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CarGuru > Open discussion > Save MG Rover 27 April 2005 14:04:43

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Save MG Rover

Save MG Rover 27 April 2005 14:04:43
 FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE
INVESTMENT

MG Rover, Britain's last volume car/automobile manufacturer was forced into
Administration on 8 April 2005. As a philanthropic
organisation dedicated to the survival of the MG and Rover marquees, Save
MGR would like to take this opportunity to invite
"pledge investors" to pledge their potential investment in respect of the
possible acquisition of MG Rover or constituent parts
(ie. MG/Rover/both marquees).

NO CASH IS REQUIRED AT THIS TIME

The goal of Save MGR is to establish a solid level of interest - which would
allow the preparation of a formal structure, stakes
in which would be available for purchase by pledge investors. By pledging
your investment you are not only helping to secure
the future of two iconic marquees, but also writing motoring, commercial and
Internet history.

www.savemgr.org.uk

Many thanks for your time - keep MG Rover rolling!

Save MGR


Add comment
Save MG Rover 11 April 2005 01:33:13 permanent link ]
 FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE
INVESTMENT

MG Rover, Britain's last volume car/automobile manufacturer was forced into
Administration on 8 April 2005. As a philanthropic
organisation dedicated to the survival of the MG and Rover marquees, Save
MGR would like to take this opportunity to invite
"pledge investors" to pledge their potential investment in respect of the
possible acquisition of MG Rover or constituent parts
(ie. MG/Rover/both marquees).

NO CASH IS REQUIRED AT THIS TIME

The goal of Save MGR is to establish a solid level of interest - which would
allow the preparation of a formal structure, stakes
in which would be available for purchase by pledge investors. By pledging
your investment you are not only helping to secure
the future of two iconic marquees, but also writing motoring, commercial and
Internet history.

www.savemgr.org.uk

Many thanks for your time - keep MG Rover rolling!

Save MGR


Add comment
Donny 11 April 2005 02:52:37 permanent link ]
 
"Save MG Rover" <newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote in message
news:42599b95$1_4@a­lt.athenanews.com...­> FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE > INVESTMENT

Why?
Both the first MG and Rover were crap cars run by shoddy businessmen

When it became MG Rover it was even more so, phoenix was just another bunch
of losers!

Let it die, I won't say gracefully, because it should have put to rest years
ago.

Their only downfall was it just made cheap crap.


Add comment
Michael Kilpatrick 11 April 2005 15:32:09 permanent link ]
 Donny wrote:
"Save MG Rover" <newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote in message > news:42599b95$1_4@a­lt.athenanews.com...­>
FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE >>INVESTMENT>
Why?> Both the first MG and Rover were crap cars run by shoddy businessmen>
When it became MG Rover it was even more so, phoenix was just another bunch > of losers!>
Let it die, I won't say gracefully, because it should have put to rest years > ago.


Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth
investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the
Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some sections
of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s. The fact is that
this is not the 1970s. The Rover 75 was the Car of the Year when it was
launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than the Jaguar
S-type. The MG models are extremely popular sports cars.

So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are
stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity.
I know which I believe.

Unfortunately nobody has been sufficiently able to kick the British
public's views into shape. Rover's advertising has been pathetic, for a
start.

Michael

Add comment
Andy Dingley 11 April 2005 15:52:38 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:52:37 +0000 (UTC), "Donny" <dono@miuo.org.uk>
wrote:
phoenix was just another bunch >of losers!

Phoenix were a bunch of shysters and definitely winners. Rover lost
out, but Phoenix themelves lined their pockets _very_ nicely (look at
the old training centre and waht that's now worth as an independent
business).

Saving Rover is going to need a time machine. It died a few years ago
when Phoenix did the final asset stripping on it.

--
Smert' spamionam
Add comment
Tim Hobbs 11 April 2005 17:14:25 permanent link ]
 
Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth >investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the >Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some sections >of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s. The fact is that >this is not the 1970s.

BMW wanted a small car and a 4x4. They took the technology from Land
Rover for the X5 (HDC being the most obvious) and the brand from Mini.
Then they sold the rest for ВЈ10 as it wasn't worth having.
The Rover 75 was the Car of the Year when it was >launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than the Jaguar >S-type.

6 years ago. Where is the replacement? It's old - hardly worth
buying a company for.

SAIC were interested, and then they saw the numbers. They may revive
a deal, but only because administration has cut the liabilities
somewhat. However you slice it, the current business is losing money
and sales are in freefall. The assets were always the only thing
worth having - Alchemy were honest about their plans for asset
stripping and downsizing, so they didn't get the deal. Phoenix talked
a bigger game and quietly pulled the house down.

On the other hand, Phoenix gave people jobs for a few more years than
they would have had them under Alchemy.
So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are >stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity. >I know which I believe.

Neither. The public are staying away in droves from old outdated
products. The MG brand means nothing to anyone under 40 - to me in my
mid-thirties it reminds me of the MG Maestro and the MG Metro. Hardly
sportscar icons.

MG sales are a little better than for Rover, but are they profitable?
I have a lease offer on my desk of a brand-new MGF for ВЈ159 / month -
heaps less than for an MX5. Is that making money or shifting stock?
With a new MX5 about to appear the game is about to move up a notch,
and with the recent events would YOU buy a new MG/Rover?
Unfortunately nobody has been sufficiently able to kick the British >public's views into shape. Rover's advertising has been pathetic, for a >start.

Much is made of German and French patriotism in buying their
home-grown products. If I was German I'd be happy to choose between
BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Volkswagen. In the UK we can choose between
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Land Rover, Ford etc etc and still support UK
workforces. And largely we do. Rover haven't invested in the right
new models, probably because they couldn't, so haven't been in the
game.

Nobody will take pleasure from seeing massive job losses at Longbridge
and the rest of the supply chain, but it's a fundamentally sick
business making second-rate products in a flooded market. I'd rather
see tax money put at regenerating the area with new businesses and
skills than thrown into an ever deepening pit.
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii­.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-s­ystems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill­.com
Add comment
Michael Kilpatrick 11 April 2005 17:36:51 permanent link ]
 Tim Hobbs wrote:
The Rover 75 was the Car of the Year when it was >>launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than the Jaguar >>S-type.>
6 years ago. Where is the replacement? It's old - hardly worth> buying a company for.


That's a complete fallacy. A lot of companies produce cars that are in
truth just as old as that. A bit of new styling here, new components
there. Most models around today are based on earlier models, and the
companies are more than keen to use the same name for the revised model.
Of all the varieties of cars that you yourself have never actually
owned, how much do you *actually* know about what lies underneath the
surface of the "latest model"?
On the other hand, Phoenix gave people jobs for a few more years than> they would have had them under Alchemy.

In hindsight it might have been better if Alchemy had kept fewer people
in jobs for a longer period of time, rather than the other way round. A
lot of people were eager to daemonise them as asset-strippers at the
time, but who turned out to the real devils?

So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are >>stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity. >>I know which I believe.>
Neither. The public are staying away in droves from old outdated> products. The MG brand means nothing to anyone under 40 - to me in my

That's utter nonsense. MGs are very popular, especially with women. And
those under 40, too. The comparisons between the R75 and the S-type are
perfectly just.

mid-thirties it reminds me of the MG Maestro and the MG Metro. Hardly> sportscar icons.

My God, why is it that you insist on assuming that because MG-Rover
produced the Maestro, any other new MG *must* be equally bad? And yet no
such assumption (from I judge of the opinions I hear) is ever applied to
any other brand from any other country!

Much is made of German and French patriotism in buying their> home-grown products. If I was German I'd be happy to choose between> BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Volkswagen. In the UK we can choose between> Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Land Rover, Ford etc etc and still support UK> workforces.

It's not just about workforces, it's about engineering and design too.
You should have watched James Dyson's Dimbleby lecture last year, for
example. It's of vital strategic importance that design and engineering
leadership and skills are retained. After all, when the Chinese take
over the world economy in a few decades' time, how are you going to feel
if we depend on them for all our technology and design? It isn't just
about having a job on a production line. It's also about being in
control of those who designs the products. To put one aspect of the
problem in rather simplistic tersm as an example, do you think the
Chinese designers will care as much about the needs and desires of 50
million Britons when they have 1 billion of their own customers to keep
happy? Do you want a drive a car designed for a 6ft British male and
British roads, or a 5ft6 Chinese male and Chinese roads?

Michael

Add comment
Tim Hobbs 11 April 2005 18:34:17 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:36:51 +0100, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:
Tim Hobbs wrote:>
The Rover 75 was the Car of the Year when it was >>>launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than the Jaguar >>>S-type.>>
6 years ago. Where is the replacement? It's old - hardly worth>> buying a company for.>
That's a complete fallacy. A lot of companies produce cars that are in >truth just as old as that. A bit of new styling here, new components >there. Most models around today are based on earlier models, and the >companies are more than keen to use the same name for the revised model. >Of all the varieties of cars that you yourself have never actually >owned, how much do you *actually* know about what lies underneath the >surface of the "latest model"?

Yes, lots of it is derivative, but a good deal isn't. My main point
was that the future value of the 75 is as much about the development
pipeline as the current model. I don't know what, if anything, is in
the design pipeline at MG Rover. Based on industry standards the next
model ought to be about signed off by now.
On the other hand, Phoenix gave people jobs for a few more years than>> they would have had them under Alchemy.>
In hindsight it might have been better if Alchemy had kept fewer people >in jobs for a longer period of time, rather than the other way round. A >lot of people were eager to daemonise them as asset-strippers at the >time, but who turned out to the real devils?

I agree entirely; although I would say that too much is made about the
ВЈ10 price - there weren't many other people in the queue at the time.
So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are >>>stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity. >>>I know which I believe.>>
Neither. The public are staying away in droves from old outdated>> products. The MG brand means nothing to anyone under 40 - to me in my>
That's utter nonsense. MGs are very popular, especially with women. And >those under 40, too. The comparisons between the R75 and the S-type are >perfectly just.>

I don't doubt that they are selling, but how many people buying MG's
are doing so because of this wonderful heritage. I know about the
glorious history because I'm quite interested in classic cars, but
most of my contemporaries are more driven by fashion, performance
sheets and magazine reviews. So I doubt the real value of 'the brand'
and suspect they would sell almost as well if they were called Kia.
mid-thirties it reminds me of the MG Maestro and the MG Metro. Hardly>> sportscar icons.>
My God, why is it that you insist on assuming that because MG-Rover >produced the Maestro, any other new MG *must* be equally bad? And yet no >such assumption (from I judge of the opinions I hear) is ever applied to >any other brand from any other country!

I don't. I'm just commenting on the 'brand value' in marketing terms.
I actually quite like some of the more recent models, particularly the
MGF. But, like the rest of the range, it's 'end of life'. Is there a
new model anywhere near ready for production?

From interviews on Radio 4 this morning it's not even clear who owns
the MG name either! The Rover name is still owned by BMW.
Much is made of German and French patriotism in buying their>> home-grown products. If I was German I'd be happy to choose between>> BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Volkswagen. In the UK we can choose between>> Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Land Rover, Ford etc etc and still support UK>> workforces.>
It's not just about workforces, it's about engineering and design too. >You should have watched James Dyson's Dimbleby lecture last year, for >example. It's of vital strategic importance that design and engineering >leadership and skills are retained. After all, when the Chinese take >over the world economy in a few decades' time, how are you going to feel >if we depend on them for all our technology and design? It isn't just >about having a job on a production line. It's also about being in >control of those who designs the products. To put one aspect of the >problem in rather simplistic tersm as an example, do you think the >Chinese designers will care as much about the needs and desires of 50 >million Britons when they have 1 billion of their own customers to keep >happy? Do you want a drive a car designed for a 6ft British male and >British roads, or a 5ft6 Chinese male and Chinese roads?

I agree that we need skills - my degree is mech eng although I
deserted to IT some time ago. The Chinese issue is very complex, and
they already have a massive impact on our economy - just look at fuel
and steel prices as quick examples. However, does MG Rover really
represent the pinnacle of UK engineering? It's a very old and
outdated plant and even if it was levelled and rebuilt regardless of
cost, we still couldn't compete based on labour rates to supply the
Chinese market. That just leaves the European and US markets, and
they are totally oversupplied (as is the Chinese one at present, BTW).

We do still have a vibrant motor industry though, it just isn't in
monoliths like Longbridge. It's in Formula One, it's in Norfolk, it's
in Blackpool etc. I'm not sure about China, but can you name one
genuine invention to have come from Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the like?
Perhaps there's a real future in UK/European design allied to mass
production in low labour cost economies?

In many other areas we already do depend on other, far flung and
culturally different nations for supply - oil, electronics for two.
Yes, we have capacity of our own, but nothing like enough to be
self-sufficient.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii­.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-s­ystems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill­.com
Add comment
RichardK 11 April 2005 18:38:09 permanent link ]
 Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
My God, why is it that you insist on assuming that because MG-Rover > produced the Maestro, any other new MG *must* be equally bad? And yet no > such assumption (from I judge of the opinions I hear) is ever applied to > any other brand from any other country!

Why does everyone say the Maestro was so bad, anyway? They handle better
than contemporary Astras and Escorts (I won't even mention the Chevette
- I like them but good handling cars they were not), they're roomier and
more comfortable. The styling might be odd, but it wasn't bad - the
glass area and thin pillars made for a very pleasant and airy car. They
didn't even rust significantly, especially in comparison to the Escort.

The only car I can think of that is equally panned yet vastly superior
to the competition was the Citroen GS, which in 1971 (IIRC?) was like
being handed the future on a plate. And people still bought sodding Vivas.

I'd rather have an MG Maestro Turbo over an Astra GTE 16v anyday. At
least the Maestro can corner. I've owned an MG Montego, too - wasn't a
bad car at all.

In fact, most people I know with Montego estates only really want to
replace them with another Montego estate, for some reason.

Richard

--
RichardK - 1980s in a can. http://www.dmc12.de­mon.co.uk/music/
Retro computing - http://www.dmc12.de­mon.co.uk/retrotech/­
Cars - 2004 Beetle Cabrio, 1989 Supra 3.0i, 1990 Sera
MidiGuitar, Enterprise 128, AU/X. Apple 77-04. See links ;)
Add comment
RichardK 11 April 2005 18:48:53 permanent link ]
 Tim Hobbs wrote:
Yes, lots of it is derivative, but a good deal isn't. My main point> was that the future value of the 75 is as much about the development> pipeline as the current model. I don't know what, if anything, is in> the design pipeline at MG Rover. Based on industry standards the next> model ought to be about signed off by now.

The next model of 45 was signed off. All over Auto Express a fortnight
ago. Quite a nice looking effort.

And as for derivative; the S-Type Jaguar that the 75 competed with in
many people's eyes, is quite heavily based on the last generation
Scorpio floorpan wise. The same (DEW98) platform has just been launched
as a new car again, under the Mustang. As for Fiat; the Strada platform
became the Tipo platform with minor changes, and then went on to
underpin everything from the Tipo to the Alfa GTV. The Strada itself was
little removed from the 1960s 128, too.

The French are masters of the art - Peugeot 104 to 106 via 205, AX, Visa
, 309 and Saxo...
I don't doubt that they are selling, but how many people buying MG's> are doing so because of this wonderful heritage. I know about the> glorious history because I'm quite interested in classic cars, but> most of my contemporaries are more driven by fashion, performance> sheets and magazine reviews. So I doubt the real value of 'the brand'> and suspect they would sell almost as well if they were called Kia.

You're not paying much attention, then. I know loads of people, mostly
MG ZR owners, who bought the car because it's a small sporty hatch, and
they associate MG with XPower. They know it's British, they know it's
sporty, and they may be vaguely aware of some CAMRA members in B
roadsters, but it certainly wasn't their motivation to own the car.

The MG F did even better. It couldn't be more removed from the MG
Midget; it's a genuinely sporting car and aside from the seat bolsters
which appear to be derived from the Inquisition's worst torture devices
is very comfortable and quite practical.
We do still have a vibrant motor industry though, it just isn't in> monoliths like Longbridge. It's in Formula One, it's in Norfolk, it's> in Blackpool etc. I'm not sure about China, but can you name one> genuine invention to have come from Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the like?

The Sony Walkman.
Dihedral doors, as on my Sera.
The Erhu, a strung fretless instrument played like a violin.

Now, should I actually research it, too?

Richard

--
RichardK - 1980s in a can. http://www.dmc12.de­mon.co.uk/music/
Retro computing - http://www.dmc12.de­mon.co.uk/retrotech/­
Cars - 2004 Beetle Cabrio, 1989 Supra 3.0i, 1990 Sera
MidiGuitar, Enterprise 128, AU/X. Apple 77-04. See links ;)
Add comment
Howard Rose 11 April 2005 20:38:30 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:38:09 +0100, RichardK
<atari@NOSPAMbtconn­ect.com> wrote:
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:>
My God, why is it that you insist on assuming that because MG-Rover >> produced the Maestro, any other new MG *must* be equally bad? And yet no >> such assumption (from I judge of the opinions I hear) is ever applied to >> any other brand from any other country!>
Why does everyone say the Maestro was so bad, anyway? They handle better >than contemporary Astras and Escorts <snip>

and having driven a brand new Maestro a year or so ago, the chinese
have made a bloody nice job of it too. Decent engine and build
quality and nicely updated. Plus it sells for less than four grand.

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81­.co.uk/ (cars on website)
Add comment
Andy Dingley 11 April 2005 21:16:23 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:38:09 +0100, RichardK
<atari@NOSPAMbtconn­ect.com> wrote:
I'd rather have an MG Maestro Turbo over an Astra GTE 16v anyday.

Around 10 years ago my parents bought a diesel turbo Maestro, with a
Perkins engine. That engine admittedly didn't last long, but the
engine and whole car were surprisingly good while it did.

_Far_ better than the nasty Citroen ZX they were driving lately.

I never liked the Citroen GS though. It fell inbetween the Dyane and
the CX and offered the worst of both. If you ever did fill up the
enormous interior space it was so underpowered it could barely climb a
carpark ramp (I remember dumping my passengers out of one before doing
so).

Add comment
Chris Morriss 11 April 2005 22:17:41 permanent link ]
 In message <425a600f$0$288$cc9­e4d1f@news-text.dial­.pipex.com>, Michael
Kilpatrick <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> writes>Donny wrote:>
"Save MG Rover" <newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote in message >>news:42599b95$1_4­@alt.athenanews.com.­..>>
FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE >>>INVESTMENT>> Why?>> Both the first MG and Rover were crap cars run by shoddy businessmen>> When it became MG Rover it was even more so, phoenix was just >>another bunch of losers!>> Let it die, I won't say gracefully, because it should have put to >>rest years ago.>
Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth >investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the >Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some >sections of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s. The >fact is that this is not the 1970s. The Rover 75 was the Car of the >Year when it was launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than >the Jaguar S-type. The MG models are extremely popular sports cars.>
So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are >stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity. >I know which I believe.>
Unfortunately nobody has been sufficiently able to kick the British >public's views into shape. Rover's advertising has been pathetic, for a >start.>
Michael>

Selling it to BMW was the mistake. Under Honda's ownership it was
really starting to dig itself out of the hole it was in.
--
Chris Morriss
Add comment
Mike G 11 April 2005 22:48:24 permanent link ]
 
"RichardK" <atari@NOSPAMbtconn­ect.com> wrote in message
news:3bvdaaF6gssb8U­1@individual.net...
One opinion many people seem to have that I don't share is the concept> of the cars being "dated". Cars are cars. If someone made a car that> looked like the 300SL Gullwing - hell, if Mercedes had continued to make> the 300SL Gullwing to special order for the past half-century (is that> right? Is that car now 50 years old?), would you complain that it was> dated - especially if the suspension, brakes and tyres were just as> modern as any other car? I drive a 3.0i Supra. It is as comfortable,> fast, spacious and IMO, safe (at least before airbags are needed) as any> comparable 2005 car I could name, and a hell of a lot prettier.

I think the the concept of cars being 'dated' is tied in with the idea of a
certain design or shape being fashionable, and to show the neighbours you
have a new car. :-)­
What a stupid reason for buying a car.
AFAIC a car is a tool for getting from A to B. It shouldn't be a fashion
statement.
Unless a new car is fundamentally better than it's predecessor, why tart
around with what it looks like.
I drive a 'dated' car. 2 in fact. A '94 BM 5 series, and a Celica ST185 GT4
coupe. IMO, both are good looking cars, by any stds.
Mike.

Add comment
Chris Bolus 11 April 2005 23:37:22 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:17:41 +0100, Chris Morriss
<crsm@oroboros.demo­n.co.uk> wrote:
In message <425a600f$0$288$cc9­e4d1f@news-text.dial­.pipex.com>, Michael >Kilpatrick <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> writes>>Donny wrote:>>
"Save MG Rover" <newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote in message >>>news:42599b95$1_­4@alt.athenanews.com­...>>>
FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE >>>>INVESTMENT>>> Why?>>> Both the first MG and Rover were crap cars run by shoddy businessmen>>> When it became MG Rover it was even more so, phoenix was just >>>another bunch of losers!>>> Let it die, I won't say gracefully, because it should have put to >>>rest years ago.>>
Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth >>investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the >>Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some >>sections of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s. The >>fact is that this is not the 1970s. The Rover 75 was the Car of the >>Year when it was launched and in some quarters is viewed as better than >>the Jaguar S-type. The MG models are extremely popular sports cars.>>
So, either BMW and SAIC are both stupid, or the British public are >>stupid and just can't help but do themselves down at every opportunity. >>I know which I believe.>>
Unfortunately nobody has been sufficiently able to kick the British >>public's views into shape. Rover's advertising has been pathetic, for a >>start.>>
Michael>>
Selling it to BMW was the mistake. Under Honda's ownership it was >really starting to dig itself out of the hole it was in.

Absolutely. BMW were only after the 4x4 technology and the MINI name,
after which they dumped the rest
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email)
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
---1967 Riley Elf---1965 Hillman Minx---1969 Morris Minor--
-1972 Mini Clubman estate--1957 Standard 8--1979 Ford Capri
********** Please don't email in HTML! **********
Add comment
Adrian 11 April 2005 23:39:51 permanent link ]
 Chris Bolus (chris@FARINAb0lus.­com) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :
Absolutely. BMW were only after the 4x4 technology

Is that why the X3 drivetrain was developed by Steyr?
Add comment
Chris Bolus 11 April 2005 23:41:23 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:19:18 +0100, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:
Rover never made good small cars - think of the Metro, Maestro and 100. >Rover made larger, executive cars - the car "my bank manager drives", as >they said in the 1960s. The P5, P6, SD1, 800, 75 - those are the cars >that are "Rovers".>
They screwed up the classic Mini as well, by making small design mods
that caused them to rot even quicker. There are three Minis in my garden
right now. The 72 Clubman will be restored in due course, the 85 Mayfair
is almost finished, but the 93 Sprite is so far gone I'm making a
grasstracker out of it.
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email)
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
---1967 Riley Elf---1965 Hillman Minx---1969 Morris Minor--
-1972 Mini Clubman estate--1957 Standard 8--1979 Ford Capri
********** Please don't email in HTML! **********
Add comment
John Redman 11 April 2005 23:45:16 permanent link ]
 "Michael Kilpatrick" <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote
Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth > investing in.

BMW: 4 x 4 technology and the rights to the new Mini.

SAIC: the Rover name, which they apparently already have the rights to.

That's it.


Add comment
John Redman 11 April 2005 23:47:02 permanent link ]
 
"Tim Hobbs" <tim@101ambulance-u­rine.net> wrote
On the other hand, Phoenix gave people jobs for a few more years than> they would have had them under Alchemy.

On the third hand, the workers are all 6 years older, have not acquired any
new skills, and will be lucky to get Ј3k each redundo versus the Ј50k
Alchemy were offering.


Add comment
Adrian 11 April 2005 23:48:26 permanent link ]
 John Redman (johnphilipredman@h­otmailREMOVETHEBLEED­INOBVIOUS.com) gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying :
SAIC: the Rover name, which they apparently already have the rights to.

No, BMW own the name. MG-R were using it under licence.

SAIC wanted the engine technology, and the 25 & 75 manufacturing rights.
Which they'll buy/have already bought from the administrators dirt cheap
without having to muck about with closing Longbridge down.
Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 00:08:51 permanent link ]
 On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:32:58 UTC, "Save MG Rover"
<newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote:

: As a philanthropic
: organisation dedicated to the survival of the MG and Rover marquees, Save
: MGR would like to take this opportunity to invite
: "pledge investors" to pledge their potential investment in respect of the
: possible acquisition of MG Rover or constituent parts
: (ie. MG/Rover/both marquees).

Quite apart from trying to save a couple of tents, you think you can
get a few folk to chip in and make up losses which neither BMW nor the
Chinese government could contemplate?

Ian


--

Add comment


Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 00:16:19 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:32:09 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth
: investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the
: Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some sections
: of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s.

Exactly. BMW were willing to pay a billion pounds (interest free loan)
to get the company off their hands and the Chinese, having licenced
most of the IP they wanted, seem happy to wait and pick up a few
machines at the sale.

Both of them have made a very clear evaluation of Rover.

Ian


--

Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 00:18:48 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:36:51 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: You should have watched James Dyson's Dimbleby lecture last year, for
: example. It's of vital strategic importance that design and engineering
: leadership and skills are retained.

Remind us, will you, where Mr Patriotism now makes his vacuum
cleaners?

Ian


--

Add comment


Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 00:22:14 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:19:18 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: Rover never made good small cars - think of the Metro, Maestro and 100.
: Rover made larger, executive cars - the car "my bank manager drives", as
: they said in the 1960s. The P5, P6, SD1, 800, 75 - those are the cars
: that are "Rovers".

But the modern Rover has, basically, nothing whatsoever to do with
that Rover except the badge. If anything, it's Austin - and they did
make small cars.

Ian


--

Add comment
Ian Dalziel 12 April 2005 01:08:39 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:16:23 +0100, Andy Dingley
<dingbat@codesmiths­.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:38:09 +0100, RichardK><atari@NOS­PAMbtconnect.com> wrote:>
I'd rather have an MG Maestro Turbo over an Astra GTE 16v anyday. >
Around 10 years ago my parents bought a diesel turbo Maestro, with a>Perkins engine. That engine admittedly didn't last long, but the>engine and whole car were surprisingly good while it did.>
_Far_ better than the nasty Citroen ZX they were driving lately.>
I never liked the Citroen GS though. It fell inbetween the Dyane and>the CX and offered the worst of both. If you ever did fill up the>enormous interior space it was so underpowered it could barely climb a>carpark ramp (I remember dumping my passengers out of one before doing>so).

It wasn't a new GS, though, was it? What you are describing sounds to
me like a GS without lobes on the camshafts.
--

Ian
Add comment


David Lane 12 April 2005 01:26:21 permanent link ]
 
"Save MG Rover" <newspost@savemgr.o­rg.uk> wrote in message
news:42599b95$1_4@a­lt.athenanews.com...­> FOR ALL MG/ROVER ENTHUSIASTS WORLDWIDE - SAVE MG ROVER WITH PLEDGE > INVESTMENT>
Many thanks for your time - keep MG Rover rolling!>
Save MGR>

Why? The directors have already sold off the rights to build the 25 and 75
to SAIC, the land to a lease-holder and pretty much everything else. The
Rover brand belongs to BMW and the directors have hived off Rover Financial
Services and engine manufacture to their own slush-fund.

Corporate greed.

David


Add comment
Michael Kilpatrick 12 April 2005 02:09:30 permanent link ]
 Ian Johnston wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:36:51 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick > <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:>
: You should have watched James Dyson's Dimbleby lecture last year, for > : example. It's of vital strategic importance that design and engineering > : leadership and skills are retained. >
Remind us, will you, where Mr Patriotism now makes his vacuum > cleaners?

We're not just counting jobs as though they were beans. There's for
more to it than that.The point was that it isn't just the jobs in
manufacturing, it's the control over the design and engineering. Dyson
claimed that he employs more people in the UK as a result of moving
assembly to Malaysia. Those UK jobs are more skilled, many of them in
engineering design. Furthermore, the assembly of vacuum cleaners is far
less skilled than the assembly of cars.

Michael

Add comment
Michael Kilpatrick 12 April 2005 02:15:24 permanent link ]
 Ian Johnston wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:19:18 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick > <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:>
: Rover never made good small cars - think of the Metro, Maestro and 100. > : Rover made larger, executive cars - the car "my bank manager drives", as > : they said in the 1960s. The P5, P6, SD1, 800, 75 - those are the cars > : that are "Rovers".>
But the modern Rover has, basically, nothing whatsoever to do with > that Rover except the badge. If anything, it's Austin - and they did > make small cars.

I assume you are talking abouthe Rover 75? That was what I was referring
to. No, the quality of the trim, the ride comfort and style is very much
Rover.

Michael

Add comment
Michael Kilpatrick 12 April 2005 02:22:58 permanent link ]
 Ian Johnston wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:32:09 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick > <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:>
: Ask yourself why both BMW and SAIC thought there was something worth > : investing in. Personally I have more faith in their evaluation of the > : Rover/MG technologies and brands than I do in the views of some sections > : of the British public who can't think beyond the 1970s. >
Exactly. BMW were willing to pay a billion pounds (interest free loan)> to get the company off their hands

After pumping several billion into it in the first place, because they
recognised the positive aspects of the brand image. Failing to convince
the miserable British public probably wasn't something they envisaged.
and the Chinese, having licenced > most of the IP they wanted, seem happy to wait and pick up a few > machines at the sale.

So let's see:

1) Ford were very happy to take Land Rover.
2) BMW were more than happy to keep Mini.
3) SAIC were rather keen on the production rights to the Rover 75
4) Sales of the MG-ZR rose 10% in the first 3 months of 2005.
5) MGF is a very popular sports car.

So what exactly of any significance is left from the MG-Rover range as a
whole that made it such a disaster?

Michael

Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 02:54:17 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:09:30 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: Dyson
: claimed that he employs more people in the UK as a result of moving
: assembly to Malaysia.

And I saw Ian Paisley crying at the Pope's funeral.

Ian

--

Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 03:00:25 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:22:58 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:

: > Exactly. BMW were willing to pay a billion pounds (interest free loan)
: > to get the company off their hands
:
: After pumping several billion into it in the first place, because they
: recognised the positive aspects of the brand image.

And that was part of the problem. Suddenly digging up the Rover brand
/and/ trying to wind its image back to the sixties was never going to
be terribly convincing.

: Failing to convince
: the miserable British public probably wasn't something they envisaged.

OK, so their market research wasn't too bright.

: So let's see:
:
: 1) Ford were very happy to take Land Rover.

Which is now going down the tubes

: 2) BMW were more than happy to keep Mini.

Which they had invented, and basically had bugger all to do with the
UK car industry.

: 3) SAIC were rather keen on the production rights to the Rover 75

So they could make it a modern factory where troublesome union types
can expect twenty years in a concentration camp ...

: 4) Sales of the MG-ZR rose 10% in the first 3 months of 2005.

From? To? At what profit per unit?

: 5) MGF is a very popular sports car.

Sales compared to the MX-5?

: So what exactly of any significance is left from the MG-Rover range as a
: whole that made it such a disaster?

OK, so they managed to flog a few chavved up Rover 200's and 400's.
Big deal. Quality (except, I am told, on the 75, which I think is
jolly nice looking, apart, obviously, from the Max Power MG version)
continued to be appalling.

Ian
Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 03:02:06 permanent link ]
 On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:15:24 UTC, Michael Kilpatrick
<michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:

: > But the modern Rover has, basically, nothing whatsoever to do with
: > that Rover except the badge. If anything, it's Austin - and they did
: > make small cars.
:
: I assume you are talking abouthe Rover 75? That was what I was referring
: to. No, the quality of the trim, the ride comfort and style is very much
: Rover.

Except that Rover had nothing to do with it. The Rover you are
referring to ceased to exist, in any meaningful sense, when the SD1
came along. The 75 - nice as it is - is a BMW design made in an Austin
factory. "Rover" is the badge, and nothing else.

Ian
Add comment
Grimly Curmudgeon 12 April 2005 04:13:25 permanent link ]
 It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember RichardK
<atari@NOSPAMbtconn­ect.com> saying something like:
I'm not sure about China, but can you name one>> genuine invention to have come from Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the like?>
The Sony Walkman.

Not quite. People were using small portable cassette players and
headphones long before Sony stole the idea.
--

Dave
SE6a
Add comment
Grimly Curmudgeon 12 April 2005 04:13:26 permanent link ]
 It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Dingley
<dingbat@codesmiths­.com> saying something like:
I'd rather have an MG Maestro Turbo over an Astra GTE 16v anyday. >
Around 10 years ago my parents bought a diesel turbo Maestro, with a>Perkins engine. That engine admittedly didn't last long, but the>engine and whole car were surprisingly good while it did.

Gaud nose how they managed to kill a Perkins Maestro engine. Those
things were almost indestructible.
_Far_ better than the nasty Citroen ZX they were driving lately.>
I never liked the Citroen GS though. It fell inbetween the Dyane and>the CX and offered the worst of both. If you ever did fill up the>enormous interior space it was so underpowered it could barely climb a>carpark ramp (I remember dumping my passengers out of one before doing>so).

Must have been well knackered. A fairly new GS I had many moons back
could fairly motor and was amazingly comfortable.
--

Dave
SE6a
Add comment
Dean Dark 12 April 2005 04:21:17 permanent link ]
 On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:13:26 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimlycurmudgeon68­3@hotmail.com> wrote:
I never liked the Citroen GS though. It fell inbetween the Dyane and>>the CX and offered the worst of both. If you ever did fill up the>>enormous interior space it was so underpowered it could barely climb a>>carpark ramp (I remember dumping my passengers out of one before doing>>so).>
Must have been well knackered. A fairly new GS I had many moons back>could fairly motor and was amazingly comfortable.

I have similar fond memories of my '59 DS19, but I know that it's a
performance dog by today's standards, or even by the standards of 20
years ago.
Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 10:33:44 permanent link ]
 On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:58:58 UTC, "Pete M"
<pete.murray@blue-n­opressedmeat-yonder.­co.uk> wrote:

: In news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-p­n2-KfI0JqMFBNQd@loca­lhost,
: Ian Johnston <NOianSPAM.NOgroups­SPAM@btinternet.com>­ decided to enlighten
: our sheltered souls with a rant as follows
:
: > Except that Rover had nothing to do with it. The Rover you are
: > referring to ceased to exist, in any meaningful sense, when the SD1
: > came along. The 75 - nice as it is - is a BMW design made in an Austin
: > factory. "Rover" is the badge, and nothing else.
:
: The SD1 was a David Bache design, and was derived from the P10 project of
: the 1960s.
:
: The SD1 was the last *real* Rover, and as far as I'm concerned one of the
: greatest cars ever built - in V8 form, obviously. The others were all crap.

I agree with you there. But what I meant was that the SD1 marked the
end of the "sedate travel for the bank manager" image of Rover.

Ian
Add comment
Ian Johnston 12 April 2005 10:35:18 permanent link ]
 On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:21:17 UTC, Dean Dark
<ddrake@comcast.not­this.net> wrote:

: I have similar fond memories of my '59 DS19, but I know that it's a
: performance dog by today's standards, or even by the standards of 20
: years ago.

Ah, but how about the standards of forty years ago?

I find my DS23 very acceptable - but there is quite a lot more power
there.

Ian

--

Add comment
Adrian 12 April 2005 11:01:52 permanent link ]
 Michael Kilpatrick (michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk)
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Furthermore, the assembly of vacuum cleaners is> far less skilled than the assembly of cars.

It certainly is for Dyson's unreliable heaps of crap...

You want a Henry. Designed & *properly* built in the UK. Half the price,
twice the quality of a PlaySkool MyFirstDyson.
Add comment
Adrian 12 April 2005 11:05:37 permanent link ]
 Pete M (pete.murray@blue-n­opressedmeat-yonder.­co.uk) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :
The SD1 was a David Bache

development of one of a pair of Pininfarina styling concepts also ripped
off by Citroen for the CX and (most obviously) the GS.

http://www.landcrab­.net/mainframes/main­_pinafarina1800.htm
http://www.austin-r­over.co.uk/images/pf­1800.jpg
Add comment
Willy Eckerslyke 12 April 2005 12:41:43 permanent link ]
 Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Dingley> <dingbat@codesmiths­.com> saying something like:
Around 10 years ago my parents bought a diesel turbo Maestro, with a>>Perkins engine. That engine admittedly didn't last long, but the>>engine and whole car were surprisingly good while it did.
Gaud nose how they managed to kill a Perkins Maestro engine. Those> things were almost indestructible.

I was about to say the same thing. A friend is currently having fun
fitting one out of a Montego into his Series 3 Landrover. This is such a
popular conversion that rusty diesel Montegos and the like are now worth
well into three figures!
Add comment
Richard Porter 12 April 2005 19:34:29 permanent link ]
 On 11 Apr 2005 Tim Hobbs <tim@101ambulance-u­rine.net> wrote:
The Rover 75 was the Car of the Year when it was launched and in> > some quarters is viewed as better than the Jaguar S-type.>
6 years ago. Where is the replacement? It's old - hardly worth> buying a company for.

And the classic Mini lasted how long? And with hardly any advertising ..

--
Richard Porter
Mail to username ricp at domain minijem.plus.com
"You can't have Windows without pains."
Add comment
Pete M 12 April 2005 23:08:19 permanent link ]
 In news:Xns96365255C9C­0Dadrianachapmanfree­is@204.153.244.170,
Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.­com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with
a rant as follows> Pete M (pete.murray@blue-n­opressedmeat-yonder.­co.uk) gurgled happily,> sounding much like they were saying :>
The SD1 was a David Bache>
development of one of a pair of Pininfarina styling concepts also> ripped off by Citroen for the CX and (most obviously) the GS.>

I don't agree.

Personally I think the SD1 owes more to the Ferrari Daytona than the Pinin
1800.

Apart from the C pillar design, the SD1 and P1800 don't have much in common
at all.

As I said, the SD1 was a David Bache design which evolved from the P10
project.

The P1800 is far closer to the GS than to SD1. To say the SD1 is derived
from it is like saying the Bentley Arnage is a direct crib of the HA Viva,
due to being a "three box" design.

--
Pete M

Mercedes 260E
Ford Capri (ressurection started)
"Never moon a werewolf"

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain


Add comment
Grimly Curmudgeon 13 April 2005 04:06:38 permanent link ]
 It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Howard Rose
<austinmini62NOSPAM­@lycos.co.uk> saying something like:
and having driven a brand new Maestro a year or so ago, the chinese>have made a bloody nice job of it too. Decent engine and build>quality and nicely updated. Plus it sells for less than four grand.

Are the Chinese making the diesel version also? And where on the web may
we find these wondrous creatures?
--

Dave
SE6a
Add comment
Adrian 13 April 2005 12:51:13 permanent link ]
 Pete M (pete.murray@blue-n­opressedmeat-yonder.­co.uk) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :
Personally I think the SD1 owes more to the Ferrari Daytona than the> Pinin 1800.

Certainly the nose treatment is a straight ripoff of the Daytona. And none
the worse for it.
Apart from the C pillar design, the SD1 and P1800 don't have much in> common at all.

I can see a very strong resemblance, and I'm currently holding the Matchbox
Pininfarina Landcrab in my hand.
The P1800 is far closer to the GS than to SD1.

No, the GS is a straight copy of the Pininfarina ADO16.

I'm presuming you're not referring to the Volvo P1800...?
Add comment
Adrian 13 April 2005 12:52:37 permanent link ]
 Grimly Curmudgeon (grimlycurmudgeon68­3@hotmail.com) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :
and having driven a brand new Maestro a year or so ago, the chinese>>have made a bloody nice job of it too. Decent engine and build>>quality and nicely updated. Plus it sells for less than four grand.
Are the Chinese making the diesel version also? And where on the web may> we find these wondrous creatures?

I have no idea about the Chinese Maestro, but I have a brochure pack for
the DongFeng Fukang 988... - the Chinese CitZX-with-a-boot..­.

It's in top quality Engrish, and full of references to "the fukang car"
Add comment
Dave Plowman 13 April 2005 13:52:29 permanent link ]
 In article <425af897$0$295$cc9­e4d1f@news-text.dial­.pipex.com>,
Michael Kilpatrick <michael@mtkilpatri­ck.SPAMWITHEGGSfsnet­.co.uk> wrote:> 1) Ford were very happy to take Land Rover.

Ford collect 'posh' names, as there's is anything but. They bought Jaguar
too. But since they're gradually changing both into Ford based products,
it's only the names they really wanted. Not the manufacturing or design
skills. They just hoped for the customers.

BMW were already a 'posh' name, and didn't need another.
2) BMW were more than happy to keep Mini.

They kept nothing but the name - a brilliant one. Perhaps the best known
car name in the world. Then produced a totally new car which only bore a
slight resemblance to the old Mini. Which turned out to be a winner - and
is made in the UK, so saving or creating lots of jobs here.
3) SAIC were rather keen on the production rights to the Rover 75

It's common for 'developing' countries to buy decent but out of date
models. History is full of such things.
4) Sales of the MG-ZR rose 10% in the first 3 months of 2005.> 5) MGF is a very popular sports car.
So what exactly of any significance is left from the MG-Rover range as a > whole that made it such a disaster?

Because certain parts of the company could be profitable. As a whole, it
could never be. Or rather not without the sort of vast investment the
large companies put in their bread and butter models. But most of these
are losing money too, as there are simply too many cars of this type being
made.

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.u­k London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Add comment
Dave Plowman 13 April 2005 14:15:45 permanent link ]
 In article <Xns9637647A4DDF4ad­rianachapmanfreeis@2­04.153.244.170>,
Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.­com> wrote:> It's in top quality Engrish, and full of references to "the fukang car"

I've got an early Akai tape recorder with one of those manuals sort of
being a direct translation from the Japanese.

It says something like:-

"For service, see your dealer, or the main agent for your country stamped
on the backside."

--
*A day without sunshine is like... night.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.u­k London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Add comment
Howard Rose 13 April 2005 14:27:42 permanent link ]
 On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 01:06:38 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimlycurmudgeon68­3@hotmail.com> wrote:
Are the Chinese making the diesel version also? And where on the web may>we find these wondrous creatures?


I'm not too sure if there is a diesel versions. The car badge was
that of FAW (www.faw.com) but I believe the production rights where
bought by a tobacco company called Etsong (http://www.etsong.­com/).

Price was 60,000 Yuan... (ВЈ3,800).

I can't find any info on the web, not even on Chinese sites!

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81­.co.uk/ (cars on website)
Add comment
Adrian 13 April 2005 14:45:57 permanent link ]
 Dave Plowman (News) (dave@davenoise.co.­uk) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :
3) SAIC were rather keen on the production rights to the Rover 75
It's common for 'developing' countries to buy decent but out of date> models. History is full of such things.

It's how BMW and Nissan got started - by licence building the Austin 7.
Add comment
Howard Rose 13 April 2005 15:03:31 permanent link ]
 On 13 Apr 2005 08:52:37 GMT, Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.­com> wrote:
I have no idea about the Chinese Maestro, but I have a brochure pack for >the DongFeng Fukang 988... - the Chinese CitZX-with-a-boot..­.>
It's in top quality Engrish, and full of references to "the fukang car"

Sounds about right for a Citroen.. heh

Not surprised though, DongFeng usually make commercial vehicles. Out
of interest, which market was your English brochure intended?

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81­.co.uk/ (cars on website)
Add comment
Howard Rose 13 April 2005 15:04:46 permanent link ]
 On 13 Apr 2005 10:45:57 GMT, Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.­com> wrote:
It's how BMW and Nissan got started - by licence building the Austin 7.

And Datsun with the Austin Devon...

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81­.co.uk/ (cars on website)
Add comment
Adrian 13 April 2005 15:23:30 permanent link ]
 Howard Rose (austinmini62NOSPAM­@lycos.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :
I have no idea about the Chinese Maestro, but I have a brochure pack for >>the DongFeng Fukang 988... - the Chinese CitZX-with-a-boot..­.>>
It's in top quality Engrish, and full of references to "the fukang car"
Sounds about right for a Citroen.. heh>
Not surprised though, DongFeng usually make commercial vehicles. Out> of interest, which market was your English brochure intended?

No idea. I was sent it by the Chinese manufacturer. Hong Kong?
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Adrian 13 April 2005 15:24:09 permanent link ]
 Howard Rose (austinmini62NOSPAM­@lycos.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :
It's how BMW and Nissan got started - by licence building the Austin 7.
And Datsun with the Austin Devon...

Datsun *AND* Nissan? Blimey, who would have thought it... What a remarkable
coincidence.
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Geoff Mackenzie 13 April 2005 15:43:25 permanent link ]
 
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.­uk> wrote in message
news:4d5ae7adb2dave­@davenoise.co.uk...>­ In article <Xns9637647A4DDF4ad­rianachapmanfreeis@2­04.153.244.170>,> Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.­com> wrote:> > It's in top quality Engrish, and full of references to "the fukang car">
I've got an early Akai tape recorder with one of those manuals sort of> being a direct translation from the Japanese.>
It says something like:->
"For service, see your dealer, or the main agent for your country stamped> on the backside.">
Sadly lost in a house move many years ago - my bottle of whisky, bought in
Hong Kong, labelled "Genuine Old King Victoria VIII Highland Whisky, Bottled
In Buckingham Palace".

Geoff MacK


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Adrian 13 April 2005 16:20:11