Now I remember why I hate Avantis (long)

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CarGuru > Open discussion > Now I remember why I hate Avantis (long) 12 April 2005 03:24:23

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Now I remember why I hate Avantis (long)
Paul Johnson 7 April 2005 06:21:52
	Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the '64 Avanti before my buyer picks it up. That was- adjust the valves- HOT! I had forgotten what a nasty job it is. On a R-2, even if you warm it up properly, it's almost cool before you get all the stuff off to get at the job. First, take off the air cleaner (not as easy on a R-2 as non-supercharged engines). Then take off the supercharger hoses and the bonnet. Take off the supercharger belts so it isn't running with no air cleaner and no load. Remove the throttle kicker (automatic tranny models) so you don't get a sudden thrill while you are trying to run the engine at the lowest possible idle. Take the heater hose bracket loose to move the hoses from directly over the right hand valve cover. Take off the spark plug shielding on that side, then the distributor cover and the shielding on the right hand spark plug wire loom. Take off the virtually unreachable two nuts that hold the right hand loom in place (must be loose to gain enough room to get the valve cover off. It would help to take off the loom entirely, but to do that you have to unfasten the oil gauge line which I'm reluctant to do. Take off the remaining valve cover nut (chrome acorn-type- can you say slippery?). The first nut came off in removing the air cleaner. Try to pull off the valve cover. Try again and swear some. With enough gyration and swearing it did eventually come off. Then I installed a cut-off valve cover that keeps much of the oil from running down the engine. I started the engine and began adjusting, but the rear rocker screw is almost impossible to get to and the cutoff valve cover wasn't cut quite enough to let me get a wrench on the adjusting screw it. So, I took the cut-off cover off and applied my trusty Dremel-type tool (mine is a Mac) to rout a bigger opening. In less than two seconds the router jumped out of the hole and hit the underside of my wrist- hurt like hell and I thought I had done some major damage. However, it was just a superficial injury. First thing I did, though, was went and got my leather gloves that are long enough to cover the injured area. I finished the hole enlargement and put the cover back on and somehow got all the valves adjusted. They all had been pretty loose. I put that valve cover back on and went to the other side. Until I got the body bumped over (as posted last week), I couldn't get the left valve cover off without taking off the brake booster. This time, however, with the requisite twisting, rotating and cussing, it came off. Of course I forgot to take off the accelerator return spring (the one that runs from the throttle bellcrank to a retainer on the rear valve cover bolt. So, one bump and it disappeared into that great black void behind the engine. It didn't make it to the ground and I couldn't see it anywhere. My wonderful magnetic pick-up tool didn't find it either, So, tomorrow I guess I'll hit the local hardware store and see if they have anything close. I put the cut-off cover on and started the adjusting process. I had left the spark plug shielding on, but found that it prevented me from being able to push the feeler gauge straight in so off it came. I also found that the feeler gauge is long enough to make good contact with a hot terminal on the voltage regulator- can you say BIG spark, smoke to follow? On this side I could reach all the adjusting screws but the very back one which required significant contortion (and swearing). Thinking these would be loose like the other side, I did about a 10-12 degree tightening turn on each one before I ran it with the feeler gauge. Surprise, it would barely start and run and the vacuum gauge was fluttering. So, with haste making waste I found that the left bank was not only not loose, but apparently been too tight. So, after making maybe 25 degrees in loosening adjustments, I was finally able to slide the feeler freely between the rocker and the head of the valve on each valve. Part of the reason I wanted to adjust the valves was because I could hear sort of a popping sound at the tail pipe at idle which can indicate a too tight valve. When I was through, that sound had disappeared so I guess I got it right (crossed fingers). Now to put it all back together. Only major problem was the two nuts holding the right wiring loom. I solved that by putting some plumbers putty in the 7/16 socket. I then pressed the nuts into the putty in the socket and hooked up my longest combination of 1/4" extensions. Unbelievable- it worked. All this effort was complicated by the fact that I kept having to put on my glasses to see what I was doing. They sure were oily by the time I was done. My usual luck followed me in to the shop where I went to drop a surplus washer back in my "washer bucket". From a distance of about 12 inches I missed the bucket. When I reached down to move the bucket, it tipped over and I spent the next five minutes gathering up about ten pounds of washers. Why did I do it hot? Because I can't see the markings on the flywheel with all the stuff in the way and I'm not good with the other techniques. I can certainly recommend the cut-off valve cover idea. When the engine was running at about 450 rpm there was a river of oil running along the lower edge of the cut-off to the rear drain holes. Most of that oil would have been running down the side of the engine and on the exhaust pipes (among many other things). Even so, there is still a LOT of oil spattered all over. I found that the front rocker arm on the driver's side could spit oil about three feet straight up or slightly to the side depending on where your face was. Oh well, next week the car is gone. Paul Johnson
		Add comment


GTtim 7 April 2005 06:50:23 [ permanent link ]
	Thanks for all the details, Paul. I like the trick with the plumbers putty. That one is worth remembering. I sure hope your buyer appreciates the effort you've gone to. Tim K.
		Add comment


John Poulos 7 April 2005 07:10:29 [ permanent link ]
	I feel your pain, but once you've done a few dozen, it gets a lot easier. <g> BTW, now you know why I set them cold. I don't use the pointer, just get them close, than bump it around to the biggest gap and touch them up, than do a quick third check spinning the engine. The valve covers come off real easy by just using a pry point with screwdriver between the cover and the waterpump manifold. You take a lot more stuff off than I do by trying to do them hot. Paul Johnson wrote:> Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the '64 > Avanti before my buyer picks it up. That was- adjust the valves- HOT! I > had forgotten what a nasty job it is. On a R-2, even if you warm it up > properly, it's almost cool before you get all the stuff off to get at the > job. First, take off the air cleaner (not as easy on a R-2 as > non-supercharged engines). Then take off the supercharger hoses and the > bonnet. Take off the supercharger belts so it isn't running with no air > cleaner and no load. Remove the throttle kicker (automatic tranny models) > so you don't get a sudden thrill while you are trying to run the engine at > the lowest possible idle. Take the heater hose bracket loose to move the > hoses from directly over the right hand valve cover. Take off the spark > plug shielding on that side, then the distributor cover and the shielding on > the right hand spark plug wire loom. Take off the virtually unreachable two > nuts that hold the right hand loom in place (must be loose to gain enough > room to get the valve cover off. It would help to take off the loom > entirely, but to do that you have to unfasten the oil gauge line which I'm > reluctant to do. Take off the remaining valve cover nut (chrome acorn-type- > can you say slippery?). The first nut came off in removing the air cleaner. > Try to pull off the valve cover. Try again and swear some. With enough > gyration and swearing it did eventually come off. Then I installed a > cut-off valve cover that keeps much of the oil from running down the engine. > I started the engine and began adjusting, but the rear rocker screw is > almost impossible to get to and the cutoff valve cover wasn't cut quite > enough to let me get a wrench on the adjusting screw it. So, I took the > cut-off cover off and applied my trusty Dremel-type tool (mine is a Mac) to > rout a bigger opening. In less than two seconds the router jumped out of > the hole and hit the underside of my wrist- hurt like hell and I thought I > had done some major damage. However, it was just a superficial injury. > First thing I did, though, was went and got my leather gloves that are long > enough to cover the injured area. I finished the hole enlargement and put > the cover back on and somehow got all the valves adjusted. They all had > been pretty loose. I put that valve cover back on and went to the other > side. Until I got the body bumped over (as posted last week), I couldn't > get the left valve cover off without taking off the brake booster. This > time, however, with the requisite twisting, rotating and cussing, it came > off. Of course I forgot to take off the accelerator return spring (the one > that runs from the throttle bellcrank to a retainer on the rear valve cover > bolt. So, one bump and it disappeared into that great black void behind the > engine. It didn't make it to the ground and I couldn't see it anywhere. My > wonderful magnetic pick-up tool didn't find it either, So, tomorrow I guess > I'll hit the local hardware store and see if they have anything close. I > put the cut-off cover on and started the adjusting process. I had left the > spark plug shielding on, but found that it prevented me from being able to > push the feeler gauge straight in so off it came. I also found that the > feeler gauge is long enough to make good contact with a hot terminal on the > voltage regulator- can you say BIG spark, smoke to follow? On this side I > could reach all the adjusting screws but the very back one which required > significant contortion (and swearing). Thinking these would be loose like > the other side, I did about a 10-12 degree tightening turn on each one > before I ran it with the feeler gauge. Surprise, it would barely start and > run and the vacuum gauge was fluttering. So, with haste making waste I > found that the left bank was not only not loose, but apparently been too > tight. So, after making maybe 25 degrees in loosening adjustments, I was > finally able to slide the feeler freely between the rocker and the head of > the valve on each valve. Part of the reason I wanted to adjust the valves > was because I could hear sort of a popping sound at the tail pipe at idle > which can indicate a too tight valve. When I was through, that sound had > disappeared so I guess I got it right (crossed fingers). Now to put it all > back together. Only major problem was the two nuts holding the right wiring > loom. I solved that by putting some plumbers putty in the 7/16 socket. I > then pressed the nuts into the putty in the socket and hooked up my longest > combination of 1/4" extensions. Unbelievable- it worked. All this effort > was complicated by the fact that I kept having to put on my glasses to see > what I was doing. They sure were oily by the time I was done.> My usual luck followed me in to the shop where I went to drop a surplus > washer back in my "washer bucket". From a distance of about 12 inches I > missed the bucket. When I reached down to move the bucket, it tipped over > and I spent the next five minutes gathering up about ten pounds of washers.> Why did I do it hot? Because I can't see the markings on the flywheel with > all the stuff in the way and I'm not good with the other techniques. I can > certainly recommend the cut-off valve cover idea. When the engine was > running at about 450 rpm there was a river of oil running along the lower > edge of the cut-off to the rear drain holes. Most of that oil would have > been running down the side of the engine and on the exhaust pipes (among > many other things). Even so, there is still a LOT of oil spattered all > over. I found that the front rocker arm on the driver's side could spit oil > about three feet straight up or slightly to the side depending on where your > face was.> Oh well, next week the car is gone.> Paul Johnson > -- JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck
		Add comment


John Poulos 7 April 2005 07:11:42 [ permanent link ]
	Never had to do that either, but I have educated fingers.<g> GTtim wrote:> Thanks for all the details, Paul. I like the trick with the plumbers> putty. That one is worth remembering. I sure hope your buyer> appreciates the effort you've gone to.> Tim K.> -- JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck
		Add comment


Alex M 7 April 2005 08:10:10 [ permanent link ]
	I'm with John on this one. I will never again do valves on a running engine and haven't for about 30 years. Do them cold and add .002 to the clearance. You only need to position the engine twice. When the pointer is at zero and #1 is on the compression stroke, adjust the following valves Exhaust 1-3-4-8 Intake 1-2-5-7 With the pointer at zero and #6 on compression adjust Exhaust 2-5-6-7 Intake 3-4-6-8 Alex M "Paul Johnson" <thejohnsons@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:4P05e.3018$hg.1038@news01.roc.ny...> Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the > '64 Avanti before my buyer picks it up. That was- adjust the valves- > HOT! I had forgotten what a nasty job it is. On a R-2, even if you > warm it up properly, it's almost cool before you get all the stuff off > to get at the job. First, take off the air cleaner (not as easy on a > R-2 as non-supercharged engines). Then take off the supercharger > hoses and the bonnet. Take off the supercharger belts so it isn't > running with no air cleaner and no load. Remove the throttle kicker > (automatic tranny models) so you don't get a sudden thrill while you > are trying to run the engine at the lowest possible idle. Take the > heater hose bracket loose to move the hoses from directly over the > right hand valve cover. Take off the spark plug shielding on that > side, then the distributor cover and the shielding on the right hand > spark plug wire loom. Take off the virtually unreachable two nuts > that hold the right hand loom in place (must be loose to gain enough > room to get the valve cover off. It would help to take off the loom > entirely, but to do that you have to unfasten the oil gauge line which > I'm reluctant to do. Take off the remaining valve cover nut (chrome > acorn-type- can you say slippery?). The first nut came off in > removing the air cleaner. Try to pull off the valve cover. Try again > and swear some. With enough gyration and swearing it did eventually > come off. Then I installed a cut-off valve cover that keeps much of > the oil from running down the engine. I started the engine and began > adjusting, but the rear rocker screw is almost impossible to get to > and the cutoff valve cover wasn't cut quite enough to let me get a > wrench on the adjusting screw it. So, I took the cut-off cover off > and applied my trusty Dremel-type tool (mine is a Mac) to rout a > bigger opening. In less than two seconds the router jumped out of the > hole and hit the underside of my wrist- hurt like hell and I thought I > had done some major damage. However, it was just a superficial > injury. First thing I did, though, was went and got my leather gloves > that are long enough to cover the injured area. I finished the hole > enlargement and put the cover back on and somehow got all the valves > adjusted. They all had been pretty loose. I put that valve cover > back on and went to the other side. Until I got the body bumped over > (as posted last week), I couldn't get the left valve cover off without > taking off the brake booster. This time, however, with the requisite > twisting, rotating and cussing, it came off. Of course I forgot to > take off the accelerator return spring (the one that runs from the > throttle bellcrank to a retainer on the rear valve cover bolt. So, > one bump and it disappeared into that great black void behind the > engine. It didn't make it to the ground and I couldn't see it > anywhere. My wonderful magnetic pick-up tool didn't find it either, > So, tomorrow I guess I'll hit the local hardware store and see if they > have anything close. I put the cut-off cover on and started the > adjusting process. I had left the spark plug shielding on, but found > that it prevented me from being able to push the feeler gauge straight > in so off it came. I also found that the feeler gauge is long enough > to make good contact with a hot terminal on the voltage regulator- can > you say BIG spark, smoke to follow? On this side I could reach all > the adjusting screws but the very back one which required significant > contortion (and swearing). Thinking these would be loose like the > other side, I did about a 10-12 degree tightening turn on each one > before I ran it with the feeler gauge. Surprise, it would barely > start and run and the vacuum gauge was fluttering. So, with haste > making waste I found that the left bank was not only not loose, but > apparently been too tight. So, after making maybe 25 degrees in > loosening adjustments, I was finally able to slide the feeler freely > between the rocker and the head of the valve on each valve. Part of > the reason I wanted to adjust the valves was because I could hear sort > of a popping sound at the tail pipe at idle which can indicate a too > tight valve. When I was through, that sound had disappeared so I > guess I got it right (crossed fingers). Now to put it all back > together. Only major problem was the two nuts holding the right > wiring loom. I solved that by putting some plumbers putty in the 7/16 > socket. I then pressed the nuts into the putty in the socket and > hooked up my longest combination of 1/4" extensions. Unbelievable- it > worked. All this effort was complicated by the fact that I kept > having to put on my glasses to see what I was doing. They sure were > oily by the time I was done.> My usual luck followed me in to the shop where I went to drop a > surplus washer back in my "washer bucket". From a distance of about > 12 inches I missed the bucket. When I reached down to move the > bucket, it tipped over and I spent the next five minutes gathering up > about ten pounds of washers.> Why did I do it hot? Because I can't see the markings on the flywheel > with all the stuff in the way and I'm not good with the other > techniques. I can certainly recommend the cut-off valve cover idea. > When the engine was running at about 450 rpm there was a river of oil > running along the lower edge of the cut-off to the rear drain holes. > Most of that oil would have been running down the side of the engine > and on the exhaust pipes (among many other things). Even so, there is > still a LOT of oil spattered all over. I found that the front rocker > arm on the driver's side could spit oil about three feet straight up > or slightly to the side depending on where your face was.> Oh well, next week the car is gone.> Paul Johnson>
		Add comment


Studebaker Kid 7 April 2005 15:43:15 [ permanent link ]
	Always do them cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it up maybe a few of you old timers know what they are.
		Add comment


Paul Johnson 7 April 2005 16:37:28 [ permanent link ]
	"studebaker kid" <hartcreek@bentonrea.com> wrote in message news:1112874195.006457.15260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> Always do them cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it> up maybe a few of you old timers know what they are.> Hey. I'm an old-timer and I never heard of a go/no feeler gage. How does it work? Paul Johnson
		Add comment


Gordon Richmond 7 April 2005 20:48:07 [ permanent link ]
	I bought the setup from Ted harbit to adjust the valves cold with a dial indicator. I used it on a GT Hawk, and it can get a little tight to work on some of the valves, but the end result was a nice quiet engine. Gord Richmond
		Add comment


Ron 12 April 2005 01:14:27 [ permanent link ]
	Did you get an answer? each leaf has two thicknesses, representing the acceptable range or variance for a specific dimension. You adjust the valves (in this case) to where the thinner part will GO and the thicker one is a NO-GO, and you're done. On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:37:28 GMT, "Paul Johnson" <thejohnsons@frontiernet.net> wrote: "studebaker kid" <hartcreek@bentonrea.com> wrote in message >news:1112874195.006457.15260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...>> Always do them cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it>> up maybe a few of you old timers know what they are.>> Hey. I'm an old-timer and I never heard of a go/no feeler gage. How does >it work?>Paul Johnson > Ron/Champ 6 1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6) 1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang) 1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk) 1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley) 1973 Volvo 1800 ES (An Clar)
		Add comment


Paul Johnson 12 April 2005 03:24:23 [ permanent link ]
	"Ron" <ron.dame@att.net> wrote in message news:dspl5117kc1mbqotc6l43mgd3kuj3gbdfc@4ax.com...> Did you get an answer?> each leaf has two thicknesses, representing the acceptable range or> variance for a specific dimension. You adjust the valves (in this> case) to where the thinner part will GO and the thicker one is a> NO-GO, and you're done.> Not until now. Thanks. Paul Johnson
		Add comment

CarGuru > Open discussion > Now I remember why I hate Avantis (long) 12 April 2005 03:24:23

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