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CarGuru > Driving > Component Necessary to be a "Major League" City 21 March 2005 07:49:25
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Component Necessary to be a "Major League" City

Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 05:02:19
 Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a
city/metro area to declare itself "Major League."

-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the
metro area.
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to
enhance the area.
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*
-At least two major league professional sports teams*
-At least ONE symphony orchestra
-At least ONE major Professional School/University
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the
city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.
*-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's
favor.

Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the cut

Maine: None
New Hampshire: None
Vermont: None
Massachusettes: Boston
Rhode Island: None
Connecticut: None
New York: NYC, Buffalo
Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia
Maryland: Baltimore
Virginia: None
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte
South Carolina: None
Georgia: Atlanta
Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale
Alabama: None
Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville
Kentucky: Louisville
West Virginia: None
Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti
Indiana: Indianapolis
Michigan: Detroit
Illinois: Chicago
Wisconsin: Milwaukee
Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul
Iowa: None
N. Dakota: None
S. Dakota: None
Nebraska: None
Kansas: None
Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City
Mississippi: None
Louisiana: New Orleans
Arkansas: Little Rock
Oklahoma: None
Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin
New Mexico: None
Delaware: None
Colorado: Denver
Wyoming: None
Montana: None
Idaho: None
Washington: Seattle
Oregon: None
California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los Angeles, San
Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim
Hawaii: Honolulu
Alaska: None
Arizona: Phoenix
Utah: None


Add comment
Tim 17 March 2005 05:59:19 [ permanent link ]
 These parameters seems alarmingly similar to Rand McNally's index of a few
years ago.

How toll roads enhance metro areas and ease congestion is completely lost on
me. Seems like most people go out of their way to avoid using them,
increasing traffic on other roads.

--

Tim
Exit 4, NH 101

"Tropicsprite" <jguzzardo@tampabay­.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vG4_d.187506$J­F2.165594@tornado.ta­mpabay.rr.com...> Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system> -At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.> -At least one toll highway to ease congestion.> -A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.> -An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.> -A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*> -At least two major league professional sports teams*> -At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University> -At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)> -Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the
Maine: None> New Hampshire: None> Vermont: None> Massachusettes: Boston> Rhode Island: None> Connecticut: None> New York: NYC, Buffalo> Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia> Maryland: Baltimore> Virginia: None> North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> South Carolina: None> Georgia: Atlanta> Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale> Alabama: None> Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville> Kentucky: Louisville> West Virginia: None> Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti> Indiana: Indianapolis> Michigan: Detroit> Illinois: Chicago> Wisconsin: Milwaukee> Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul> Iowa: None> N. Dakota: None> S. Dakota: None> Nebraska: None> Kansas: None> Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City> Mississippi: None> Louisiana: New Orleans> Arkansas: Little Rock> Oklahoma: None> Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin> New Mexico: None> Delaware: None> Colorado: Denver> Wyoming: None> Montana: None> Idaho: None> Washington: Seattle> Oregon: None> California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los Angeles,
Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim> Hawaii: Honolulu> Alaska: None> Arizona: Phoenix> Utah: None>


Add comment
OG Loc 17 March 2005 06:29:29 [ permanent link ]
 TV's Tropicsprite wrote:> Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system> -At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.> -At least one toll highway to ease congestion.> -A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.> -An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.> -A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*> -At least two major league professional sports teams*> -At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University> -At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)> -Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the
cut:

<snip>
Arkansas: Little Rock

Little Rock does not have the following:

- Toll highways
- Population of 300K in the city and 2m in the metro area
- Major league sports teams
- More than one "major" I-route, at least in Little Rock itself. I-40 goes
through NLR but not LR. Unless you count I-530 as a "major" interstate.


--

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A
non-functioning mind is
clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard James Keenan

Add comment
Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts 17 March 2005 06:38:40 [ permanent link ]
 Any city with right-wing politics ought to be excluded - which now means
practically the entire United States.

Add comment
Michael G. Koerner 17 March 2005 06:40:28 [ permanent link ]
 Tropicsprite wrote:>
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system> -At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.> -At least one toll highway to ease congestion.> -A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.> -An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.> -A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*> -At least two major league professional sports teams*> -At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University> -At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)> -Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the cut
Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City

Kansas City is *NOT* the county seat of its major county (Jackson
County, where downtown KCMO is located), it is Independence, MO.

--
___________________­____________________­____ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | | _______________
Add comment
Dan Vincent 17 March 2005 06:51:27 [ permanent link ]
 This seems rather arbitrary and misses several borderline but otherwise
important cities. Also, you're missing New Jersey.

Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 17 March 2005 06:56:48 [ permanent link ]
 "Tropicsprite" <jguzzardo@tampabay­.rr.com> wrote:>
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League."
[...]
Maryland: Baltimore> Virginia: None

Washington, D.C., 5.2 million metro population, with over 2 million in
each of Maryland and Virginia. The area meets all of your criteria.

Baltimore metro area has 2.6 million population aside from from the
above D.C. area figures.
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte

Neither of them has a "sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system",
neither of them has a "toll highway", Raleigh has less than "300,000 in
one city", and neither has "over 2 million in the metro area" (metro pop
1.2 million for Raleigh/Durham, 1.4 million for Charlotte).

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
Add comment
OG Loc 17 March 2005 07:00:38 [ permanent link ]
 TV's Michael G. Koerner wrote:>> Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City>
Kansas City is *NOT* the county seat of its major county (Jackson> County, where downtown KCMO is located), it is Independence, MO.

Also, Liberty is the county seat of Clay County, Platte City is the seat of
Platte County, and Harrisonville is the seat of Cass County. However, KCK
is the county seat of Wyandotte County, KS, which has a unified city/county
government.

St. Louis is an independent city. Does that count as a "county seat"?

--

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing. - Maynard
James Keenan

Add comment
Michael G. Koerner 17 March 2005 07:01:14 [ permanent link ]
 Tropicsprite wrote:>
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League."

Let's run Green Bay, WI by these criteria. :-)­
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system

Not quite, but cabs are available 24/7
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.

One, soon to be two. :-)­
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.

No tollways in Wisconsin (I guess that drops Milwaukee, too) :-(­
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.

Well, the signals from the local TV transmitters cover nearly that many people.

OTOH, the Cities of Minneapolis, MN and Miami, FL are both barely over
that 300k floor.
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.

The Green Bay-Appleton corridor isn't called the 'Paper Valley' for no
reason at all. :-)­
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*

Likely close, if not over. :-)­
-At least two major league professional sports teams*

Does one count?
-At least ONE symphony orchestra

hmmmmm, there might be one, I'll have to check.
-At least ONE major Professional School/University

UWGreen Bay is a four year Div I school. :-)­
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)

Not sure if there are any scheduled flights to/from Canada at GRB, but
it is set up to serve them. :-)­
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.

Yep, Green Bay is the county seat of Brown County. :-)­
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the cut
Wisconsin: Milwaukee

--
___________________­____________________­____ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | | _______________
Add comment
Michael G. Koerner 17 March 2005 07:03:01 [ permanent link ]
 "Scott M. Kozel" wrote:>
"Tropicsprite" <jguzzardo@tampabay­.rr.com> wrote:> >
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> > city/metro area to declare itself "Major League."> [...]>
Maryland: Baltimore> > Virginia: None>
Washington, D.C., 5.2 million metro population, with over 2 million in> each of Maryland and Virginia. The area meets all of your criteria.>
Baltimore metro area has 2.6 million population aside from from the> above D.C. area figures.>
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte>
Neither of them has a "sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system",> neither of them has a "toll highway", Raleigh has less than "300,000 in> one city", and neither has "over 2 million in the metro area" (metro pop> 1.2 million for Raleigh/Durham, 1.4 million for Charlotte).

I might be mistaken, but didn't RDU recently lose all of its
international flights, too?

--
___________________­____________________­____ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | | _______________
Add comment
SP Cook 17 March 2005 07:30:48 [ permanent link ]
 
Tropicsprite wrote:> Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements
for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system

I guess "sophisticated" means "not buses" but includes subways built
(and last cleaned) in the 19th century. Lots of cities rely only on
buses for transit. These are no more or less for doing so, often the
most approprate thing to do.
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.

Self-fufulling, since most interstates intersect in cities.
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.

You say "to ease congestion" but on your list you list not only cities
with new congestion releaving toll roads, but places with old toll
roads from back in the "toll road boom" of the mid 50s, and places that
have no toll roads, but rather toll bridges, which are again
self-fufilling, because major waterways are often toll bridged and
major waterways are where cities are build.
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in
metro area.

OK, why. Tidewater is less of a place because it has multi-cites
because . . ?
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.

I guess this is a shot at Vegas and Orlando. I don't understand that.
Why not exclude "places that depend on the artificial spending of
government in the form of capitals (Washington, Columbus, Sacramento,
etc) or in the form of military (Tidewater, Jacksonville, etc) or
retirees spending money earned years ago elsewhere (Tampa, Miami, etc).

-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*

Because certainly a city of 100M people making $25K per year isn't
really a city?
-At least two major league professional sports teams*

OK. But that depends on what that means. A NASCAR track or a stop on
the PGA tour are probably more "major" than an NHL team, or even the
NBA.
-At least ONE symphony orchestra

For the 50 folks that like that.
-At least ONE major Professional School/University

Don't know of a city that doesn't have some place that a least CALLS
itself a "university" in the cheepened form that that title has now.
But OK. So I guess that Wayne State, Sacramento State, and UT-San
Antonio qualify under this critera, under the list below????
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from
city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)

Why does Canada count? Flights from Canada (and some of the
Carribbean) are "pre-cleared" meaning no customs presence needed. Heck
you can fly from Fargo to Winipeg.
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.

Lots of big cities are not county seats. Lots of small towns are state
capitols, even of big states. Albany, Tallahassee, Springfield,
Madison, Lancing, etc.
*-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that
city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make
the cut>
Virginia: None

Tidewater is a major city.
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte

Greensboro/Winston-­Salem/"Triad"
Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale

Not Ft. Lauderdale, which is part of Greater Miami, and yes to Orlando
and Jacksonville.
Kentucky: Louisville

not
Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti

Columbus? A big college (government transfer payments), a state
capitol (government transfer payments) and 45 other people.
Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul

Minneapolis/St. Paul, AKA "Twin Cities"

Arkansas: Little Rock

Little Rock????????? If Little Rock is a major city, then I can list
50 others.
Oklahoma: None

Including OK City and Tulsa
Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin

Dallas/Ft. Worth/"Metroplex".
Washington: Seattle

Seattle/Tacoma
Oregon: None

Portland/Vancouver,­ WA
California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los
Angeles, San> Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim

San Francisco Bay Area, Los Angeles Basin, San Diego, maybe you count
"Orange County" as a subset of LA, maybe as its own.
Hawaii: Honolulu

Major industry #1 military (transfer money), #2 tourism, which you
excluded, #3 government (transfer money), #4 retiree from elsewhere
(transfer money).
Utah: None

Salt Lake City, the fastest growing city in America.

Add comment
Presnwap 17 March 2005 07:44:34 [ permanent link ]
 
Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale

How come Rando doesn't count!!


Add comment
Magyar 17 March 2005 08:22:51 [ permanent link ]
 "Dan Vincent" <kefka@nycap.rr.com­> wrote in message
news:1111027887.416­067.157960@l41g2000c­wc.googlegroups.com.­..> This seems rather arbitrary and misses several borderline but otherwise> important cities. Also, you're missing New Jersey.

I don't think of Newark, Trenton, Camden, or Atlantic City as being "major
league" cities.
New Jersey can stay missing far as I'm concerned.

--
Sandor Gulyas
Graduate Student - Louisiana St. University
Dept. of Geography & Anthropology

"Many people talking
But a mighty few people know"
-- Alick "Rice" Miller (aka Sunny Boy Williamson [II]) from Dissatisfied


Add comment
Justin Priola 17 March 2005 08:27:25 [ permanent link ]
 
Tropicsprite wrote:> Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements
for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League."

I will have to respectfully disagree about New Orleans fitting your
criteria as a "major league city":>
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system

No, most buses quit around midnight, though the 2 streetcar lines are
24/7 operations - of course, that's only two out of dozens of lines.
And no, I don't consider streetcars to be "sophisticated."
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.

Just one, unless you consider I-55 and 59 to serve N.O. directly.
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.

no, unless you count long overwater toll bridges as "toll roads" ;-)­
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in
metro area.

N.O. metro popl.: 1.3 million, stagnant growth
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.

The N.O. economy basically survives on tourism. There is nothing else
meaningful that generates outside income.
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*

just makes it, $27,133 according to
http://en.wikipedia­.org/wiki/New_Orlean­s, but frankly this area is
destitute.
-At least two major league professional sports teams*

Saints and Hornets - we'll see how long that can last. This area IMO
does not have the financial wherewithal to support two professional
sports teams. Frankly I think we could just as well chuck the lot of
them and spend the money on better things, such as roads and schools.
-At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University

Interesting fact: N.O. did not have a publicly supported university
located in the region until 1958, it was one of the last cities for
which this was true.
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from
city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....­......you can't even get a direct flight to the West
coast from N.O., much less a foreign country.
Though there are a couple of flights to Mexico, so I guess we still
qualify.
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that
city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make
the cut>
Maine: None> New Hampshire: None> Vermont: None> Massachusettes: Boston> Rhode Island: None> Connecticut: None> New York: NYC, Buffalo> Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia> Maryland: Baltimore> Virginia: None> North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> South Carolina: None> Georgia: Atlanta> Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale> Alabama: None> Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville> Kentucky: Louisville> West Virginia: None> Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti> Indiana: Indianapolis> Michigan: Detroit> Illinois: Chicago> Wisconsin: Milwaukee> Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul> Iowa: None> N. Dakota: None> S. Dakota: None> Nebraska: None> Kansas: None> Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City> Mississippi: None> Louisiana: New Orleans> Arkansas: Little Rock> Oklahoma: None> Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin> New Mexico: None> Delaware: None> Colorado: Denver> Wyoming: None> Montana: None> Idaho: None> Washington: Seattle> Oregon: None> California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los
Angeles, San> Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim> Hawaii: Honolulu> Alaska: None> Arizona: Phoenix> Utah: None

Add comment
Steve 17 March 2005 09:26:04 [ permanent link ]
 Tropicsprite wrote:
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system

Not Boston - or most cities. Not profitable during late nights.
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.

Providence, RI only has one. Fresno, CA only has one. For Pete's sake,
how about Oakland, CA? How do you define "interstate"? If it's not
"Interstate", then basically all cities have that.
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.

Irrelevant.
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.> -An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.

Name a city that relies solely on tourists that would otherwise meet
these criteria. You can't have a population as described above without
having a vibrant economy. I'll take the "uses tourism" part, though.
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*> -At least two major league professional sports teams*> -At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University

Define major. So many places have this, it's almost not worth including.
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)> -Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.

Irrelevant entirely. As near as I recall, Camden, NJ is NOT the seat of
Camden County, for example.
*-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.>


--
Steve
Civil Engineering (Course 1) at MIT

Add comment
OG Loc 17 March 2005 09:39:44 [ permanent link ]
 TV's Magyar wrote:> "Dan Vincent" <kefka@nycap.rr.com­> wrote in message> news:1111027887.416­067.157960@l41g2000c­wc.googlegroups.com.­..>> This seems rather arbitrary and misses several borderline but otherwise>> important cities. Also, you're missing New Jersey.>
I don't think of Newark, Trenton, Camden, or Atlantic City as being "major> league" cities.> New Jersey can stay missing far as I'm concerned.

If you visit New Jersey you might just end up missing.

--

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing
- Maynard James Keenan

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Sancho Panza 17 March 2005 10:12:28 [ permanent link ]
 
"Steve" <smalpert@hackmit.e­du> wrote in message
news:42391481$0$559­$b45e6eb0@senator-be­dfellow.mit.edu...> Irrelevant entirely. As near as I recall, Camden, NJ is NOT the seat of
Camden County, for example.

While setting fancy criteria, it might be advisable to visit a Web site,
even if one doesn't have the stones to cast aspersions about some place he
doesn't know well:

520 Market Street, 15th Floor
Camden,NJ 08102
(856) 225-5466
Fax: (856) 225-5574

http://www.camdenco­unty.com/government/­2004directory.pdf



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Jason Pawloski 17 March 2005 10:51:04 [ permanent link ]
 
"Tropicsprite" <jguzzardo@tampabay­.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vG4_d.187506$J­F2.165594@tornado.ta­mpabay.rr.com...> Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a> city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system> -At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.> -At least one toll highway to ease congestion.> -A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> metro area.> -An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.> -A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*> -At least two major league professional sports teams*> -At least ONE symphony orchestra> -At least ONE major Professional School/University> -At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the> city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)> -Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the
Maine: None> New Hampshire: None> Vermont: None> Massachusettes: Boston> Rhode Island: None> Connecticut: None> New York: NYC, Buffalo> Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia> Maryland: Baltimore> Virginia: None> North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> South Carolina: None> Georgia: Atlanta> Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale> Alabama: None> Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville> Kentucky: Louisville> West Virginia: None> Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti> Indiana: Indianapolis> Michigan: Detroit> Illinois: Chicago> Wisconsin: Milwaukee> Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul> Iowa: None> N. Dakota: None> S. Dakota: None> Nebraska: None> Kansas: None> Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City> Mississippi: None> Louisiana: New Orleans> Arkansas: Little Rock> Oklahoma: None> Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin> New Mexico: None> Delaware: None> Colorado: Denver> Wyoming: None> Montana: None> Idaho: None> Washington: Seattle> Oregon: None> California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los Angeles,
Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim> Hawaii: Honolulu> Alaska: None> Arizona: Phoenix> Utah: None>

Phoenix does not have 24 hour mass transit, not to mention no tollways. Does
Boston? I remember one of those amusing "How To Speak Bostonian" articles
say something about not having 24 hour mass transit (after all, they're not
New Yahk).

Jason


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Monte Castleman 17 March 2005 16:28:51 [ permanent link ]
 
Here is what I would like to nominate as the unofficial requirements for a>city/metro area to declare itself "Major League.">
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system>-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.>-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.>-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the>metro area.>-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to>enhance the area.>-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*>-At least two major league professional sports teams*>-At least ONE symphony orchestra>-At least ONE major Professional School/University>-­At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from the>city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)>-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.>*-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's>favor.>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the cut>
Maine: None>New Hampshire: None>Vermont: None>Massachusettes­: Boston>Rhode Island: None>Connecticut: None>New York: NYC, Buffalo>Pennsylvani­a: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia>Maryla­nd: Baltimore>Virginia:­ None>North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte>South Carolina: None>Georgia: Atlanta>Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale>Alabama:­ None>Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville>Kentucky:­ Louisville>West Virginia: None>Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti>Indiana:­ Indianapolis>Michig­an: Detroit>Illinois: Chicago>Wisconsin: Milwaukee>Minnesota­: Minneapolis, St. Paul

I wouldn't call our transit system sophisticated, and it's not 24 hours a
day. No toll roads either, unless the upcoming HOT lanes on I-394 count.

I recall one public official took heat for saying the metro area would
become a "cold Omaha" if the Twins and Vikings left because we refused to
pay for new stadiums for wealthy team owners.
--
--^\____
| / Monte Castleman, <<Spamfilter in Use>>
| / Bloomington, MN <<to email, remove the "q" from address>>
| |
| *| Visit my Minnesota Highways Page:
|_____\ http://home.earthli­nk.net/~northstarhig­hways

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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:47:46 [ permanent link ]
 
St. Louis is an independent city. Does that count as a "county seat"?

Yes


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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:48:19 [ permanent link ]
 Can you say "Jimmy Hoffa?" ;)

"OG Loc" <watNOSPAMuzi@yahoo­.com> wrote in message
news:39sjh0F648fb1U­1@individual.net...>­ TV's Magyar wrote:> > "Dan Vincent" <kefka@nycap.rr.com­> wrote in message> > news:1111027887.416­067.157960@l41g2000c­wc.googlegroups.com.­..> >> This seems rather arbitrary and misses several borderline but otherwise> >> important cities. Also, you're missing New Jersey.> >
I don't think of Newark, Trenton, Camden, or Atlantic City as being
"major> > league" cities.> > New Jersey can stay missing far as I'm concerned.>
If you visit New Jersey you might just end up missing.>
-- >
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.> A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing> - Maynard James Keenan>


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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:50:29 [ permanent link ]
 
Washington, D.C., 5.2 million metro population, with over 2 million in> > each of Maryland and Virginia. The area meets all of your criteria.

Now anyone who doesn't think a NATIONAL capital DOESN'T qualify as "major
league" just lost common sense points in my book. I went by STATES. Of
course it is a major league city....
Baltimore metro area has 2.6 million population aside from from the> > above D.C. area figures.> >
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> >
Neither of them has a "sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system",> > neither of them has a "toll highway", Raleigh has less than "300,000 in> > one city", and neither has "over 2 million in the metro area" (metro pop> > 1.2 million for Raleigh/Durham, 1.4 million for Charlotte).>

That depends on if you include South Carolina cities in the metro areas
(some studies do, others don't)....
I might be mistaken, but didn't RDU recently lose all of its> international flights, too?>

If they have Air Canada there, no they didn't....
-- > ___________________­____________________­____ ____
_______________> Regards, | |\ ____> | | | | |\> Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise
again!> Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |> ___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | |
_______________


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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:52:16 [ permanent link ]
 
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.>
One, soon to be two. :-)­

When, what number and how?
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.>
No tollways in Wisconsin (I guess that drops Milwaukee, too) :-(­>
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in the> > metro area.>
Well, the signals from the local TV transmitters cover nearly that many
people.>
OTOH, the Cities of Minneapolis, MN and Miami, FL are both barely over> that 300k floor.>
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> > enhance the area.>
The Green Bay-Appleton corridor isn't called the 'Paper Valley' for no> reason at all. :-)­>
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*>
Likely close, if not over. :-)­>
-At least two major league professional sports teams*>
Does one count?>
-At least ONE symphony orchestra>
hmmmmm, there might be one, I'll have to check.>
-At least ONE major Professional School/University>
UWGreen Bay is a four year Div I school. :-)­>
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from
city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)>
Not sure if there are any scheduled flights to/from Canada at GRB, but> it is set up to serve them. :-)­>
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> > *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that city's> > favor.>
Yep, Green Bay is the county seat of Brown County. :-)­>
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make the
Wisconsin: Milwaukee>
-- > ___________________­____________________­____ ____
_______________> Regards, | |\ ____> | | | | |\> Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise
again!> Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |> ___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | |
_______________


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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:52:46 [ permanent link ]
 Rando????????? If you referring to Orlando, I have two words for you...

DISNEY WORLD!

"Presnwap" <presnwap@cox.netNO­SPAM> wrote in message
news:G27_d.66357$SF­.22769@lakeread08...­> > Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale>
How come Rando doesn't count!!>


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Tropicsprite 17 March 2005 16:59:14 [ permanent link ]
 
I will have to respectfully disagree about New Orleans fitting your> criteria as a "major league city":> >
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system>
No, most buses quit around midnight, though the 2 streetcar lines are> 24/7 operations - of course, that's only two out of dozens of lines.> And no, I don't consider streetcars to be "sophisticated."

Does that mean that San Francisco's transit system isn't sophisticated?
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.>
Just one, unless you consider I-55 and 59 to serve N.O. directly.>

Interesting argument....I 59 could, in theory be considered a direct
connection since it does simply transition by interchange into I-10
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.>
no, unless you count long overwater toll bridges as "toll roads" ;-)­>

I do...
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in> the> > metro area.>
N.O. metro popl.: 1.3 million, stagnant growth>

Really? Last info I saw had N.O. at 2.1 mil....but they may be counting
Baton Rouge....
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> > enhance the area.>
The N.O. economy basically survives on tourism. There is nothing else> meaningful that generates outside income.>

Does Jack Daniels have a distillery there and isn't Whitney National Bank
and Entergy both based there? I'd call that diversified...
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*>
just makes it, $27,133 according to> http://en.wikipedia­.org/wiki/New_Orlean­s, but frankly this area is> destitute.>
-At least two major league professional sports teams*>
Saints and Hornets - we'll see how long that can last. This area IMO> does not have the financial wherewithal to support two professional> sports teams. Frankly I think we could just as well chuck the lot of> them and spend the money on better things, such as roads and schools.>
-At least ONE symphony orchestra> > -At least ONE major Professional School/University>
Interesting fact: N.O. did not have a publicly supported university> located in the region until 1958, it was one of the last cities for> which this was true.>

Here in Tampa, USF did not come online until 1959....
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from> the> > city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....­......you can't even get a direct flight to the West> coast from N.O., much less a foreign country.> Though there are a couple of flights to Mexico, so I guess we still> qualify.>

Yes you do, even though N.O. has one of the DIRTIEST airports I've ever seen
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.> > *-can be ignored if other conditions are overwhelmingly in that> city's> > favor.> >
Based on THAT information, the following cities based by state make> the cut> >
Maine: None> > New Hampshire: None> > Vermont: None> > Massachusettes: Boston> > Rhode Island: None> > Connecticut: None> > New York: NYC, Buffalo> > Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia> > Maryland: Baltimore> > Virginia: None> > North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> > South Carolina: None> > Georgia: Atlanta> > Florida: Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale> > Alabama: None> > Tennessee: Memphis, Nashville> > Kentucky: Louisville> > West Virginia: None> > Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinatti> > Indiana: Indianapolis> > Michigan: Detroit> > Illinois: Chicago> > Wisconsin: Milwaukee> > Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul> > Iowa: None> > N. Dakota: None> > S. Dakota: None> > Nebraska: None> > Kansas: None> > Missouri: St. Louis, Kansas City> > Mississippi: None> > Louisiana: New Orleans> > Arkansas: Little Rock> > Oklahoma: None> > Texas: Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin> > New Mexico: None> > Delaware: None> > Colorado: Denver> > Wyoming: None> > Montana: None> > Idaho: None> > Washington: Seattle> > Oregon: None> > California: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento, Los> Angeles, San> > Bernadino, San Diego, Anaheim> > Hawaii: Honolulu> > Alaska: None> > Arizona: Phoenix> > Utah: None>


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Michael G. Koerner 17 March 2005 21:35:27 [ permanent link ]
 Tropicsprite wrote:>
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.> >
One, soon to be two. :-)­>
When, what number and how?

(regarding Green Bay, WI) Didn't you see the very active recent thread
about US 41 being 'promoted' into a 'future interstate'?

--
___________________­____________________­____ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________­____________________­____ | | | | | | _______________
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Daniel T. 17 March 2005 23:30:19 [ permanent link ]
 While a lot of this criteria makes sense, I think a points-based system
would work better than "yes or no," where each category has a certain
number of points assigned to it based on a number of criteria, and a
threshold of total points is determined for inclusion on the list.
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system
Maybe 18 hours a day. And what is sophisticated? Light rail? Commuter
rail? Buses only? As long as the system runs efficiently and gets
people where they want to go, who cares if it's trains or rickshaws?
-At least two major interstate highways running through or into it.
Better to say that a city has part of the NHS running through or into
it.
-At least one toll highway to ease congestion.
This means very little in the West, where there are fewer toll roads.
And if a city has a well-functioning freeway network without a toll
road, it loses points? Better to score on comparing average commute
time vs. distance. Even then, does more traffic congestion mean a city
isn't as "major league?"
-A population of at least 300,000 in ONE city, and over 2 million in
metro area.
I'd say 1.75 million for the metro area. And for cities that are part
of multiple-city metro areas (i.e., L.A. or the Bay Area): Do you
include the entire metro area or just that city's metro area? Would
Fort Worth be as large as it is if Dallas didn't exist? Oakland or San
Jose without San Francisco?
Also, does Mesa qualify because of its population (500,000) because of
the Phoenix metro area (3 million)?
-An economy that does NOT rely solely on tourists but uses tourism to> enhance the area.
Tourism and economy should be two separate issues. Being a major
tourist destination keeps a city is constantly in people's thoughts and
certainly is a good measure for "major league" status. On the other
hand, a balanced economy is very important.
Also, look at convention attendance in the city.
-A median income of at least $26,000 per year.*
This should be flexible based on the cost of living in that part of the
country. An income of $26,000/year has a lot different meaning in
Manhattan than in Sioux Falls.
-At least two major league professional sports teams*
Again, a points system should be used. While the "big four" leagues are
important, other sports (NASCAR, golf events, Arena Football, WBNA) can
be important. And, in many cities D-1 football or basketball can be
nearly as large a draw as the major league sports. And all of those
sports should be graded on attendance versus capacity, and *perhaps* on
the performance on those teams.
-At least ONE symphony orchestra
Rather than using just the symphony orchestra as a barometer, use a
broader swath of arts/culture institutions, and base it on budget size
or annual attendance. Use art museums, professional theater companies,
ballet/dance companies that are based locally, and also whether the
city is a stop for national tours of shows. Also, is the city a stop
for pop/rock concert tours?
-At least ONE major Professional School/University
How to qualify? Enrollment? Athletic division? Number of Nobel winners
on staff? Also, is there a good support system for that University
(community colleges)?
-At least ONE airline that flies to an international destination from
city's airport (yes, Canada DOES count!)
Perhaps, or base the score on annual passengers enplaned (compared to
total population), number of non-stop flights vs. connecting flights,
and whether those flights are to major domestic hubs in addition to
international destinations.
-Be the county seat and/or state capitol for the area.
Also, does the Federal Government maintain regional offices in the
city?

If I had time, I could maybe come up with a primitive scoring system.
Right now, I'm too busy pretending to work and watching tourney scores.

-Daniel T.

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Guest 18 March 2005 00:18:47 [ permanent link ]
 [...]
-Sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system
[...]
Texas: Dallas, ...

Would be nice, but DART (Dallas) and The T (Fort Worth) aren't
***quite*** 24/7, and while either might think they're 'sophisticated',
they've got a ways to go. Last year, the DFW metro area attracted
150,000 new residents (average of 410 people/day!) while DART cut or
realigned routes and schedules, plus has made little progress in making
any new additions to its' 9-year-old limited light rail/commuter rail
system. Not all the suburbs participate in DART and The T so even if
there were 24/7 scheduling, you have a limited choice of destinations.
Arlington (between Dallas and Fort Worth) has seen it's citizens
repeatedly defeat any transit vote (their own, joining The T, or
joining DART); looks like they'd rather spend their tax $$ on Cowboys
and Rangers instead.

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OG Loc 18 March 2005 01:13:10 [ permanent link ]
 TV's Monte Castleman wrote:> I recall one public official took heat for saying the metro area would> become a "cold Omaha" if the Twins and Vikings left because we refused to> pay for new stadiums for wealthy team owners.

Omaha is actually a pretty happening place. I visited Neil B. a few years
ago and we went downtown to some clubs, and I was pleasantly surprised.

--

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing
- Maynard James Keenan

Add comment
Scott M. Kozel 18 March 2005 02:25:28 [ permanent link ]
 "Tropicsprite" <jguzzardo@tampabay­.rr.com> wrote:>
Scott Kozel wrote:> > > "Tropicsprite" wrote:> > >
North Carolina: Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte> > >
Neither of them has a "sophisticated 24-hour a day mass transit system",> > > neither of them has a "toll highway", Raleigh has less than "300,000 in> > > one city", and neither has "over 2 million in the metro area" (metro pop> > > 1.2 million for Raleigh/Durham, 1.4 million for Charlotte).>
That depends on if you include South Carolina cities in the metro areas> (some studies do, others don't)....

What part are you disputing? Those population figures are the most
recent U.S. Census Bureau figures, using their expansive definition of
'metropolitan area', and Charlotte metro includes territory in S.C.
Neither of them is anywhere near 2 million.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/W­ashington, D.C. http://www.roadstot­hefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways­.com
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William Lynch 18 March 2005 08:32:16 [ permanent link ]
 in article 39ua72F662bjgU1@ind­ividual.net, OG Loc at watNOSPAMuzi@yahoo.­com
wrote on 3/17/05 1:13 PM:
TV's Monte Castleman wrote:>> I recall one public official took heat for saying the metro area would>> become a "cold Omaha" if the Twins and Vikings left because we refused to>> pay for new stadiums for wealthy team owners.>
Omaha is actually a pretty happening place. I visited Neil B. a few years> ago and we went downtown to some clubs, and I was pleasantly surprised.

They would have to be nice clubs. There is *nothing else there*.

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Tropicsprite 20 March 2005 04:21:10 [ permanent link ]
 From what> I hear, the economy of Houston alone is larger than the entire economy> of the state of La.

And from what I know, that doesn't take much....
Not to discount the port's impact on the community, but it is much less> than what it used to be historically.

True, but it is still what gives New Orleans that "big city" feel.

The only port on the east coast that comes CLOSE to N.O. is (get ready for a
shocker here!) Tampa, which handles (get this) 50 mil tons of cargo per
year! That is more than Jacksonville, Miami, and Baltimore COMBINED!


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Hello Kitty 21 March 2005 07:49:25 [ permanent link ]
 
Magyar wrote:> "Dan Vincent" <kefka@nycap.rr.com­> wrote in message> news:1111027887.416­067.157960@l41g2000c­wc.googlegroups.com.­..> > This seems rather arbitrary and misses several borderline but
otherwise> > important cities. Also, you're missing New Jersey.>
I don't think of Newark, Trenton, Camden, or Atlantic City as being
"major> league" cities.> New Jersey can stay missing far as I'm concerned.>

Camden was recently ranked as the most dangerous city in the U.S.,
beating Detroit. That's gotta count for something, right?

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