'93 Grand Voyager, 3.0L, 3 speed auto (Dad used to say it was the four speed>O/D, but it doesn't have O/D on the shifter, cruising at 100kph is at around>3k revs, and I only feel three shifts so...). I know some trannies in these>vans is known to drop at 180k kms on the dot, I'm sitting at 178k and>getting worried. The 1-2 shift has always been rough since new, now over the>past six months or so the 2-1 downshift has been grabbing. Do I have>problems on the horizon? I'm planning on dropping the pan and changing the>fluid and filter the next chance I get. I just haven't heard of an auto>grabbing on it's way out before.>

The 3 speed is pretty reliable, at least compared to the 4 speed. Old> fluid can make them shift pretty rough - changing the fluid may well> get rid of the problem.

The O/D is not on the shifter. It's a switch to the right because it's> electronic, that is, an electronic transmission, controlled by a TCM or> Transmission Control Module, and not a selectable gear. The TCM is a > computer> which can have its firmware upgraded by the dealer. It's easy to miss the> switch. Took me a long time and I also erroneously thought I did not have > a> 4-speed O/D tranny.>

You might want to consider checking to make sure you have the latest > firmware> if, I repeat, if this is the case with you. In other threads, in the last > few> weeks, I spelled out the modules and the firmware versions.>

Are you thinking the shifter will say 1 2 D O/D or something like that? It > does> not. I made that mistake too. The VIN might sort this out for you. Don't > know.>

In my case, the firmware solved the very uncomfortable shudder of the> transmission beginning to self-destruct because the clutch was engaging > too> slowly the torque converter. A software mistake with the early > transmissions> that was found and first corrected around 1995 or so in the tech reports.>

I had the pan dropped, the filter replaced with OEM, and used ATF+3 and > all the> previous problems immediately went away. To upgrade the computer is > relatively> inexpensive. In fact, the whole thing at a super good dealer was around > $130> USD. But be careful. Another dealer could easily charge double and maybe > not do> such a hot job. Ask around. In my area, I could not find a non-dealer > mechanic> who really knew or wanted to be bothered by all this which requires > special> cables and the equipment to flash the EEPROM in the TCM in the pre-1995> Voyagers. And my local dealer was a bit of a jerk so I found a distant > dealer> who was great, from cartalk.com. Heh, what's a guy going to do when he > can't> get a straight answer?>

Oh, when the car goes into O/D, the engine actually slows down as I just> discussed tonight, as a matter of fact. Paradoxically, the highest gear > does> not need a very fast engine since it's directly coupled. That's why > Over-Drive> works so well in efficiency. Now am I right or do I have to go into > hiding?>

And I also only feel three shifts. But a fellow I was discussing this with > who> used to fly airplanes, so is careful about engines obviously, and be an> electronics repairman said that the fourth shift is when the engine slows > down.> So it's not obvious and even counter-intuitive. In fact, it's the obvious > of> what you might expect going into fourth gear.>

How am I doing? On target or not even in the universe?>

...And I also only feel three shifts. But a fellow I was discussing this with who> used to fly airplanes, so is careful about engines obviously, and be an> electronics repairman said that the fourth shift is when the engine slows down.> So it's not obvious and even counter-intuitive. In fact, it's the obvious of> what you might expect going into fourth gear.>

How am I doing? On target or not even in the universe?

'93 Grand Voyager, 3.0L, 3 speed auto (Dad used to say it was the four> speed O/D, but it doesn't have O/D on the shifter, cruising at 100kph is> at around 3k revs, and I only feel three shifts so...).

I know some trannies in these vans is known to drop at 180k kms on the> dot,

The 1-2 shift has always been rough since new

now over the past six months or so the 2-1 downshift has been grabbing.

Do I have problems on the horizon?

He won't have the switch even if it's a 4 spd. I believe it may be as he> says feels 3 shifts 1-2 = 1 2-3 =2 3-4 = 3. If it was a 3spd it would only> be 2 shifts.> Larry

I've heard it several times from several sources....

Grabbing. Upon deceleration (foot off the gas, on the brake) when the> tranny downshifts to first the tranny grabs, the revs drop a few hundred> rmp, the vehicle lurches forward a bit due to the engine acting as a> brake in this case. Grabbing.

To be honest, not very often.

Lots of people heard "The earth is flat" from lots of sources lots of> times.

Sounds like a kickdown cable and band adjustment issue.

Do so now.

The 4-speed auto shift quadrant says "P R N D 3 L".

The 3-speed auto shift quadrant says "P R N D 2 1".

The "3 shifts" you feel could either be 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, or could be 1-2,> 2-3, and the torque converter locking up in 3.

Does this mean that "D" represents exactly what?> The full spectrum, whatever that might be, from 1 to 4?

Or from 1 to 3 and Overdrive then which is the torque converter lockup?

And the "3" is used for what used to be the "2"

Or is L really 1 and maybe 2?

"4" is not automatically Overdrive?

So if it were a 4 speed plus Overdrive, is that then really a "5-speed"> ???

No, 3 is used to prevent the trans from shifting into 4th (overdrive), and> it also raises the 1-2 and 2-3 shift points and the road speed at which> TC lockup occurs.

4th is an overdrive gear. Do you understand what that means?

DS

<nospam.clare.nce@­sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message>news:agq061­h6bm1a9oedto1ithnenk­mltho6ih@4ax.com...>­> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:41:03 -0400, "SBlackfoot">> <trypticon@sympatic­o.remove.ca> wrote:>>

The O/D is not on the shifter. It's a switch to the right because it's>electronic, that is, an electronic transmission, controlled by a TCM or>Transmission Control Module, and not a selectable gear. The TCM is a computer>which can have its firmware upgraded by the dealer. It's easy to miss the>switch. Took me a long time and I also erroneously thought I did not have a>4-speed O/D tranny.>

You might want to consider checking to make sure you have the latest firmware>if, I repeat, if this is the case with you. In other threads, in the last few>weeks, I spelled out the modules and the firmware versions.>

Are you thinking the shifter will say 1 2 D O/D or something like that? It does>not. I made that mistake too. The VIN might sort this out for you. Don't know.>

In my case, the firmware solved the very uncomfortable shudder of the>transmission beginning to self-destruct because the clutch was engaging too>slowly the torque converter. A software mistake with the early transmissions>that was found and first corrected around 1995 or so in the tech reports.>

I had the pan dropped, the filter replaced with OEM, and used ATF+3 and all the>previous problems immediately went away. To upgrade the computer is relatively>inexpens­ive. In fact, the whole thing at a super good dealer was around $130>USD. But be careful. Another dealer could easily charge double and maybe not do>such a hot job. Ask around. In my area, I could not find a non-dealer mechanic>who really knew or wanted to be bothered by all this which requires special>cables and the equipment to flash the EEPROM in the TCM in the pre-1995>Voyagers. And my local dealer was a bit of a jerk so I found a distant dealer>who was great, from cartalk.com. Heh, what's a guy going to do when he can't>get a straight answer?>

Oh, when the car goes into O/D, the engine actually slows down as I just>discussed tonight, as a matter of fact. Paradoxically, the highest gear does>not need a very fast engine since it's directly coupled. That's why Over-Drive>works so well in efficiency. Now am I right or do I have to go into hiding?>

And I also only feel three shifts. But a fellow I was discussing this with who>used to fly airplanes, so is careful about engines obviously, and be an>electronics repairman said that the fourth shift is when the engine slows down.>So it's not obvious and even counter-intuitive. In fact, it's the obvious of>what you might expect going into fourth gear.

How am I doing? On target or not even in the universe?>

He won't have the switch even if it's a 4 spd. I believe it may be as he >says feels 3 shifts 1-2 = 1 2-3 =2 3-4 = 3. If it was a 3spd it would only >be 2 shifts.

Larry>"Treeline" <treeline12345@yaho­o.com> wrote in message >news:S038e.23706$1­p4.13558@trndny06...­>> <nospam.clare.nce@s­ny.der.on.ca> wrote in message>> news:agq061h6bm1a9o­edto1ithnenkmltho6ih­@4ax.com...>>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:41:03 -0400, "SBlackfoot">>> <trypticon@sympatic­o.remove.ca> wrote:>>>

MOST back then had the OD on the shift quadrant. Pre OBD2 most> firmware was not upgradeable.

So it's not possible to start the car in second gear as it used to be with> "2"

So they just dropped the snow/ice gear? Or is it "3" since it raises the> shift points?

Let's see if I can remember this stuff again.> 4th appears to spin the drive wheels rather fast compared to engine speed,> hence the name, overdrive.

I get this confused with torque converter which is locking the tranny to> the drive wheels

in whatever gear is being used except for first gear?

A torque converter lockup in 4th gear would produce the highest gear> drive wheel ratio compared to engine speed?

Actually the Chrysler "Autostick" 4 speed transmission

<nospam.clare.nce@­sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message>news:udp361­t8mq1h6efb6d35mfn4ut­0o8nhf52@4ax.com...>­

I am not sure what you mean by the above.>My gear selector says "P R N D 3 L" - where would be the OD? Is that not>embedded in the "D" which means gears 1 through 4 with 4 being OD?

There is an electronic switch, below the rear windshield wipers' switches,>which allows the O/D to be turned off. This is on a 1994.>

About Pre OBD2, that depends. The rough rule of thumb is that if the TCM has>dual fins, then it has an EEPROM instead of an EPROM, hence, flash or firmware>upgradeabl­e. The vans in my range, pre-1995, require a special harness to be>attached to the device which does the readings and the upgrades. The extra>equipment required for the upgrading is why I decided to just go to the dealer,>a big dealer, who would have all these extra, older devices and capabilities.>It's all a bit confusing but I posted a list of years and what engines and body>styles can be upgraded going way back, to 1989? It's from the TSB's. Since the>TCM is obviously electronic and EEPROMs had been around for some time before>this, it's not unusual to find a TCM and A604 tranny with a flashable TCM.>

Some of the cars had EPROMs instead of EEPROMs, so I don't know what they did.>Maybe they did not need any firmware upgrades. If they did, they would have had>to purchase, I assume, an upgraded TCM which is relatively expensive compared>to flashing the EEPROM.>

Right. I tend not to pay much attention to "manu-matic" shifters, so I> forgot to mention it.

Is the D in a "box" The last 4 speed Chrysler I drove had the D in> the "box" (which is really an "O" - ) signifying OverDrive. My 3 speed> did not.

Until proven otherwise. ;) Right or wrong, it's still a well documented> issue (or non-issue, as the case may very well be).

For four speeds maybe, but I haven't heard it for the 3 speeds.

I am not sure what you mean by the above.> My gear selector says "P R N D 3 L" - where would be the OD? Is that not> embedded in the "D" which means gears 1 through 4 with 4 being OD?

I've heard it several times from several sources....

So it's not possible to start the car in second gear as it used to be with> "2" presumably for snowy or ice conditions where less torque was> preferable.

Let's see if I can remember this stuff again.> 4th appears to spin the drive wheels rather fast compared to engine speed,> hence the name, overdrive.

I get this confused with torque converter which> is locking the tranny to the drive wheels in whatever gear is being used> except for first gear?

"Several sources" told Columbus the world was flat, too.

<nospam.clare.nce@­sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message>news:upe561­p6jtqua5htt27qm13efi­mid21m7o@4ax.com...>­

The D is not in a box. It's just a regular, old-fashioned, new-fashioned>kind of D. I gather in your last 4 speed you have to put the car into>D with the box? Or if you put it in D it signified all the gears, including>Overdrive­?

If you can figure out what I just asked, well, good for you. I can't even>bear to re-read what I just posted.>

I think I could actually start in 3rd too although this was not needed most>of the time as 2nd did OK on ice. Don't remember since it has been my son's>car now the last two years.>

SBlackfoot wrote:>

"Several sources" told Columbus the world was flat, too.