Question for Europeans

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CarGuru > Driving > Question for Europeans 10 May 2005 00:41:00

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Question for Europeans
Scott en Aztln 9 May 2005 17:46:08
	Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV news? Signed, Curious -- Life is short - drive fast! http://www.geocities.com/scottenaztlan/
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223rem 9 May 2005 18:05:26 [ permanent link ]
	Scott en AztlГЎn wrote:> Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike> in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top> $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news? Remember, they use Euros, and the Euro buys more dollars nowadays, and that helps counteract the increase in US $ oil prices.
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Mark Hewitt 9 May 2005 18:11:46 [ permanent link ]
	"Scott en Aztlбn" <scottenaztlan@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote in message news:45qu719f6hd573kbftqtjf64kcvbtcvpht@4ax.com...> Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike> in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top> $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news? Current price in UK is around US$6.16 / US gallon They are going up however have stopped going up quite recently. The general thought is that they have stablised now. However the chancellor has hinted further tax will be applied to petrol and diesel in the September budget. Of the $6.16 per gallon, approx $4.26 is tax.
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Knight Of The Road 9 May 2005 18:24:42 [ permanent link ]
	"Scott en Aztlбn" <scottenaztlan@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news? The price of fuel is already causing social unrest, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/england/4483881.stm Vince Truck Driving In Russia- www.coventon.co.uk
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Gazzafield 9 May 2005 18:27:28 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 09 May 2005 06:46:08 -0700, Scott en AztlГЎn wrote: Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike> in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top> $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news? Sorry to get political, but it's great the return you get when you invade a country for it's oil innit? No, sorry, not the oil. For the freedom of the people, obviously. Ahem.
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Depresion 9 May 2005 18:30:50 [ permanent link ]
	"Scott en Aztlбn" <scottenaztlan@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote in message news:45qu719f6hd573kbftqtjf64kcvbtcvpht@4ax.com...> Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike> in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top> $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news?> Petroleum is taxed at a fixed rate in the UK so our prices rise proportionally less than in the USA, some how the government attempts to make out that we are better off because of it. Lets say you pay $2.53 a gallon made up of $2 for the fuel 0.30 for direct tax and 0.12 10% sales tax, if the direct fuel cost doubles to $4 the 30 cents fuel tax stays the same and the 10% sales tax goes up to $0.43 leaving you paying $4.73. Now if we are paying $5.05 a gallon with $2 for the fuel $2.30 direct tax and 0.75c for 17.5% sales tax and the cost of fuel doubles to $4 then the $2.30 stays the same we pay $740 as the 17.5% tax is now $1.10. So your price has increased by 87% ours by just 46%. In reality our tax burden is much higher than that but this is just a demonstration.
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Thomas Schдfer 9 May 2005 18:33:24 [ permanent link ]
	"Scott en Aztlбn" wrote Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? As our taxes are already high, the increase in gas prices doesn't impress us much. The percentage of the increase is low. We don't expect $10/gallon for the next months. But in several years... Thomas
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Christian McArdle 9 May 2005 18:42:41 [ permanent link ]
	Since you folks in Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years> (thanks to high taxes), what's happening to gas prices over> there in Europe? Are they going to hit $10/gallon soon? Because the prices are mostly tax, and this is largely set in absolute terms, rather than a percentage, we are insulated from much of the fluctuation in the price of the base product. People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be. Christian.
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223rem 9 May 2005 18:45:54 [ permanent link ]
	gazzafield wrote: Sorry to get political, but it's great the return you get when you invade> a country for it's oil innit? No, sorry, not the oil. For the freedom of> the people, obviously. Ahem.> No, it wasnt for oil, and not for the 'freedom' of the Iraqis. You may want to familiarize yourself with the US Neoconservative agenda. This is a good overview: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279
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Mark Hewitt 9 May 2005 19:00:34 [ permanent link ]
	"Christian McArdle" <cmcardle75@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message news:427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...>> Since you folks in Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years>> (thanks to high taxes), what's happening to gas prices over>> there in Europe? Are they going to hit $10/gallon soon?> Because the prices are mostly tax, and this is largely set in absolute> terms, rather than a percentage, we are insulated from much of the> fluctuation in the price of the base product.> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is > bad> due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be. Part of it is absolute, part of it is a percentage (VAT).
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Depresion 9 May 2005 19:01:09 [ permanent link ]
	"Christian McArdle" <cmcardle75@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message news:427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...>> Since you folks in Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years>> (thanks to high taxes), what's happening to gas prices over>> there in Europe? Are they going to hit $10/gallon soon?> Because the prices are mostly tax, and this is largely set in absolute> terms, rather than a percentage, we are insulated from much of the> fluctuation in the price of the base product.> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad> due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be. We also know using it is vital for the econimy and it's not a luxery item. We wouldn't complain about this level of tax on diamonds or gold as we don't need to use them to get to work in the mornings or home after it. As almost everyone used it to some extent to get to or from work the knock on costs filter through to every buisness that's not even including the costs on goods transport and food.
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Christian McArdle 9 May 2005 19:10:26 [ permanent link ]
	Because the prices are mostly tax, and this is largely set in absolute>> terms, rather than a percentage,> Part of it is absolute, part of it is a percentage (VAT). Hence the word "largely" above. Only VAT on the non-duty part is variable. VAT on the duty itself is fixed, unless the rate of VAT or duty changes. Christian.
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Gazzafield 9 May 2005 19:13:14 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:45:54 +0000, 223rem wrote: gazzafield wrote:> Sorry to get political, but it's great the return you get when you invade>> a country for it's oil innit? No, sorry, not the oil. For the freedom of>> the people, obviously. Ahem.>> No, it wasnt for oil, and not for the 'freedom' of the Iraqis.> You may want to familiarize yourself with the US Neoconservative> agenda.> This is a good overview:> http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279 Yawn. So that was last updated on 5th April 2003 was it? Wonder if the 25 still think it's all peachy. And it was nothing but for America to keep control of it's empire. They can tell you what ever propaganda they like.
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Brent P 9 May 2005 19:51:02 [ permanent link ]
	In article <427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian McArdle wrote: People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad> due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be. I am having problems believing the measured warming is due to CO2. Because other planets and satelites (moons) in the solor system are warming. I think the scale of the issue of climate change is much bigger.
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Conor 9 May 2005 19:52:45 [ permanent link ]
	In article <45qu719f6hd573kbftqtjf64kcvbtcvpht@4ax.com>, Scott en AztlГЎn says...> Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike> in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top> $5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in> Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes), what's> happening to gas prices over there in Europe? Are they going to hit> $10/gallon soon? Is the price of gas the top story on your local TV> news?> Not really. Trouble is merkins have had gas at such a ridiculously low price, pump prices are far more sensitive to rises in oil prices. Ours tends to fluctuate around a $0.40 USD range. The average price goes up when the Govt increases taxes on it. Your price has doubled in 2 years as I recall which is a big increase to swallow. Ours has taken around 15 years to do that. -- Conor "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." O.Osbourne.
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Brent P 9 May 2005 19:54:23 [ permanent link ]
	In article <CIKfe.226$Lu6.217@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, 223rem wrote:> gazzafield wrote:> Sorry to get political, but it's great the return you get when you invade>> a country for it's oil innit? No, sorry, not the oil. For the freedom of>> the people, obviously. Ahem.>> No, it wasnt for oil, and not for the 'freedom' of the Iraqis. I believe it to be neither. The only reason that makes even a bit of sense is an attempt to bring about a regional stability for the oil supply in general. not taking the oil, not wmd, not freedom. If it was freedom, shrub could start by promoting it in the USA instead of hindering it even more.
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Brent P 9 May 2005 19:56:17 [ permanent link ]
	In article <46ednRCeXph7G-LfRVn-gQ@comcast.com>, Brent P wrote:> In article <427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian McArdle wrote:> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad>> due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be.> I am having problems believing the measured warming is due to CO2. > Because other planets and satelites (moons) in the solor system are arg... solar.... warming. I think the scale of the issue of climate change is much bigger. >
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Brent P 9 May 2005 20:01:33 [ permanent link ]
	In article <MPG.1ce997aa609688b7989aa8@news.individual.net>, Conor wrote: Your price has doubled in 2 years as I recall which is a big increase > to swallow. Ours has taken around 15 years to do that. Then fell back down then went up again, the whole process has been about 6 years. Gasoline, by itself, without taxes isn't really expensive when adjusted for inflation from decades ago. The distribution system in the USA is the big reason why gasoline stays cheap.
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Martin Brown 9 May 2005 20:20:57 [ permanent link ]
	Brent P wrote: In article <427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian McArdle wrote:> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad>>due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be.> I am having problems believing the measured warming is due to CO2. Over the past century about half of the Earth's warming has been due to changes in the solar flux and the other half due to CO2 (and other) greenhouse gasses. The main influence of the greenhouse gasses really only becoming impossible to ignore from 1970 onwards. So in the past 30 years the anthropogenic component has contributed about as much to global warming as a whole century of natural changes in the sun. The big problem is that we are continually adding to the CO2 and the rate of warming continues to increase. We can't do much about the sun, but we can buy time by becoming more energy efficient. Because other planets and satelites (moons) in the solor system are > warming. I think the scale of the issue of climate change is much bigger. Although it is true that the sun's output has increased very slightly the amount is not sufficient to explain all the observed global warming. Satellite monitoring of solar flux since the 1970's is an important constraint. Good to see GM and Ford are now both junk bonds. Market forces may yet sort things out for us if the US gas price goes through the roof. Regards, Martin Brown
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Brent P 9 May 2005 21:04:45 [ permanent link ]
	In article <d5o2l3$28t$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Martin Brown wrote:> Brent P wrote: In article <427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian McArdle wrote:>> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad>>>due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be.>> I am having problems believing the measured warming is due to CO2. Over the past century about half of the Earth's warming has been due to > changes in the solar flux and the other half due to CO2 (and other) > greenhouse gasses. The main influence of the greenhouse gasses really > only becoming impossible to ignore from 1970 onwards. Correlation != causation. Every model, everything in global warming is based on the assumption that the correlation seen is a cause and effect relationship and that it works with CO2 causing the warming. All while ignoring the other more powerful greenhouse gas from combustion, water. As if the water we are pumping into the environment has no effect what so ever. From the CO2 theory, it used towards political ends. Things like the kyoto treaty. Treaties that would have us believe making widgets in China is better for the environment than making them in Ohio. Because other planets and satelites (moons) in the solor system are >> warming. I think the scale of the issue of climate change is much bigger. Although it is true that the sun's output has increased very slightly > the amount is not sufficient to explain all the observed global > warming. Satellite monitoring of solar flux since the 1970's is an > important constraint. It's not enough to explain the the observed warming of mars either.
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K Smythe 9 May 2005 23:15:30 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:54:23 -0500, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: In article <CIKfe.226$Lu6.217@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, 223rem wrote:>> gazzafield wrote:>> Sorry to get political, but it's great the return you get when you invade>>> a country for it's oil innit? No, sorry, not the oil. For the freedom of>>> the people, obviously. Ahem.>>> No, it wasnt for oil, and not for the 'freedom' of the Iraqis.> I believe it to be neither. The only reason that makes even a bit of >sense is an attempt to bring about a regional stability for the oil >supply in general. not taking the oil, not wmd, not freedom.> It was done for profit, and not the profit of the average American citizen. If it was freedom, shrub could start by promoting it in the USA instead >of hindering it even more. >
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L Sternn 9 May 2005 23:39:40 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:04:45 -0500, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: In article <d5o2l3$28t$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Martin Brown wrote:>> Brent P wrote:> In article <427f76e4$0$294$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian McArdle wrote:>>> People grumble about the price, but deep down know that petroleum use is bad>>>>due to climate change, so the grumbling is not as loud as it might be.>>> I am having problems believing the measured warming is due to CO2. > Over the past century about half of the Earth's warming has been due to >> changes in the solar flux and the other half due to CO2 (and other) >> greenhouse gasses. The main influence of the greenhouse gasses really >> only becoming impossible to ignore from 1970 onwards.> Correlation != causation. Every model, everything in global warming is >based on the assumption that the correlation seen is a cause and effect >relationship and that it works with CO2 causing the warming. All while >ignoring the other more powerful greenhouse gas from combustion, water. >As if the water we are pumping into the environment has no effect what so >ever. > From the CO2 theory, it used towards political ends. Things like the kyoto >treaty. Treaties that would have us believe making widgets in China is >better for the environment than making them in Ohio.> Just because Kyoto is a bad idea doesn't mean that CO2 isn't contributing to warming. Because other planets and satelites (moons) in the solor system are >>> warming. I think the scale of the issue of climate change is much bigger. > Although it is true that the sun's output has increased very slightly >> the amount is not sufficient to explain all the observed global >> warming. Satellite monitoring of solar flux since the 1970's is an >> important constraint.> It's not enough to explain the the observed warming of mars either.
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Brent P 9 May 2005 23:48:18 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1mdv71phl5ku1t9d77a998clhlbo0kk0tk@4ax.com>, K Smythe wrote: It was done for profit, and not the profit of the average American> citizen. From stability comes profit. Those that profit from the status quo control the US government. Nothing seems to be about the average citizen these days unless it's about taking from him, watching him, or controlling him.
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Brent P 9 May 2005 23:49:29 [ permanent link ]
	In article <83fv715sc4tkqb17tffbqno6k5sdevvrc9@4ax.com>, L Sternn wrote: Just because Kyoto is a bad idea doesn't mean that CO2 isn't> contributing to warming. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But what I see is people with an agenda pushing that it is. That makes me suspicious.
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Depresion 10 May 2005 00:41:00 [ permanent link ]
	"Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:mtOfe.8134$eJ4.6248@bignews4.bellsouth.net...> In Europe, somebody who is too poor to afford the fuel for a car often has> alternatives, this is not the case in the US except for the major cities.> And alot of the US population does not live in these cities. It's the same in most of Europe if you don't live in a major town then you need a car for daily life. We just accept it and have to find other things we can do without (hence the general lack of massive TVs, smaller homes, smaller cars with smaller engines)
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CarGuru > Driving > Question for Europeans 10 May 2005 00:41:00

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