Re: HONDA ENGINEERS SUCK!

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CarGuru > Driving > Re: HONDA ENGINEERS SUCK! 8 May 2005 21:07:40

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Re: HONDA ENGINEERS SUCK!
Ted B. 5 May 2005 17:28:48
	Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the>> speedometer. If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly>> trained to operate a vehicle anyway. -Dave>> That may be true, but a speedometer comes in handy on those roads where > the> posted limit is much lower than the design speed of the road. Guess where> speed traps get set up? The problem is the improperly set speed limits. You can't fix that problem by changing where speedometers are installed. If the powers that be truly cared about traffic safety, both speed limits and speedometers would be banned. Drivers should be DRIVING, not thinking about how the vehicle's velocity relates to a specific number. If you are going too fast for conditions, you shouldn't need to confirm that by looking at a speedometer. Also, a speedometer can give a poorly trained driver a false sense of security. That is, you can be driving way too fast for conditions and still be driving slower than the speed limit. -Dave
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Tae Oh 4 May 2005 02:57:35 [ permanent link ]
	I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to scrape off the bottom front part of your car! What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda????
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Jason 4 May 2005 04:01:15 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews>, Tae Oh <taeoh@hondasucks.com> wrote: I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed > the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical > parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a > drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to > scrape off the bottom front part of your car!> What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda???? Trade it in on a car or SUV that have a higher clearance. I agree that Honda engineers have done some stupid things but they have also done some great things. I really rented a car made by another company--it was much worse than my Honda Accord. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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Don Klipstein 4 May 2005 08:01:54 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews>, Tae Oh <taeoh@hondasucks.com> wrote:> I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed > the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical > parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a > drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to > scrape off the bottom front part of your car!> What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda???? The Oldsmobile that I have now does not clear many "parking bars". The Oldsmobile that I had before this one failed to clear some of them. The Ford that I had before both of these Oldsmobiles failed to clear enough of them. So I surely don't blame Honda for the existence of "parking bars" that can't be cleared by a Honda, Ford or Oldsmobile! - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
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Alex Rodriguez 4 May 2005 20:57:16 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews>, taeoh@hondasucks.com says... I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed >the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical >parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a >drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to >scrape off the bottom front part of your car!>What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda???? If you fix the nut behind the wheel, then this won't be a problem. ------------- Alex
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Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!! 4 May 2005 21:02:06 [ permanent link ]
	My Acura Integra used to do this. So I got larger tires and it stopped.
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Seth 4 May 2005 21:15:16 [ permanent link ]
	"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message news:d5ausc$opq$7@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...> In article <1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews>,> taeoh@hondasucks.com says...> I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed>>the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical>>parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a>>drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to>>scrape off the bottom front part of your car!>>What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda????> If you fix the nut behind the wheel, then this won't be a problem. I was figuring an electrical problem. Short between the steering wheel and the seat...
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Jason 5 May 2005 01:11:43 [ permanent link ]
	In article <Eq7ee.461$8g.56@news01.roc.ny>, "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: "Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message > news:d5ausc$opq$7@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...> > In article <1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews>,> > taeoh@hondasucks.com says...> > I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed> >>the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical> >>parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a> >>drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to> >>scrape off the bottom front part of your car!> >>What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda????> > If you fix the nut behind the wheel, then this won't be a problem.> I was figuring an electrical problem. Short between the steering wheel and > the seat... I suspect that everyone in this newsgroup could report complaints related to various design problems related to various vehicles they have owned. For example, I recently rented a Toyota Echo which is a really small and light car that is even taller (high center of gravity) than my Honda Accord. I was driving down the freeway and the wind almost blew the car into another car in another lane. I read about a small BMW car that has the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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Professor 5 May 2005 05:11:56 [ permanent link ]
	And just think... people change the springs to lower the car further... LOL Professor www.telstar-electronics.com Tae Oh wrote:> I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed> the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a> drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to scrape off the bottom front part of your car!> What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda????
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Mat 5 May 2005 06:03:56 [ permanent link ]
	"Tae Oh" <taeoh@hondasucks.com> wrote in message news:1115161055.7f41e6e8c0eb35c36f1c72c83eea4a99@teranews...>I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they designed> the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical> parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out of a> drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to> scrape off the bottom front part of your car! How much load is in the car when this happens? You got Fat Albert in there?? I always driven Civics no problem, small car, hang back a bit.
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Ted B. 5 May 2005 16:39:09 [ permanent link ]
	I read about a small BMW car that has> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the speedometer. If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to operate a vehicle anyway. -Dave
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TeGGeR® 5 May 2005 16:57:12 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in news:427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: I read about a small BMW car that has>> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.>> Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the> speedometer. If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly> trained to operate a vehicle anyway. -Dave > That may be true, but a speedometer comes in handy on those roads where the posted limit is much lower than the design speed of the road. Guess where speed traps get set up? -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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Michael Pardee 5 May 2005 17:03:07 [ permanent link ]
	"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jason-0405051411430001@pm4-> I read about a small BMW car that has> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> Our 2002 Toyota Prius has the digital spedometer/odometer, fuel guage and warning lights mounted in the top of the center of the dashboard. Very convenient, actually. No risk of the oil pressure light going unnoticed for an hour. To each their own. Mike
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Hubcap 5 May 2005 19:40:05 [ permanent link ]
	I read about a small BMW car that has>> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard. It's that way in my Mini (owned by BMW), perhaps that's what you're talking about. It's the biggest, coolest, easiest to read speedometer you could want... and the "center" of the Mini's dashboard is pretty close to "right in front of you" <g>... -Mike
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Jason 5 May 2005 20:33:00 [ permanent link ]
	In article <427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: I read about a small BMW car that has> > the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> > Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the speedometer. > If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to operate > a vehicle anyway. -Dave LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer on the passenger side or not even install one. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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Curtis CCR 5 May 2005 21:10:25 [ permanent link ]
	Scion does the same. Jeeps used to have center dash speedos too.
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Michael Pardee 5 May 2005 23:02:26 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> I read about a small BMW car that has>> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.>> Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the > speedometer. If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly > trained to operate a vehicle anyway. -Dave> Without the speedometer precision navigation is not possible (even with navi, failure to keep at the prescribed speed means predictions are out the window). I can leave a work site 150 miles from my office and tell my boss when I will arrive within ten minutes at worst, 5 minutes nominal, just by keeping my speed at the posted limit. When my wife and I are on vacation, she drives and I navigate. I tell her, "make your way into the right lane around 10:55" and she knows how long she has to just keep her eyes on the traffic around her and choose her lane without regard to where the next interchange is, and when to shift to manuever mode. And there is never a blip in our speed when passing a patrol car. The driver's eyes are to scan the instruments and the mirrors periodically - part of the Smith method of driving. Mike
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Stevie 5 May 2005 23:15:37 [ permanent link ]
	drivers eyes are never on the road 100% of the time. you have to watch other things while driving (rear-view mirror for example). "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net... I read about a small BMW car that has> the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the speedometer. If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to operate a vehicle anyway. -Dave
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Ted B. 5 May 2005 23:44:47 [ permanent link ]
	Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the >> speedometer.>> If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to >> operate>> a vehicle anyway. -Dave> LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer> on the passenger side or not even install one. Exactly. It shouldn't even be in the car. -Dave
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Ted B. 5 May 2005 23:48:39 [ permanent link ]
	Without the speedometer precision navigation is not possible (even with > navi, failure to keep at the prescribed speed means predictions are out > the window). I can leave a work site 150 miles from my office and tell my > boss when I will arrive within ten minutes at worst, 5 minutes nominal, > just by keeping my speed at the posted limit. OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational issue, or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get back to your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then you see my point. -Dave
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Ted B. 5 May 2005 23:49:48 [ permanent link ]
	"stevie" <sf@dum.org> wrote in message news:whuee.43076$c42.38251@fe07.lga...> drivers eyes are never on the road 100% of the time. you have to watch> other things while driving (rear-view mirror for example). Yes, but if they are ever on a speedometer, even for a split second, then safety is decreased somewhat. -Dave
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Michael Pardee 6 May 2005 00:32:39 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427a7898$0$64151$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...>>> Without the speedometer precision navigation is not possible (even with >> navi, failure to keep at the prescribed speed means predictions are out >> the window). I can leave a work site 150 miles from my office and tell my >> boss when I will arrive within ten minutes at worst, 5 minutes nominal, >> just by keeping my speed at the posted limit.> OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational > issue, or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get > back to your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then > you see my point. -Dave> But you can get from point A to Point B safely without the dashboard altogether. You don't need an oil warning light, gas guage, temperature guage or light. But all those are part of intelligent driving. People who disregard those or the speedometer are not making use of the valuable instrumentation. At least one small airplane from bygone years had a single instrument - a compass - but that doesn't make the grade in today's world. I know you are not suggesting we should do without instrumentation altogether; we just disagree about the importance of a speedometer. If you never look at your speedometer but rely on experience to judge your speed, you are actually relying on the drivers around you to look at their speedometers to calibrate your own perception. I have little faith in perceptions, though. Anyone who travels highway 89 from Flagstaff to Page, Arizona, regularly has been behind Navajo drivers, many of whom never look at the speedometer either and have had little experience with others around them keeping an eye on theirs. 15 mph fluctuations are common. Mike
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 01:22:26 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:44:47 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the >>> speedometer.>>> If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to >>> operate>>> a vehicle anyway. -Dave>> LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer>> on the passenger side or not even install one.> Exactly. It shouldn't even be in the car. -Dave > Neither should you, now that you mention it.
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 01:24:26 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:48:39 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: Without the speedometer precision navigation is not possible (even with >> navi, failure to keep at the prescribed speed means predictions are out >> the window). I can leave a work site 150 miles from my office and tell my >> boss when I will arrive within ten minutes at worst, 5 minutes nominal, >> just by keeping my speed at the posted limit.> OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational issue, >or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get back to >your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then you see my >point. -Dave > I think you're digging yourself in even deeper the longer you continue with this line.
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 01:26:39 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:49:48 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: "stevie" <sf@dum.org> wrote in message >news:whuee.43076$c42.38251@fe07.lga...>> drivers eyes are never on the road 100% of the time. you have to watch>> other things while driving (rear-view mirror for example).> Yes, but if they are ever on a speedometer, even for a split second, then >safety is decreased somewhat. -Dave > Wrong. The driver whose eyes are glued, unblinking, to the road in front of him is far more dangerous than the driver who is aware of his surroundings, including the speedometer, mirrors, and surrounding traffic.
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Brian Smith 6 May 2005 01:52:07 [ permanent link ]
	"hubcap" <hubcap@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:d5deol$g0f$1@hubcap.clemson.edu...> It's that way in my Mini (owned by BMW), perhaps that's> what you're talking about. It's the biggest, coolest, easiest> to read speedometer you could want... and the "center" of the> Mini's dashboard is pretty close to "right in front of you" <g>... Are you speaking of the 'new' Mini or an older model? I had a 1985 Cooper S, it was a blast to drive way back then. Brian
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Brian Smith 6 May 2005 01:57:31 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427a78dd$0$64151$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> Yes, but if they are ever on a speedometer, even for a split second, then > safety is decreased somewhat. -Dave Are you telling us that you don't look at the speedometer, fuel gauge, clock, radio or any of the myriad of gauges that can be on the dash of a modern vehicle? Not to mention the outside and inside mirrors, and turning your head to view as much as possible of what is happening around your vehicle when you're operating it? If that is what you are saying, you should have your driver's licence revoked, you are dangerous. Brian
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John 6 May 2005 09:53:34 [ permanent link ]
	"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jason-0505050933000001@pm4-broad-33.snlo.dialup.fix.net...> In article <427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>, "Ted> B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote:> I read about a small BMW car that has> > > the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> > > Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the speedometer.> > If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to operate> > a vehicle anyway. -Dave> LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer> on the passenger side or not even install one. The only time I ever look at the speedometer is if I'm concerned about the speed limit (police officers nearby) or testing something on my machine. That's about it. A tach is much more useful to me than a speedometer but still shouldn't be looked at while driving unless tuning/fixing something. Of course, they are only there to convey information that you might need. --> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.>
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John 6 May 2005 10:12:55 [ permanent link ]
	"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:8_CdnTOvrtFtH-ffRVn-iA@sedona.net...> "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message> news:427a7898$0$64151$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> >>> Without the speedometer precision navigation is not possible (even with> >> navi, failure to keep at the prescribed speed means predictions are out> >> the window). I can leave a work site 150 miles from my office and tell boss when I will arrive within ten minutes at worst, 5 minutes nominal,> >> just by keeping my speed at the posted limit.> > OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational> > issue, or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get> > back to your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then> > you see my point. -Dave> > But you can get from point A to Point B safely without the dashboard> altogether. You don't need an oil warning light, gas guage, temperature> guage or light. But all those are part of intelligent driving. People who> disregard those or the speedometer are not making use of the valuable> instrumentation. At least one small airplane from bygone years had a single> instrument - a compass - but that doesn't make the grade in today's world. know you are not suggesting we should do without instrumentation altogether;> we just disagree about the importance of a speedometer. The only one I "need" is the gas gauge because I don't want to be stranded anywhere. The rest are useless most of the time unless checking up on the vehicle and how it responds to certain conditions. If you never look at your speedometer but rely on experience to judge your> speed, you are actually relying on the drivers around you to look at their> speedometers to calibrate your own perception. What? I have little faith in> perceptions, though. In that case, you shouldn't be on the road at all. Anyone who travels highway 89 from Flagstaff to Page,> Arizona, regularly has been behind Navajo drivers, many of whom never look> at the speedometer either and have had little experience with others around> them keeping an eye on theirs. 15 mph fluctuations are common. Your real concern is the speed limit and not the speedometer. You fear getting ticketted or you don't trust yourself as a driver. Either way, it's not the safest choice while you're out there sharing the street with other drivers. Mike
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John 6 May 2005 10:18:21 [ permanent link ]
	"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message news:fFwee.68951$3V3.33752@edtnps89...> "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message> news:427a78dd$0$64151$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> > Yes, but if they are ever on a speedometer, even for a split second, then> > safety is decreased somewhat. -Dave> Are you telling us that you don't look at the speedometer, fuel gauge,> clock, radio or any of the myriad of gauges that can be on the dash of a> modern vehicle? Not to mention the outside and inside mirrors, and turning> your head to view as much as possible of what is happening around your> vehicle when you're operating it? If that is what you are saying, you should> have your driver's licence revoked, you are dangerous.> Brian Brian, get on topic. The discussion is concentrated on speedometers and their effect on driving. I agree with Bob that you have to know what's going on around you at any given time but I don't agree that you need a bunch of gauges to know that. Gauges are there to provide feedback as to the vehicle's condition and not the surroundings. You have to feel the car and be one with it. That's the ultimate goal. Drive skillfully! John
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John 6 May 2005 10:20:41 [ permanent link ]
	"Professor" <briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:1115255516.703427.190270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> And just think... people change the springs to lower the car further...> LOL What's your point professor? Just because someone doesn't like the way their car sits, doesn't mean that everyone has to take that stance. I lower if it's too high, or higher if it's too low. I like balance and compromise as little as possible. I don't care about what intelligent people or what ricers think. I care about how I want my car to behave. Professor> www.telstar-electronics.com> Tae Oh wrote:> > I am not sure what the designers at Honda were smoking when they> designed> > the Civic 2000. This model has a clearance that is lower than typical> parking bars. So every time you pull up a parking spot or getting out> of a> > drive way that is uneven with the road, you'd almost always manage to> scrape off the bottom front part of your car!> > What the f*ck is wrong with those morons at Honda????>
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Brian Smith 6 May 2005 15:06:05 [ permanent link ]
	"John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:FbqdnYJNjNzUcuffRVn-tQ@comcast.com...> Brian, get on topic. The discussion is concentrated on speedometers and> their effect on driving. I'm on topic. I agree with Bob that you have to know what's going on around you at any> given time but I don't agree that you need a bunch of gauges to know that.> Gauges are there to provide feedback as to the vehicle's condition and not> the surroundings. You have to feel the car and be one with it. That's the> ultimate goal. A large part of driving, involves knowing how your vehicle is operating. Some of those conditions are only readily available through the use of gauges. Such as coolant temperature, oil pressure, engine speed, battery condition, charging system condition, etc.. Drive skillfully! Constantly, through being aware of every aspect of what is happening around me, that's inside the vehicle and outside, for you novice drivers. Brian
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Ted B. 6 May 2005 16:23:01 [ permanent link ]
	OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational >>issue,>>or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get back to>>your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then you see my>>point. -Dave>> I think you're digging yourself in even deeper the longer you continue> with this line.> OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving? Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding tickets or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave
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Ted B. 6 May 2005 16:25:19 [ permanent link ]
	Are you telling us that you don't look at the speedometer, fuel gauge, > clock, radio or any of the myriad of gauges that can be on the dash of a > modern vehicle? Not to mention the outside and inside mirrors, and turning > your head to view as much as possible of what is happening around your > vehicle when you're operating it? If that is what you are saying, you > should have your driver's licence revoked, you are dangerous.> Brian My eyes are constantly in motion while driving. . . but hardly ever hit the speedometer. Did I mention I've got thirty years and well over a million miles of spotless driving record? That's because I'm a driver, not a speedometer watcher. -Dave
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Ted B. 6 May 2005 16:27:02 [ permanent link ]
	Of course flying an airliner is a long way from cruising the> interstate but it is goofy to suggest that cars shouldn't have> speedometers. It can be very difficult to judge your speed under some> conditions.> If you have to wonder, SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!! (sheesh, isn't that bvious?) -Dave
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Michael Pardee 6 May 2005 16:59:44 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427b61a6$0$34662$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving? > Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding > tickets or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave> Two years ago I was returning from Phoenix with my family at night. The freeway was nearly deserted so I had my high beams on and was cruising at 75 mph (the speed limit). When I saw the elk in my lane ahead we were plenty close, so I braked hard and changed lanes behind her. When I got past, I accelerated to what I thought was 60 or 65. A moment later I looked at the speedometer to see I was going 93 mph... the adrenaline had changed my perception of speed so much it felt slower. Dangerous indeed. Mike
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Michael Pardee 6 May 2005 17:03:44 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427b6230$0$34662$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> > Are you telling us that you don't look at the speedometer, fuel gauge, >> clock, radio or any of the myriad of gauges that can be on the dash of a >> modern vehicle? Not to mention the outside and inside mirrors, and >> turning your head to view as much as possible of what is happening around >> your vehicle when you're operating it? If that is what you are saying, >> you should have your driver's licence revoked, you are dangerous.>> Brian> My eyes are constantly in motion while driving. . . but hardly ever hit > the speedometer. Did I mention I've got thirty years and well over a > million miles of spotless driving record? That's because I'm a driver, > not a speedometer watcher. -Dave> My wife has 35 years spotless, and her mother died last year after more than 50 years spotless. They are/were speedometer watchers. (In case you are wondering, I was responsible for two accidents in the early 70s - both while I had my eyes on the road.) Mike
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Hubcap 6 May 2005 17:44:43 [ permanent link ]
	"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> writes:>Are you speaking of the 'new' Mini or an older model?>I had a 1985 Cooper S, it was a blast to drive way back then. "New" Mini. They're still a blast to drive. -Mike
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Ted B. 6 May 2005 19:38:06 [ permanent link ]
	"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:9JadncyISqbW9-bfRVn-gg@sedona.net...> "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message > news:427b61a6$0$34662$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...>> OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with >> driving? Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, >> speeding tickets or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave>> Two years ago I was returning from Phoenix with my family at night. The > freeway was nearly deserted so I had my high beams on and was cruising at > 75 mph (the speed limit). When I saw the elk in my lane ahead we were > plenty close, so I braked hard and changed lanes behind her. When I got > past, I accelerated to what I thought was 60 or 65. A moment later I > looked at the speedometer to see I was going 93 mph... the adrenaline had > changed my perception of speed so much it felt slower. Dangerous indeed.> Mike What was dangerous? You didn't know you were doing 93 until you looked at the speedometer. That right there tells me that you were most likely driving in a safe, sane, reasonable manner (even if a bit above the speed limit). When you realized you were doing 93MPH, what is it about that magic number (93MPH) that, all by itself, makes driving dangerous? Again, enlighten us. -Dave
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 20:42:43 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 6 May 2005 08:27:02 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: Of course flying an airliner is a long way from cruising the>> interstate but it is goofy to suggest that cars shouldn't have>> speedometers. It can be very difficult to judge your speed under some>> conditions.>> If you have to wonder, SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!! (sheesh, isn't that >bvious?) -Dave > And what about the ability to navigate based on distance? You've already lost the argument, why not cut your losses and try to establish some small degree of credibility?
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 20:44:43 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 5 May 2005 22:53:34 -0700, "John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote: "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message>news:jason-0505050933000001@pm4-broad-33.snlo.dialup.fix.net...>> In article <427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>, "Ted>> B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote:>> I read about a small BMW car that has>> > > the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.>> > > Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the>speedometer.>> > If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to>operate>> > a vehicle anyway. -Dave>> LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer>> on the passenger side or not even install one.> The only time I ever look at the speedometer is if I'm concerned about the>speed limit (police officers nearby) or testing something on my machine.>That's about it.> A tach is much more useful to me than a speedometer but still shouldn't be>looked at while driving unless tuning/fixing something.> Of course, they are only there to convey information that you might need. If your attention span is that limited, you have no business driving at all. You must be a sock puppet - I can't imagine two people coming up with such idiotic advice independently.
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 20:46:14 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 6 May 2005 08:23:01 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: OK, but that has nothing to do with DRIVING. That is a navigational >>>issue,>>>or maybe a time issue. Think of it this way . . . could you get back to>>>your office safely if your speedometer was broken? If so, then you see my>>>point. -Dave>>> I think you're digging yourself in even deeper the longer you continue>> with this line.>> OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving? >Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding tickets >or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave > Try navigating using directions involving mileage.
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Bob Ward 6 May 2005 20:49:28 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 5 May 2005 23:20:41 -0700, "John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote: "Professor" <briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message>news:1115255516.703427.190270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...>> And just think... people change the springs to lower the car further...>> LOL> What's your point professor? Just because someone doesn't like the way their>car sits, doesn't mean that everyone has to take that stance. I lower if>it's too high, or higher if it's too low. I like balance and compromise as>little as possible. I don't care about what intelligent people or what>ricers think. I care about how I want my car to behave. And you think that you know more about designing for proper handling than the engineers who created the car? Get real.
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Ted B. 6 May 2005 21:25:46 [ permanent link ]
	OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving?>>Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding >>tickets>>or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave>> Try navigating using directions involving mileage.> Most people would use an odometer for that, or even a trip odometer. -Dave
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Bob Ward 7 May 2005 00:25:21 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 6 May 2005 13:25:46 -0400, "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote: OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving?>>>Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding >>>tickets>>>or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave>>> Try navigating using directions involving mileage.>> Most people would use an odometer for that, or even a trip odometer. -Dave > And where does this astounding piece of equipment reside on the dashboard?
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Michael Pardee 7 May 2005 03:33:18 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427b8f5f$0$84395$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message > news:9JadncyISqbW9-bfRVn-gg@sedona.net...>> "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message >> news:427b61a6$0$34662$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...>>> OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with >>> driving? Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, >>> speeding tickets or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave>>> Two years ago I was returning from Phoenix with my family at night. The >> freeway was nearly deserted so I had my high beams on and was cruising at >> 75 mph (the speed limit). When I saw the elk in my lane ahead we were >> plenty close, so I braked hard and changed lanes behind her. When I got >> past, I accelerated to what I thought was 60 or 65. A moment later I >> looked at the speedometer to see I was going 93 mph... the adrenaline had >> changed my perception of speed so much it felt slower. Dangerous indeed.>> Mike> What was dangerous? You didn't know you were doing 93 until you looked at > the speedometer. That right there tells me that you were most likely > driving in a safe, sane, reasonable manner (even if a bit above the speed > limit). When you realized you were doing 93MPH, what is it about that > magic number (93MPH) that, all by itself, makes driving dangerous? Again, > enlighten us. -Dave> Where there is one elk there are more elk, and they all are colored to blend into the night and are the size of horses. If I had a scare from one using the cruise control at 75 mph, what do you suppose the effect of seeing an elk loom in front of the car at 93 mph would be, as opposed to 60 or 65 (which I intended to be doing). 93 isn't magic, but it represents twice the stopping distance of 60 mph. Dropping my speed by 30 mph made it seem very slow to my hopped-up mind, but it was a lot safer than 90+ was. Ignoring the speedometer could have been a very Bad Thing. Mike
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Scott en Aztln 7 May 2005 04:37:27 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 6 May 2005 16:33:18 -0700, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote: What was dangerous? You didn't know you were doing 93 until you looked at >> the speedometer. That right there tells me that you were most likely >> driving in a safe, sane, reasonable manner (even if a bit above the speed >> limit). When you realized you were doing 93MPH, what is it about that >> magic number (93MPH) that, all by itself, makes driving dangerous? Again, >> enlighten us. -Dave>> Where there is one elk there are more elk, and they all are colored to blend >into the night and are the size of horses. If I had a scare from one using >the cruise control at 75 mph, what do you suppose the effect of seeing an >elk loom in front of the car at 93 mph would be, as opposed to 60 or 65 You NEVER overdrive your headlights at night. OTOH, if you have HIDs and can see far enough ahead to drive 93 MPH and still stop, then there's no significant increase in risk. An elk can bound out 5 feet in front of your car whether you're going 90 MPH or 30 MPH; if that happens, stopping distance is irrelevant.
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Brian Smith 7 May 2005 08:30:46 [ permanent link ]
	"hubcap" <hubcap@clemson.edu> wrote in message news:d5fscb$5d2$1@hubcap.clemson.edu...> "New" Mini. They're still a blast to drive. From the old school viewpoint, it's hard to think of them as being Minis. Their just too big! {;^) Brian
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Brian Smith 7 May 2005 08:39:19 [ permanent link ]
	"Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message news:427b91a8$0$40403$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> Again I will ask, if the speedometer was broken, could you not drive from > point A to point B safely? The speedometer has NO use during driving, > unless you ramble off onto a tangent about speed limits. How do you measure your speed, or distance travelled? The speedometer is a necessary part of the vehicle, whether you think so or not. What if all speedometers were banned? I'd rather see the fools that disregard the speed limits banned. That would increase safety on our roads, no matter where in the world you (generic you, not you in particular) are located. Would you continue to drive safely for the next million miles without it? >Very Likely. Of course, it just wouldn't be legal to operate without a speedometer. And (although, you seem to have a phobia agaisnt this being mentioned), there would be more people exceeding the speed limit than there are now. This would be due to the fact, that very few people can accurately deduce the speed that they are travelling in a vehicle. I know I'd never miss it. -Dave Well, I would. It helps keep me legal and it also helps me keep my pay straight. Brian
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John 7 May 2005 12:01:20 [ permanent link ]
	Your perception doesn't matter unless you're used to driving in different conditions (meaning different perceptions depending on your excitement level, etc.). Speedometer is not needed for that. It's useful as a testing tool and to make sure you don't go over the speed limit. That's about it. In fact, most race cars don't have speedometers and the drivers go much faster than we do on the streets. John "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:9JadncyISqbW9-bfRVn-gg@sedona.net...> "Ted B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote in message> news:427b61a6$0$34662$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net...> > OK, then enlighten us. What does a speedometer have to do with driving?> > Now answer that question without referring to speed limits, speeding> > tickets or cops in any manner. Good luck. -Dave> > Two years ago I was returning from Phoenix with my family at night. The> freeway was nearly deserted so I had my high beams on and was cruising at mph (the speed limit). When I saw the elk in my lane ahead we were plenty> close, so I braked hard and changed lanes behind her. When I got past, I> accelerated to what I thought was 60 or 65. A moment later I looked at the> speedometer to see I was going 93 mph... the adrenaline had changed my> perception of speed so much it felt slower. Dangerous indeed.> Mike>
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John 7 May 2005 12:09:56 [ permanent link ]
	"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message news:xcIee.27231$0X6.21386@edtnps90...> "John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:FbqdnYJNjNzUcuffRVn-tQ@comcast.com...> > Brian, get on topic. The discussion is concentrated on speedometers and> > their effect on driving.> I'm on topic.> I agree with Bob that you have to know what's going on around you at any> > given time but I don't agree that you need a bunch of gauges to know that.> > Gauges are there to provide feedback as to the vehicle's condition and the surroundings. You have to feel the car and be one with it. That's ultimate goal.> A large part of driving, involves knowing how your vehicle is operating.> Some of those conditions are only readily available through the use of> gauges. Such as coolant temperature, oil pressure, engine speed, battery> condition, charging system condition, etc..> Drive skillfully!> Constantly, through being aware of every aspect of what is happening around> me, that's inside the vehicle and outside, for you novice drivers.> Brian How many accidents have you had?
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Brian Smith 7 May 2005 14:10:15 [ permanent link ]
	"John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ZradnTzLA_I6x-HfRVn-qg@comcast.com...> You probably drive like an old woman. (I know, very stereotypical, but > it's> true. Most people who haven't had any accidents, drive like zombies and if> are ever in a situation that requires reflex/skill will get into one). Now there's an asinine statement.
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Brian Smith 7 May 2005 14:11:36 [ permanent link ]
	"John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:jaKdndqbC_Ftx-HfRVn-pg@comcast.com...> How many accidents have you had? One in 1973. Not that that has anything to do with speedometers. Get on topic. Brian
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John 7 May 2005 14:20:45 [ permanent link ]
	"Bob Ward" <bobward@verizon.net> wrote in message news:9l7n71h1ho7bnlbdigjm3qfrp6cr6jijr9@4ax.com...> On Thu, 5 May 2005 22:53:34 -0700, "John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com>> wrote:> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message> >news:jason-0505050933000001@pm4-broad-33.snlo.dialup.fix.net...> >> In article <427a13ee$0$19385$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>, "Ted> >> B." <noway@nohow.not.ever> wrote:> >> I read about a small BMW car that has> >> > > the speed odometer mounted in the center of the dashboard.> >> > > Is that bad? The driver's eyes should be on the road, not the> >speedometer.> >> > If you even have to look at the speedo, you're improperly trained to> >operate> >> > a vehicle anyway. -Dave> >> LOL--Making use of your logic--the engineers should mount the speedometer> >> on the passenger side or not even install one.> > The only time I ever look at the speedometer is if I'm concerned about speed limit (police officers nearby) or testing something on my machine.> >That's about it.> > A tach is much more useful to me than a speedometer but still shouldn't looked at while driving unless tuning/fixing something.> > Of course, they are only there to convey information that you might need.> If your attention span is that limited, you have no business driving> at all.> You must be a sock puppet - I can't imagine two people coming up with> such idiotic advice independently. Way to go buddy. A+! I'm done with this...
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Michael Pardee 7 May 2005 18:07:10 [ permanent link ]
	"Scott en Aztlбn" <scottenaztlan@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote in message news:d23o71diajdi7j9ppdu12gohkhshm4kj37@4ax.com...> On Fri, 6 May 2005 16:33:18 -0700, "Michael Pardee"> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:> What was dangerous? You didn't know you were doing 93 until you looked >>> at>>> the speedometer. That right there tells me that you were most likely>>> driving in a safe, sane, reasonable manner (even if a bit above the >>> speed>>> limit). When you realized you were doing 93MPH, what is it about that>>> magic number (93MPH) that, all by itself, makes driving dangerous? >>> Again,>>> enlighten us. -Dave>>> Where there is one elk there are more elk, and they all are colored to >>blend>>into the night and are the size of horses. If I had a scare from one using>>the cruise control at 75 mph, what do you suppose the effect of seeing an>>elk loom in front of the car at 93 mph would be, as opposed to 60 or 65> You NEVER overdrive your headlights at night. OTOH, if you have HIDs> and can see far enough ahead to drive 93 MPH and still stop, then> there's no significant increase in risk.> An elk can bound out 5 feet in front of your car whether you're going> 90 MPH or 30 MPH; if that happens, stopping distance is irrelevant.> Elk behave very differently from deer. Deer are so skittish as to be wacky, while elk tend to behave more like cattle. Most of the time they stand in or beside the road and just look at the oncoming car indifferently. Somebody pointed out to me that nearly all car-elk collisions are with cow elk, and it's true; I don't recall seeing a bull elk in the road or being hit by a car. The big problem with elk visibility at night is that they aren't recognizable as anything until they are very close - that great coloration they have. A car or human or rock is visible at easily twice the distance. Only a speedometer could tell you how fast to go to avoid elk. If you rely on your instincts you will go too fast every time - which was also the point in the first place. Now I keep to 60-65 mph, no cruise control, when driving freeways in the pines at night. It feels like a snail's pace but the time difference really isn't significant. Mike
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Jason 7 May 2005 20:02:12 [ permanent link ]
	In article <sv0fe.69398$3V3.19964@edtnps89>, "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote: "John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:jaKdndqbC_Ftx-HfRVn-pg@comcast.com...> > How many accidents have you had?> One in 1973. Not that that has anything to do with speedometers. Get on > topic.> Brian How may speeding tickets have you earned? -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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Brian Smith 7 May 2005 20:59:23 [ permanent link ]
	"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jason-0705050902130001@pm4-broad-39.snlo.dialup.fix.net...> How may speeding tickets have you earned? More on topic. One back in 1972 just after getting my licence (when a speeding ticket cost $12.00) and one in 1974. None since that time I've been obeying the law, my job requires my licence to be unblemished. Brian
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Brian Smith 8 May 2005 03:28:25 [ permanent link ]
	"John" <welcomehowcome@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:UeSdnbd5ja08reDfRVn-3g@comcast.com...> I am, aren't I? Let's hope you don't go over the edge {;^)
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CarGuru > Driving > Re: HONDA ENGINEERS SUCK! 8 May 2005 21:07:40

	see also: 1999 S80 Keyless Entry/Alarm System NASCAR-CUP: Kahne sails to Darlington… '96 850 Flashing UpArrow (again)		pass tests:		see also: PPZ........ Ya v shoke...... lalala:-D

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