers all around me.> And we served dinner on my spouse's dinner plate sized eyes... LOL> It's going to be a while before I get to RP. Too many higher priority> things on the list. I'm putting a bump steer kit on it anyway. The> negative wedge is on it already (Vintage Wheel Works said it was> necessary to go to the bigger wheels. No they don't sell them, so it> wasn't for the sale... How are those bump-steer kits? Any brand recs? Negative wedge... wasn't for sale? Me confused.. and I could have bought one anywhere. They just> feel the handling is better. I may do the column though. I have a lot> of cross country travel to do (Kate- ice the beer, I gotta be in Ohio> the 23rd or 30th of April... ) and comfort is high on the priority> list. > On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:00:56 -0700, ".boB"> <bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote:> Spike wrote:>> I know the column is Flaming River, but isn't the R&P Flaming River as>>>well?>>> Overall, what did you think? quality, ease of install, etc....>> Yes, it's all built by FR, column, rack, U-joints, >>cradle, etc. It think it's a pretty good quality, but >>there were a couple of things I was not happy with.>> I've used FR racks before, and never had any >>problems. I have one in my Cobra kit. They are >>smooth, long lasting, and fit the application well. >>I've never heard of one failing.>> The cradle fit almost exactly as designed. There >>was a poorly done weld on my car (not the cradle) that >>I had to modify for. And the right side rack bracket >>hit the starter motor, so I had to modify that a >>little. But the rack and cradle really was a simple >>bolt on affair.>> There are separate parts for headers and >>non-headers applications.>> The U-joints are very high quality. I think they >>are the best in the business.>> The column was another matter. It's a tilt, but >>only seems to have two positions. I had some trouble >>getting it wired correctly, the instructions were not >>exactly correct. I used the service manual to get that >>right. The floor plate is held to the column by two >>cheesy little #6 sheet metal screws. I added two steel >>#10 nutserts in their place, and two stainless bolts. >>And the column feels rough when you turn it, it makes a >>slight scraping noise. All in all, a shoddy piece of work.>> If I were to do it again, I would use the FR rack >>and cradle, and go to Iditit for the column. If you >>want power steering, go to Steeroids or Total Control.>> And here's another little tip that nobody has >>mentioned before. You know the stock '65 steering >>column and box are one piece, affectionately known as >>the "Thoracic Impaler". There is no way you're going >>to get that out in one piece with the engine in place. >> That's where a sawzall comes in.> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 -- Wound Up ThunderSnake #65
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Spike 4 March 2005 22:24:31 [ permanent link ]
	The negative wedge kit lowers the front end in what is generally refereed to as a "Cobra drop" (though amount of drop varies). These were available from Summit, Mustangs Plus, etc. Vintage wheel works, who said I needed one with their Vintage 40 wheels when I up sized to 16" doesn't sell them, so it's not like they say that just to sell you something else. This in turn, leads to a minor problem involving the anti-sway bar during turns. The bump steer kit is like a spacer for the bar, lowering and insulating the mount points. Note that this is not the techno jargon but a simplified explanation. Reportedly, the kit (in this case from Mustangs Plus) eliminates the bump steer effect. Won't really know until I try it, but it's worth it to me, and a few people in the club (local) suggested it as a good move. On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:47:04 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal> wrote: Spike wrote:>> As I recall, if you only do the column (of which I think I have seen 2>> versions- one 12 position and one a 5 position) there is a point where>> you need to use the sawzall anyway. >> I had RP in my MG Midget. The day I bought it, they opened up the>> showroom window/doors so I could drive it out onto the highway. I did.>> As I turned left onto the northbound lane, I found myself going>> sideways. Shocked the heck out of the Japanese drivers all around me.>> And we served dinner on my spouse's dinner plate sized eyes... LOL>> It's going to be a while before I get to RP. Too many higher priority>> things on the list. I'm putting a bump steer kit on it anyway. The>> negative wedge is on it already (Vintage Wheel Works said it was>> necessary to go to the bigger wheels. No they don't sell them, so it>> wasn't for the sale... > How are those bump-steer kits? Any brand recs?>Negative wedge... wasn't for sale? Me confused..> and I could have bought one anywhere. They just>> feel the handling is better. I may do the column though. I have a lot>> of cross country travel to do (Kate- ice the beer, I gotta be in Ohio>> the 23rd or 30th of April... ) and comfort is high on the priority>> list. >> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:00:56 -0700, ".boB">> <bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote:>> Spike wrote:>>> I know the column is Flaming River, but isn't the R&P Flaming River as>>>>well?>>>> Overall, what did you think? quality, ease of install, etc....>>> Yes, it's all built by FR, column, rack, U-joints, >>>cradle, etc. It think it's a pretty good quality, but >>>there were a couple of things I was not happy with.>>> I've used FR racks before, and never had any >>>problems. I have one in my Cobra kit. They are >>>smooth, long lasting, and fit the application well. >>>I've never heard of one failing.>>> The cradle fit almost exactly as designed. There >>>was a poorly done weld on my car (not the cradle) that >>>I had to modify for. And the right side rack bracket >>>hit the starter motor, so I had to modify that a >>>little. But the rack and cradle really was a simple >>>bolt on affair.>>> There are separate parts for headers and >>>non-headers applications.>>> The U-joints are very high quality. I think they >>>are the best in the business.>>> The column was another matter. It's a tilt, but >>>only seems to have two positions. I had some trouble >>>getting it wired correctly, the instructions were not >>>exactly correct. I used the service manual to get that >>>right. The floor plate is held to the column by two >>>cheesy little #6 sheet metal screws. I added two steel >>>#10 nutserts in their place, and two stainless bolts. >>>And the column feels rough when you turn it, it makes a >>>slight scraping noise. All in all, a shoddy piece of work.>>> If I were to do it again, I would use the FR rack >>>and cradle, and go to Iditit for the column. If you >>>want power steering, go to Steeroids or Total Control.>>> And here's another little tip that nobody has >>>mentioned before. You know the stock '65 steering >>>column and box are one piece, affectionately known as >>>the "Thoracic Impaler". There is no way you're going >>>to get that out in one piece with the engine in place. >>> That's where a sawzall comes in.>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8">> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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Wound Up 4 March 2005 23:08:04 [ permanent link ]
	Spike wrote:> The negative wedge kit lowers the front end in what is generally> refereed to as a "Cobra drop" (though amount of drop varies).> These were available from Summit, Mustangs Plus, etc. Vintage wheel> works, who said I needed one with their Vintage 40 wheels when I up> sized to 16" doesn't sell them, so it's not like they say that just to> sell you something else. Gotcha... this is not the Shelby upper control arm, lowering, is it (you do have a '65), it's just lowering the ride height? This in turn, leads to a minor problem involving the anti-sway bar> during turns. The bump steer kit is like a spacer for the bar,> lowering and insulating the mount points. I've seen articles on it. I've heard it can be used to absorb bump steer on all early Mustangs... Note that this is not the techno jargon but a simplified explanation. > Reportedly, the kit (in this case from Mustangs Plus) eliminates the> bump steer effect. Won't really know until I try it, but it's worth it> to me, and a few people in the club (local) suggested it as a good> move. If you remember, let me know how the bump steer hardware works... I'm curious.. thanks On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:47:04 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal> wrote:> Spike wrote:>> As I recall, if you only do the column (of which I think I have seen 2>>>versions- one 12 position and one a 5 position) there is a point where>>>you need to use the sawzall anyway. >>> I had RP in my MG Midget. The day I bought it, they opened up the>>>showroom window/doors so I could drive it out onto the highway. I did.>>>As I turned left onto the northbound lane, I found myself going>>>sideways. Shocked the heck out of the Japanese drivers all around me.>>>And we served dinner on my spouse's dinner plate sized eyes... LOL>>> It's going to be a while before I get to RP. Too many higher priority>>>things on the list. I'm putting a bump steer kit on it anyway. The>>>negative wedge is on it already (Vintage Wheel Works said it was>>>necessary to go to the bigger wheels. No they don't sell them, so it>>>wasn't for the sale... >> How are those bump-steer kits? Any brand recs?>>Negative wedge... wasn't for sale? Me confused..>> and I could have bought one anywhere. They just>> feel the handling is better. I may do the column though. I have a lot>>>of cross country travel to do (Kate- ice the beer, I gotta be in Ohio>>>the 23rd or 30th of April... ) and comfort is high on the priority>>>list. >>> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:00:56 -0700, ".boB">>><bobcowan@access4less.nospam.net> wrote:>>> Spike wrote:>>>> I know the column is Flaming River, but isn't the R&P Flaming River as>>>>>well?>>>>> Overall, what did you think? quality, ease of install, etc....>>>> Yes, it's all built by FR, column, rack, U-joints, >>>>cradle, etc. It think it's a pretty good quality, but >>>>there were a couple of things I was not happy with.>>>> I've used FR racks before, and never had any >>>>problems. I have one in my Cobra kit. They are >>>>smooth, long lasting, and fit the application well. >>>>I've never heard of one failing.>>>> The cradle fit almost exactly as designed. There >>>>was a poorly done weld on my car (not the cradle) that >>>>I had to modify for. And the right side rack bracket >>>>hit the starter motor, so I had to modify that a >>>>little. But the rack and cradle really was a simple >>>>bolt on affair.>>>> There are separate parts for headers and >>>>non-headers applications.>>>> The U-joints are very high quality. I think they >>>>are the best in the business.>>>> The column was another matter. It's a tilt, but >>>>only seems to have two positions. I had some trouble >>>>getting it wired correctly, the instructions were not >>>>exactly correct. I used the service manual to get that >>>>right. The floor plate is held to the column by two >>>>cheesy little #6 sheet metal screws. I added two steel >>>>#10 nutserts in their place, and two stainless bolts. >>>>And the column feels rough when you turn it, it makes a >>>>slight scraping noise. All in all, a shoddy piece of work.>>>> If I were to do it again, I would use the FR rack >>>>and cradle, and go to Iditit for the column. If you >>>>want power steering, go to Steeroids or Total Control.>>>> And here's another little tip that nobody has >>>>mentioned before. You know the stock '65 steering >>>>column and box are one piece, affectionately known as >>>>the "Thoracic Impaler". There is no way you're going >>>>to get that out in one piece with the engine in place. >>>>That's where a sawzall comes in.>>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!>>>1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok>>>Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior>>>Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8">>>w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 -- Wound Up ThunderSnake #65
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1965 Mustang PS Conversion

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