lambda sensor runs wide?

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lambda sensor runs wide?
George Gosbee 24 April 2005 11:19:18
	Hello all, I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my 98 Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol the lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its on the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all. Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. I can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s. TIA George
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Nik&Andy 24 April 2005 12:17:27 [ permanent link ]
	"George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Hello all,> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my 98 > Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol the > lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its on > the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. I > can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.> George> Contact the manufacturer of the conversion kit. Andy
		Add comment


Tim.. 24 April 2005 13:51:34 [ permanent link ]
	"George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Hello all,> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my 98> Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol the> lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its on> the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. I> can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.> The petrol ECU is programmed to swing the mixture fairly roughly from rich to lean and they always overshoot which is why you see both extremes of voltage. This is normal and how it should work. After a period at idle or constant cruise you might see it settle down abit better though. Re the LPG, it sounds like you dont have the ECU responding to a closed loop system for some reason, either the base fuelling is too rich and the ecu has gone to full lean (mixture is still too rich) or its ignoring the o2 output, or the sensor isnt hot enough. An unlit propane torch /controllable vacuum leak is always handy at times like this so one can at will make the mixture go rich or lean at will and watch for a reaction from the ecu. Tim..
		Add comment


George Gosbee 24 April 2005 16:07:49 [ permanent link ]
	Would a pair of Mole grips / G clamp on the vaporiser outlet do the same job? Will give it a go. I have put a Snap on MT2500 scanner on the original ecu 0.1 - 0.9 on petrol, when the LPG is running the lambda feed to that is reading 0-1.2 volts (is it a simulated output from the LPG ecu?) but the LPG one is still 0. And it is still rough but it gets better after a few miles, I haven't tried driving with the laptop connected yet. George. "Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:d4fq76$ktg$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...> "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message> news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>> Hello all,>> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my >> 98>> Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol the>> lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its on>> the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.>> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. I>> can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.>> The petrol ECU is programmed to swing the mixture fairly roughly from rich> to lean and they always overshoot which is why you see both extremes of> voltage. This is normal and how it should work. After a period at idle or> constant cruise you might see it settle down abit better though.> Re the LPG, it sounds like you dont have the ECU responding to a closed > loop> system for some reason, either the base fuelling is too rich and the ecu > has> gone to full lean (mixture is still too rich) or its ignoring the o2 > output,> or the sensor isnt hot enough.> An unlit propane torch /controllable vacuum leak is always handy at times> like this so one can at will make the mixture go rich or lean at will and> watch for a reaction from the ecu.> Tim..>
		Add comment


George Gosbee 26 April 2005 07:02:19 [ permanent link ]
	Monday night, The self learning of the LPG ecu is working and its a lot smother can hardly tell any difference to petrol, an odd side effect! the autoadaptive gearbox is electrically connected to the main ecu and when its running on LPG the box stays in high longer. George. "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news_Lae.18796$TZ6.9460@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Would a pair of Mole grips / G clamp on the vaporiser outlet do the same > job? Will give it a go.> I have put a Snap on MT2500 scanner on the original ecu 0.1 - 0.9 on > petrol, when the LPG is running the lambda feed to that is reading 0-1.2 > volts (is it a simulated output from the LPG ecu?) but the LPG one is > still 0. And it is still rough but it gets better after a few miles, I > haven't tried driving with the laptop connected yet.> George.> "Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:d4fq76$ktg$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...>> "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message>> news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>>> Hello all,>>> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my >>> 98>>> Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol >>> the>>> lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its >>> on>>> the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.>>> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. >>> I>>> can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.>>> The petrol ECU is programmed to swing the mixture fairly roughly from >> rich>> to lean and they always overshoot which is why you see both extremes of>> voltage. This is normal and how it should work. After a period at idle or>> constant cruise you might see it settle down abit better though.>> Re the LPG, it sounds like you dont have the ECU responding to a closed >> loop>> system for some reason, either the base fuelling is too rich and the ecu >> has>> gone to full lean (mixture is still too rich) or its ignoring the o2 >> output,>> or the sensor isnt hot enough.>> An unlit propane torch /controllable vacuum leak is always handy at times>> like this so one can at will make the mixture go rich or lean at will and>> watch for a reaction from the ecu.>> Tim..>>
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Tim.. 26 April 2005 16:38:08 [ permanent link ]
	"George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:%aibe.25665$TZ6.9405@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Monday night,> The self learning of the LPG ecu is working and its a lot smother can hardly> tell any difference to petrol, an odd side effect! the autoadaptive gearbox> is> electrically connected to the main ecu and when its running on LPG the box> stays in high longer.> In which case the Petrol ECU isnt "seeing" the engine running as it should (or being fooled into seeing it properly by the gas ECU) as the auto box should change just as normal whichever fuel you are usuing. Sounds like the load signal to the petrol ECU isnt quite being fed to it right. Tim..
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Peter Hill 26 April 2005 20:29:42 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), "Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote: "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message>news:%aibe.25665$TZ6.9405@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>> Monday night,>> The self learning of the LPG ecu is working and its a lot smother can>hardly>> tell any difference to petrol, an odd side effect! the autoadaptive>gearbox>> is>> electrically connected to the main ecu and when its running on LPG the box>> stays in high longer.>> In which case the Petrol ECU isnt "seeing" the engine running as it should>(or being fooled into seeing it properly by the gas ECU) as the auto box>should change just as normal whichever fuel you are usuing.> Sounds like the load signal to the petrol ECU isnt quite being fed to it>right. My auto control box uses Idle switch, WOT switch, TP Sensor via engine ECU, Tachometer, speed. Uses throttle position as one of the parameters and it's bit different with LPG so the shift will change. It thinks you are driving a bit sportier with bigger throttle openings so it holds the gear a bit longer.
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George Gosbee 26 April 2005 20:41:40 [ permanent link ]
	"Peter Hill" <peter.usenet1@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:4jqs61pmhltqv9fca0p69r3ltau6sc8kc9@4ax.com...> On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), "Tim.."> <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote:> "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message>>news:%aibe.25665$TZ6.9405@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>>> Monday night,>>> The self learning of the LPG ecu is working and its a lot smother can>>hardly>>> tell any difference to petrol, an odd side effect! the autoadaptive>>gearbox>>> is>>> electrically connected to the main ecu and when its running on LPG the >>> box>>> stays in high longer.>>> In which case the Petrol ECU isnt "seeing" the engine running as it should>>(or being fooled into seeing it properly by the gas ECU) as the auto box>>should change just as normal whichever fuel you are usuing.>> Sounds like the load signal to the petrol ECU isnt quite being fed to it>>right.> My auto control box uses Idle switch, WOT switch, TP Sensor via engine> ECU, Tachometer, speed. Uses throttle position as one of the> parameters and it's bit different with LPG so the shift will change.> It thinks you are driving a bit sportier with bigger throttle openings> so it holds the gear a bit longer.> The logic sounds right but it the opposite of driving sportier i.e. it wont change (kick-down) as quick. George.
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George Gosbee 27 April 2005 23:57:11 [ permanent link ]
	Wednesday night, Its running very well now, tickover a little unsteady but normal driving is very good. Will give the caravan a tow at the weekend to see what its like under load. Still haven't stopped the wide swing of the lambda signal between the LPG ecu and the original ecu. George. "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:%aibe.25665$TZ6.9405@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Monday night,> The self learning of the LPG ecu is working and its a lot smother can > hardly> tell any difference to petrol, an odd side effect! the autoadaptive > gearbox is> electrically connected to the main ecu and when its running on LPG the box> stays in high longer.> George.> "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message > news_Lae.18796$TZ6.9460@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>> Would a pair of Mole grips / G clamp on the vaporiser outlet do the same >> job? Will give it a go.>> I have put a Snap on MT2500 scanner on the original ecu 0.1 - 0.9 on >> petrol, when the LPG is running the lambda feed to that is reading 0-1.2 >> volts (is it a simulated output from the LPG ecu?) but the LPG one is >> still 0. And it is still rough but it gets better after a few miles, I >> haven't tried driving with the laptop connected yet.>> George.>> "Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote in message >> news:d4fq76$ktg$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...>>> "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message>>> news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...>>>> Hello all,>>>> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my >>>> 98>>>> Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol >>>> the>>>> lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its >>>> on>>>> the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.>>>> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. >>>> I>>>> can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.>>>> The petrol ECU is programmed to swing the mixture fairly roughly from >>> rich>>> to lean and they always overshoot which is why you see both extremes of>>> voltage. This is normal and how it should work. After a period at idle >>> or>>> constant cruise you might see it settle down abit better though.>>> Re the LPG, it sounds like you dont have the ECU responding to a closed >>> loop>>> system for some reason, either the base fuelling is too rich and the ecu >>> has>>> gone to full lean (mixture is still too rich) or its ignoring the o2 >>> output,>>> or the sensor isnt hot enough.>>> An unlit propane torch /controllable vacuum leak is always handy at >>> times>>> like this so one can at will make the mixture go rich or lean at will >>> and>>> watch for a reaction from the ecu.>>> Tim..>>>
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Jeff Pickthall 29 April 2005 11:18:58 [ permanent link ]
	Try posting to uk.rec.cars.fuel.lpg - what they don't know about LPG systems ain't worth knowing.
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George Gosbee 10 May 2005 00:23:45 [ permanent link ]
	Hello all again, Its all settled down a lot now, the tickover is still lumpy I suspect the idle air bleed valve. Perhaps I should try disabling it with the LPG's fault light interrupter circuit. Have decided to leave the lambda emulation to the original ecu alone until the LPG system seems to be as near perfect as I can get it. George. "George Gosbee" <georgegosbee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:WLHae.18402$TZ6.13986@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...> Hello all,> I have just completed the installation of a multipoint LPG system to my 98 > Cit XM 3.0 V6 auto. It works but roughly, I have found that on petrol the > lambda sensor runs wide i.e. near its max and min range but on LPG its on > the bottom all the time i.e. zero or its not reading at all.> Anyone know what a lambda signal should look like on petrol and or LPG. I > can interrogate both the LPG and original ecu,s.> George>
		Add comment




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lambda sensor runs wide?

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