From our morning paper:>

http://www.mlive.co­m/news/grpress/index­.ssf?/base/news-0/11­0699737092951.xml>

Note especially:>

"First of all, for anyone still piloting a rear-wheel drive vehicle -- > GET OFF THE ROAD! There, I said it. In this age of front-wheel, all-wheel > and four-wheel drive, you are nothing more than an obstacle, a > fish-tailing hazard for the rest of us to dodge. All we can hope is that > you don't bounce off us as you pirouette into the median. My advice is to > call in sick and leave that automotive relic in the garage until the sun > comes out in April. Or drive to work in reverse.">

Perce

From our morning paper:>

Note especially:>

"First of all, for anyone still piloting a rear-wheel drive vehicle --> GET OFF THE ROAD! There, I said it. In this age of front-wheel,> all-wheel and four-wheel drive, you are nothing more than an obstacle, a> fish-tailing hazard for the rest of us to dodge. All we can hope is that> you don't bounce off us as you pirouette into the median. My advice is> to call in sick and leave that automotive relic in the garage until the> sun comes out in April. Or drive to work in reverse."

And talk about "a car lackadaisically aimed by a clueless, ignorant,> self-distracted idiot",

From our morning paper:>

http://www.mlive.co­m/news/grpress/index­.ssf?/base/news-0/11­0699737092951.xml>

Note especially:>

"First of all, for anyone still piloting a rear-wheel drive vehicle -- > GET OFF THE ROAD! There, I said it. In this age of front-wheel, all-wheel > and four-wheel drive, you are nothing more than an obstacle, a > fish-tailing hazard for the rest of us to dodge. All we can hope is that > you don't bounce off us as you pirouette into the median. My advice is to > call in sick and leave that automotive relic in the garage until the sun > comes out in April. Or drive to work in reverse.">

Perce

Blah, blah, blahbitty blah blah.>

A well-implemented RWD car is better than a poorly-implemented>­ FWD car, and there are plenty of both types.

it's not front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive, it's Weight over drive> wheels

perfect world = mid enigine all wheel drive with good tires selected for the> conditions / terrain.

KaWallski wrote:>

Enough weight on the drive wheels is important. But only if we're> talking about pickup trucks. When it comes to cars, the weight> balance difference is marginal between FWD and RWD.>

It's more efficient (effective) for the front wheels on a FWD car to> _pull_ a car through snow vs the back wheels on a RWD to _push_ a car> through snow.

Even rabid RWD proponents admit FWD has the advantage in snow:>

http://slate.msn.co­m/id/2081194/#Contin­ueArticle>

"In snow, FWD cars have a third advantage in that they pull the car> through the path the front tires create, instead of turning the front> tires into mini-snowplows.">

Also:>

http://chrysler.jbc­arpages.com/300/2005­/>

"One of the advantages of front-wheel drive is traction in snow, but> that too has been erased over the years.">

Driving and cornering on hard-packed or ankle-deep snow is one thing.> Getting yourself through a snow drift at the end of the drivway is> another (and that's what I'm talking about).>

Here:>

http://www.rearwhee­ldrive.org/rwd/rwdqu­iz.htm>

We see that the quiz questions are stacked in favor of RWD. Note the> absence of a FWD choice in question 1. The authors say in several> places that the extra weight of AWD is a liability, yet propose adding> bags of sand to a RWD car to improve acceleration in snow (question> 6). In question 5, they say RWD is better than FWD for cornering in> slipper conditions (because for FWD the front tires must both> accelerate and steer). They don't explain why you'd want to be> accelerating in a turn on a slippery road. They don't ask which type> of drivetrain is better for driving through deep snow at low speeds.>

If you hold the view that FWD does not have a slam-dunk advantage over> RWD on snow-covered roads, then I'd like you to find a web site, a> posting, or editorial where the author holds a similar view. I> haven't seen any.>

A lot is written about the pro's and con's of FWD and RWD during> winter driving. Much of that is focused on cornering and handling,> and some straight-line acceleration from a standing start. All of> that verbiage is wasted space because the overwhelming majority of> people do not treat winter driving like an alpine auto-cross.>

The condition that practically everyone in a winter climate will face> is the occasional need to move the car forward from A to B in deep> snow under very low speeds. By deep snow I'm talking about 6 inches> (on a grade) or more (on flat terrain, parking lot, the end of your> driveway, etc). Other than the first reference (above) I haven't come> across any other reference where the concept of FWD pulling a car> through the snow exists or is different than RWD pushing the front> through the snow. But conceptually, I stand by the concept that the> front tires are snow plows for a RWD car trying to push a car through> snow.

Yes all very good points, but again I say that the "Optimum" is mid engine> with all-wheeldrive, 25% weight at each of the four corners. The closer ANY> vehicle comes to this equalized formula the better.>

A front wheel drive car with 80/20 weight distribution may get you out of> snow due to weight over the driving wheels but it will be a lot harder to> maintain safe control of than a vehicle with 50/50 distribution - regardless> of road conditions.>

Almost if not more important than getting "unstuck" is to be able to handle> the vehicle in a varity of conditions, cornering, braking, accleration,> emergency stops etc. The closer to 50/50 the more predictable a car will be,> in all situations.>

The single flaw in FF vehicles is you are asking the same 2 tires to perform> all cornering, acceleration and the majoirity of braking duties.>

If you can by any means get more of the tires to perform a more shared> responsibility the your vehicle's actions you will be better at getting> unstuck and staying unstuck.>

One last point, if you had a Front wheel drive REAR engine car - would you> still say that front wheel drive is better?

Well thank goodness he was just using a mobile phone and not the

Just about every Mercedes> All BMW's> All Ferrari's> All Maserati's (hell, lets just say all Italian sports cars)> Pontiac GTO (2004 - onward) (Had to fit Holden in there somewhere)> etc etc etc

You would drive a Ferrari in winter?

I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose>front-wheel traction. In FWD and in RWD.

I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose front-wheel> traction. In FWD and in RWD.

But with superb winter tires, traction control and a skilled driver,> rear wheel drive can get the job done.

This should start another argum . . . Oops! I mean "promote a full and > frank exchange of views.">

From our morning paper:>

http://www.mlive.co­m/news/grpress/index­.ssf?/base/news-0/11­0699737092951.xml >

Note especially:>

"First of all, for anyone still piloting a rear-wheel drive vehicle -- > GET OFF THE ROAD! There, I said it. In this age of front-wheel, > all-wheel and four-wheel drive, you are nothing more than an obstacle, a > fish-tailing hazard for the rest of us to dodge.

In snow, the RWD car is operating at a disadvantage, and snow tires> will only do so much - never enough to match the capability of a FWD.>

Good effin' luck. The best you'll do is a useless feel-good law against> using a *hand-held* celphone while driving -- not even a half-decent> compromise, 'cause it's known and robustly shown that the distraction is> from the phone conversation, not the hold-in-the-hand phoneset.

I have, however, seen ice so slick that the rear tires will spin lazily > (in an automatic) while a car is waiting stopped at a light. So it > might be possible for the front wheels to drag a little when starting > off. Of course that falls under the category of "probably should have > stayed home today..."

You would drive a Ferrari in winter?>

How would the phone conversation differ from merely conversing with> someone in your vehicle, unless the handset had something to do with it?

Listen to a police scanner some time. Notice how almost all transmissions> are a matter of seconds? Notice how almost all cell phone uses are a> matter of minutes?? See any difference?

"The earlier study also found there was no impairment of drivers who> either conversed with a passenger or who listened to the radio or to> books on tape.">

And it makes it with no analysis or reasoning whatsoever.

In other words: 1. No, you have not read the report

Most commonly the car 'spinning out' as you describe is a result of using> too much throttle through a turn on wet pavement, and breaking loose the> rear tire(s).

Sometimes it can also happen if you lift up on the throttle suddenly, as >most people tend to do if they start skidding. It helps with FWD, but >doesn't work as well with RWD.

Just checking back in with you, didn't want to leave you hanging.>

The NSC report is only available for purchase online, so I guess you >either subscribe to Injury Insights and read the Feb/March 2003 issue, >or were interested enough to purchase the study, so I applaud your >diligence in this important matter. I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't lie >about reading the study, or your claim that there was an analysis of >cell vs passenger conversation.>

There were plenty of other studies and articles available through a >quick search, like the one below, that shows that in car conversation is >the leading cause of driver distraction, contrary to the ridiculous and >possibly fabricated statement in the article you provided "...there was >no impairment of drivers who either conversed with a passenger or who >listened to the radio or to books on tape.". No impairment, that's a >pretty bold statement.

I kinda wish I didn't sell the Calais. It was a nice daily driver. It was> comfy, pretty gutless though the 5 speed made it tolerable. I bought it> for $250 and was gonna keep it but a friend of mine got into an accident> and totaled his car. He was practically begging me to sell him my Calais> so I gave it to him for $100.

I didn't know the drug dealers' car was so cheap these days. The wing on > my> Corolla is much more expensive.

"Usual Suspect" <same@as.reply-to.a­ddress> wrote in message> news:2163524.7ZB6G9­8G4f@yahoo.com...>> Cory Dunkle wrote:>>

Twelve days late, and a non-sequiter at that.