another question for ya all

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another question for ya all
Terry 22 April 2005 03:00:00
	oh and I forgot to thank all of you for the help on my last question.. ok how are the 350 and 305 different besides the power of course like will the intake manifold off of a 305 fit on a 350 for example cause it sure looks like it will.....
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Charles Bendig 22 April 2005 06:06:15 [ permanent link ]
	TERRY wrote:> oh and I forgot to thank all of you for the help on my last question..> ok how are the 350 and 305 different besides the power of course like > will the intake manifold off of a 305 fit on a 350 for example cause it > sure looks like it will..... A 305 and a 350 are in the same basic engine family, as are all small block chevys. The differtances are heads, bore sizes, cranks, crank journials, mains, ect. Internially they are different, and some items DO NOT interchange (IE 350 Crank in 305, or 350 heads on 305). A 350 is a member of the 4 inch bore side of the small block family. This block can take numerios cranks to either rasie or lower the displacement via stroke. With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other then bore enlargement. You are limited as in which heads you can run (they are 305 specific). When it comes to externials, such as water pumps, mechanical fuel pumps, accessiories. All that stuff is interchangeable. You can even use a water pump, pulleys, and accessiories off of a 4.3 V6. Things that won't work on a 305: 400 Small Block ballencers or flywheels, some starters, 4.3 V6 distributors (since it's for a 6 banger), and some other engine year/application specific stuff. Charles
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Matt Borland 22 April 2005 08:26:48 [ permanent link ]
	"Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other> then bore enlargement. Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive head design is beyond me. -Matt- "..."
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Cyrus Welch 22 April 2005 09:37:30 [ permanent link ]
	matt borland wrote:> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>then bore enlargement.> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive> head design is beyond me.> -Matt- "..."> And IIRC, actually stroking it is one of the only options (other than N2O, supercharger or turbo) you have. My understanding is that the casting doesn't allow for any significant increase in bore size without hitting the water jacket. Now, my understanding is that you could use the same supercharger or turbo on the 305 that you would on the 350 so you could put the forced induction on it and then later you could build a 350 to put in it. It would however have been interesting to see what one of those Coates ball valve systems could have done to a 305. It would have solved the valve shrouding problem that makes it so hard to get any real performance out of the poor little things. -- Cy Welch 89 RS 5.0 TBI, not running right now, but it will eventually, with a 350 if I have my way.
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Charles Bendig 23 April 2005 07:31:47 [ permanent link ]
	Cyrus Welch wrote:> matt borland wrote:> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message>> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>> then bore enlargement.>> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although>> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive>> head design is beyond me.>> -Matt- "...">> And IIRC, actually stroking it is one of the only options (other than > N2O, supercharger or turbo) you have. My understanding is that the > casting doesn't allow for any significant increase in bore size without > hitting the water jacket. Now, my understanding is that you could use > the same supercharger or turbo on the 305 that you would on the 350 so > you could put the forced induction on it and then later you could build > a 350 to put in it. It would however have been interesting to see what > one of those Coates ball valve systems could have done to a 305. It > would have solved the valve shrouding problem that makes it so hard to > get any real performance out of the poor little things.> A few months ago I was talking with another local shop owner, who does work turbos. We were talking about my V-8 Typhone 'Clone' Idea. He showed me some data from where they did a 305 Twin Turbo S-10 pick up for a customer. I was pretty impressed with the numbers. That S-10 was in the 10's in the quarter mile. Yet it had been lightened a bit body wise, and uses a tube frame. Not a driver by any means, it's a trailer queen show truck with more in audio equipiment then some of you ever invested in tools. The problem with cost effective turbo systems for SBC's is they don't exsist. Gail Banks stopped making them years ago, so unless you want to spend big bucks for one, your left tying to peice it from Honda Civic kits, and buick GN parts. My idea is a simple one. Find a clean 4x4 Chevy/GMC S-10/S-15 Blazer/Jimmy. Switch the parts needed to lower it to Typhoon ride height, and handling. Convert it to AWD (a simple transfercase replacement), use a 3/4 ton Full size front diff (to handle the increased stresses). Use a 400 small block with Twin turbos (one per cylinder bank) and TPI injection. Parts costs alone will probably run over $19,000. Charles
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Charles Bendig 23 April 2005 07:35:17 [ permanent link ]
	matt borland wrote:> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>then bore enlargement.> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive> head design is beyond me.> -Matt- "..." Who offers this kit? Depending apon the application & costs, for cars under 3,300 pounds.... Engeeners Brain, Inventors Budget... Charles
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Cyrus Welch 24 April 2005 10:21:28 [ permanent link ]
	Charles Bendig wrote:> Cyrus Welch wrote:> matt borland wrote:>> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message>>> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>>> then bore enlargement.>>> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although>>> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive>>> head design is beyond me.>>> -Matt- "...">>> And IIRC, actually stroking it is one of the only options (other than >> N2O, supercharger or turbo) you have. My understanding is that the >> casting doesn't allow for any significant increase in bore size >> without hitting the water jacket. Now, my understanding is that you >> could use the same supercharger or turbo on the 305 that you would on >> the 350 so you could put the forced induction on it and then later you >> could build a 350 to put in it. It would however have been >> interesting to see what one of those Coates ball valve systems could >> have done to a 305. It would have solved the valve shrouding problem >> that makes it so hard to get any real performance out of the poor >> little things.>> A few months ago I was talking with another local shop owner, who > does work turbos. We were talking about my V-8 Typhone 'Clone' Idea.> He showed me some data from where they did a 305 Twin Turbo S-10 pick up > for a customer. I was pretty impressed with the numbers. That S-10 was > in the 10's in the quarter mile. Yet it had been lightened a bit body > wise, and uses a tube frame. Not a driver by any means, it's a trailer > queen show truck with more in audio equipiment then some of you ever > invested in tools.> The problem with cost effective turbo systems for SBC's is they > don't exsist. Gail Banks stopped making them years ago, so unless you > want to spend big bucks for one, your left tying to peice it from Honda > Civic kits, and buick GN parts.> My idea is a simple one. Find a clean 4x4 Chevy/GMC S-10/S-15 > Blazer/Jimmy. Switch the parts needed to lower it to Typhoon ride > height, and handling. Convert it to AWD (a simple transfercase > replacement), use a 3/4 ton Full size front diff (to handle the > increased stresses). Use a 400 small block with Twin turbos (one per > cylinder bank) and TPI injection. Parts costs alone will probably run > over $19,000.> Charles Actually there is a kit out there from a company in Utah that actually replaces the muffler with a turbo. All the reports I have seen say that it works quite well. It may be far easier to adapt that unit than try something else. And I just saw an episode of horsepower tv where Banks said they were doing twin turbo stuff that would bolt onto almost any SBC. I might have to convert to TPI first, but it sounds like one or the other system may be doable. -- Cy Welch Senior Programmer MetSYS Inc http://www.metsysinc.com
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Charles Bendig 24 April 2005 13:04:08 [ permanent link ]
	Cyrus Welch wrote:> Charles Bendig wrote:> Cyrus Welch wrote:>> matt borland wrote:>>> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message>>>> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>>>> then bore enlargement.>>>> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although>>>> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive>>>> head design is beyond me.>>>> -Matt- "...">>>> And IIRC, actually stroking it is one of the only options (other than >>> N2O, supercharger or turbo) you have. My understanding is that the >>> casting doesn't allow for any significant increase in bore size >>> without hitting the water jacket. Now, my understanding is that you >>> could use the same supercharger or turbo on the 305 that you would on >>> the 350 so you could put the forced induction on it and then later >>> you could build a 350 to put in it. It would however have been >>> interesting to see what one of those Coates ball valve systems could >>> have done to a 305. It would have solved the valve shrouding problem >>> that makes it so hard to get any real performance out of the poor >>> little things.>>> A few months ago I was talking with another local shop owner, who >> does work turbos. We were talking about my V-8 Typhone 'Clone' Idea.>> He showed me some data from where they did a 305 Twin Turbo S-10 pick >> up for a customer. I was pretty impressed with the numbers. That S-10 >> was in the 10's in the quarter mile. Yet it had been lightened a bit >> body wise, and uses a tube frame. Not a driver by any means, it's a >> trailer queen show truck with more in audio equipiment then some of >> you ever invested in tools.>> The problem with cost effective turbo systems for SBC's is they >> don't exsist. Gail Banks stopped making them years ago, so unless you >> want to spend big bucks for one, your left tying to peice it from >> Honda Civic kits, and buick GN parts.>> My idea is a simple one. Find a clean 4x4 Chevy/GMC S-10/S-15 >> Blazer/Jimmy. Switch the parts needed to lower it to Typhoon ride >> height, and handling. Convert it to AWD (a simple transfercase >> replacement), use a 3/4 ton Full size front diff (to handle the >> increased stresses). Use a 400 small block with Twin turbos (one per >> cylinder bank) and TPI injection. Parts costs alone will probably run >> over $19,000.>> Charles> Actually there is a kit out there from a company in Utah that actually > replaces the muffler with a turbo. All the reports I have seen say that > it works quite well. It may be far easier to adapt that unit than try > something else. And I just saw an episode of horsepower tv where Banks > said they were doing twin turbo stuff that would bolt onto almost any > SBC. I might have to convert to TPI first, but it sounds like one or > the other system may be doable.> Any Turbo system with the impeller at that great a distance from the engine is going to be a joke. First you have to take in to account the decreased speed of the exhaust gasses the further from the engine they get. Hot Gasses flow faster then gasses that have cooled. Not to mention you will get 6 times the turbo lag with something like this. Then their is the extra weight issues. I don't care what a chassis dyno says, you will see the weight in the 1/4 mile times. Charles
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RSCamaro 24 April 2005 20:42:03 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:35:17 GMT, Charles Bendig <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote: Who offers this kit? Depending apon the application & costs, for cars >under 3,300 pounds.... Engeeners Brain, Inventors Budget...> Charles I read an article in CHP magazine about this subject. It seems to be on the level. Link below. Getting the turbo out from under the hood looks to be a great idea. http://www.ststurbo.com/home ...Ron -- 68' Camaro RS 88' Firebird Formula 00' Mustang GT Vert
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Cyrus Welch 25 April 2005 00:07:46 [ permanent link ]
	Charles Bendig wrote:> Cyrus Welch wrote:> Charles Bendig wrote:>> Cyrus Welch wrote:>>> matt borland wrote:>>>> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message>>>>> With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other>>>>>> then bore enlargement.>>>>> Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although>>>>> why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive>>>>> head design is beyond me.>>>>> -Matt- "...">>>>> And IIRC, actually stroking it is one of the only options (other >>>> than N2O, supercharger or turbo) you have. My understanding is that >>>> the casting doesn't allow for any significant increase in bore size >>>> without hitting the water jacket. Now, my understanding is that you >>>> could use the same supercharger or turbo on the 305 that you would >>>> on the 350 so you could put the forced induction on it and then >>>> later you could build a 350 to put in it. It would however have >>>> been interesting to see what one of those Coates ball valve systems >>>> could have done to a 305. It would have solved the valve shrouding >>>> problem that makes it so hard to get any real performance out of the >>>> poor little things.>>>> A few months ago I was talking with another local shop owner, who >>> does work turbos. We were talking about my V-8 Typhone 'Clone' Idea.>>> He showed me some data from where they did a 305 Twin Turbo S-10 pick >>> up for a customer. I was pretty impressed with the numbers. That S-10 >>> was in the 10's in the quarter mile. Yet it had been lightened a bit >>> body wise, and uses a tube frame. Not a driver by any means, it's a >>> trailer queen show truck with more in audio equipiment then some of >>> you ever invested in tools.>>> The problem with cost effective turbo systems for SBC's is they >>> don't exsist. Gail Banks stopped making them years ago, so unless you >>> want to spend big bucks for one, your left tying to peice it from >>> Honda Civic kits, and buick GN parts.>>> My idea is a simple one. Find a clean 4x4 Chevy/GMC S-10/S-15 >>> Blazer/Jimmy. Switch the parts needed to lower it to Typhoon ride >>> height, and handling. Convert it to AWD (a simple transfercase >>> replacement), use a 3/4 ton Full size front diff (to handle the >>> increased stresses). Use a 400 small block with Twin turbos (one per >>> cylinder bank) and TPI injection. Parts costs alone will probably run >>> over $19,000.>>> Charles>> Actually there is a kit out there from a company in Utah that actually >> replaces the muffler with a turbo. All the reports I have seen say >> that it works quite well. It may be far easier to adapt that unit >> than try something else. And I just saw an episode of horsepower tv >> where Banks said they were doing twin turbo stuff that would bolt onto >> almost any SBC. I might have to convert to TPI first, but it sounds >> like one or the other system may be doable.>> Any Turbo system with the impeller at that great a distance from the > engine is going to be a joke. First you have to take in to account the > decreased speed of the exhaust gasses the further from the engine they > get. Hot Gasses flow faster then gasses that have cooled. Not to mention > you will get 6 times the turbo lag with something like this. Then their > is the extra weight issues. I don't care what a chassis dyno says, you > will see the weight in the 1/4 mile times.> Charles One would think so. And this has always been the assumption. However all the reviews I have seen on this say this is not the case however take a look at this review http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_turbo/ about it. One of the things I seem to find on this thing is that it needs no intercooler as the air pipe to the engine provides that. It also seems the turbo itself is designed for running where it is, and since the temp is lower at that distance supposedly the turbo still works fine but will last longer due to the lower temps. -- Cy Welch Senior Programmer MetSYS Inc http://www.metsysinc.com
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Matt Borland 25 April 2005 05:41:28 [ permanent link ]
	"Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Vnjae.8331$0V2.9@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> matt borland wrote:> > "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> > With a 305 you do not have any options to change displacement other> >>then bore enlargement.> > Actually there is a 335" stroker kit available for the 305, although> > why anyone would stroke a 305 with that small bore and restrictive> > head design is beyond me.> > -Matt- "..."> Who offers this kit? Depending apon the application & costs, for cars> under 3,300 pounds.... Engeeners Brain, Inventors Budget...> Charles IIRC it's an Eagle kit. 99.99% sure. -Matt- "..."
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Guest 27 April 2005 04:08:13 [ permanent link ]
	В "The differtances are heads, bore sizes, cranks, crank journials, mains, ect. Internially they are different, and some items DO NOT interchange (IE 350 Crank in 305, or 350 heads on 305)." Actually, the 305 and 350 share the same crank from the factory 3.48". Also, the heads from a 350 will fit just fine... the only thing to concern yourself with is valve clearance. I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my 305 a few months ago, With a 305, you'll want to to limit the intake valve size to 1.94 (which is what most 350's came with from the factory anyway), unless you buy an angled aftermarket set (expensive). A 2.02 intake valve will obviously not clear the 305's limited bore though....
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Charles Bendig 27 April 2005 07:16:39 [ permanent link ]
	BowTieBubba@webtv.net wrote:> "The differtances are heads, bore sizes, cranks, crank journials, mains,> ect. Internially they are different, and some items DO NOT interchange> (IE 350 Crank in 305, or 350 heads on 305)."> Actually, the 305 and 350 share the same crank from the factory 3.48".> Also, the heads from a 350 will fit just fine... the only thing to> concern yourself with is valve clearance. I swapped a set of L98 heads> onto my 305 a few months ago,> With a 305, you'll want to to limit the intake valve size to 1.94 (which> is what most 350's came with from the factory anyway), unless you buy an> angled aftermarket set (expensive). A 2.02 intake valve will obviously> not clear the 305's limited bore though....> While the storke of 3.48 is the same, the Cranks are not. Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350 heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as well. Charles
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Matt Borland 27 April 2005 08:26:22 [ permanent link ]
	"Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350> heads. He has a point since the 305 heads have 58cc combustion chambers and the 350 heads are most likely 76cc, or at best 64cc before milling... -Matt- "..."
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Guest 27 April 2005 16:54:12 [ permanent link ]
	В "Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350 heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as well"... Oh my goodness, didn't mean to rain on you're parade Charles lol. Just to 'elaborate' though, I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my LO3, and tossed it's original swirl port design. The heads were cut, compression is good, and the block's bores are just fine. As for different cranks (in reference to 305 vs 350, as opposed to 1987-up one piece & 1986-down two piece, rear main seals), kindly explain yourself...
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Guest 27 April 2005 17:06:42 [ permanent link ]
	"He has a point since the 305 heads have 58cc combustion chambers and the 350 heads are most likely 76cc, or at best 64cc before milling..." Yeah, the L98 heads were milled. I wasn't seeking too high of a compression ratio (which is why I avoided the LB9's) because I'm supercharging it this summer....
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Charles Bendig 28 April 2005 06:11:02 [ permanent link ]
	BowTieBubba@webtv.net wrote:> "Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350> heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as> well"...> Oh my goodness, didn't mean to rain on you're parade Charles lol. Just> to 'elaborate' though, I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my LO3, and> tossed it's original swirl port design.> The heads were cut, compression is good, and the block's bores are just> fine.> As for different cranks (in reference to 305 vs 350, as opposed to> 1987-up one piece & 1986-down two piece, rear main seals), kindly> explain yourself... > First for 350 heads to clear on 305's you have to use the thicker type head gaskets. This allows extra clearance. Yes .010 makes a huge differance in such a case. As for the Cranks, not only do they carry different part numbers for the same years of 350 & 305, they are different. 305 Cranks do not have as thick throws, nor or they as strong as a 350 Crank. Yes 350 cranks come in a few flavors too (large vs small journial, forged vs cast). When it comes to making high power with a SBC 4 inch bore blocks with either type (factory or machine shop splayed) 4 bolt mains are perfered. Cost wise it costs less to build up a 350 (from a 'core' long block) then it does a 305. I have had people buy both 305 heads and 350 heads for their ideas of swaps. When things go wrong (not a problem with the parts I sold them, which were tested used replacement parts), jad these people come back to me. It's not my fault some 305 heads on some 350's will give you 15:1 compression ratio, or some 350 heads will give you as low as 6:1 on a 305. Nor is it my fault that 350 valves do not always clear the bores on 305. So with me, 305 heads are 305 heads, 350 heads are 350 heads. If I want a better then stock flow rate, I call Jegs or Summit and get a set of iron heads (dart & world products both make them). then send them to a machine shop and have the seats cut for the valves I chose, as well as have everything tested and assembled. Even new casting can fail a pressure check (rare yet does happen). Im sure if you wanted to spend the right amount of money, you could have a 305 sleaved for sixty over slug (piston) or larger. You could probably have the block and a 400 crank machined to work together, and even get some 2.02 intake valves to clear. (334 CID give or take a few). For that same amount of money Ill build a 383 with aftermaket heads, and a large (almost obseanly over cammed) bumpstick. Charles
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Terry 28 April 2005 10:38:35 [ permanent link ]
	"Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:WCXbe.11117$dh.2467@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> BowTieBubba@webtv.net wrote:> > "Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350> > heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as> > well"...> > Oh my goodness, didn't mean to rain on you're parade Charles lol. Just> > to 'elaborate' though, I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my LO3, and> > tossed it's original swirl port design.> > The heads were cut, compression is good, and the block's bores are just> > fine.> > As for different cranks (in reference to 305 vs 350, as opposed to> > 1987-up one piece & 1986-down two piece, rear main seals), kindly> > explain yourself...> > First for 350 heads to clear on 305's you have to use the thicker type> head gaskets. This allows extra clearance. Yes .010 makes a huge> differance in such a case.> As for the Cranks, not only do they carry different part numbers for> the same years of 350 & 305, they are different.> 305 Cranks do not have as thick throws, nor or they as strong as a 350> Crank. Yes 350 cranks come in a few flavors too (large vs small> journial, forged vs cast).> When it comes to making high power with a SBC 4 inch bore blocks with> either type (factory or machine shop splayed) 4 bolt mains are perfered.> Cost wise it costs less to build up a 350 (from a 'core' long block)> then it does a 305.> I have had people buy both 305 heads and 350 heads for their ideas of> swaps. When things go wrong (not a problem with the parts I sold them,> which were tested used replacement parts), jad these people come back to> me. It's not my fault some 305 heads on some 350's will give you 15:1> compression ratio, or some 350 heads will give you as low as 6:1 on a> 305. Nor is it my fault that 350 valves do not always clear the bores on> 305.> So with me, 305 heads are 305 heads, 350 heads are 350 heads. If I want> a better then stock flow rate, I call Jegs or Summit and get a set of> iron heads (dart & world products both make them). then send them to a> machine shop and have the seats cut for the valves I chose, as well as> have everything tested and assembled. Even new casting can fail a> pressure check (rare yet does happen).> Im sure if you wanted to spend the right amount of money, you could> have a 305 sleaved for sixty over slug (piston) or larger. You could> probably have the block and a 400 crank machined to work together, and> even get some 2.02 intake valves to clear. (334 CID give or take a few).> For that same amount of money Ill build a 383 with aftermaket heads, and> a large (almost obseanly over cammed) bumpstick.> Charles guys all I wanted to know was is can I take the tune port off a 89 305 and put it on a 86 350 will the bolt holes line up ?
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Charles Bendig 28 April 2005 19:44:22 [ permanent link ]
	Terry wrote:> "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:WCXbe.11117$dh.2467@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> BowTieBubba@webtv.net wrote:>> "Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350>>>heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as>>>well"...>>> Oh my goodness, didn't mean to rain on you're parade Charles lol. Just>>>to 'elaborate' though, I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my LO3, and>>>tossed it's original swirl port design.>>> The heads were cut, compression is good, and the block's bores are just>>>fine.>>> As for different cranks (in reference to 305 vs 350, as opposed to>>>1987-up one piece & 1986-down two piece, rear main seals), kindly>>>explain yourself...>>> First for 350 heads to clear on 305's you have to use the thicker type>>head gaskets. This allows extra clearance. Yes .010 makes a huge>>differance in such a case.>> As for the Cranks, not only do they carry different part numbers for>>the same years of 350 & 305, they are different.>> 305 Cranks do not have as thick throws, nor or they as strong as a 350>>Crank. Yes 350 cranks come in a few flavors too (large vs small>>journial, forged vs cast).>> When it comes to making high power with a SBC 4 inch bore blocks with>>either type (factory or machine shop splayed) 4 bolt mains are perfered.>>Cost wise it costs less to build up a 350 (from a 'core' long block)>>then it does a 305.>> I have had people buy both 305 heads and 350 heads for their ideas of>>swaps. When things go wrong (not a problem with the parts I sold them,>>which were tested used replacement parts), jad these people come back to>>me. It's not my fault some 305 heads on some 350's will give you 15:1>>compression ratio, or some 350 heads will give you as low as 6:1 on a>>305. Nor is it my fault that 350 valves do not always clear the bores on>>305.>> So with me, 305 heads are 305 heads, 350 heads are 350 heads. If I want>>a better then stock flow rate, I call Jegs or Summit and get a set of>>iron heads (dart & world products both make them). then send them to a>>machine shop and have the seats cut for the valves I chose, as well as>>have everything tested and assembled. Even new casting can fail a>>pressure check (rare yet does happen).>> Im sure if you wanted to spend the right amount of money, you could>>have a 305 sleaved for sixty over slug (piston) or larger. You could>>probably have the block and a 400 crank machined to work together, and>>even get some 2.02 intake valves to clear. (334 CID give or take a few).>>For that same amount of money Ill build a 383 with aftermaket heads, and>>a large (almost obseanly over cammed) bumpstick.>>Charles> guys all I wanted to know was is can I take the tune port off a 89 305 and> put it on a 86 350 will the bolt holes line up ?> Intake wise, Yes a 305 and a 350 use the same stuff. Yet there is a Year difference in Head type. 1986 and previous heads have a different angle to the bolt holes then 1987 and later heads, regaurdless of small block displacement. You can angle the holes out and have every thing work. Charles
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Terry 28 April 2005 22:44:09 [ permanent link ]
	oops i guess i forgot to mention it was a big block. "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:qx7ce.931$Eg.649@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> Terry wrote:> > "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message> > news:WCXbe.11117$dh.2467@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> > BowTieBubba@webtv.net wrote:> >> "Also I hope you enjoy a compression ratio of about 7:1 with your 350> >>>heads. If you used the wrong head gaskets, enjoy the damaged bores as> >>>well"...> >>> Oh my goodness, didn't mean to rain on you're parade Charles lol. Just> >>>to 'elaborate' though, I swapped a set of L98 heads onto my LO3, and> >>>tossed it's original swirl port design.> >>> The heads were cut, compression is good, and the block's bores are just> >>>fine.> >>> As for different cranks (in reference to 305 vs 350, as opposed to> >>>1987-up one piece & 1986-down two piece, rear main seals), kindly> >>>explain yourself...> >>> First for 350 heads to clear on 305's you have to use the thicker type> >>head gaskets. This allows extra clearance. Yes .010 makes a huge> >>differance in such a case.> >> As for the Cranks, not only do they carry different part numbers for> >>the same years of 350 & 305, they are different.> >> 305 Cranks do not have as thick throws, nor or they as strong as a 350> >>Crank. Yes 350 cranks come in a few flavors too (large vs small> >>journial, forged vs cast).> >> When it comes to making high power with a SBC 4 inch bore blocks with> >>either type (factory or machine shop splayed) 4 bolt mains are perfered.> >>Cost wise it costs less to build up a 350 (from a 'core' long block)> >>then it does a 305.> >> I have had people buy both 305 heads and 350 heads for their ideas of> >>swaps. When things go wrong (not a problem with the parts I sold them,> >>which were tested used replacement parts), jad these people come back to> >>me. It's not my fault some 305 heads on some 350's will give you 15:1> >>compression ratio, or some 350 heads will give you as low as 6:1 on a> >>305. Nor is it my fault that 350 valves do not always clear the bores on> >>305.> >> So with me, 305 heads are 305 heads, 350 heads are 350 heads. If I want> >>a better then stock flow rate, I call Jegs or Summit and get a set of> >>iron heads (dart & world products both make them). then send them to a> >>machine shop and have the seats cut for the valves I chose, as well as> >>have everything tested and assembled. Even new casting can fail a> >>pressure check (rare yet does happen).> >> Im sure if you wanted to spend the right amount of money, you could> >>have a 305 sleaved for sixty over slug (piston) or larger. You could> >>probably have the block and a 400 crank machined to work together, and> >>even get some 2.02 intake valves to clear. (334 CID give or take a few).> >>For that same amount of money Ill build a 383 with aftermaket heads, and> >>a large (almost obseanly over cammed) bumpstick.> >>Charles> > guys all I wanted to know was is can I take the tune port off a 89 305 put it on a 86 350 will the bolt holes line up ?> > Intake wise, Yes a 305 and a 350 use the same stuff. Yet there is a> Year difference in Head type. 1986 and previous heads have a different> angle to the bolt holes then 1987 and later heads, regaurdless of small> block displacement.> You can angle the holes out and have every thing work.> Charles
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RSCamaro 29 April 2005 01:27:22 [ permanent link ]
	On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:44:09 -0700, "Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote: oops i guess i forgot to mention it was a big block. Huh? Whacu talkin' bout Willis? 366 (truck), 396, 402, 427, 454, and 502. Which big block were you talking about? ...Ron -- 68' Camaro RS 88' Firebird Formula 00' Mustang GT Vert
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Terry 29 April 2005 06:53:43 [ permanent link ]
	thats just what I have been told I'll start from the beginng I bought a 1987 firebird was supposed to have a 305 in it but when i went to replace the motor cause of a rod knock I find out it is not a 305 but a 350 so i got a new 350 motor to put in (long block) well when i went to put the oil pan on from other motor it didn't not fit cause it was not wide enough so kragen told me it was a big block...I guess I should have known from experience not to take there word for ___ .. so it is not a big block? why was pan bigger? this motor supposely not one made in mexico ..... 1989 iroc 1987 firebird "RSCamaro" <rscamero@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4271548d.677550984@news.verizon.net...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:44:09 -0700, "Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote:> oops i guess i forgot to mention it was a big block.> Huh? Whacu talkin' bout Willis? 366 (truck), 396, 402, 427, 454, and> 502. Which big block were you talking about?> ...Ron> --> 68' Camaro RS> 88' Firebird Formula> 00' Mustang GT Vert
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Matt Borland 29 April 2005 07:47:57 [ permanent link ]
	"Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote in message news:Vkhce.600$0Z.148@fed1read02...> thats just what I have been told I'll start from the beginng> I bought a 1987 firebird was supposed to have a 305 in it but when i went> to replace the motor cause of a rod knock I find out it is not a 305 but a> 350 so i got a new 350 motor to put in (long block) well when i went to the oil pan on from other motor it didn't not fit cause it was not wide> enough so kragen told me it was a big block...I guess I should have known> from experience not to take there word for ___ .. so it is not a big block?> why was pan bigger? this motor supposely not one made in mexico .....> 1989 iroc> 1987 firebird Whoa whoa whoa, let's take a second here. 4 bolts per valve cover = small block. (centerbolt or perimeter, regardless) More than that, most likely big block Chevy motor. If it's a big block then the small block stuff WILL NOT fit. At that point you'll just have to buy big block parts outright. Aside from distributors I can't think of anything that interchanges between big and small block Chevy. There are a couple small pieces that do, but nothing important. See what you really have, then check back with us. -Matt- "..."
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Terry 29 April 2005 17:11:52 [ permanent link ]
	"matt borland" <mborland@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:N7ice.1323$Eg.343@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> "Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote in message news:Vkhce.600$0Z.148@fed1read02...> > thats just what I have been told I'll start from the beginng> > I bought a 1987 firebird was supposed to have a 305 in it but when i went> > to replace the motor cause of a rod knock I find out it is not a 305 but 350 so i got a new 350 motor to put in (long block) well when i went to> put> > the oil pan on from other motor it didn't not fit cause it was not wide> > enough so kragen told me it was a big block...I guess I should have known> > from experience not to take there word for ___ .. so it is not a big> block?> > why was pan bigger? this motor supposely not one made in mexico .....> > 1989 iroc> > 1987 firebird> Whoa whoa whoa, let's take a second here.> 4 bolts per valve cover = small block. (centerbolt or perimeter, regardless)> More than that, most likely big block Chevy motor.> If it's a big block then the small block stuff WILL NOT fit.> At that point you'll just have to buy big block parts outright. Aside> from distributors I can't think of anything that interchanges between> big and small block Chevy. There are a couple small pieces that do,> but nothing important.> See what you really have, then check back with us.> -Matt- "..."> ok it only has 4 bolts for valve cover on the perimeter, then why was pan bigger? or wider then the other 350 that was in it . That and the flywheel didn't not match up to new motor
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Matt Borland 29 April 2005 19:11:55 [ permanent link ]
	"Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote in message ok it only has 4 bolts for valve cover on the perimeter, then why was bigger? or wider then the other 350 that was in it .> That and the flywheel didn't not match up to new motor There are a couple of other things you need to find out to identify this engine, and we'll need to know a little about the old engine too. One piece or two piece rear main seal? Dipstick on driver's or passenger side? 153 or 168 tooth flywheel? It sounds like at least the heads if not the whole engine in both cases are 85-earlier models. If not, then you have a parts interchange problem due to a couple of running changes in small block Chevy over the years. You might have an '87-up block in one case and a pre-'80 block in the other, or some other mismatch that just requires some extra thought to make work. There are a couple different bolt patterns on flexplates and a couple different pans. It shouldn't be this hard to figure out, but parts stores aren't what they used to be, so you end up with the added confusion of guys talking out their @ss when they don't really know the answer to your tech questions. Let me know what you find and we'll go from there. Good luck. -Matt- "..."
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Charles Bendig 29 April 2005 20:08:24 [ permanent link ]
	Terry wrote:> thats just what I have been told I'll start from the beginng> I bought a 1987 firebird was supposed to have a 305 in it but when i went> to replace the motor cause of a rod knock I find out it is not a 305 but a> 350 so i got a new 350 motor to put in (long block) well when i went to put> the oil pan on from other motor it didn't not fit cause it was not wide> enough so kragen told me it was a big block...I guess I should have known> from experience not to take there word for ___ .. so it is not a big block?> why was pan bigger? this motor supposely not one made in mexico .....> 1989 iroc> 1987 firebird> "RSCamaro" <rscamero@hotmail.com> wrote in message> news:4271548d.677550984@news.verizon.net...> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:44:09 -0700, "Terry" <tnt99@cox.net> wrote:>> oops i guess i forgot to mention it was a big block.>> Huh? Whacu talkin' bout Willis? 366 (truck), 396, 402, 427, 454, and>>502. Which big block were you talking about?>> ...Ron>>-->>68' Camaro RS>>88' Firebird Formula>>00' Mustang GT Vert> There is no way you can confuse a Big Block with a 350 Small Block. Especially with the cylinder heads on the engine! If you do indead have a BBC, the valve lay-out it's self will look compleatly different from that of the SBC. SBC rocker arms are all in a line, both intake and exhaust. BBC are splaid, intake at one angle, exhaust at another, so the rocker arms sit staggared. Not all Small Blocks take the same oil pan. One peice rear seal blocks take a different pan then two peice rear seal block. Drivers side VS Passenger side dipstick makes a huge differance as well. Some aftermaket SBC blocks have a expanded skirt area and take either BBC, Olds, or Aftermarket ONLY oil pans. Post the casting numbers off both engines. Ill see if I can identify both for you. Charles
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thund3rstruck_n0i@otmail.comREMOVE 2 May 2005 03:22:25 [ permanent link ]
	Plus, the xfer case and ft diff is, IMO, added weight for a vehicle that's probably going to be trailer-only. You (in general) might get a little better timing out of a rwd only S10/15/Blazer... NOI "Charles Bendig" <rarepartshunter@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ciJae.2$Eg.0@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...> Any Turbo system with the impeller at that great a distance from the> engine is going to be a joke. First you have to take in to account the> decreased speed of the exhaust gasses the further from the engine they> get. Hot Gasses flow faster then gasses that have cooled. Not to mention> you will get 6 times the turbo lag with something like this. Then their> is the extra weight issues. I don't care what a chassis dyno says, you> will see the weight in the 1/4 mile times.> Charles
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Thund3rstruck_n0i 10 May 2005 05:00:15 [ permanent link ]
	Charles Bendig spilled my beer when they jumped on the table and proclaimed in <Uhffe.17402$Ib4.3930@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>> I have a Off Road truck that I trailer to and from the trails. Why?> because I aint scared to break it, roll it, or smash it. Yet when im not> going out trail driving with it, I drive it on the streets. When my dad used to do some SCCA racing, he used to prep his car at home and trailer it the 3 hours or more to the track. He did that because it saved time there, and he always was worried about having to tow it that distance home. Then one day he exploded a piston. NOI
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