What's up with FIRST?

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CarGuru > Open discussion > What's up with FIRST? 28 March 2005 22:55:40

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What's up with FIRST?
Ymenard 15 March 2005 06:18:34
	Nice way to care about your potential customers. (Tim.s TPTCC physics, GN1970 physics, etc..) What's next? -- -- Franзois Mйnard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...
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Steve Whitty 15 March 2005 07:54:14 [ permanent link ]
	"ymenard" <francois-menard@sympatico.ca> wrote in message> Nice way to care about your potential customers.> (Tim.s TPTCC physics, GN1970 physics, etc..) What's next?> FIR$T is targetting any mods that modifiy, or in their words, hack, the exe. so if a mod developer hasn't recieved a Cease and Desist email by now, you can bet your last dollar they will soon. Steve
		Add comment


Asgeir Nesoen 16 March 2005 19:13:03 [ permanent link ]
	So, the cure is, for the dedicated modder, to go underground, make a "physics patch", and distribute it alongside the distribution of cars, sounds, tracks etc etc. No problem, in other words. Just a bit more work for us end-users... ---Asgeir--- Steve Whitty wrote:> "ymenard" <francois-menard@sympatico.ca> wrote in message> Nice way to care about your potential customers.>> (Tim.s TPTCC physics, GN1970 physics, etc..) What's next?>> FIR$T is targetting any mods that modifiy, or in their words, hack, the > exe. so if a mod developer hasn't recieved a Cease and Desist email by now, > you can bet your last dollar they will soon.> Steve >
		Add comment


David G Fisher 18 March 2005 01:45:47 [ permanent link ]
	"Tony Rickard" <tony.rickardno@spamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:Mwk_d.5990$QN1.1328@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Therefore, I can only conclude the concern is with the NR2003 code being> independently developed to something better than F1RST can produce impacting> on sales in the future, which rather smacks of a lack of confidence doesn't> it?> Cheers> Tony It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not going to have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a disappointment to me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the old engine is not going to do it anymore. -- David G Fisher
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Ymenard 18 March 2005 06:24:24 [ permanent link ]
	"David G Fisher" <davegf@home.com> wrote> It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not going to> have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a disappointment > to> me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the old> engine is not going to do it anymore. They didn't buy the rights to the old code only for nostalgia you know... The Papy game engine is still a pretty tough piece of coding, on many aspects. -- -- Franзois Mйnard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...
		Add comment


The Davisons 18 March 2005 18:51:42 [ permanent link ]
	David G Fisher wrote: It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not going to> have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a disappointment to> me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the engine is not going to do it anymore. But a rehash of an old engine is what (the superb) rFactor is I reckon there's plenty life in the old dog yet. I maintain that the issue is one of licensing. Let's say exe modding was allowed to go on. In future I might have 2 choices: Option 1: Free N2003 mod that simulates (fudges?) Ferraris or Porsches by a bunch of talented and well meaning people who pay nothing to the marques. Option 2: "pay-for" product that accurately recreates the feel of driving car A (looks a bit like a Porsche) and car B (looks kind of like a Ferrari). Quality of the subtleties and nuances has little to do with it - people want to pretend to drive real cars. Does Kaemer make anything off sales of N2003 now?
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Byron Forbes 19 March 2005 19:03:09 [ permanent link ]
	"ymenard" <francois-menard@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:mZq_d.68790$Jd2.1299804@news20.bellglobal.com...> >"David G Fisher" <davegf@home.com> wrote>> It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not going >> to>> have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a disappointment >> to>> me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the old>> engine is not going to do it anymore.> They didn't buy the rights to the old code only for nostalgia you know... > The Papy game engine is still a pretty tough piece of coding, on many > aspects.> Yep. All it needs is weather added and a dedicated road racing overhaul (setups and general physics) and everyone immediately forgets anything NR2003 related. Then I'd like a version of F1 that is based on what F1 could be in 2005 if cost and safety were of no concern ie as fast as 2005 human technology could make them go Dream on!
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Byron Forbes 19 March 2005 19:20:18 [ permanent link ]
	<the.davisons@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:1111157502.290766.312990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...> David G Fisher wrote:> It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not> going to>> have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a> disappointment to>> me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the> old>> engine is not going to do it anymore.> But a rehash of an old engine is what (the superb) rFactor is > I reckon there's plenty life in the old dog yet.> I maintain that the issue is one of licensing.> Let's say exe modding was allowed to go on. In future I might have 2> choices:> Option 1: Free N2003 mod that simulates (fudges?) Ferraris or Porsches> by a bunch of talented and well meaning people who pay nothing to the> marques.> Option 2: "pay-for" product that accurately recreates the feel of> driving car A (looks a bit like a Porsche) and car B (looks kind of> like a Ferrari).> Quality of the subtleties and nuances has little to do with it - people> want to pretend to drive real cars.> Does Kaemer make anything off sales of N2003 now?> I think the whole thing is a load of crap. After being out on the cyber track for 10 mins or so, no one gives a stuff about the shape of the car, badges and paintjobs - physics engine and game polish are everything. For me this is simple - Dave Ks concern over this means we can have little confidence that FIRST will be blowing up anyones skirt anytime soon.
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Joachim Trensz 20 March 2005 19:15:49 [ permanent link ]
	David G Fisher wrote: ...> It gives the impression that what they are coming out with is not going to> have an all new look (graphics) and feel. That would be a disappointment to> me, especially when it's going up against rFactor. A rehash of the old> engine is not going to do it anymore. I'm saying the following after making it clear that this is what I _think_ is true, but I may be wrong and have misunderstood these issues. So the following may be entirely incorrect. That said, here goes... I think I remember that in European trademark law, if the owner of a trademark doesn't defend his trademark if someone wants to use it or a very similar, this might cause him to lose the rights to that trademark, What if something similar is the case with copyrights laws in the US or in another market FIRST is targetting? I.e., what if, if Kaemmer wouldn't defend his copyrights now but wished to do so later, a lawyer might take this failure on Kaemmer's part to attempt to protect his copyright as an implicit waiving of his copyright, even though this was never intended? Correct me if I'm wrong (but only do so if you really know better, not just because it sounds unbelievable). Also, Papy purchased licences for N2003. I think in such deals, the licensee might sometimes be required to prevent the mis-use of that licence through his product. I.e., the conditions of such a licence contract might force Kaemmer to take action, simply to avoid that someone else takes action against him. I probably should have just shut up, but if the above is true, i.e. if I haven't misunderstood this, it would makes Kaemmers actions quite understandable, wouldn't it. Achim
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Jykkejee 21 March 2005 17:48:26 [ permanent link ]
	"Joachim Trensz" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:3a5i6qF68g4giU1@individual.net... I think I remember that in European trademark law, if the owner of a trademark> doesn't defend his trademark if someone wants to use it or a very similar, this> might cause him to lose the rights to that trademark,> What if something similar is the case with copyrights laws in the US or in> another market FIRST is targetting?> I.e., what if, if Kaemmer wouldn't defend his copyrights now but wished to do so> later, a lawyer might take this failure on Kaemmer's part to attempt to protect> his copyright as an implicit waiving of his copyright, even though this never intended? It is certainly true that also according to the US _trademark_ law you can lose your trademark if you don't defend it. However, with a quick search I cannot find any mention of this being the case with copyrights. Actually someone has apparently studied the issue and on page http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00916a says he cannot find evidence of the need to defend a copyright in order not to lose it. The issues mentioned in Kaemmers open letter are mostly about copyrights. If we think about the GTP mod there could be trademark issues with the car manufacturers if original names were used. But I don't think any contract regarding Nascar 2003 could force First to defend those trademarks since the car makes are different from Nascar 2003. It's up to the manufacturers to protect their trademarks. As for the copyright issues, First has, of course, full right to protect their copyrights even if they are not in the risk of losing them. If you try to look at it from a non-lawyer perspective I think it's a fine line between sensibly protecting your rights and overprotecting them. It's anybody's guess which side we are on now. It's perhaps a question of what could be the damage to First Racing caused by mods such as the GTP mod. The answer to that question, I think, depends on whether First Racing is planning to introduce a really new product or just a mod of Nascar 2003.
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Joachim Trensz 28 March 2005 22:55:40 [ permanent link ]
	jykkejee wrote: ...> It is certainly true that also according to the US _trademark_ law you can> lose your trademark if you don't defend it... Thanks for the info. Just got back from Egypt, hence the delay. Anyway, I'm glad we got GTP now. It's great fun! Achim
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CarGuru > Open discussion > What's up with FIRST? 28 March 2005 22:55:40

	see also: Re: How to enable a clutch in NFS… NetKar Pro patch out Re: NR2K3 League looking for drivers!		pass tests:		see also: Bad odor in 2002 Explorer I purchased a 2003 325i but it did... smoke in cabin

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