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Re: pedestrian-driver incidents
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CarGuru > Driving > Re: pedestrian-driver incidents 11 April 2005 05:00:57

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Re: pedestrian-driver incidents

Tim923 10 April 2005 09:45:06
 The other question that I wanted to add is whether or not a driver has
any legal defense for hitting a pedestrian in a crosswalk on a walk
signal in my situation.
Add comment
Shawn Hearn 10 April 2005 14:58:20 permanent link ]
 In article <27fh51l91s7anlevrm­gndj9cte5goo8o8l@4ax­.com>,
Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote:
The other question that I wanted to add is whether or not a driver has> any legal defense for hitting a pedestrian in a crosswalk on a walk> signal in my situation.

Your grammar needs improvement. Questions end in a question mark. But
yes, a driver sure would have liability if he hits a pedestrian who is
walking in an intersection if the pedestrian has the right of way, and
possibly even if the pedestrian didn't have the right of way.
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John F. Carr 10 April 2005 16:59:10 permanent link ]
 In article <0sbh51d6bu4odith81­sdoeo2jk2vn64j96@4ax­.com>,
Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote:>Since I was already in the crosswalk, I believe the car turning right>into me has to stop. Even if we arrived at the crosswalk at the same>time, I believe a right turner on a green light still has to yield to>the pedestrian.

The vehicle wins a genuine tie, when you both reach the crosswalk
at the same time. That means the bumper reaches the white line as
your foot first touches pavement. Obviously there is no way the
car could stop before entering the crosswalk if it is already there.
There is no requirement for drivers to yield to pedestrians who
are on the curb waiting to cross, and at least in the case of
a midblock crosswalk the law prohibits pedestrians from stepping
close in front of moving vehicles.

Once you are in the crosswalk, and have let vehicles pass which
were too close to stop for you when you entered, you have the
right of way. Although you lose ties when entering the crosswalk,
you win ties in the crosswalk. Drivers must anticipate you moving
forward and stay out of your way. In fact you MUST move forward
if possible because because you only have the right of way while
crossing the street.

In practice, an alert pedestrian will enter the crosswalk in
time to beat turning traffic and have the right of way for the
entire crossing.

--
John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)
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Tim923 10 April 2005 20:16:22 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:58:20 -0400, Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:
In article <27fh51l91s7anlevrm­gndj9cte5goo8o8l@4ax­.com>,>Your grammar needs improvement. Questions end in a question mark.

Sorry.
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Scott en Aztln 10 April 2005 20:34:17 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:24:35 -0400, Tim923 <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here's an incident I was in as the pedestrian (more than once):>
Busy intersection. There's a crosswalk. The walk signal turns white>(all lights are red at this point for a split-second). I get 2-4>steps into crosswalk. After a split-second, the oncoming cars still>have the red, however, cars turning right and left into my lane have>the green.>
Since I was already in the crosswalk, I believe the car turning right>into me has to stop.

True just about everywhere except IL. In IL, cars *speed up and honk*
when a pedestrian is in a crosswalk.
Even if we arrived at the crosswalk at the same>time, I believe a right turner on a green light still has to yield to>the pedestrian.

True in CA for sure, and probably elsewhere.
I was nearly hit by the right turner on green. He must have thought>that since he had a green light and was turning right that he didn't>have to yield to a pedestrian just entering the crosswalk since I>shouldn't have been there. Any comments?

That's yet another example of an incompetent driver who is ignorant of
the law.

--
Sloth Kills!
http://www.geocitie­s.com/slothkills/
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Big Bill 10 April 2005 21:16:08 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:35:43 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
<skipster@teleport.­com> wrote:
"Tim923" <t923_1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:27fh51l91s7an­levrmgndj9cte5goo8o8­l@4ax.com...>> The other question that I wanted to add is whether or not a driver has>> any legal defense for hitting a pedestrian in a crosswalk on a walk>> signal in my situation.>
Once you're in a crosswalk with the light, you have the right of way. The >driver has to yield; it's the law.>
The timer at that intersection is off if you have the signal only a few >seconds. A call to the traffic division of city hall should take care of >that.

I agree with this.
A protected left turn signal should turn the corresponding walk signal
to red. You may have the 'right of way' in the situation you describe,
but the car will do far more damage to you than you will to it.


--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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Tim923 10 April 2005 21:19:32 permanent link ]
 
Your grammar needs improvement. Questions end in a question mark. But >yes, a driver sure would have liability if he hits a pedestrian who is >walking in an intersection if the pedestrian has the right of way, and >possibly even if the pedestrian didn't have the right of way.

This is off topic, but you got me thinking, can't questions be asked
indirectly in the form of a statement

If I had changed the word "question" to "item" above, would that have
been the quick fix?

Examples:

I sort of wanted to know, um, if you wanted to go to the prom with me.

Will you go to the prom with me?

The question is to be or not to be.
Add comment
Tim923 10 April 2005 21:22:23 permanent link ]
 
This is off topic, but you got me thinking, can't questions be asked>indirectly in the form of a statement

oops, deleted the ?
If I had changed the word "question" to "item" above, would that have>been the quick fix?

oops, cropped off my old paragraph

Add comment
Paul 11 April 2005 00:06:26 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:24:35 -0400, Tim923 , said the following in
rec.autos.driving..­.
Here's an incident I was in as the pedestrian (more than once):

<snip>
I was nearly hit by the right turner on green. He must have thought> that since he had a green light and was turning right that he didn't> have to yield to a pedestrian just entering the crosswalk since I> shouldn't have been there. Any comments? Perhaps it is a poorly> designed crosswalk device that doesn't add a few precious moments of> delay to all red lights just to allow the pedestrian an uncontested> jog across the intersection. Comments.

From my interpretation of your situation, I'd say it is a *very* poorly
set up traffic control situation if the light is giving green arrows for
vehicular traffic to turn and cross your crosswalk while giving the walk
signal for pedestrians to enter the intersection - or a flashing don't
walk signal telling people on the curb to stay there and those already in
the intersection to finish crossing. As for who has ROW, if you entered
the intersection before the car arrived there, I'd say you have ROW. If
the car was there first then he has ROW (this assumes the absence of any
signage or laws stating that turning traffic must yield to pedestrians).
I will never walk that intersection again since I've had a few scares.

At least avoid it untill the traffic lights and the pedestrian signs are
timed properly. I'm sure it is only a matter of time before someone in a
situation similar to yours is killed and the governmental entity
responsible for the signals is motivated to do something about it.
Add comment
John F. Carr 11 April 2005 05:00:57 permanent link ]
 In article <MPG.1cc3513fd0dc6a­6a9896d9@newsgroups.­bellsouth.net>,
Paul <kretp@tmy.now> wrote:>From my interpretation of your situation, I'd say it is a *very* poorly >set up traffic control situation if the light is giving green arrows for >vehicular traffic to turn and cross your crosswalk while giving the walk >signal for pedestrians to enter the intersection - or a flashing don't >walk signal telling people on the curb to stay there and those already in >the intersection to finish crossing.

I assumed it was an ordinary two phase signal, with pedestrians
and vehicles going in the same direction being directed to
proceed simultaneously.

The MUTCD specifically prohibits green arrows directing traffic
into conflict with pedestrians who have walk signals.

--
John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)
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CarGuru > Driving > Re: pedestrian-driver incidents 11 April 2005 05:00:57

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