Re: Waiting before going on green Re: On-ramp STOP

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Re: Waiting before going on green Re: On-ramp STOP
Brent P 15 March 2005 02:42:23
	In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:> In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online >>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of >>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car >>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it >>will be red by car 3) > Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner> if you are first in line at the light? For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate 2 second following distance. If that is the case, then a much more effective way would be to PAY> ATTENTION to other traffic in the intersection while you are waiting.> When the previous phase of traffic gets a yellow, a look around should> show whether there is anyone likely to run the red light and pose a> hazard to you if you go immediately on green. Usually, there isn't,> so you can go immediately on green without excess risk. Only if there> is someone who looks like s/he will run the red light would you hesitate> to avoid getting hit. Of course, but they don't teach paying attention or other real safety skills and methods.
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Cartlon Shew 15 March 2005 03:38:50 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:42:23 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:>> In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,>> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>>>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online >>>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of >>>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car >>>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it >>>will be red by car 3) >> Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner>> if you are first in line at the light?> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate 2 >second following distance. > It's probably the same logic that made them put a stop sign (not a light) on an entrace to I-17 that has been under construction off and on for over 2 years now. (They just can't seem to be satisfied each time they finish construction). In addition to the stop sign is another sign that says to wait 3 seconds before proceeding. I presume that potholes torn into the pavement (that didn't exist before this latest round of construction) were placed there intentionally to act as speed bumps.
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Daniel W. Rouse Jr. 15 March 2005 09:22:42 [ permanent link ]
	"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Wf2dnd5FBcvSjqvfRVn-rg@comcast.com...> In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:> > In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,> > Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:> >>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online> >>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of> >>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car> >>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it> >>will be red by car 3)> > Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner> > if you are first in line at the light?> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate second following distance. That's a good start... although the more recent versions of the California DMV Driver handbook now recommend 3 seconds following distance. Gradual acceleration also helps if someone doesn't want to actually remain stopped for 2 (or 3 seconds), such as not exceeding 2500 rpm in each gear (which is effortless in an automatic transmission) and not closing in rapidly on the rear bumper of the car in front. So, other than impatience and/or a stick-shift driver who simply doesn't want to have to downshift as much--there doesn't seem to be any logical reason why a 2 (or 3) second minimum following distance shouldn't be the norm on surface streets as well as the highways and interstates. [snip...]
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Brent P 15 March 2005 11:32:00 [ permanent link ]
	In article <1110864246.413729@news-1.nethere.net>, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:Wf2dnd5FBcvSjqvfRVn-rg@comcast.com...>> In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:>> > In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,>> > Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>> >>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than> the online>> >>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car> in front of>> >>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2> seconds, car>> >>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth> acceleration, it>> >>will be red by car 3)>> > Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner>> > if you are first in line at the light?>> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate> 2>> second following distance.> That's a good start... although the more recent versions of the California> DMV Driver handbook now recommend 3 seconds following distance. Are you nuts? traffic jams are bad enough not to be killing intersection throughput with 2 second delays. In germany when the light goes green everyone starts moving, that's the way it should be. This is how you move a lot of traffic without having every road being 8 lanes wide. Gradual acceleration also helps if someone doesn't want to actually remain> stopped for 2 (or 3 seconds), such as not exceeding 2500 rpm in each gear> (which is effortless in an automatic transmission) and not closing in> rapidly on the rear bumper of the car in front. So you like sloth. (btw some cars, like mine move quite well shifting around that RPM) Sloth movement at intersections reduces throughput and causes congestion. So, other than impatience and/or a stick-shift driver who simply doesn't> want to have to downshift as much The problem is the automatic transmission that encourages lazy, thoughtless driving. --there doesn't seem to be any logical> reason why a 2 (or 3) second minimum following distance shouldn't be the> norm on surface streets as well as the highways and interstates. CONGESTION. Get your following distance once you are through the intersection, don't reduce the throughput. Otherwise one intersection ends up backing up into the next. this is simple.
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Big Bill 15 March 2005 18:18:43 [ permanent link ]
	On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:38:50 -0700, Cartlon Shew <cashew@lapaz.com> wrote: On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:42:23 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com>(Brent P) wrote:> In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:>>> In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,>>> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>>>>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online >>>>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of >>>>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car >>>>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it >>>>will be red by car 3) >>> Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner>>> if you are first in line at the light?>> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate 2 >>second following distance. >> It's probably the same logic that made them put a stop sign (not a>light) on an entrace to I-17 that has been under construction off and>on for over 2 years now. (They just can't seem to be satisfied each>time they finish construction).> In addition to the stop sign is another sign that says to wait 3>seconds before proceeding. I presume that potholes torn into the>pavement (that didn't exist before this latest round of construction)>were placed there intentionally to act as speed bumps. I think that 3-second wait is to spread the on-ramp traffic out, so a solid slug of cars doesn't try to merge all at once. During heavy traffic times, there's hardly room for one car to merge, much less 7 or 8 all at once. -- Bill Funk Change "g" to "a"
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Cartlon Shew 15 March 2005 19:35:21 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:18:43 -0700, Big Bill <bill@pipping.com> wrote: On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:38:50 -0700, Cartlon Shew <cashew@lapaz.com>>wrote:> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:42:23 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com>>(Brent P) wrote:>> In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:>>>> In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,>>>> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>>>>>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online >>>>>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of >>>>>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car >>>>>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it >>>>>will be red by car 3) >>>> Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner>>>> if you are first in line at the light?>>> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate 2 >>>second following distance. >>> It's probably the same logic that made them put a stop sign (not a>>light) on an entrace to I-17 that has been under construction off and>>on for over 2 years now. (They just can't seem to be satisfied each>>time they finish construction).>> In addition to the stop sign is another sign that says to wait 3>>seconds before proceeding. I presume that potholes torn into the>>pavement (that didn't exist before this latest round of construction)>>were placed there intentionally to act as speed bumps.> I think that 3-second wait is to spread the on-ramp traffic out, so a>solid slug of cars doesn't try to merge all at once.>During heavy traffic times, there's hardly room for one car to merge,>much less 7 or 8 all at once. Nonsense - During heavy traffic times, traffic is moving at about 20 mph. But since this is a stop SIGN, everyone is expected to stop for a full 3 seconds even though there are only a few cars moving along at 70 mph (in a 55 - or maybe 65, I don't exactly recall where the limit changes)
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Big Bill 15 March 2005 21:32:54 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:35:21 -0700, Cartlon Shew <cashew@lapaz.com> wrote: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:18:43 -0700, Big Bill <bill@pipping.com> wrote:> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:38:50 -0700, Cartlon Shew <cashew@lapaz.com>>>wrote:>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:42:23 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com>>>(Brent P) wrote:>>> In article <d150u2$bll$1@bolt.sonic.net>, Timothy J. Lee wrote:>>>>> In article <kOidnTAgx5xppKjfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,>>>>> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:>>>>>>Holy crap, they are actually teaching people this. This is worse than the online >>>>>>traffic school that says each driver should wait 2 seconds after the car in front of >>>>>>them starts moving once the light turns green. (2 seconds, car 1 goes, 2 seconds, car >>>>>>2 goes, 2 seconds, car 3 goes.... and given most lights and sloth acceleration, it >>>>>>will be red by car 3) >>>>> Was the claimed reason to avoid getting speared by a red light runner>>>>> if you are first in line at the light?>>>> For the first vehicle yes, for all the others, it was to have an immidate 2 >>>>second following distance. >>>> It's probably the same logic that made them put a stop sign (not a>>>light) on an entrace to I-17 that has been under construction off and>>>on for over 2 years now. (They just can't seem to be satisfied each>>>time they finish construction).>>> In addition to the stop sign is another sign that says to wait 3>>>seconds before proceeding. I presume that potholes torn into the>>>pavement (that didn't exist before this latest round of construction)>>>were placed there intentionally to act as speed bumps.>> I think that 3-second wait is to spread the on-ramp traffic out, so a>>solid slug of cars doesn't try to merge all at once.>>During heavy traffic times, there's hardly room for one car to merge,>>much less 7 or 8 all at once.> Nonsense - During heavy traffic times, traffic is moving at about 20>mph. > But since this is a stop SIGN, everyone is expected to stop for a full>3 seconds even though there are only a few cars moving along at 70 mph>(in a 55 - or maybe 65, I don't exactly recall where the limit>changes) The limit changes at Peoria, IIRC. WHat I was speaking of is when thraffic is moving at 65-70, and there's about 30 feet between cars, and many follow the line advised here - don't let 'em in. I've seen it, and it's not pretty. -- Bill Funk Change "g" to "a"
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Arif Khokar 16 March 2005 04:16:53 [ permanent link ]
	Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote: Gradual acceleration also helps if someone doesn't want to actually remain> stopped for 2 (or 3 seconds), such as not exceeding 2500 rpm in each gear> (which is effortless in an automatic transmission) and not closing in> rapidly on the rear bumper of the car in front. The way I do it is to gradually increase following distance as the speed increases. IOW, I match their acceleration when going less than 20 mph and decrease my acceleration to establish following distance. IMO, whoever suggested waiting 3 seconds before starting after the car ahead of you has gone through the intersection is a moron. So, other than impatience and/or a stick-shift driver who simply doesn't> want to have to downshift as much You obviously don't drive a stickshift. Most drivers will upshift while accelerating.
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Re: Waiting before going on green Re: On-ramp STOP

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