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CarGuru > Open discussion > LeSabre doesn't start 4 May 2005 21:03:55
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LeSabre doesn't start

Dominic 22 April 2005 23:44:27
 94 Buick LeSabre

- New Spark Plugs and Wires
- New Crankshaft and Camshaft Sensors
- Replaced Ignition Module and Coils with used working ones
- Tried Computer from another LeSabre (same number) Switching PROM
- Fuel pressure OK
- Compression OK on all cylinders
- Don't see any vacuum leeks
- I see spark and Injectors spraying

But doesn't start! It turns but no signs of starting.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dominic



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Add comment
Peter D . Hipson 23 April 2005 02:38:34 [ permanent link ]
 On 22 Apr 2005 19:44:27 GMT, "Dominic" <dominic@uncensored­.com> wrote:
94 Buick LeSabre>
- New Spark Plugs and Wires>- New Crankshaft and Camshaft Sensors>- Replaced Ignition Module and Coils with used working ones>- Tried Computer from another LeSabre (same number) Switching PROM>- Fuel pressure OK>- Compression OK on all cylinders

What is the compression? Give the numbers for all cylinders.

When you pull the plugs after trying to start, do they smell of gas?

Nice to have spark, but is it coming at the right time?
Add comment
Peter D . Hipson 23 April 2005 02:48:02 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:12:12 -0400, "Alpha One"
<alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote:

Compression is (#1 to #6) 170, 165, 170, 150, 150 and 136 psi. Fuel pressure >is 42 psi. The Ignition Module and Coils I tryed, work fine in the other >car. The car worked fine before it went bananas.>

The compression numbers are acceptable, #6 is a tad low, but won't
keep it from starting. Are you sure the injectors are working? Did you
try a noid light on them? Do the plugs smell of fuel when it won't
start?
Add comment
Dominic 23 April 2005 03:58:15 [ permanent link ]
 A bit closer to solving the problem. If I spray starter fluid into the
intake it will try to start. But I measured the fuel pressure again while
cranking and it stays at abou 45psi. I don't have the Noid Lite. I went to
two auto parts place and they didn't have it.


"Peter D. Hipson" <phipson@deletethis­word.darkstar.mv.com­> wrote in message
news:h8vi61lbs6bpnb­l8gj46h9ra24npal2sjg­@4ax.com...> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:12:12 -0400, "Alpha One"> <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote:>
Compression is (#1 to #6) 170, 165, 170, 150, 150 and 136 psi. Fuel >>pressure>>is 42 psi. The Ignition Module and Coils I tryed, work fine in the other>>car. The car worked fine before it went bananas.>>
The compression numbers are acceptable, #6 is a tad low, but won't> keep it from starting. Are you sure the injectors are working? Did you> try a noid light on them? Do the plugs smell of fuel when it won't> start?



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Add comment
Peter D . Hipson 23 April 2005 17:08:07 [ permanent link ]
 On 22 Apr 2005 23:58:15 GMT, "Dominic" <dominic@uncensored­.com> wrote:
A bit closer to solving the problem. If I spray starter fluid into the >intake it will try to start. But I measured the fuel pressure again while >cranking and it stays at abou 45psi. I don't have the Noid Lite. I went to >two auto parts place and they didn't have it.>

It looks like the injectors are not firing. Try Northern Auto Parts
(online) and they should have noid lights. Have you done a scan of the
ODBI system to see if any codes are being set?
Add comment
Alpha One 23 April 2005 18:56:54 [ permanent link ]
 
"Peter D. Hipson" <phipson@deletethis­word.darkstar.mv.com­> wrote in message
news:i2ik61l43rflcr­o86qsuko5644e9k7nu2v­@4ax.com...> On 22 Apr 2005 23:58:15 GMT, "Dominic" <dominic@uncensored­.com> wrote:>
A bit closer to solving the problem. If I spray starter fluid into the>>intake it will try to start. But I measured the fuel pressure again while>>cranking and it stays at abou 45psi. I don't have the Noid Lite. I went to>>two auto parts place and they didn't have it.>>
It looks like the injectors are not firing. Try Northern Auto Parts> (online) and they should have noid lights. Have you done a scan of the> ODBI system to see if any codes are being set?

No codes given. This car is not ODBII yet, but I have the ScanTool. When the
car was still running but hesitating already, it set the code for the EGR. I
reset the codes them and it didn't came back. A few day later it stopped
completely but no codes.



Add comment
Alpha One 23 April 2005 20:56:00 [ permanent link ]
 I just tested the injector's harness with the Noid Lights and none of them
as a
pulse. What could be causing that?

"Peter D. Hipson" <phipson@deletethis­word.darkstar.mv.com­> wrote in message
news:i2ik61l43rflcr­o86qsuko5644e9k7nu2v­@4ax.com...> On 22 Apr 2005 23:58:15 GMT, "Dominic" <dominic@uncensored­.com> wrote:>
A bit closer to solving the problem. If I spray starter fluid into the>>intake it will try to start. But I measured the fuel pressure again while>>cranking and it stays at abou 45psi. I don't have the Noid Lite. I went to>>two auto parts place and they didn't have it.>>
It looks like the injectors are not firing. Try Northern Auto Parts> (online) and they should have noid lights. Have you done a scan of the> ODBI system to see if any codes are being set?



Add comment
Alpha One 24 April 2005 01:40:52 [ permanent link ]
 
"Alpha One" <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote in message
news:C6vae.3064$RP1­.858@fe10.lga...>I just tested the injector's harness with the Noid Lights and none of them>as a> pulse. What could be causing that?>

This is getting confusing. :-)­ The car is back to the old problem. The not
starting condition was a fuse under the dashboard next to the globe
compartment. Now that it starts, if does what it was doing before, which is,
cylinder 5 and 6 misfire. But 6 more that 5, sometimes it's the other way
around. Rarely, 2 also misfires a little.

Where I see the misfiring it's with my ScanTool. If I listen to the
injectors with a stethoscope I hear them clicking and they never miss. When
I looked at injector it sprayed. If I remove the spark plug wire and test it
looking at the spark, it never fail to spark. But I feel the engine running
rough. I switched injector 6 with another and no difference. I also switch
spark plugs 5 and 6 with others and no difference, still 6 and 5 misfire the
worst.

Could the EGR or other sensor cause this to happen?

- New Spark Plugs and Wires
- New Crankshaft and Camshaft Sensors
- Replaced Ignition Module and Coils with used working ones
- Tried Computer from another LeSabre (same number) Switching PROM
- Fuel pressure: 44 psi
- Compression on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6: 150, 170, 150, 165, 135, 170
- Don't see any vacuum leeks



Add comment
Peter D . Hipson 24 April 2005 16:57:29 [ permanent link ]
 

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:40:52 -0400, "Alpha One"
<alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote:
"Alpha One" <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote in message>news:C6vae.­3064$RP1.858@fe10.lg­a...
This is getting confusing. :-)­ The car is back to the old problem. The not>starting condition was a fuse under the dashboard next to the globe>compartment. Now that it starts, if does what it was doing before, which is,>cylinder 5 and 6 misfire. But 6 more that 5, sometimes it's the other way>around. Rarely, 2 also misfires a little.>

the 5 and 6 problem could be anything, really. The lower compression
in 5 might be a factor (I don't think so, if it was under 100, yes,
but 135 should be OK) Run it for a while (week or so) if you can, and
then pull the plugs. Do 5 and 6 look the same as the others? (same
color and deposits?) New plug wires, right?
Add comment
Alpha One 24 April 2005 20:19:31 [ permanent link ]
 What about the timing chain loose or worn out?


"Peter D. Hipson" <phipson@deletethis­word.darkstar.mv.com­> wrote in message
news:6n5n61la0tn8c5­s7v363ub23vgj9mgbm52­@4ax.com...>
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:40:52 -0400, "Alpha One"> <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote:>
"Alpha One" <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote in message>>news:C6vae­.3064$RP1.858@fe10.l­ga...>
This is getting confusing. :-)­ The car is back to the old problem. The not>>starting condition was a fuse under the dashboard next to the globe>>compartment.­ Now that it starts, if does what it was doing before, which >>is,>>cylinder 5 and 6 misfire. But 6 more that 5, sometimes it's the other way>>around. Rarely, 2 also misfires a little.>>
the 5 and 6 problem could be anything, really. The lower compression> in 5 might be a factor (I don't think so, if it was under 100, yes,> but 135 should be OK) Run it for a while (week or so) if you can, and> then pull the plugs. Do 5 and 6 look the same as the others? (same> color and deposits?) New plug wires, right?


Add comment
Alpha One 24 April 2005 23:48:13 [ permanent link ]
 I did an expriment. I disconnected one injector at a time and cheched which
cylinders missfired with my ScanTool. Here are the results:

#1 disconnected ---> #2 misfired
#2 disconnected ---> #1 misfired
#3 disconnected ---> #6 misfired
#4 disconnected ---> #5 misfired
#5 disconnected ---> #4 misfired
#6 disconnected ---> #3 misfired (and #2 a couple of times)

I checked the spark plug wires and they connect each coil to the right spark
plug.

The tool, when you press the key to start recording, it reads data for
about 9 seconds, plus about 5 seconds from before, and plays it back in 13
frames taken about, more or less, 1 second apart. Then I can scroll up and
down through it.

Besides the usual error 300, ramdom misfiring, today I also got the error
406, pindle position error, EGR.


Add comment
Peter D . Hipson 25 April 2005 18:12:29 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:48:13 -0400, "Alpha One"
<alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote:
I did an expriment. I disconnected one injector at a time and cheched which >cylinders missfired with my ScanTool. Here are the results:>
#1 disconnected ---> #2 misfired>#2 disconnected ---> #1 misfired>#3 disconnected ---> #6 misfired>#4 disconnected ---> #5 misfired>#5 disconnected ---> #4 misfired>#6 disconnected ---> #3 misfired (and #2 a couple of times)>
I checked the spark plug wires and they connect each coil to the right spark >plug.>
The tool, when you press the key to start recording, it reads data for >about 9 seconds, plus about 5 seconds from before, and plays it back in 13 >frames taken about, more or less, 1 second apart. Then I can scroll up and >down through it.>
Besides the usual error 300, ramdom misfiring, today I also got the error >406, pindle position error, EGR. >

I'm basically out of ideas... (Sorry) but as someone else suggested,
check cam timing. Your missfire experiment was interesting, consider
trying it on a vehicle that is running OK, and see what results you
get.

Swap #1 injector with #3.
Swap #2 injector with #4

see what happens...

Add comment
Sdlomi2 4 May 2005 21:03:55 [ permanent link ]
 
"Alpha One" <alphaone@optonline­.net> wrote in message
news:6KSae.4020$RP1­.2861@fe10.lga...> I did an expriment. I disconnected one injector at a time and cheched
which> cylinders missfired with my ScanTool. Here are the results:>
#1 disconnected ---> #2 misfired> #2 disconnected ---> #1 misfired> #3 disconnected ---> #6 misfired> #4 disconnected ---> #5 misfired> #5 disconnected ---> #4 misfired> #6 disconnected ---> #3 misfired (and #2 a couple of times)>
I checked the spark plug wires and they connect each coil to the right
spark> plug.>
The tool, when you press the key to start recording, it reads data for> about 9 seconds, plus about 5 seconds from before, and plays it back in 13> frames taken about, more or less, 1 second apart. Then I can scroll up and> down through it.>
Besides the usual error 300, ramdom misfiring, today I also got the error> 406, pindle position error, EGR.>
Since you obviously enjoy experimenting(as do I) and since you have a
quite similar car to try parts from, you might try swapping the plug wires.
Assuming you bought after-market new wires for the Buick, they may be
defective. Seen it happen more times than one when buying new,
other-than-GM wires. Won't cost anything other than your time; and it might
just solve your dilemna. HTH as I've seen it do for others' cars. s


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CarGuru > Open discussion > LeSabre doesn't start 4 May 2005 21:03:55
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