no oil in cylinder head

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CarGuru > Chrysler > no oil in cylinder head 20 May 2007 21:35:45

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no oil in cylinder head
Torgeir Jensen 22 March 2005 22:02:54
	1993 Chrysler Voyager 3.3 liter V6. Rocker arm and shaft completely worn out/damaged in the rear cylinder head. When trying to replace i found out no oil pumping to the cylinder head. Oilpressure is normal and front cylinder head shows no wear at all. Mileage is high (320000km). Any ideas? One idea is that camrod bearing has turned in its seat and the engine needs to be replaced. I have noticed a burned smell last 6 monts when parked and smell seems to come from the right side of the car.
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Maxpower 23 March 2005 00:20:00 [ permanent link ]
	"torgeir jensen" <slettjensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d1pmki$cdo$1@services.kq.no...> 1993 Chrysler Voyager 3.3 liter V6.> Rocker arm and shaft completely worn out/damaged in the rear cylinder head.> When trying to replace i found out no oil pumping to the cylinder head.> Oilpressure is normal and front cylinder head shows no wear at all. Mileage> is high (320000km).> Any ideas? One idea is that camrod bearing has turned in its seat and the> engine needs to be replaced. I have noticed a burned smell last 6 monts when> parked and smell seems to come from the right side of the car. More then likely that is the cause of your problem, the Bearing has turned, or the passage has stopped up, I have seen it both ways.,. That doesnt mean that the engine needs to be replaced Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech
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Torgeir Jensen 23 March 2005 02:03:41 [ permanent link ]
	Thanks for quick reply. If the bearing has turned, what to do? Understand that i have to take engine out of the car to remove camrod. Haynes manual states that replacing cam bearing is out of the scope of the home mechanic. If the bearing rotates in its seat would that not ruin it and make it impossible to put a new bearing in the same place? Torgeir
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Daniel J. Stern 23 March 2005 02:52:58 [ permanent link ]
	On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, torgeir jensen wrote: Thanks for quick reply. If the bearing has turned, what to do? Replace the turned cam bearing. Understand> that i have to take engine out of the car to remove camrod. Haynes manual> states that replacing cam bearing is out of the scope of the home mechanic. Throw your Haynes manual as far away as you can. Or set it on fire. Get the FACTORY service manual. If the bearing rotates in its seat would that not ruin it and make it> impossible to put a new bearing in the same place? Not necessarily, no. DS
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Joe Pfeiffer 23 March 2005 03:52:24 [ permanent link ]
	"torgeir jensen" <deletejensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> writes: Thanks for quick reply. If the bearing has turned, what to do? Understand> that i have to take engine out of the car to remove camrod. Haynes manual> states that replacing cam bearing is out of the scope of the home mechanic.> If the bearing rotates in its seat would that not ruin it and make it> impossible to put a new bearing in the same place? Get the real factory service manual and see what's involved. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
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Damnnickname 23 March 2005 15:26:15 [ permanent link ]
	It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out. Glenn Beasley Chrysler tech
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Torgeir Jensen 24 March 2005 02:37:36 [ permanent link ]
	Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in relation to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? Is the problem that a hole in the camrod and a hole in the bearng must be aligned or is it between the crankcase and the bearing? "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> skrev i melding news:24f81868dc5f2a5f37b2a947483a3cd4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year> vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine> will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out.> Glenn Beasley> Chrysler tech>
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Maxpower 24 March 2005 04:16:30 [ permanent link ]
	"torgeir jensen" <deletejensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d1sr35$ps1$1@services.kq.no...> Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in relation> to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? Is the problem that a hole the camrod and a hole in the bearng must be aligned or is it between the> crankcase and the bearing?> "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> skrev i melding> news:24f81868dc5f2a5f37b2a947483a3cd4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> > It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year> > vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine> > will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out.> > Glenn Beasley> > Chrysler tech> > No such thing as a cam rod, what could have happened is, the bearing that is inside the block (used for the camshaft) has spun, when this happens there is no oil feed to that potion going up to the cylinder head
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Daniel J. Stern 24 March 2005 04:53:19 [ permanent link ]
	On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, torgeir jensen wrote: Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in relation> to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? In relation to the engine casting. Is the problem that a hole in the camrod and a hole in the bearng must> be aligned or is it between the crankcase and the bearing? A hole in the bearing and a hole in the engine casting (what you are calling the crankcase).
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Steve 24 March 2005 22:11:52 [ permanent link ]
	The camshaft (I assume thats what you mean by "camrod") spins in the bearing all the time. If the bearing has "turned," it is by definition turned in relation to the engine block. torgeir jensen wrote: Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in relation> to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? Is the problem that a hole in> the camrod and a hole in the bearng must be aligned or is it between the> crankcase and the bearing?> "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> skrev i melding> news:24f81868dc5f2a5f37b2a947483a3cd4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...> It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year>>vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine>>will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out.>> Glenn Beasley>>Chrysler tech>>
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Torgeir Jensen 25 March 2005 16:14:48 [ permanent link ]
	Well i guess i have to pull out the engine and remove the camshaft to inspect if this is the reason. The manual i have does not show what the bearing look like and how to remove it. I assume there is more than one bearing? It does however say how to remove the camshaft . I guess i have to take it out and inspect it and try to figure out if it is possible to replace the bearings. If it looks to complicated or there is to much damage i probably would replace the engine with one from a junkyard. They want aprox. 1000$ for a used engine, but living in Norway it seems to costly to get a rebuilt engine. Rebuilding the thing myself looks to complicated. I would like to thank you all for your help and i will get back with the result of this problem. Torgeir "Steve" <no@spam.thanks> skrev i melding news:W8ednTT_7IR1n97fRVn-qA@texas.net...> The camshaft (I assume thats what you mean by "camrod") spins in the > bearing all the time. If the bearing has "turned," it is by definition > turned in relation to the engine block.> torgeir jensen wrote:> Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in >> relation>> to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? Is the problem that a hole >> in>> the camrod and a hole in the bearng must be aligned or is it between the>> crankcase and the bearing?>> "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> skrev i melding>> news:24f81868dc5f2a5f37b2a947483a3cd4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...>> It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year>>>vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine>>>will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out.>>> Glenn Beasley>>>Chrysler tech>>>
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Steve 25 March 2005 20:15:10 [ permanent link ]
	Whoa there, let's not jump the gun just yet. We've all zeroed in on a rotated cam bearing as the culprit, but there are a couple other possibilities. I'm not intimately familiar with the 3.3 v6, but I believe it oils the rockers exactly like the pre-1992 Chrysler v8s did: oil flows from the cam bearing, up through a passage in the block, through the head gasket and into a passage in the head that leads to one of the rocker shaft pedestals, around the rocker shaft bolt that goes into that pedestal, and thus into the rocker shaft. It is possible that the rocker shaft is incorrectly installed. The hole that the hold-down bolt passes through on the rocker shaft pedestal that contains the oil passage is supposed to be oversized on one side of the rocker shaft, giving clearance around the bolt so that the oil can flow into the shaft- if the shaft was ever removed and re-installed upside-down, oil flow will be blocked or severely restricted. Also, if the head gasket isn't properly aligned, or for some reason the oil passage hole wasn't punched out in the head gasket, oil flow will be blocked (I always check this hole on V8 head gaskets to make sure its fully open before I install them. And finally, the passage leading from the cam up through the block and head to the rocker pedestal is fairly small diameter and might be blocked by some type of debris. its hard to imagine this because only filtered oil should make it that far, but if it was ever run with a badly clogged oil filter so that the bypass valve lifted, it is possible. Well i guess i have to pull out the engine and remove the camshaft to > inspect if this is the reason. The manual i have does not show what the > bearing look like and how to remove it. I assume there is more than one > bearing? It does however say how to remove the camshaft . I guess i have to > take it out and inspect it and try to figure out if it is possible to > replace the bearings. If it looks to complicated or there is to much damage > i probably would replace the engine with one from a junkyard. They want > aprox. 1000$ for a used engine, but living in Norway it seems to costly to > get a rebuilt engine. Rebuilding the thing myself looks to complicated. I > would like to thank you all for your help and i will get back with the > result of this problem.> Torgeir> "Steve" <no@spam.thanks> skrev i melding > news:W8ednTT_7IR1n97fRVn-qA@texas.net...> The camshaft (I assume thats what you mean by "camrod") spins in the >>bearing all the time. If the bearing has "turned," it is by definition >>turned in relation to the engine block.>> torgeir jensen wrote:>> Lets see if i got this rigt. If the bearing has turned is that in >>>relation>>>to the crankcase or in relation to the camrod? Is the problem that a hole >>>in>>>the camrod and a hole in the bearng must be aligned or is it between the>>>crankcase and the bearing?>>> "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> skrev i melding>>>news:24f81868dc5f2a5f37b2a947483a3cd4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...>>> It has been a long time since I replaced a camshaft/bearing on that year>>>>vehicle, Im pretty sure the engine has to be pulled because the engine>>>>will not lower or raise high enough for clearance to pull the shaft out.>>>> Glenn Beasley>>>>Chrysler tech>>>>
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Daniel J. Stern 25 March 2005 23:21:47 [ permanent link ]
	On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, torgeir jensen wrote: Well i guess i have to pull out the engine and remove the camshaft to> inspect if this is the reason. The manual i have does not show what the> bearing look like and how to remove it. That's because you haven't got the correct manual. You really need a FACTORY shop manual.
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Maxpower 26 March 2005 01:03:53 [ permanent link ]
	"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message newsine.GSO.4.58.0503251421270.23888@alumni.engin.umich.edu...> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, torgeir jensen wrote:> Well i guess i have to pull out the engine and remove the camshaft to> > inspect if this is the reason. The manual i have does not show what the> > bearing look like and how to remove it.> That's because you haven't got the correct manual. You really need a> FACTORY shop manual. Ummmm I wouldn't pull the engine just yet, the cylinder oil passage could be stopped up, since you know the head is bad, why not remove it, then crank the engine over to see if you have oil being pumped up thru the oil galley. if not.... then take it from there Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech
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Torgeir Jensen 26 March 2005 22:09:42 [ permanent link ]
	I think i will do just that. Dont know where i would get hold of the original factory shop manual. One thing i am wondering about and probably soon will find out is how to replace those bearings. If the cam has to be pulled out from that hole and the the bearings are mounted on the engine block will i then be able to get to the bearings from below the intake manifold? Over the weekend i will dig into this problem. Cylinder head goes off first and then if no luck i will take out the engine. That part is well explained in the book i have. I would also like to say that i am surprised and also very happy that complete strangers to me are taking the time to provide good advise like these. Torgeir Ummmm I wouldn't pull the engine just yet, the cylinder oil passage could > be> stopped up, since you know the head is bad, why not remove it, then crank> the engine over to see if you have oil being pumped up thru the oil > galley.> if not.... then take it from there> Glenn Beasley> Chrysler Tech>
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Daniel J. Stern 27 March 2005 02:03:32 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, torgeir jensen wrote: Dont know where i would get hold of the original factory shop manual. eBay.
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Tango 27 March 2005 02:42:47 [ permanent link ]
	"torgeir jensen" <slettjensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> wrote in news:d248hd$ntt$1@services.kq.no: I think i will do just that.> Dont know where i would get hold of the original factory shop manual.> This is a site you can get used factory service manuals from. It was posted by someone in this group, he semms to have a large selection. He will email you a price and order form. HTH Dvogelauto@aol.com
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Daniel J. Stern 27 March 2005 03:05:28 [ permanent link ]
	On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, tango wrote: Dont know where i would get hold of the original factory shop manual. This is a site you can get used factory service manuals from. It was> posted by someone in this group, he semms to have a large selection. He> will email you a price and order form. HTH Dvogelauto@aol.com Oh, wow. That's gotta be Doug Vogel. I was buying manuals and literature for him 17 years ago! (clickety click, google on dvogelauto@aol.com) Yep, that's him. Wonder whatever happened to some of my other old sources. Jim Lungwitz usually had excellent prices...and there was a guy in PA...Auto's Literature Shoppe, but I can't remember the guy's name. He had stuff NOBODY else had. Then there's the guy in Richmond, BC, whose contact info I've been trying to find lately. Lynch, I think his name was. Bah. My memory ain't what it used to be, as it seems.
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Steve 29 March 2005 00:49:35 [ permanent link ]
	torgeir jensen wrote: I think i will do just that.> Dont know where i would get hold of the original factory shop manual. One > thing i am wondering about and probably soon will find out is how to replace > those bearings. If the cam has to be pulled out from that hole and the the > bearings are mounted on the engine block will i then be able to get to the > bearings from below the intake manifold? Cam bearings require a special tool to install. They are not split like crankshaft and connecting rod bearings, but have to be installed onto a special mandrel that keeps them round while pressing them into the block. They're tapered front-to-rear (or rear-to-front, I forget which) so that the tool can pass through all the bearings: http://www.frontline-equip.com/bhjtools/Cambearing.html If the bearing is rotated in the block, the best bet is to let a machine shop pop the new bearings in. Shouldn't take them long- a lot less time than it would take you, and if you're like me you'd probably ruin a bearing or two along the way up the learning curve... ;-/
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Torgeir Jensen 29 March 2005 02:43:01 [ permanent link ]
	If there is no oil flowing after cylinder head is removed i think i will stop there and try to find a used engine and replace it. Engine has 320 000 km on it and i figure the metal missing from the rockerarm shaft must have gone somwhere. The inside of the cylinder head has a copper like color so it must have been very hot there. One problem though. Removed the exhaust manifold bolts but one bolt was very long with treads all the way out and it had a nut with an alternator mount on it. In other words no head on the bolt. Can not figure out how to remove it. The other bolts with a 10 mm head was very hard to loosen and i figure this is not going to be easy. I will try and put 2 nuts on the bolt and try to lock them to each other but i am sceptical. Any special tool for this or a pair of pliers?> Cam bearings require a special tool to install. They are not split like > crankshaft and connecting rod bearings, but have to be installed onto a > special mandrel that keeps them round while pressing them into the > block. They're tapered front-to-rear (or rear-to-front, I forget which) > so that the tool can pass through all the bearings:> http://www.frontline-equip.com/bhjtools/Cambearing.html> If the bearing is rotated in the block, the best bet is to let a machine > shop pop the new bearings in. Shouldn't take them long- a lot less time > than it would take you, and if you're like me you'd probably ruin a > bearing or two along the way up the learning curve... ;-/>
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Maxpower 29 March 2005 03:59:23 [ permanent link ]
	"torgeir jensen" <slettjensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d2a1a0$gbp$1@services.kq.no... If there is no oil flowing after cylinder head is removed i think i will stop there and try to find a used engine and replace it. Engine has 320 000 km on it and i figure the metal missing from the rockerarm shaft must have gone somwhere. The inside of the cylinder head has a copper like color so it must have been very hot there. One problem though. Removed the exhaust manifold bolts but one bolt was very long with treads all the way out and it had a nut with an alternator mount on it. In other words no head on the bolt . Can not figure out how to remove it It is a torx head bolt, must of the time you have to use a stud remover or vise grips to remove that bolt . The other bolts with a 10 mm head was very hard to loosen and i figure this is not going to be easy. I will try and put 2 nuts on the bolt and try to lock them to each other but i am sceptical. Any special tool for this or a pair of pliers? > Cam bearings require a special tool to install. They are not split like > crankshaft and connecting rod bearings, but have to be installed onto a > special mandrel that keeps them round while pressing them into the > block. They're tapered front-to-rear (or rear-to-front, I forget which) > so that the tool can pass through all the bearings: > http://www.frontline-equip.com/bhjtools/Cambearing.html > If the bearing is rotated in the block, the best bet is to let a machine > shop pop the new bearings in. Shouldn't take them long- a lot less time > than it would take you, and if you're like me you'd probably ruin a > bearing or two along the way up the learning curve... ;-/ >
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Steve 29 March 2005 19:38:43 [ permanent link ]
	torgeir jensen wrote: If there is no oil flowing after cylinder head is removed i think i > will stop there and try to find a used engine Can you identify the hole where the oil feed SHOULD be? Can you insert a fine wire all the way down that hole and see if you encounter any resistance before a hard "stop" that would be the camshaft (or the back of the bearing, if the bearing is rotated). If its plugged with sludge, you still might be able to clear it. Removed the exhaust manifold bolts but one bolt was very long with > treads all the way out and it had a nut with an alternator mount on it. > In other words no head on the bolt. Its a "stud" not a bolt. Can not figure out how to remove it. > The other bolts with a 10 mm head was very hard to loosen and i figure > this is not going to be easy. I will try and put 2 nuts on the bolt and > try to lock them to each other but i am sceptical. That's the best way to proceed.
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Steve 30 March 2005 03:27:47 [ permanent link ]
	torgeir jensen wrote: I understand ok- I guess I was being unclear myself. Apologies for that! I was talking about the hole in the engine block where the oil comes up from the cam shaft and feeds (through the head gasket) into the cylinder head. When the head is bolted onto the block, that hole will line up with the hole in the head that leads to one of the 4 "towers" (rocker shaft pedestals). In other words, the test I was interested in seeing was whether you can put your plastic fishing line down into the engine block all the way to the point where that oil gallery reaches the cam bearing. Rod camrod shaft bolt. Sorry I live in Norway. Worked in the US from > 1986-1989 but my language skill is not what it used to be, Sorry bear with > me. Anyway Head has 4 "towers" which holds the rocker shaft. In one of them > there is a hole in adition to the bolt hole. I figure this must be where the > oil i supposed to come up into the rocker shaft. Inserted a piece of > plastic"Fishing line"(again bear with me). It went down aprox 4-5 cm and > then it felt like it tried to go around a corner. If i can get the "stud" > off tomorrow i will squirt some oil in the hole and see if it gets trough. > Since parts for this car is priced way cheaper in the US than in Norway i > checked with two places in the US. One of them said this engine is different > in europe and parts ordered from him would definatly not fit in a european > version. Another parts dealer said "sure it will fit, i ship to europe al > the time". Is one of them lying to me?> Torgeir.> "Steve" <no@spam.thanks> skrev i melding > news:beOdnWOiddgZ69TfRVn-uQ@texas.net...> torgeir jensen wrote:>> If there is no oil flowing after cylinder head is removed i think i>>>will stop there and try to find a used engine>> Can you identify the hole where the oil feed SHOULD be? Can you insert a >>fine wire all the way down that hole and see if you encounter any >>resistance before a hard "stop" that would be the camshaft (or the back of >>the bearing, if the bearing is rotated). If its plugged with sludge, you >>still might be able to clear it.>> Removed the exhaust manifold bolts but one bolt was very long with treads >>>all the way out and it had a nut with an alternator mount on it. In other >>>words no head on the bolt.>> Its a "stud" not a bolt.>> Can not figure out how to remove it. The other bolts with a 10 mm head >>>was very hard to loosen and i figure this is not going to be easy. I will >>>try and put 2 nuts on the bolt and try to lock them to each other but i >>>am sceptical.>> That's the best way to proceed.>>
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Torgeir Jensen 1 April 2005 16:37:21 [ permanent link ]
	Well cylinder head is now off and still no oil. Put a thin screwdriver dovn the hole and it meets metal at an angle of about 45 degrees about 7 cm down the hole.. It is either the cam otself or the camshaft. Strange thing. car has about 330 000 km on it and still i can se the honing on the cylinder walls and no edge on the wall at the top. Engine goes out next week and i will take it to a shop to change the bearings. Torgeir
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Torgeir Jensen 1 April 2005 16:53:24 [ permanent link ]
	Lot of misspelling here. I meant "The camshaft itself or the bearing". By the way is it best to remove engine and transmission in one piece or leave transmission in the car? Torgeir "torgeir jensen" <slettjensen_torgeir@hotmail.com> skrev i melding news:d2jfah$hp4$1@services.kq.no...> Well cylinder head is now off and still no oil. Put a thin screwdriver > dovn the hole and it meets metal at an angle of about 45 degrees about 7 > cm down the hole.. It is either the cam otself or the camshaft. Strange > thing. car has about 330 000 km on it and still i can se the honing on the > cylinder walls and no edge on the wall at the top. Engine goes out next > week and i will take it to a shop to change the bearings.> Torgeir>
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Guest 27 March 2007 04:36:55 [ permanent link ]
	Dealing with the same problem myself. I know this thread is a couple of years old, what did you end up finding out or doing with the engine?
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Guest 20 May 2007 21:35:45 [ permanent link ]
	Hey...I have the same problem. I am hoping it was a clogged hole. I poked a small wire in the port and after wiggling it around, it went in farther. I just put it back together an hour ago. I'm going to run an oil cleaner in it and tear it back down. Then I'll see if I got oil pumping up through. If not a clogged hole, I'm going to try and engineer an aux oiling line and oil the rear side independently. I see one guy did this and vehicle is running for over a year...But he didn't say how he did it...He wants $225 for a kit he put together, which is OEM stuff modified somehow. That's what I'm going to try to do also. Note: Soak new rocker tube and arms in oil before putting them in, per Chrysler. Most people seem to think that the camshaft bearing has spun, thus blocking the oil flow up to the rocker arm assembly. While this may be true, the oil port is real small and it's a good point about the bypass letting debris around the filter. It wouldn't take much to clog that port. Drop me a line if you want: steve16428@yahoo.com
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CarGuru > Chrysler > no oil in cylinder head 20 May 2007 21:35:45

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no oil in cylinder head

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