Re: Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads

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CarGuru > Driving > Re: Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads 16 April 2005 07:22:17

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Re: Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads
Larry Gross 13 April 2005 12:30:35
	"I think that toll roads are a good concept in certain cases, but I am not in favor of adding tolls to a non-toll highway that was fully paid for with road user (fuel, license, registration) tax funds." ... but the problem seems to be that gasoline taxes do not pay for the life-cycle cost of roads which includes the original construction cost and then the longer-term maintenance costs. .. In Va and many other states the money coming in is dedicated first (and rightly so) to maintaining the existing roads and whatever is left over to construction of new roads. Problem is that as each year goes by (and more lane miles added along with rising maintenance costs), less and less money is available for new construction. But even if this was not so.. I've often wondered for tolls roads where promises were made to collect tolls only until the road was paid for... where the longer-term maintenance money was supposed to come from - if not from continued tolls. In other words... if the idea is to fund new roads by charging tolls... wouldn't you have to continue the tolls to maintain the roads? Of course now, we've gone beyond that with the concept that collected tolls will not only pay for construction and maintenance of the toll road but that excess monies would be used for other transportation projects. There is a legitimate issue of who and how to pay for roads and other transportation infrastructure these days but in general it appears that the idea of collecting 'user fees' - as opposed to using general tax revenue is accepted as a fair approach. Some don't like the idea of motorist user fees being used to fund other non-motorist transportation infrastructure but it also appears that things are headed that way in the absence of support for other funding mechanisms (such as raising the gas tax itself). The other aspect is that not a small number of people whether policy wonks, transportation professionals or politicians are starting to accept the premise that simply building more roads won't really make major improvements in rush-hour congestion and that 'managing' congestion - especially at rush hour via variable "congestion pricing" tolls can be more effective... in other words... impose financial consequences on those who choose to drive at rush hour.
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Scott M. Kozel 13 April 2005 02:20:28 [ permanent link ]
	"Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads" THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Moves Affect More Than a Third of Highways, Bridges and Tunnels That Currently Charge Fees By DANIEL MACHALABA April 12, 2005; Page D1 There is a new bump in the road for commuters already stressed out by sky-high gasoline prices and gridlocked drives to work. Tolls on more than a third of the 5,000 miles of highways, bridges and tunnels that make drivers pay to use them have either been raised during the past year or are set to increase by the end of next month. The toll increases are steep and affect millions of commuters on some of the busiest traffic arteries in the U.S. It now costs $3 -- up from $2 last summer -- to cross the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge and six other state-owned bridges in the Bay Area. Pennsylvania socked drivers with an average price rise of 43% on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, the fastest route between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. The New York State Thruway Authority plans an average increase of 25% for cars and 35% for trucks starting in mid-May on the 641-mile highway system, the country's longest toll road. Tolls there will rise as high as $18.50, from the current $14.70. Road and bridge officials say the increases are desperately needed to repair or rebuild thoroughfares crumbling after decades of surging traffic. Pennsylvania's toll increase last August was its first since 1991. Tolls on the New York State Thruway haven't changed since 1988. At the same time, the number of vehicles on U.S. roads, including trucks and buses, has far outstripped the increase in the number of miles of new roads added. And fuel taxes traditionally used to pay for highways aren't bringing in enough money to fix existing roads. Proceeds from toll roads also help subsidize subways, buses, commuter trains and even the Erie Canal in upstate New York. TAKING A TOLL Some of the rate increases on major toll roads around the country Toll Roads, Bridges and Tunnels Length Toll Hike New York State Thruway 641 miles 25%* Dulles Toll Road (northern Virginia) 14 miles 100 MTA Bridges and Tunnels (New York) 13 miles 13 Maine Turnpike 106 miles 22 Illinois Tollway (Chicago) 274 miles 56 Pennsylvania Turnpike 531 miles 43 Kansas Turnpike 236 miles 5 Metropolitan Transportation Commission (San Francisco Bay Area) 32 miles 50 *For cars; truck tolls will rise 35% "It's a new dawn for toll roads," says Jack Hartman, executive director of the Illinois Tollway. Proceeds from a 56% toll increase in January are being plowed into a 10-year project that will replace stretches of the 274-mile highway network with more-durable pavement, new lanes and an extension into fast-growing areas southwest of Chicago. The higher tolls add up to more misery for commuters already battered by rising gas prices. Average prices for regular unleaded gasoline are now at about $2.22 a gallon, up 44 cents from a year ago, according to the Department of Energy. As a result of the toll increases, Garen Tchopourian expects to spend an extra $200 over the next year to cross the Throgs Neck Bridge during his 65-mile round-trip commute to his job as technical director of a hedge-fund company in White Plains, N.Y. The bridge is one of nine bridges and tunnels in the New York City area where tolls rose 13% last month. "When you put the gas price together with the increase in tolls, it makes you think twice if you want to get that extra cup of coffee during the day," says Mr. Tchopourian, who is 36 years old and has a newborn baby. The rising toll prices are leading drivers like Betsy Mercogliano, a childbirth educator in Albany, N.Y., to take other forms of transportation. Instead of paying about $20 in tolls during the 375-mile drive to visit her parents in Washington, D.C., she and her husband try to fly. One-way airfares on Southwest Airlines from Albany to Baltimore/Washington International Airport are as low as $39. Tolls on the New York State Thruway were supposed to disappear nearly a decade ago, when the bonds that financed construction of the highway, which opened in 1954, were paid off. But those plans were abandoned when state officials decided that they wanted the Thruway, which carries 230 million vehicles a year, to fund another highway that is toll-free. Continuing to levy the tolls shifts the burden of road-maintenance costs to Thruway users rather than to all taxpayers. Similar cross-subsidy arrangements are common in other states, too. "It's not fair to make commuters who have to use their cars pay higher tolls for something they won't use," says Ken Reid of Leesburg, Va., a leader of a group urging drivers to boycott the Dulles Toll Road in northern Virginia. The 14-mile road's maximum toll doubles to $3 next month, with the increase helping to fund a new rail line. While toll roads represent less than 1% of the 3.9 million miles of roadways in the U.S., toll roads, bridges and tunnels collect about $6 billion a year, according to the International Bridge, Tunnel and Turnpike Association. Almost a dozen states are either building new toll roads, putting tollbooths on existing highways -- or seriously considering one of those two steps. Legislation that would accelerate the use of tolls on interstate roads is making its way through Congress. For people who want to avoid the toll roads altogether, the costs aren't insignificant. Typically that can mean a detour onto less-direct routes that can strand drivers in snail-paced traffic through densely packed downtowns or sprawling suburbs. The number of cars using the Pennsylvania Turnpike is down by less than 1% since last summer's toll increase. Road officials say they are sympathetic to consumers faced with the double whammy of rising tolls and gas prices. But they insist there is no other way to fix problems like the stretch of rough road that forced Mike Glesk, a strategic-planning consultant from Buffalo, N.Y., to hit the brakes during a drive on the Thruway with his family last fall. "I'd expect that on a two-lane back country road but not on a superhighway," he says. Michael Fleischer, executive director of the New York State Thruway Authority, says "simple fixes and Band-Aid solutions are no longer the right, cost-effective solutions." The impending toll increases will pay to rebuild entire sections of the highway, he says. Some toll-road operators are trying to soften the impact of higher tolls with smaller increases for drivers who pay electronically, using a transponder mounted on a car windshield that automatically deducts tolls from a customer's prepaid account. The Illinois Tollway plans to install overhead devices so that electronic-pay drivers wouldn't have to use tollbooths. With no end in sight to the higher tolls spreading across the country, Michael Lapolla, executive director of the New Jersey Turnpike Authority, is trying at least to get frazzled commuters to their destinations a bit quicker. Several toll barriers along the 173-mile Garden State Parkway, where drivers now pay 35 cents apiece, are being removed. (To compensate for that, the cost of the remaining tolls will be doubled.) Drivers are expected to save as much as five minutes from each stop that is eliminated. "It's just common sense," Mr. Lapolla says. [end article] -- Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
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HoustonFreeways 13 April 2005 04:41:35 [ permanent link ]
	"Almost a dozen states are either building new toll roads, putting tollbooths on existing highways -- or seriously considering one of those two steps." Which states, in addition to Texas, are putting toll booths on existing highways or gas-tax-funded highways?
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Scott M. Kozel 13 April 2005 05:12:59 [ permanent link ]
	"HoustonFreeways" <eslotboom@NOcomcastSPAM.com> wrote:> "Almost a dozen states are either building new toll> roads, putting tollbooths on existing highways -- or seriously> considering one of those two steps."> Which states, in addition to Texas, are putting toll booths on existing> highways or gas-tax-funded highways? None that I know of that are actually physically doing that now. A provision for up to 3 pilot toll Interstate projects was written into TEA-21, the federal transportation act that was enacted in October 1998 and is still in effect, and these would add tolls to pay for the upgrade of existing non-toll Interstate highways. The Virginia I-81 PPTA project has received conditional approval from FHWA for one of them, but no final decision has yet occurred by the state or FHWA as to whether this will become reality. -- Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
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HoustonFreeways 13 April 2005 05:40:23 [ permanent link ]
	None that I know of that are actually physically doing that now.> A provision for up to 3 pilot toll Interstate projects was written into> TEA-21, the federal transportation act that was enacted in October 1998> and is still in effect, and these would add tolls to pay for the upgrade> of existing non-toll Interstate highways. Tolling Interstates is most likely a more difficult task, even with the provisions you mention above. In Texas, all tolling activity is focused on state highways, not Interstate or US highways. So far no existing freeways have been tolled, although SH 249 in Houston narrowly escaped. Several limited-access facilities currently under construction and fully paid for with gasoline tax funds are going to be tolled. They are all state highways.
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Scott M. Kozel 13 April 2005 06:05:33 [ permanent link ]
	"HoustonFreeways" <eslotboom@NOcomcastSPAM.com> wrote:> Scott Kozel wrote:> None that I know of that are actually physically doing that now.> > A provision for up to 3 pilot toll Interstate projects was written into> > TEA-21, the federal transportation act that was enacted in October 1998> > and is still in effect, and these would add tolls to pay for the upgrade> > of existing non-toll Interstate highways.> Tolling Interstates is most likely a more difficult task, even with the> provisions you mention above. That program will be highly regulated by FHWA, with stipulations that the tolls cannot be higher than needed to pay off the toll revenue bonds, and that the highway must become toll free when the toll revenue bonds are paid off. In Texas, all tolling activity is focused on state highways, not Interstate> or US highways.> So far no existing freeways have been tolled, although SH 249 in Houston> narrowly escaped. Several limited-access facilities currently under> construction and fully paid for with gasoline tax funds are going to be> tolled. They are all state highways. I think that toll roads are a good concept in certain cases, but I am not in favor of adding tolls to a non-toll highway that was fully paid for with road user (fuel, license, registration) tax funds. -- Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
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Guest 13 April 2005 06:17:42 [ permanent link ]
	The problem is how do you pay for the necessary expansion of roads that may have been already paid for, but traffic doubles every 20-30 years. Where does the money come from? As someone ffar smarter then me said: Ther are no free roads.
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Robert Cruickshank 13 April 2005 07:28:39 [ permanent link ]
	HoustonFreeways wrote:> "Almost a dozen states are either building new toll> roads, putting tollbooths on existing highways -- or seriously> considering one of those two steps."> Which states, in addition to Texas, are putting toll booths on existing > highways or gas-tax-funded highways? Washington is putting up toll booths on WA-16 over the Tacoma Narrows Bridge to pay for the second span of that bridge that is currently under construction. The entire road itself will not be tolled - only the bridge itself, and only southbound (into Tacoma). The same will probably happen to the Evergreen Point floating bridge - the WA-520 bridge - when that is replaced sometime in the next 10 years. However, both of those are bridges that are going to be tolled, and neither of them are interstates. Washington is not considering tolling its highways, and the next biennial budget is expected to contain an increase in the gas tax. -- Robert I. Cruickshank roadgeek, historian, progressive
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Rick Powell 13 April 2005 07:36:04 [ permanent link ]
	The CA 91 example is the prototype of how to pay for extra capacity on free roads. Keep the existing free lanes free, expand with toll lanes. Take your chances with congestion in the free lanes or pay to ride in the Lexus lanes. CA 91 even has congestion pricing, with the toll maximizing in the peak travel times. Rick Powell IDOT District 3
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Guest 13 April 2005 09:28:46 [ permanent link ]
	Scott M. Kozel wrote:> > "HoustonFreeways" <eslotboom@NOcomcastSPAM.com> wrote:> > Which states, in addition to Texas, are putting toll booths on existing> > highways or gas-tax-funded highways?> None that I know of that are actually physically doing that now. If you consider the above to include HO/T lanes, MnDOT is in the process of converting the HOV lane along I-394 into a HO/T lane, with completion expected next month. Froggie \| Underway onboard USS McInerney (FFG-8) \| http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
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Gary V 13 April 2005 18:55:30 [ permanent link ]
	Larry Gross wrote:> But even if this was not so.. I've often wondered for tolls roads where> promises were made to collect tolls only until the road was paid> for... where the longer-term maintenance money was supposed to> come from - if not from continued tolls.> In other words... if the idea is to fund new roads by charging tolls...> wouldn't you have to continue the tolls to maintain the roads? This is how it worked for the Mackinac Bridge in Michigan. When the bonds for construction were paid off, the toll dropped to $1.50 to cover maintenance. Last year the toll had to be raised to $2.50 to cover increasing maintenance costs.
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Gk 14 April 2005 07:49:47 [ permanent link ]
	Larry Gross wrote:> "I think that toll roads are a good concept in certain cases, but I am> not in favor of adding tolls to a non-toll highway that was fully paid> for with road user (fuel, license, registration) tax funds."> ... but the problem seems to be that gasoline taxes do not pay for the> life-cycle cost of roads which includes the original construction cost> and then the longer-term maintenance costs.> .. In Va and many other states the money coming in is dedicated> first (and rightly so) to maintaining the existing roads and whatever> is left over to construction of new roads. Problem is that as each> year goes by (and more lane miles added along with rising> maintenance costs), less and less money is available for new> construction.> My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed. Someone once told me about the concept of having some pile of gold or silver or some metal hidden away somewhere that is supposed to be "backing it up". Now THAT'S real voodoo economics for us all. What diff would it make if we say that hole in the ground has 50 gaziliion dollars worth of metal in it or 500. Seems to me it would work better than bugging us for quarters and dollars each time we drive down the road or cross a river. GK
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Guest 14 April 2005 08:52:23 [ permanent link ]
	GK wrote:> My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why> doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed. Germany tried that after World War I when they were trying to pay reparations. All it did was devalue their money to where 100%+ inflation was a DAILY occurance... Froggie \| Underway onboard USS McInerney (FFG-8) \| http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
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William Lynch 14 April 2005 09:22:31 [ permanent link ]
	in article vLl7e.13492$Xm3.2704@trndny01, GK at ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net wrote on 4/13/05 8:49 PM: Larry Gross wrote:>> "I think that toll roads are a good concept in certain cases, but I am>> not in favor of adding tolls to a non-toll highway that was fully paid>> for with road user (fuel, license, registration) tax funds.">> ... but the problem seems to be that gasoline taxes do not pay for the>> life-cycle cost of roads which includes the original construction cost>> and then the longer-term maintenance costs.>> .. In Va and many other states the money coming in is dedicated>> first (and rightly so) to maintaining the existing roads and whatever>> is left over to construction of new roads. Problem is that as each>> year goes by (and more lane miles added along with rising>> maintenance costs), less and less money is available for new>> construction.>> My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why> doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build> and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed.> Someone once told me about the concept of having some pile of gold or> silver or some metal hidden away somewhere that is supposed to be> "backing it up". Now THAT'S real voodoo economics for us all.> What diff would it make if we say that hole in the ground has 50> gaziliion dollars worth of metal in it or 500. Seems to me it would work> better than bugging us for quarters and dollars each time we drive down> the road or cross a river. You are kidding, right? If not, spend some time looking up what happened in Germany in the mid 1920s. They did exactly what you suggest, and had such a mind boggling economic collapse that it eventually cost more than one quadrillion marks for a loaf of bread. Your view of what constitutes 'voodoo economics' is skewed 180 degrees from reality.
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Gk 15 April 2005 03:16:59 [ permanent link ]
	william lynch wrote:> in article vLl7e.13492$Xm3.2704@trndny01, GK at> ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net wrote on 4/13/05 8:49 PM:> Larry Gross wrote:>> "I think that toll roads are a good concept in certain cases, but I am>>>not in favor of adding tolls to a non-toll highway that was fully paid>>>for with road user (fuel, license, registration) tax funds.">>> ... but the problem seems to be that gasoline taxes do not pay for the>>>life-cycle cost of roads which includes the original construction cost>>>and then the longer-term maintenance costs.>>> .. In Va and many other states the money coming in is dedicated>>>first (and rightly so) to maintaining the existing roads and whatever>>>is left over to construction of new roads. Problem is that as each>>>year goes by (and more lane miles added along with rising>>>maintenance costs), less and less money is available for new>>>construction.>>> My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why>>doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build>>and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed.>> Someone once told me about the concept of having some pile of gold or>>silver or some metal hidden away somewhere that is supposed to be>>"backing it up". Now THAT'S real voodoo economics for us all.>> What diff would it make if we say that hole in the ground has 50>>gaziliion dollars worth of metal in it or 500. Seems to me it would work>>better than bugging us for quarters and dollars each time we drive down>>the road or cross a river.> You are kidding, right? If not, spend some time looking up what> happened in Germany in the mid 1920s. They did exactly what you> suggest, and had such a mind boggling economic collapse that it> eventually cost more than one quadrillion marks for a loaf of> bread.> Your view of what constitutes 'voodoo economics' is skewed 180> degrees from reality.> But, that is because somewhere we employ people to do not much else but watch the bars of gold or silver. These people should be put to work doing something productive instead. I mean why do the taxpayers have to borrow and then repay at greater cost when it shouldn't be our problem in the first place. GK
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Mark Roberts 15 April 2005 05:19:01 [ permanent link ]
	GK <ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net> had written: \| My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why \| doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build \| and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed. Are you Tom DeLay's economics adviser? -- Mark Roberts markrobt@myrealbox.com Permission to archive this article in any form is hereby explicitly denied.
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Gk 15 April 2005 09:49:22 [ permanent link ]
	Mark Roberts wrote:> GK <ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net> had written:> \| My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why > \| doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build > \| and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed.> Are you Tom DeLay's economics adviser? > Nope, I've heard of DeLay, but not familiar with his position on things. Admit it, I guess my suggestions make too much sense, kind of like taking down the toll booths and letting everybody go free. Humanity is not used to that kind of change and progress as "they" have us conditioned to keep "them" rich using their artificial doomsday laws and myths. I don't buy the bit about Germany. If inflation is a problem, just make inflation outright illegal. I know, you're gonna say we can't do it. It's because all the bankers have us conditioned to work for them and pay their salaries. Think different. GK
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William Lynch 15 April 2005 11:26:32 [ permanent link ]
	in article CBI7e.14795$Xm3.11367@trndny01, GK at ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net wrote on 4/14/05 10:49 PM: Mark Roberts wrote:>> GK <ontheairNOSPAM247@verizon.net> had written:>> \| My long term question is since they own the printing presses, why>> \| doesn't the Government just print up all the money they need to build>> \| and maintain all the roads, bridges, etc that are needed.>> Are you Tom DeLay's economics adviser?>> Nope, I've heard of DeLay, but not familiar with his position on things.> Admit it, I guess my suggestions make too much sense, kind of like> taking down the toll booths and letting everybody go free. No problem. Just either jack up the taxes of everyone, or let the roads and bridges crumble into dust. Yup, makes way too much sense.> Humanity is not used to that kind of change and progress as "they" have> us conditioned to keep "them" rich using their artificial doomsday laws> and myths.> I don't buy the bit about Germany. If inflation is a problem, just make> inflation outright illegal. Sure, that one does wonders in North Korea.> I know, you're gonna say we can't do it. It's because all the bankers> have us conditioned to work for them and pay their salaries.> Think different. There's nothing 'different' here.
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CarGuru > Driving > Re: Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads 16 April 2005 07:22:17

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Re: Steep Increases Set for Toll Roads

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