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Las Vegas, are you kidding me?
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CarGuru > Driving > Las Vegas, are you kidding me? 25 April 2005 05:44:23

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Las Vegas, are you kidding me?

Presnwap 23 April 2005 05:49:09
 I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics about the
city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about LV potential with
supporting major league sports.

"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps and bounds.
Local officials estimate that a new home is built every 20 minutes, as 5,000
people move to the city every month. 88 new schools are being built, and the
number of hospitals has tripled over the past few years.
In 1980, Las Vegas' population was 164,674. By 2000, that number had almost
tripled to 478,434. In 2003, the population was estimated at 528,617 in
2003. Greater metropolitan Las Vegas now accounts for a majority of the 2.3
million people living in the state of Nevada.

In addition to the new residents, tourists continue to pour into Vegas. More
than 30 million people visit the region every year to get away from life in
the more ordinary parts of America. The average tourist spends $500 over a
three-night stay. That adds up to nearly $18 billion being pumped into the
area's economy annually. That money pays workers and helps businesses
prosper, enabling the creation of more jobs and further expanding the metro
area's population base."

60,000 per year! Wow. I guess I have been in the dark about LV.

http://www.askmen.c­om/sports/business_1­00/121b_sports_busin­ess.html


Add comment
Jake Brzeskiewicz 23 April 2005 08:06:30 permanent link ]
 Las Vegas cannot sustain that level of growth. Once they max out thier
share of Colorado River water, they're done. How many neighboring
states are gonna let thier water be siphoned off to fill fountains and
water golf cources in Vegas? They should slow down now so it'll be a
soft landing rather than a screeching wreck.

Add comment
Elaich 23 April 2005 08:46:11 permanent link ]
 "Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in
news:p­Qhae.26115$gV­.4672@lakeread02:
60,000 per year! Wow. I guess I have been in the dark about LV.

It's true, and insane. These mega cities in the Southwest are going to be
facing major water shortage problems in the foreseeable future.

--
"No sports writers were harmed during the making of this post. And what I
want to know is - why not?"
Add comment
William Lynch 23 April 2005 08:47:44 permanent link ]
 Presnwap wrote:
I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics about the > city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about LV potential with > supporting major league sports.>
"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps and bounds. > Local officials estimate that a new home is built every 20 minutes, as 5,000 > people move to the city every month. 88 new schools are being built, and the > number of hospitals has tripled over the past few years.> In 1980, Las Vegas' population was 164,674. By 2000, that number had almost > tripled to 478,434. In 2003, the population was estimated at 528,617 in > 2003. Greater metropolitan Las Vegas now accounts for a majority of the 2.3 > million people living in the state of Nevada.>
In addition to the new residents, tourists continue to pour into Vegas. More > than 30 million people visit the region every year to get away from life in > the more ordinary parts of America. The average tourist spends $500 over a > three-night stay. That adds up to nearly $18 billion being pumped into the > area's economy annually. That money pays workers and helps businesses > prosper, enabling the creation of more jobs and further expanding the metro > area's population base.">
60,000 per year! Wow. I guess I have been in the dark about LV.>

And they are about to overtake LA for the worst air quality
in the country. Plus they have power problems; Hoover Dam
no longer is able to contractually supply enough electricity
for the needs of the LV metro area.

Sounds like a garden spot to me.
Add comment
Michael G. Koerner 23 April 2005 09:19:13 permanent link ]
 Jake Brzeskiewicz wrote:>
Las Vegas cannot sustain that level of growth. Once they max out thier> share of Colorado River water, they're done. How many neighboring> states are gonna let thier water be siphoned off to fill fountains and> water golf cources in Vegas? They should slow down now so it'll be a> soft landing rather than a screeching wreck.

What about the Phoenix, AZ area? It's growing almost as fast with what
seems to be a much more lasses-faire approach to managing water from
that same source.

--
___________________­____________________­____ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | | _______________
Add comment
Tim 23 April 2005 09:34:19 permanent link ]
 "elaich" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:3cu28jF6qbultU­5@individual.net...
It's true, and insane. These mega cities in the Southwest are going to be> facing major water shortage problems in the foreseeable future.

Foreseeable future? The future is now! Water was already a crisis in the
Southwest when I lived in Tucson in 1997-8 and what I hear from my old
roommate (who lives in PHX now), things haven't gotten any better.

--

Tim
Exit 4, NH 101


Add comment
William Lynch 23 April 2005 10:58:54 permanent link ]
 Michael G. Koerner wrote:
Jake Brzeskiewicz wrote:>
Las Vegas cannot sustain that level of growth. Once they max out thier>>share of Colorado River water, they're done. How many neighboring>>states­ are gonna let thier water be siphoned off to fill fountains and>>water golf cources in Vegas? They should slow down now so it'll be a>>soft landing rather than a screeching wreck.>
What about the Phoenix, AZ area? It's growing almost as fast with what> seems to be a much more lasses-faire approach to managing water from> that same source.>
Phoenix has all of the same problems to the same degree
except for the air pollution.
Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 23 April 2005 17:13:44 permanent link ]
 elaich <a@b.c> wrote:>
"Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote:>
60,000 per year! Wow. I guess I have been in the dark about LV.>
It's true, and insane. These mega cities in the Southwest are going to be> facing major water shortage problems in the foreseeable future.

What are the 2025 population forecasts for major metropolitan areas such
as Las Vegas, Tucson and Phoenix? Are there official projections as to
how much they will continue to grow?

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
Argatlam Roads 23 April 2005 18:17:05 permanent link ]
 [Mr. Kozel:]
What are the 2025 population forecasts for major metropolitan areas
such> as Las Vegas, Tucson and Phoenix? Are there official projections as
how much they will continue to grow?

According to the 1998 data presented here

http://ag.arizona.e­du/AZWATER/awr/sept9­8/feature1.html

for Phoenix and Tucson, the 2025 projections are (water overdraft given
in acre-feet):

POPULATION (EST.) DAILY WATER
OVERDRAFT
Phoenix 4,948,423 372,932
Tucson 1,290,966 46,600

'Water overdraft' is the difference between groundwater taken out and
used and water returned to the ground, while 'safe yield' is the
notional maximum amount of water a water management area (there are
three in Arizona, centered on Tucson, Prescott, and Phoenix) can take
out of the ground and expect to be replenished naturally.

This article is somewhat out of date, but does make it clear that
living within a water budget is a continuing concern in Arizona. I
suspect that much current development in the Southwest is basically
speculative in character, with the developers and the homebuyers
counting on there somehow being enough cheap water to support a
comfortable lifestyle even if the water providers eventually have to
resort to distilling seawater or towing icebergs, or progressively more
draconian water conservation measures.

It has to be noted that there is room for continuing improvements in
efficient use of water. I recall reading figures in the Los Angeles
'Times' (can't quote specific issue, sorry) which suggested that 'per
capita' daily water consumption is actually much higher in Tucson and
Phoenix than in L.A. due to slow implementation of water-saving
measures.

Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 23 April 2005 18:50:28 permanent link ]
 argatlam_roads@yahoo­.com.mx wrote:>
[Mr. Kozel:]>
What are the 2025 population forecasts for major metropolitan areas such> > as Las Vegas, Tucson and Phoenix? Are there official projections as to> > how much they will continue to grow?>
According to the 1998 data presented here>
for Phoenix and Tucson, the 2025 projections are (water overdraft given> in acre-feet):>
POPULATION (EST.) DAILY WATER> OVERDRAFT> Phoenix 4,948,423 372,932> Tucson 1,290,966 46,600>
'Water overdraft' is the difference between groundwater taken out and> used and water returned to the ground, while 'safe yield' is the> notional maximum amount of water a water management area (there are> three in Arizona, centered on Tucson, Prescott, and Phoenix) can take> out of the ground and expect to be replenished naturally.>
This article is somewhat out of date, but does make it clear that> living within a water budget is a continuing concern in Arizona. I> suspect that much current development in the Southwest is basically> speculative in character, with the developers and the homebuyers> counting on there somehow being enough cheap water to support a> comfortable lifestyle even if the water providers eventually have to> resort to distilling seawater or towing icebergs, or progressively more> draconian water conservation measures.>
It has to be noted that there is room for continuing improvements in> efficient use of water. I recall reading figures in the Los Angeles> 'Times' (can't quote specific issue, sorry) which suggested that 'per> capita' daily water consumption is actually much higher in Tucson and> Phoenix than in L.A. due to slow implementation of water-saving> measures.

Thanks for the info! Water limitations notwithstanding, those 2025
metropolitan population projections forecast a dramatic increase in
population.

Metro. Population 2000
-------------------­------------
Phoenix-Mesa, Ariz. 3,251,876
Tucson, Ariz. 843,746

52.2% increase for metro Phoenix-Mesa in 25 years,
53.0% increase for metro Tucson in 25 years.

The one that I was most curious about is Las Vegas...

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
Scott en Aztln 23 April 2005 22:12:33 permanent link ]
 On 23 Apr 2005 07:17:05 -0700, argatlam_roads@yaho­o.com.mx wrote:
It has to be noted that there is room for continuing improvements in>efficient use of water. I recall reading figures in the Los Angeles>'Times' (can't quote specific issue, sorry) which suggested that 'per>capita' daily water consumption is actually much higher in Tucson and>Phoenix than in L.A. due to slow implementation of water-saving>measur­es.

That's unfathomable to me.

In Tucson, very few people have grass lawns. If a house has any
irrigation system at all, it's a drip system dispensing a few gallons
per hour. Tucson tap water tastes so bad, it seems everyone drinks
bottled water. Up until a couple of years ago, Tucson took NO water
from the Colorado river - it all came from the ground. They now use
some CAP water to recharge ground wells in the Avra Valley, but
nothing at all like what SoCal uses.

Here in SoCal, EVERY house has a big green lawn, front and back. We
have palm trees and flowers and lots of other thirsty plants.
Comparing two of my water bills, I see my SoCal house used 12 CCFs of
water, while the Tucson house used only 7.

Offhand, I just don't see how Tucson's per capita water usage could be
higher than LA's.

--
Life is short - drive fast!
Add comment
David Keenan 23 April 2005 22:43:00 permanent link ]
 "Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in message
news:p­Qhae.26115$gV­.4672@lakeread02...>­I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics about >the city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about LV potential >with supporting major league sports.>
"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps and > bounds. Local officials estimate that a new home is built every 20 > minutes, as 5,000 people move to the city every month. 88 new schools are > being built, and the number of hospitals has tripled over the past few > years. <snip>>
When you drive into Las Vegas from the south, you dscend into the valley
about
ten miles south of the Strip, and I noticed that there are new homes being
built on
that fringe, right up against where the land becomes too steep (at least for
now).
That whole valley will probably become filled with development before long.


Add comment
Pat O'Connell 24 April 2005 07:04:14 permanent link ]
 David Keenan wrote:> "Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in message > news:p­Qhae.26115$gV­.4672@lakeread02...>­> I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics>> about the city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about>> LV potential with supporting major league sports.>>
"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps>> and bounds. Local officials estimate that a new home is built every>> 20 minutes, as 5,000 people move to the city every month. 88 new>> schools are being built, and the number of hospitals has tripled>> over the past few years. <snip>>>
When you drive into Las Vegas from the south, you dscend into the> valley about ten miles south of the Strip, and I noticed that there> are new homes being built on that fringe, right up against where the> land becomes too steep (at least for now). That whole valley will> probably become filled with development before long.

If the BLM will sell the land, development will creep south along
I-15 toward the Calif. border, and northwest along US 95 toward Indian
Springs. Less likely toward Mesquite or Searchlight.

There's talk of building housing in Arizona south of Lake Mead NRA once
the bridge on US 93 across Black Canyon (Hoover Dam) is complete. No
idea what they'll do for water out there...

--
Pat O'Connell
[note munged EMail address]
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
Add comment
David Keenan 24 April 2005 21:51:26 permanent link ]
 "Pat O'Connell" <nvcaver.FIGUREITOU­T@cox.net> wrote in message
news:T0Eae.3340$Zi.­1586@fed1read04...> David Keenan wrote:>> "Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in message >> news:p­Qhae.26115$gV­.4672@lakeread02...>­>> I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics>>> about the city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about>>> LV potential with supporting major league sports.>>>
"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps>>> and bounds. Local officials estimate that a new home is built every>>> 20 minutes, as 5,000 people move to the city every month. 88 new>>> schools are being built, and the number of hospitals has tripled>>> over the past few years. <snip>>>>
When you drive into Las Vegas from the south, you dscend into the>> valley about ten miles south of the Strip, and I noticed that there>> are new homes being built on that fringe, right up against where the>> land becomes too steep (at least for now). That whole valley will>> probably become filled with development before long.>
If the BLM will sell the land, development will creep south along> I-15 toward the Calif. border, and northwest along US 95 toward Indian> Springs. Less likely toward Mesquite or Searchlight.>
There's talk of building housing in Arizona south of Lake Mead NRA once > the bridge on US 93 across Black Canyon (Hoover Dam) is complete. No idea > what they'll do for water out there...>
The southern limit could be the Mojave Preserve about 10 mines south of
Primm, and over to the US 95 as far as Bullhead City. The entire western
edge of Lake Mead NRA would be a wall of condos and 'snout houses'....


Add comment
C.O. 25 April 2005 02:41:52 permanent link ]
 In some papers last week, there were articles about population growth.
Arizona and Nevada are the two fastest growing states in the country,
and it is expected to continue to be that way.

Add comment
Pat O'Connell 25 April 2005 05:44:23 permanent link ]
 David Keenan wrote:> "Pat O'Connell" <nvcaver.FIGUREITOU­T@cox.net> wrote in message > news:T0Eae.3340$Zi.­1586@fed1read04...>>­ David Keenan wrote:>>> "Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in message >>> news:p­Qhae.26115$gV­.4672@lakeread02...>­>>> I really don't know much about LV's growth rate, or any statistics>>>> about the city, but i stumbled across this web site talking about>>>> LV potential with supporting major league sports.>>>>
"The potential fan base for MLB in Las Vegas is growing by leaps>>>> and bounds. Local officials estimate that a new home is built every>>>> 20 minutes, as 5,000 people move to the city every month. 88 new>>>> schools are being built, and the number of hospitals has tripled>>>> over the past few years. <snip>>>>>
When you drive into Las Vegas from the south, you dscend into the>>> valley about ten miles south of the Strip, and I noticed that there>>> are new homes being built on that fringe, right up against where the>>> land becomes too steep (at least for now). That whole valley will>>> probably become filled with development before long.>>
If the BLM will sell the land, development will creep south along>> I-15 toward the Calif. border, and northwest along US 95 toward Indian>> Springs. Less likely toward Mesquite or Searchlight.>>
There's talk of building housing in Arizona south of Lake Mead NRA once >> the bridge on US 93 across Black Canyon (Hoover Dam) is complete. No idea >> what they'll do for water out there...>>
The southern limit could be the Mojave Preserve about 10 mines south of> Primm, and over to the US 95 as far as Bullhead City. The entire western> edge of Lake Mead NRA would be a wall of condos and 'snout houses'....

There are a lot of wilderness areas and slightly less protected mountain
ranges between I-15 and Lake Mojave. Not much water that hasn't been
spoken for though...

--
Pat O'Connell
[note munged EMail address]
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
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CarGuru > Driving > Las Vegas, are you kidding me? 25 April 2005 05:44:23

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