OT -- Brand X not running

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CarGuru > Open discussion > OT -- Brand X not running 5 May 2005 13:58:48

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OT -- Brand X not running
Mark Anderson 2 May 2005 04:22:51
	My son's 91 Camaro RS (3.1 V6) died on the side of the interstate yesterday. I drove over to meet him, but could not restart the car. I had it towed home and put it in the garage until this morning. It's got a full tank of gas, so the first thing I wanted to test was the fuel pump. I could hear it run when we turned the key, so I hooked up a fuel pressure guage to the fuel rail and check the pressure. It hit a steady 40-45 pounds with the key turned on. We went to crank it and the danged engine started. I checked the guage and it was still steady at 40-45. So, my son took it out for a test drive. He returned a few minutes later and said that at idle, it ran fine, but when you tried to accelerate it began to stumble. I took the car for a drive and found that if you were going 20-30 mph at around 1700 rpm, it ran fine. Another over 1700 and it started cutting out. I took it out on the main road and managed 45, but that was it. Brought the car home, shut it off and it would not restart. So I checked for spark at the plugs. Good spark. Replaced the fuel filter (as it felt it was starving to fuel). No change. Car would start, but now idle roughly. Replaced the coil with a new one I had in the garage. (Get it--throw parts at the problem;). Finally, I pulled codes off the ECM. Nothing, no error codes, all appears normal. But, I did pull the leads off of one of the injectors and find I'm not getting 12 volts when the key is on, or the engine is cranking. There should be 12 volts there right? Any ideas (other than trading it for a Studebaker)? Mark 65 Cruiser
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Craig Parslow 2 May 2005 04:52:35 [ permanent link ]
	"Mark Anderson" <65cruiser@mrstina.com> wrote in message news:1114993371.825009.289380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... , I did pull the leads off of one of the injectors> and find I'm not getting 12 volts when the key is on, or the engine is> cranking. There should be 12 volts there right? I'm not sure about the system you have, but are they designed for a constant 12 volt supply? Some are designed to operate with only 5 volts. Craig. Any ideas (other than> trading it for a Studebaker)?> Mark> 65 Cruiser>
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Mark Anderson 2 May 2005 04:59:21 [ permanent link ]
	I'm not getting 5 either--nothing--nada. Mark
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Jeff DeWitt 2 May 2005 05:09:40 [ permanent link ]
	It could still be a weak fuel pump, you have to check those things for both pressure AND volume. Also there may be more than one fuel filter, it turned out my Jeep had two. Jeff DeWitt Mark Anderson wrote: My son's 91 Camaro RS (3.1 V6) died on the side of the interstate> yesterday. I drove over to meet him, but could not restart the car. I> had it towed home and put it in the garage until this morning. It's> got a full tank of gas, so the first thing I wanted to test was the> fuel pump. I could hear it run when we turned the key, so I hooked up> a fuel pressure guage to the fuel rail and check the pressure. It hit> a steady 40-45 pounds with the key turned on. We went to crank it and> the danged engine started. I checked the guage and it was still steady> at 40-45. So, my son took it out for a test drive. He returned a few> minutes later and said that at idle, it ran fine, but when you tried to> accelerate it began to stumble. I took the car for a drive and found> that if you were going 20-30 mph at around 1700 rpm, it ran fine.> Another over 1700 and it started cutting out. I took it out on the> main road and managed 45, but that was it.> Brought the car home, shut it off and it would not restart. So I> checked for spark at the plugs. Good spark. Replaced the fuel filter> (as it felt it was starving to fuel). No change. Car would start, but> now idle roughly. Replaced the coil with a new one I had in the> garage. (Get it--throw parts at the problem;).> Finally, I pulled codes off the ECM. Nothing, no error codes, all> appears normal. But, I did pull the leads off of one of the injectors> and find I'm not getting 12 volts when the key is on, or the engine is> cranking. There should be 12 volts there right? Any ideas (other than> trading it for a Studebaker)?> Mark> 65 Cruiser>
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Jeff Rice 2 May 2005 05:22:38 [ permanent link ]
	Crap in the fuel tank clogging the sock filter? O2 sensor a/o plug connection intermittent (puts you in 'limp home mode', hence the slow performance only. Most electrical glitches have to do with corrosion in the connectors.... Jeff (or a bad ground... Dave told me Jim Turner said that) Rice "Mark Anderson" wrote...> My son's 91 Camaro RS (3.1 V6) died on the side of the interstate> yesterday. I drove over to meet him, but could not restart the car. I> had it towed home and put it in the garage until this morning. It's> got a full tank of gas, so the first thing I wanted to test was the> fuel pump. I could hear it run when we turned the key, so I hooked up> a fuel pressure guage to the fuel rail and check the pressure. It hit> a steady 40-45 pounds with the key turned on. We went to crank it and> the danged engine started. I checked the guage and it was still steady> at 40-45. So, my son took it out for a test drive. He returned a few> minutes later and said that at idle, it ran fine, but when you tried to> accelerate it began to stumble. I took the car for a drive and found> that if you were going 20-30 mph at around 1700 rpm, it ran fine.> Another over 1700 and it started cutting out. I took it out on the> main road and managed 45, but that was it.> Brought the car home, shut it off and it would not restart. So I> checked for spark at the plugs. Good spark. Replaced the fuel filter> (as it felt it was starving to fuel). No change. Car would start, but> now idle roughly. Replaced the coil with a new one I had in the> garage. (Get it--throw parts at the problem;).> Finally, I pulled codes off the ECM. Nothing, no error codes, all> appears normal. But, I did pull the leads off of one of the injectors> and find I'm not getting 12 volts when the key is on, or the engine is> cranking. There should be 12 volts there right? Any ideas (other than> trading it for a Studebaker)?> Mark> 65 Cruiser>
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Jeff DeWitt 2 May 2005 05:30:54 [ permanent link ]
	If it was the O2 sensor wouldn't they be getting a trouble code? Jeff DeWitt Jeff Rice wrote: Crap in the fuel tank clogging the sock filter?> O2 sensor a/o plug connection intermittent (puts you in 'limp home mode', > hence the slow performance only.> Most electrical glitches have to do with corrosion in the connectors....> Jeff (or a bad ground... Dave told me Jim Turner said that) Rice> "Mark Anderson" wrote...> My son's 91 Camaro RS (3.1 V6) died on the side of the interstate>>yesterday. I drove over to meet him, but could not restart the car. I>>had it towed home and put it in the garage until this morning. It's>>got a full tank of gas, so the first thing I wanted to test was the>>fuel pump. I could hear it run when we turned the key, so I hooked up>>a fuel pressure guage to the fuel rail and check the pressure. It hit>>a steady 40-45 pounds with the key turned on. We went to crank it and>>the danged engine started. I checked the guage and it was still steady>>at 40-45. So, my son took it out for a test drive. He returned a few>>minutes later and said that at idle, it ran fine, but when you tried to>>accelerate it began to stumble. I took the car for a drive and found>>that if you were going 20-30 mph at around 1700 rpm, it ran fine.>>Another over 1700 and it started cutting out. I took it out on the>>main road and managed 45, but that was it.>> Brought the car home, shut it off and it would not restart. So I>>checked for spark at the plugs. Good spark. Replaced the fuel filter>>(as it felt it was starving to fuel). No change. Car would start, but>>now idle roughly. Replaced the coil with a new one I had in the>>garage. (Get it--throw parts at the problem;).>> Finally, I pulled codes off the ECM. Nothing, no error codes, all>>appears normal. But, I did pull the leads off of one of the injectors>>and find I'm not getting 12 volts when the key is on, or the engine is>>cranking. There should be 12 volts there right? Any ideas (other than>>trading it for a Studebaker)?>> Mark>>65 Cruiser>>
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--Shiva-- 2 May 2005 05:45:38 [ permanent link ]
	On 1 May 2005 17:22:51 -0700, you wrote: My son's 91 Camaro RS (3.1 V6) died on the side of the interstate>yesterday. I drove over to meet him, but could not restart the car. call the parts store and see about 2 filters.. get a wiring diagram, and see what controls the injectors firing. a crank position sensor, or what? check for bad FUSES, AND bad RELAYS.. --Shiva--
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Dave's Place 2 May 2005 05:53:31 [ permanent link ]
	Jeff (or a bad ground... Dave told me Jim Turner said that) Rice You didn't hear that from me. It was Jim, yelling it from the building tops all across America. <G> -- Dave Lester Dave's Place Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebakers, 'Sheba and Goliath See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com
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Jim Turner 2 May 2005 06:25:44 [ permanent link ]
	Dave, i've been VERY quiet lately on your ground problem! <G> But, I can change that! BOSEG Jim (I'm grounded) Turner "Dave's Place" <spd2@provalue.net> wrote in message news:287f5$427587db$42d21549$28407@provalue.allthenewsgroups.com...> > Jeff (or a bad ground... Dave told me Jim Turner said that) Rice> You didn't hear that from me. It was Jim, yelling it from the building tops> all across America. <G>> --> Dave Lester> Dave's Place> Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebakers, 'Sheba and Goliath> See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com>
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Dave's Place 2 May 2005 07:18:20 [ permanent link ]
	i've been VERY quiet lately on your ground problem! <G> The rumors about problems are groundless. Both children have been behaving well, thank you. But, I can change that! BOSEG And, here I was, all ready to invite you into this area. <G> -- Dave Lester Dave's Place Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebakers, 'Sheba and Goliath See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com
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Mark Anderson 2 May 2005 14:55:25 [ permanent link ]
	As I said, no codes are showing. 45 pounds pressure on the fuel line (flow isn't a problem either), good spark, but the injectors don't seem to be firing. Ignition module? Mark Dave's Place wrote:> > i've been VERY quiet lately on your ground problem! <G>> The rumors about problems are groundless.> Both children have been behaving well, thank you.> But, I can change that! BOSEG> And, here I was, all ready to invite you into this area. <G>> --> Dave Lester> Dave's Place> Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebakers, 'Sheba and Goliath> See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com
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Lee 2 May 2005 17:15:33 [ permanent link ]
	Mark, It may be worth checking to see what the fuel pressue SHOULD be. A buddy of mine had a chevy (actually his wife's) that had similar problems to yours. Turns out that at 45 PSI he was 10 short of what the factory said it took to run the thing.... A new fuel pump cured it. On 2 May 2005 03:55:25 -0700, "Mark Anderson" <65cruiser@mrstina.com> wrote:>As I said, no codes are showing. 45 pounds pressure on the fuel line>(flow isn't a problem either), good spark, but the injectors don't seem>to be firing.> Ignition module?> Mark> Dave's Place wrote:>> > i've been VERY quiet lately on your ground problem! <G>>> The rumors about problems are groundless.>> Both children have been behaving well, thank you.>> But, I can change that! BOSEG>> And, here I was, all ready to invite you into this area. <G>>> -->> Dave Lester>> Dave's Place>> Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebakers, 'Sheba and Goliath>> See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com> Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62
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--Shiva-- 2 May 2005 17:16:39 [ permanent link ]
	As I said, no codes are showing. 45 pounds pressure on the fuel line>>(flow isn't a problem either), good spark, but the injectors don't seem>>to be firing.>> Ignition module?>> Mark get the electrical.. there are relays and such, plus modules involved in this.. --Shiva--
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Midlant@Earthlink.Net 3 May 2005 11:04:09 [ permanent link ]
	A filter downstream of the pump sounds possible to me, too. KDH
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Mark Anderson 3 May 2005 15:01:40 [ permanent link ]
	Well, there is only one filter--I verified that. Last night my son replaced the ignition module and got the car running. Still, it won't do over 40. Idle's real good, but if you rev it up sometimes it'll backfire a bit. Anything over 2700 rpm and she just chokes down. I'm thinking a timing problem, or a plugged cat. I don't think the cat's plugged because usually you can hear that. Anyway, I'm done. While it was running I drove it over to the repair shop last night and dropped it off. I need this one running before South Bend and need to get myself ready. Mark 65 Cruiser
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Ken Matson 3 May 2005 16:01:24 [ permanent link ]
	Bet ya it's a clogged cat. I had two GM's do what you described and you couldn't hear either. Avanti_Ken
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Mark Anderson 3 May 2005 16:36:03 [ permanent link ]
	I had a clogged cat on my 89 Cadillac once, but I could hear hissing coming from the joints and no exhaust coming from the rear of the car. He's got what appears to be good exhaust flow--it's got dual exhaust. Mark
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D.J. 4 May 2005 05:32:05 [ permanent link ]
	Suggestion, check the fireing order. A friend of mine had an older GM half ton that wouldn't go over 50 without bucking and farting when he got it. The previous owner had changed a few things and in the process managed to cross over a couple of wires. Ran well at idle and not bad up to 50 but not over. Ran like slick snot once he got the plug wires straightened out. "Mark Anderson" <65cruiser@mrstina.com> wrote in message news:1115118100.489880.193260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> Well, there is only one filter--I verified that. Last night my son> replaced the ignition module and got the car running. Still, it won't> do over 40. Idle's real good, but if you rev it up sometimes it'll> backfire a bit. Anything over 2700 rpm and she just chokes down. I'm> thinking a timing problem, or a plugged cat. I don't think the cat's> plugged because usually you can hear that.> Anyway, I'm done. While it was running I drove it over to the repair> shop last night and dropped it off. I need this one running before> South Bend and need to get myself ready.> Mark> 65 Cruiser>
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Ken Matson 4 May 2005 07:27:40 [ permanent link ]
	Mark -- True duals? Ya sure? I had two Chevy's that used a crossover/Y pipe to a big cat that had a single input and dual exit out the back of the cat.(GM designed thing. The cat is about 15 inches long, a foot wide and about 3 inches thick and weighs about 25 to 30 lbs. when clogged, 8 - 10 lbs new) If you stood in back of either car and felt the pressure (and pulse) (idle to 1500) at each pipe you would swear the thing's had true duals. What happens is that at idle or around town the cars are fine but as soon as your on the highway at 50 or above (1800 to 2000 rpm)and they heat up, you notice that you don't have any real acceleration capability and if you poke the gas the engine coughs/stumbles and may even die. I used a "temporary" cat "by-pass" test pipe (About $8 - Auto Zone) and my "exhaust constipation problems" were immediately solved. The dealer will soak you $300 for one of those "pancake" cats. Summit has high flow newer technology replacements for around $100. I still think the cat is worth a close check. Heck, it's easy enough to drop it down and run the engine. If you have instant throttle response up to 4000 rpm then ya found your problem. Also, If equipped -- please check to see that the "heat riser valve" is not stuck closed or only partially open. If you have one, it needs to operate freely -- ran into that problem on daughter's 89 Buick V6 -- freed it up -- and her problems went away. Avanti_Ken
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Mark Anderson 4 May 2005 15:21:09 [ permanent link ]
	Turns out it was the computer. It went south, bye bye, etc. That's why I was getting intermittent voltage at the injectors. Mark
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Mark Anderson 4 May 2005 21:08:58 [ permanent link ]
	Oh, and there's more. They replaced the computer and blew THAT one out. It seems this Camaro has sequential fuel injection, or some similar BS. One injector was intermittently shorting out. When that happened, it blew the computer. When it was shorted, car would not run as it took 3 injectors with it. So, have to replace the injector rail, AND the computer. $450.00. Lessee, Stude quits....needs points, condenser, maybe coil......... I should talk my son into a Studebaker. Mark
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Jeff DeWitt 5 May 2005 07:10:02 [ permanent link ]
	Maybe you could do an engine upgrade <G> Jeff DeWit Mark Anderson wrote: Oh, and there's more. They replaced the computer and blew THAT one> out. It seems this Camaro has sequential fuel injection, or some> similar BS. One injector was intermittently shorting out. When that> happened, it blew the computer. When it was shorted, car would not run> as it took 3 injectors with it. So, have to replace the injector rail,> AND the computer.> $450.00. Lessee, Stude quits....needs points, condenser, maybe> coil.........> I should talk my son into a Studebaker.> Mark>
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Mark Anderson 5 May 2005 13:58:48 [ permanent link ]
	ROFL! A Stude powerplant in a belly button car. Now THAT would be different; Mark
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CarGuru > Open discussion > OT -- Brand X not running 5 May 2005 13:58:48

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OT -- Brand X not running

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