Can I add comments via e-mail?
Opponents of TTC rally in Austin
Hello Guest
  
  • Login
• Register…
• Start blog
  • Who, Where, When
• What is interesting here?
• Duels
  • Polls
• Avatars
• Interests
  • Cities and Countries
• Random blog
• Users search
  • Search
• Games
• Tests
• CarGuru
  • Ñîîáùåñòâà
• Talxy Chat
• Horoscope
• Online
 
Register!

CarGuru > Driving > Opponents of TTC rally in Austin 7 May 2005 21:49:09

  Recent blog posts: 
  They have birthday today: 
  Forums:   
  Discuss: 
  Recent forum topics: 
  Recent forum comments:
  Ìîäåðàòîð:

Opponents of TTC rally in Austin

Guest 4 May 2005 17:55:59
 http://www.tylerpape­r.com/site/news.cfm?­newsid=14463697&BRD=­1994&PAG=461&dept_id­=226369&rfi=6

ANGRY RURAL LAND OWNERS RALLY
AGAINST CORRIDOR PLAN


AUSTIN (AP) - Farmers and ranchers flocked to the Capitol on Tuesday
with their sights set on stopping Gov. Rick Perry's Trans-Texas
Corridor, a huge highway project rural land owners say will gobble up
their property.

Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn - one of Perry's potential
Republican opponents in 2006 - joined the angry rally and called
Perry's associates "land-grabbing highway henchmen."

"Governor Perry and his Department of Transportation want to cram toll
roads down Texans' throats. He calls it Trans-Texas Corridor. We call
it Trans-Texas Catastrophe," she said.

A spokesman for Perry watched the rally and chastised Strayhorn for
criticizing toll roads. He cited records showing her support for them
in the past and said those who criticize should offer their own
transportation solutions.

"Would they raise the gas tax by one dollar? ... Would they expand I-35
through our cities, which is some of the most expensive real estate in
the state? Or would they do nothing and continue to allow congestion to
increase?" Robert Black said.

The Trans-Texas Corridor, proposed by Perry in 2002, would be a
4,000-mile transportation network costing some $175 billion over 50
years. It would be financed mostly if not entirely by private money.
The road builders would then charge motorists tolls.

"One, two, three, four. We don't want this corridor!" the yellow-clad
crowd shouted Tuesday, amid other chants and jeers. Many held signs
blasting the corridor.

Corridor Watch, formed by Linda and David Stall of Fayetteville, says
at least 20 county commissioners' courts have passed resolutions
opposing the Trans-Texas Corridor.

The land owners who rallied at the Capitol voiced support for a bill
that would place a two-year moratorium on development of the
Trans-Texas Corridor and on tolls for existing roads. But as the
legislative session enters its final month, the bill by Democratic Rep.
Garnet Coleman of Houston appears doomed in a House committee.

Republican and Democratic legislators addressed the rally, urging that
limits be placed on the corridor plan.

"The government is out of control. They're trying to take our property
rights away from us," said Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville.

Some in the crowd identified themselves as conservative Republicans and
said this was the first political rally they'd ever attended. Their
anger was clearly aimed at Perry.

"I already wrote a note to his e-mail and said he needs to be run out
of town on a rail. But that's too good for him," said Betty Meischen of
Austin County.

Meischen said one proposed corridor road would divide the 160-acre farm
that has been in her family for generations.

Cattle rancher Leroy Bacak of El Campo and his wife, Laverne, said they
have two pieces of property totaling 250 acres. One corridor proposal
could place a major highway between the two, preventing the movement of
ranch equipment back and forth, Bacak said.

Black, the spokesman for Perry, said the governor understands the
concerns of rural residents. That's why, he said, the governor asked
that the Trans-Texas Corridor law include a provision allowing land
owners whose property is taken for roads to receive fair market value
or another negotiated amount.

However, he acknowledged that the state would have no obligation to pay
more than fair market value, and the owner would have no choice but to
give up the land.

The Trans-Texas Corridor is an innovative way to deal with the state's
transportation needs and is becoming a model for the nation, Black
said.

"We cannot continue to keep doing things the way we've done them in the
past," he said.

The Trans-Texas Corridor moratorium bill is HB3363.

On the Net: Corridor Watch ( http://www.corridor­watch.org ), Texas
Department of Transportation ( http://www.txdot.st­ate.tx.us )

Add comment
William Welner 4 May 2005 19:25:36 permanent link ]
 I live in New York and have been reading about TTC.

The question that have as a non Texas Resident is why Texas proposes to give
away its roads to a private agency that can charge as much as they wish in
tolls.

Toll roads, bridges and tunnels in the Northeast such as the NY Thruway, The
Jersey Turnpike, the George Washington Bridge were built and still operated
by independent state agencies financed by municipal bonds sold by the
agencies. The agencies are managed by directors appointed by state governors
and state legislatures.

Has there been any proposal to use the independent state agency approach for
the TLC.

By searching the corridor watch web page:
http://www.corridor­watch.org/ttc/cw-tol­ls.htm , it would appear that Texas
residents would be better served by going with the independent agency
approach.

As an example, the NY State Thruway is proposing an increase in tools and
hearings were recently held throughout the state for discussion with local
citizens which now charges an average of 3 cents per mile for autos.






<us175@hotmail.com>­ wrote in message
news:1115214959.012­168.179900@z14g2000c­wz.googlegroups.com.­..> http://www.tylerpap­er.com/site/news.cfm­?newsid=14463697&BRD­=1994&PAG=461&dept_i­d=226369&rfi=6>
ANGRY RURAL LAND OWNERS RALLY> AGAINST CORRIDOR PLAN>
AUSTIN (AP) - Farmers and ranchers flocked to the Capitol on Tuesday> with their sights set on stopping Gov. Rick Perry's Trans-Texas> Corridor, a huge highway project rural land owners say will gobble up> their property.>
Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn - one of Perry's potential> Republican opponents in 2006 - joined the angry rally and called> Perry's associates "land-grabbing highway henchmen.">
"Governor Perry and his Department of Transportation want to cram toll> roads down Texans' throats. He calls it Trans-Texas Corridor. We call> it Trans-Texas Catastrophe," she said.>
A spokesman for Perry watched the rally and chastised Strayhorn for> criticizing toll roads. He cited records showing her support for them> in the past and said those who criticize should offer their own> transportation solutions.>
"Would they raise the gas tax by one dollar? ... Would they expand I-35> through our cities, which is some of the most expensive real estate in> the state? Or would they do nothing and continue to allow congestion to> increase?" Robert Black said.>
The Trans-Texas Corridor, proposed by Perry in 2002, would be a> 4,000-mile transportation network costing some $175 billion over 50> years. It would be financed mostly if not entirely by private money.> The road builders would then charge motorists tolls.>
"One, two, three, four. We don't want this corridor!" the yellow-clad> crowd shouted Tuesday, amid other chants and jeers. Many held signs> blasting the corridor.>
Corridor Watch, formed by Linda and David Stall of Fayetteville, says> at least 20 county commissioners' courts have passed resolutions> opposing the Trans-Texas Corridor.>
The land owners who rallied at the Capitol voiced support for a bill> that would place a two-year moratorium on development of the> Trans-Texas Corridor and on tolls for existing roads. But as the> legislative session enters its final month, the bill by Democratic Rep.> Garnet Coleman of Houston appears doomed in a House committee.>
Republican and Democratic legislators addressed the rally, urging that> limits be placed on the corridor plan.>
"The government is out of control. They're trying to take our property> rights away from us," said Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville.>
Some in the crowd identified themselves as conservative Republicans and> said this was the first political rally they'd ever attended. Their> anger was clearly aimed at Perry.>
"I already wrote a note to his e-mail and said he needs to be run out> of town on a rail. But that's too good for him," said Betty Meischen of> Austin County.>
Meischen said one proposed corridor road would divide the 160-acre farm> that has been in her family for generations.>
Cattle rancher Leroy Bacak of El Campo and his wife, Laverne, said they> have two pieces of property totaling 250 acres. One corridor proposal> could place a major highway between the two, preventing the movement of> ranch equipment back and forth, Bacak said.>
Black, the spokesman for Perry, said the governor understands the> concerns of rural residents. That's why, he said, the governor asked> that the Trans-Texas Corridor law include a provision allowing land> owners whose property is taken for roads to receive fair market value> or another negotiated amount.>
However, he acknowledged that the state would have no obligation to pay> more than fair market value, and the owner would have no choice but to> give up the land.>
The Trans-Texas Corridor is an innovative way to deal with the state's> transportation needs and is becoming a model for the nation, Black> said.>
"We cannot continue to keep doing things the way we've done them in the> past," he said.>
The Trans-Texas Corridor moratorium bill is HB3363.>
On the Net: Corridor Watch ( http://www.corridor­watch.org ), Texas> Department of Transportation ( http://www.txdot.st­ate.tx.us )>



Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 4 May 2005 20:35:43 permanent link ]
 "william welner" <wwelnerw@earthlink­.net> wrote:>
I live in New York and have been reading about TTC.>
The question that have as a non Texas Resident is why Texas proposes to give> away its roads to a private agency that can charge as much as they wish in> tolls.

The TTC highways would be new highways, so Texas wouldn't be privatizing
any existing highways. I don't see where private and public-private
highways will result in anyone making a "killing" financially, as the
likely return on investment will be in the realm of that of a public
utility, probably 10% or less per year. Highway administration is very
capital intensive, and building a major freeway will require huge
amounts of capital to be raised and amortized. If they overcharge on
tolls, traffic volumes will reduce in droves, perhaps leading to a
negative rate of return.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
Anthony Kennerson 5 May 2005 22:46:11 permanent link ]
 That's not neccessarily true, Scott...some parts of the proposed I-69
corridor near Houston and near the Lufkin area do use highways that
were originally constructed as freeways with gas taxes....and AFAIK, no
other state other than Texas has proposed imposing tolls on any of
their proposed sections of I-69 (or any complimentary connections such
as the Memphis Outer Beltway or the Pine Bluff Connector.

And it's not as if the states have to put up all of the costs of
building such a highway, either...the Feds still pay the overwhelming
majority of the costs (80%),

If I-69 is that important and provides such a benefit to those people,
then why not just fund it out of gas tax revenues or general funds, and
save the tolls for more peripheral projects???

And the real problem with privatized tolls is exactly that "profit
motive" you talk about: if fewer people decide to use the tollway, the
owners could just hike the tolls to the stratisphere to recoup their
profits off those who are willing to pay....and leave the existing
roadways clogged with the rejects.. In short, they put their profits
above the needs of the commuters.

As I said before, I'm not particularly against tollways in some limited
circumstances...but­ converting preexisting freeways to toll facilities
just to cover the profits of unaccountable private agencies is simply
too much risk, IMV. I'd much rather trust a public authority which is
accountable to the voters and taxpayers to finance such facilities;
otherwise, keep the freeways free and fund them adequately.

Anthony

Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 6 May 2005 02:51:31 permanent link ]
 "Anthony Kennerson" <anthonyk6319@gmail­.com> wrote:>
That's not neccessarily true, Scott...some parts of the proposed I-69> corridor near Houston and near the Lufkin area do use highways that> were originally constructed as freeways with gas taxes....and AFAIK, no> other state other than Texas has proposed imposing tolls on any of> their proposed sections of I-69 (or any complimentary connections such> as the Memphis Outer Beltway or the Pine Bluff Connector.

I was responding to the comment about the Trans-Texas Corridors, and I
thought that they would be on completely new right-of-way 1,000+ feet
wide to ultimately accommodate a superhighway, railways, pipelines and
utilities.

About I-69, have any existing freeways been officially identified to be
included in I-69, without any upgrades needed to use them as an
Interstate, and to have tolls instituted on those freeway segments?
And it's not as if the states have to put up all of the costs of> building such a highway, either...the Feds still pay the overwhelming> majority of the costs (80%),>
If I-69 is that important and provides such a benefit to those people,> then why not just fund it out of gas tax revenues or general funds, and> save the tolls for more peripheral projects???

The FHWA funding ratio is 80% as you say, but it is a finite funding
source, to where it could take 10 to 20 years or more to provide enough
allocations to build a new long-distance Interstate highway.
And the real problem with privatized tolls is exactly that "profit> motive" you talk about: if fewer people decide to use the tollway, the> owners could just hike the tolls to the stratisphere to recoup their> profits off those who are willing to pay....and leave the existing> roadways clogged with the rejects.. In short, they put their profits> above the needs of the commuters.

The state corporation commission would regulate the maximum allowable
annual return on investment, on the basis that such a highway is a
public utility.

Like I said, highway administration is very capital intensive, and
building a major freeway will require huge amounts of capital to be
raised and amortized. There will be a narrow window of toll rates that
are high enough to pay the for the capital and maintenance costs of the
highway, but not too high so as to cause the highway to be unprofitable.
As I said before, I'm not particularly against tollways in some limited> circumstances...but­ converting preexisting freeways to toll facilities> just to cover the profits of unaccountable private agencies is simply> too much risk, IMV. I'd much rather trust a public authority which is> accountable to the voters and taxpayers to finance such facilities;> otherwise, keep the freeways free and fund them adequately.

Well-written legislation for public-private partnerships will keep the
state DOT in command of such an agreement, and them and the state
corporation commission will be accountable to the voters and taxpayers
to make sure that any such partnership is operated with the best
interests of the public in mind.

Even the 100% privately funded Dulles Greenway was written with an
agreement with the state, specifying that the highway will ultimately be
granted to state ownership toll-free (in 2055), and while it is
privately owned, having a maximum annual allowable rate of return of 16%
(although in almost 10 years since it opened, it has never actually come
anywhere near that high).

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
Justin Priola 6 May 2005 05:41:50 permanent link ]
 I still don't see why people would pay to travel on a toll highway when
there are more than adequate free alternatives to them. From what I
understand, the intercity interstates in TX, with the exception of I-35
between San Antonio and DFW, have more than enough capacity to handle
present and future traffic flows, and a third lane could easily be
added when the time comes. So why would I want to pay to travel when
the free road is perfectly adequate? Most of these TTC routes are
parallel to existing interstate facilities. Though I see that the
major cities are bypassed by them, so that could be an attraction.

Justin Priola

Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 6 May 2005 05:56:38 permanent link ]
 "Justin Priola" <jpriola@msn.com> wrote:>
I still don't see why people would pay to travel on a toll highway when> there are more than adequate free alternatives to them. From what I> understand, the intercity interstates in TX, with the exception of I-35> between San Antonio and DFW, have more than enough capacity to handle> present and future traffic flows, and a third lane could easily be> added when the time comes. So why would I want to pay to travel when> the free road is perfectly adequate? Most of these TTC routes are> parallel to existing interstate facilities. Though I see that the> major cities are bypassed by them, so that could be an attraction.

The TTC routes would be "super express" highways, bypassing well outside
the major metropolitan areas, with convenient connections to the
Interstates and freeways that the TTC crosses, with speed limits as high
as 85 mph.

For long-distance travel along, for instance, the I-35 corridor, a
TTC-35 would be considerably faster than I-35, and would avoid major
metropolitan areas, providing generally easier driving than I-35.

They are also looking at the traffic needs for 20 years and more into
the future.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
William Welner 7 May 2005 18:59:26 permanent link ]
 If the TTC is involved with the construction of new roads, what would
prevent truckers from using what ever existing highways that now exist to
avoid tolls.

When I think about utility companies my cable company comes to mind which
keeps raising their rates so that many folks go to using a dish. Will the
Texas Government have the authority to approve raises in tolls

The question comes to mind is why no thought has gone into creating an
authority such as the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority to build these
highways which operates like a private company to build these highways and
also use the revenue created to build rail lines.The MTA in NewYork, an
independent state authority, operates both toll bridges and tunnels along
with commuter rail lines which also carry freight trains.

"Scott M. Kozel" <kozelsm@comcast.ne­t> wrote in message
news:4278F9DF.66AD2­A21@comcast.net...> "william welner" <wwelnerw@earthlink­.net> wrote:>>
I live in New York and have been reading about TTC.>>
The question that have as a non Texas Resident is why Texas proposes to >> give>> away its roads to a private agency that can charge as much as they wish >> in>> tolls.>
The TTC highways would be new highways, so Texas wouldn't be privatizing> any existing highways. I don't see where private and public-private> highways will result in anyone making a "killing" financially, as the> likely return on investment will be in the realm of that of a public> utility, probably 10% or less per year. Highway administration is very> capital intensive, and building a major freeway will require huge> amounts of capital to be raised and amortized. If they overcharge on> tolls, traffic volumes will reduce in droves, perhaps leading to a> negative rate of return.>
-- > Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites> Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com>



Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 7 May 2005 20:34:19 permanent link ]
 "william welner" <wwelnerw@earthlink­.net> wrote:>
If the TTC is involved with the construction of new roads, what would> prevent truckers from using what ever existing highways that now exist to> avoid tolls.

The truckers would be quite able to keep using existing highways.
When I think about utility companies my cable company comes to mind which> keeps raising their rates so that many folks go to using a dish. Will the> Texas Government have the authority to approve raises in tolls

The state corporation commission would regulate the toll rates, on the
basis that such a highway is a public utility.
The question comes to mind is why no thought has gone into creating an> authority such as the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority to build these> highways which operates like a private company to build these highways and> also use the revenue created to build rail lines. The MTA in NewYork, an> independent state authority, operates both toll bridges and tunnels along> with commuter rail lines which also carry freight trains.

A publicly administered turnpike authority such as the ones you mention
do not "operate like a private company". They utilize the contract
bidding procedure to obtain the services of private contractors to build
the highways.

In the case of Texas, they have allowed for private entities to submit
public-private partnership proposals to fund, design, build and maintain
segments of the TTC system; in addition to the possibility for the
public design-bid-build process to be utilized on segments of the
system. In other words, in addition to the traditional publicly
administered design-bid-build process, they also have provision for the
public-private partnership process, which means that there are more
funding options.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
Argatlam Roads 7 May 2005 21:49:09 permanent link ]
 [Mr. Welner:]
The question comes to mind is why no thought has gone into creating
authority such as the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority to build these> highways which operates like a private company to build these
highways and> also use the revenue created to build rail lines.

Texas already has multiple toll road authorities of that kind.
Examples include the N.T.T.A. in Dallas, the county toll road
authorities in the Houston area, Tx.D.O.T.'s own Turnpike Division
which administers toll roads in the vicinity of Austin, etc.; also,
Tx.D.O.T.'s Laredo district administers a privately built toll road
which the state acquired in a foreclosure sale. Recently introduced
legislation also allows the formation of Regional Mobility Authorities
(consisting of counties and cities) which can function as toll road
operators; the Central Texas R.M.A. has in fact recently signed a
Comprehensive Development Agreement for its first toll road.

I believe Texas is using a P.P.P. mechanism to build the Trans-Texas
Corridors because it is already bonded to the hilt. If a private
company borrows to build a Trans-Texas Corridor, then the borrowing
lies off the state's books and does not affect its bond rating.

Obviously it would be much better to have this new infrastructure
investment paid for out of taxes on the P.A.Y.G. principle. At
minimum, this would prevent money from being wasted on debt service
(which essentially amounts to paying the bond market to handle money)
and the transaction costs associated with toll collection. However,
nobody now in power in Texas has the political courage required to
raise taxes to a level adequate to meet infrastructure needs. A
central problem with using a general, systematic use tax to finance
highway improvements in urban areas is that the link between congestion
and use pricing is very weak. And, unfortunately, continued reliance
on toll finance serves popular but regressive social agendas like white
flight.

Add comment
 

Add new comment

As:
Login:  Password:  
 
 
  
 
respect your talk pals, avoid using obscene language, typing entire messages in CAPS, posting buy/sell ads or violating netiquette or the RF Criminal Code..


CarGuru > Driving > Opponents of TTC rally in Austin 7 May 2005 21:49:09

see also:
Hamilton 'abuse' continues
Re: English racist hypocrites
Re: Tony Rolt
pass tests:
see also:
FUEL STARVATION PROBLEM
my pug 206cc
2007 Hyundai Azera Radio Remove/Install

  Copyright © 2001—2009 Car-Guru
Idea: Miñhael Monashev
See Help and FAQ in the community support.car-guru.com.
Write in the community about the bugs you have noticedbugs.car-guru.com.
Write your offers and comments in the communities suggest.car-guru.com.
Information for parents.
Write us at:
If you would like to report an abuse of our service, such as a spam message, please .