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2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission
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CarGuru > Chrysler > 2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission 1 October 2005 09:00:57
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2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

John Gregory 6 March 2005 09:11:41
 While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;
nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
nothing like burnt fluid.



I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first gear.
After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I assume
that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another quarter
of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe place
and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.



What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of
some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at least
half the tab?


Add comment
John Gregory 6 March 2005 18:17:52 [ permanent link ]
 I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
$200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:

Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
else in the engine?

Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half may
be too long.


"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote in message
news:Ee2dnVEACYcadL­ffRVn-qw@comcast.com­...>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...>> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my>> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a>> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the> worst;>> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I>> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked >> the>> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but>> nothing like burnt fluid.>>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than >> turn>> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to >> stay>> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40>> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first> gear.>> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I> assume>> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the>> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another> quarter>> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe> place>> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here>> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.>>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the>> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were>> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 ->> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with >> these>> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module >> of>> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at> least>> half the tab?>>
Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both > sensors> on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should> cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the> job.>
Glenn Beasley> Chrysler Tech>


Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 6 March 2005 19:06:35 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other> words, it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output
speed sensor.
Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with> the transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or> somewhere else in the engine?

They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the
transmission.
Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and> not readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a> half may be too long.

Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or
Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or
damage.
Add comment
John Gregory 6 March 2005 19:23:53 [ permanent link ]
 I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light
automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on the
outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might
occur. But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the
dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive
it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in the
rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it
and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service manager
(he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems
to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the
problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the
1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the
expected time of repair?) calls for.

I appreciate all the help.



"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503061004390.15334@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:>
Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by>> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other>> words, it goes on automatically but not off automatically.>
It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output> speed sensor.>
Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with>> the transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or>> somewhere else in the engine?>
They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the> transmission.>
Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and>> not readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a>> half may be too long.>
Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or> Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or> damage.


Add comment
Megan Simms 6 March 2005 20:30:15 [ permanent link ]
 John Gregory wrote:
While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but> nothing like burnt fluid.

To expand on what others have said, a transmission speed sensor failed. There
are two such sensors, one that measures input shaft speed and one that measures
output shaft speed. In your case, we know that it was your output sensor that
failed, because of the failed speedometer indication.

Because the TCM (transmission control module) wasn't receiving normal readings,
it went into a preprogrammed (limp home) mode that locks the transmission in 2nd
gear, hence your high tachometer reading. This protects the transmission and
allows you to still drive, all though with great care and at slow speed.

These sensors are known to fail for some reason. I'm not sure if newer sensors
will last longer, or if sensors manufactured before some data are not prone to
failure. However they are readily available (many models use the same sensors
and dealers tend to keep a bunch in their stock) and not excessively expensive.
It is an easy do it yourself repair with the caveat that you need to be able to
get under the car (sensors are accessed from under the transmission on the right
(driver) side and a factory service manual is important. You may wish to
replace the nearby input sensor too, although I don't have any evidence to
suggest that the new sensor would be any better. The input and output sensors
have different part numbers with a slightly different socket to prevent them
from being reversed. These are hall effect sensors.

Add comment
Megan Simms 6 March 2005 20:38:33 [ permanent link ]
 

John Gregory wrote:
I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what> happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than> $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:>
Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,> it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

I believe what you saw was the "check engine" light which illuminates whenever a
fairly serious trouble code is stored by the computer. Some more serious
conditions will also cause the light to flash instead of being on steady.

The light should go out after the computer detects the problem has not
reoccurred after a period of time. If the dealer does the repair they may be
able to reset it with their scan tool equipment. You can also view some trouble
codes by turning the ignition ON three times repeatedly (don't start the engine)
and watching the odometer display. This won't get all codes but it often can
give you the more serious ones. Consult the FSM for their meanings.

Add comment
Maxpower 6 March 2005 21:28:17 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:kiEWd.2806$J14­.2685@fe1.columbus.r­r.com...> I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's
what> happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than> $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:>
Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other
words,> it goes on automatically but not off automatically

In you case it set due to a fault code with the output speed sensor, If you
put the part on yourself it will see the problem is fixed and will turn it
off. after a few few trips. Or a scan tool will reset it.>
Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the> transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere> else in the engine?

On the left side outside of trans.>
Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not> readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half
be too long.

It wouldnt take an hour and a half, but you would have to raise at least the
left side of the vehicle
"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote in message> news:Ee2dnVEACYcadL­ffRVn-qw@comcast.com­...> >
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> > news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...> >> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my> >> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a> >> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the> > worst;> >> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I> >> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked> >> the> >> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but> >> nothing like burnt fluid.> >>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than> >> turn> >> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to> >> stay> >> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40> >> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first> > gear.> >> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I> > assume> >> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the> >> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another> > quarter> >> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe> > place> >> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit
here> >> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.> >>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the> >> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were> >> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -> >> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with> >> these> >> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module> >> of> >> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at> > least> >> half the tab?> >>
Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both> > sensors> > on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts
should> > cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for
job.> >
Glenn Beasley> > Chrysler Tech> >


Add comment
Maxpower 6 March 2005 21:32:55 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:dgFWd.2809$J14­.1160@fe1.columbus.r­r.com...> I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light> automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on
outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might> occur.

Daniel Stern had a car he couldnt fix a few years ago and got into a deep
mess with the owner so he blamed the after market manual for that. That is
what he meant when by the comment below
Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or> > Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or> > damage.


But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.> When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the> dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive> it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in
rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it> and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service
manager> (he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems> to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the> problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the> 1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the> expected time of repair?) calls for.

1.5 labor I said was on the high side.

I appreciate all the help.>
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message> news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503061004390.15334@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...> > On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:> >
Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by> >> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other> >> words, it goes on automatically but not off automatically.> >
It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output> > speed sensor.> >
Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with> >> the transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or> >> somewhere else in the engine?> >
They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the> > transmission.> >
Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and> >> not readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a> >> half may be too long.> >
Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or> > Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or> > damage.>


Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 6 March 2005 22:31:57 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler.

Excellent.
Will the light automatically go out when the parts are replaced?

I'm not certain -- the manual will contain this information.
If those parts are on the> outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might> occur.

The reference was to the many errors and grossly incorrect procedures
present in Haynes and Chilton manuals.
I assume the 1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives> you guys the expected time of repair?) calls for.

"Flat-rate manual".
Add comment
Steve B . 7 March 2005 01:14:03 [ permanent link ]
 You should have no problem driving the car home a few miles from the
dealership if you want to fix it yourself. The trans is locked in
second gear so accelerate slowly and don't go excessivley fast. The
input sensor failed on my sisters car a while back and she was at the
dealership less than 30 minutes total to get it replaced.

Steve B.
Add comment
Art 7 March 2005 07:11:10 [ permanent link ]
 Also have the dealer change the AT fluid since it got very hot.


"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote in message
news:Ee2dnVEACYcadL­ffRVn-qw@comcast.com­...>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...>> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my>> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a>> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the> worst;>> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I>> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked >> the>> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but>> nothing like burnt fluid.>>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than >> turn>> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to >> stay>> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40>> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first> gear.>> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I> assume>> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the>> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another> quarter>> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe> place>> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here>> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.>>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the>> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were>> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 ->> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with >> these>> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module >> of>> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at> least>> half the tab?>>
Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both > sensors> on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should> cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the> job.>
Glenn Beasley> Chrysler Tech>


Add comment
Tnkev 7 March 2005 16:54:55 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the
worst;> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but> nothing like burnt fluid.>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first
gear.> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I
assume> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another
quarter> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe
place> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at
least> half the tab?>
Sounds like a speed sensor shouldn't be too big of a bill.


Add comment
John Gregory 9 March 2005 11:03:10 [ permanent link ]
 Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me for
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission
fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.
They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid
by Chrysler for that as well.

Did I get rooked?

"TNKEV" <TNKEV@hotmail.com>­ wrote in message
news:d0hj46$dh7$1@d­omitilla.aioe.org...­>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...>> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my>> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a>> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the> worst;>> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I>> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked >> the>> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but>> nothing like burnt fluid.>>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than >> turn>> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to >> stay>> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40>> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first> gear.>> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I> assume>> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the>> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another> quarter>> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe> place>> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here>> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.>>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the>> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were>> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 ->> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with >> these>> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module >> of>> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at> least>> half the tab?>>
Sounds like a speed sensor shouldn't be too big of a bill.>


Add comment
Maxpower 9 March 2005 13:32:48 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:OcxXd.2448$jW6­.133@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...> Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid> by Chrysler for that as well.>
Did I get rooked?>
"TNKEV" <TNKEV@hotmail.com>­ wrote in message> news:d0hj46$dh7$1@d­omitilla.aioe.org...­> >
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> > news:hiwWd.10030$3t­3.55@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...> >> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my> >> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a> >> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the> > worst;> >> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I> >> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked> >> the> >> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but> >> nothing like burnt fluid.> >>
I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than> >> turn> >> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to> >> stay> >> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40> >> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first> > gear.> >> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I> > assume> >> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the> >> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another> > quarter> >> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe> > place> >> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit
here> >> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.> >>
What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the> >> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were> >> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -> >> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with> >> these> >> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module> >> of> >> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at> > least> >> half the tab?> >>
Sounds like a speed sensor shouldn't be too big of a bill.> >
Yup a little steep with the labor


Add comment
Bill Putney 9 March 2005 15:14:36 [ permanent link ]
 maxpower wrote:
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:OcxXd.2448$jW6­.133@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...>
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me>
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission>>fluid­; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.>>They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid>>by Chrysler for that as well.>>
Did I get rooked?>>

Yup a little steep with the labor

Yeah - I'd like to get paid for 2 hours for 30 minutes work. Where do I
sign up! I'd at least tell them to knock it back to book rate - and ask
them to explain why they take that long to do a 30 minute job.

You really should change the fluid and filter regardless of what they
say. Every 80k miles would be reasonable. DIY for cost of fluid and
filter and 2 hours time, and get a thorough changeout of fluid in the
bargain - not less than half from a pan drop.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Add comment
John Gregory 9 March 2005 19:08:56 [ permanent link ]
 Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an estimate
of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book",
that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?

Q1) Is there a book available at the library - or on line - that will give
standard time for all repair jobs?

I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing
to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been clipped
a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if his
competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".

Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these
days?


"Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:d0mlr3$i00$1@n­ews.isdn.net...> maxpower wrote:>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message>> news:OcxXd.2448$jW6­.133@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...>>
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me>>
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission>>>flui­d; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.>>>They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got >>>paid>>>by Chrysler for that as well.>>>
Did I get rooked?>>>
Yup a little steep with the labor>
Yeah - I'd like to get paid for 2 hours for 30 minutes work. Where do I > sign up! I'd at least tell them to knock it back to book rate - and ask > them to explain why they take that long to do a 30 minute job.>
You really should change the fluid and filter regardless of what they say. > Every 80k miles would be reasonable. DIY for cost of fluid and filter and > 2 hours time, and get a thorough changeout of fluid in the bargain - not > less than half from a pan drop.>
Bill Putney> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > adddress with the letter 'x')


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 9 March 2005 23:59:03 [ permanent link ]
 In article <OcxXd.2448$jW6.133­@fe2.columbus.rr.com­>,
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote:
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me for > 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission > fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell. > They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid > by Chrysler for that as well.>
Did I get rooked?

Nope.

Labor time is;
diagnose 1.0 hrs
replace input speed sensor .5 hrs
replace output speed sensor .5 hrs
Add comment
Aarcuda69062 10 March 2005 00:04:40 [ permanent link ]
 In article <ckEXd.2465$jW6.228­3@fe2.columbus.rr.co­m>,
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote:
Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an estimate > of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book", > that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?

Only if one makes certain assumptions and/or jumps to conclusions.
Q1) Is there a book available at the library - or on line - that will give > standard time for all repair jobs?

That would be up to an individual library system.
On line, I doubt it.
I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing > to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been clipped > a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if his > competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".

The dealer charged exactly what the labor guide calls for.
Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these > days?

Varies by region.
Add comment
Maxpower 10 March 2005 01:53:17 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:ckEXd.2465$jW6­.2283@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...> Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an
estimate> of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book",> that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?>
Q1) Is there a book available at the library - or on line - that will give> standard time for all repair jobs?>
I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing> to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been
clipped> a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if
competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".>
Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these> days?>
"Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message> news:d0mlr3$i00$1@n­ews.isdn.net...> > maxpower wrote:> >
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> >> news:OcxXd.2448$jW6­.133@fe2.columbus.rr­.com...> >>
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the
transmission> >>>fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of
hell.> >>>They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got> >>>paid> >>>by Chrysler for that as well.> >>>
Did I get rooked?> >>>
Yup a little steep with the labor> >
Yeah - I'd like to get paid for 2 hours for 30 minutes work. Where do I> > sign up! I'd at least tell them to knock it back to book rate - and ask> > them to explain why they take that long to do a 30 minute job.> >
You really should change the fluid and filter regardless of what they
say.> > Every 80k miles would be reasonable. DIY for cost of fluid and filter
2 hours time, and get a thorough changeout of fluid in the bargain - not> > less than half from a pan drop.> >
Bill Putney> > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my> > adddress with the letter 'x')>
The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to
verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already done.
The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace, .5
for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.
( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech


Add comment
Bob Shuman 10 March 2005 03:42:17 [ permanent link ]
 My answers to your questions are embedded below.

Bob

"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:xeIXd.2472$jW6­.1487@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...> There seems to be a difference of opinion concerning the transmission
fluid> here. The service manual - based upon my driving habits - claims no change> is necessary. The dealer claims - after checking the fluid - no change is> necessary.

This is indeed terue, but the early Chrysler FWD electronic transmissions
experiencesd a lot of early failures and word of mouth in this group seemed
to confirm that frequent changes coupled with additional fluid coolers
helped improve the life. I still follow this even though the product has
obviously been improved.
I can understand the position one might take if they have changed fluid
over> the years with no incidence of trans failure. However, that fact alone -> particularly in view of recommendation from the manufacture NOT to
change -> doesn't serve as proof that changing fluid prevents failure. The same> results may have occurred without the changes.

Again, absolutely true. My philosphy has always been to do PREVENTIVE
maintenance where ever possible. You and everyone else are free to do
whatever you like.
On the other hand, it may be like chicken soup as a remedy for the common;> it can't hurt. That being the case...

Again, I agree. It can't hurt if done right.
Q3) How do I get ALL the fluid out of the system if I drain it myself,> check the magnet, and replace the filter?

I do not get all the fluid out. I just get what I can and let it drain
overnight. I figure I get 5-6 quarts each time which is roughly speaking
about half.
Q4) Do I need any "special" tools for any part of the job? (I don't
think> I did for the '95 Concorde I had)

No special tools needed: A 3/8" ratchet and appropriate metric socket, some
extenders, possibly a swivel if there is a bracket in the way (I do not
think there was one, but each vehicle was different), a gasket scraper or
wire brush, some brake cleaner and a torque wrench to re-tighten the bolts.
Q5) How much would be left in the system if I simply dropped the pan
drained? (Assuming the pan is the only thing I could drop reasonably)

See comment above. I do this to get the gunk out of the pan as there is
always residue there which I am assuming comes from the clutch material. I
also do this to change the filter as well. This just seems like good
practice to me as I would never change engine oil and leave in a dirty
filter even though this is what the OM says to do every 7500 miles. (I
change engine oil and filter religiously at 3K miles and have never had an
engine failure of any kind in over 30 years of driving.)



Add comment
Bill Putney 10 March 2005 04:36:38 [ permanent link ]
 maxpower wrote:
The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to> verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the> connectors to perform the test...

Not true. The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was
not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output
sensor was bad.

I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do
certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a
diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said
"I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay
your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that
isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging
me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Add comment


Bill Putney 10 March 2005 04:59:33 [ permanent link ]
 John Gregory wrote:
There seems to be a difference of opinion concerning the transmission fluid > here. The service manual - based upon my driving habits - claims no change > is necessary. The dealer claims - after checking the fluid - no change is > necessary.

That may be true. However, I have read on forums of DC dealers refusing
to honor a warranty repair on a tranny because the fluid was not
changed. When the customer complained that their driving meets the
Schedule A conditions, the dealer claimed that they refuse to recognize
that Schedule A driving is possible and that they consider Schedule B
the only valid schedule - claim denied.
...Q3) How do I get ALL the fluid out of the system if I drain it myself, > check the magnet, and replace the filter?

Glad you asked. I posted this info. recently in another thread: "See
this thread on the 300M Enthusiasts forum to see how it's done (300M and
Concorde power trains and chassis are identical - in fact, the photos in
my post in that thread show where I spliced the cooler return line on my
Concorde for changing out the tranny fluid):
http://300mclub.100­megs42.com/forums/vi­ewtopic.php?t=6295&h­ighlight=return+flui­d".

Now - truth is, it is a dilution process, so it will never be 100% fluid
exchange. But if you use, say, 12 quarts of fluid in the flush, the
replacement will be 95+% complete (vs. 40% of a simple pan drop and add
fluid).
Q4) Do I need any "special" tools for any part of the job? (I don't think > I did for the '95 Concorde I had)>
Q5) How much would be left in the system if I simply dropped the pan and > drained? (Assuming the pan is the only thing I could drop reasonably)

System holds slightly less than 10 qts. Dropping the pan ends up
"wasting" 4 to 4-1/2 qts. You do the math. 8^)

Another method that is between the method that I posted above and simply
dropping the pan as far as effectiveness of fluid exchange is to drop
the pan (replace filter), close it up , fill with new fluid, drive for a
few miles, drop pan again, close up, fill with fresh fluid. WAG - about
70 to 75% effective exchange of old/new fluid.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Add comment
Bill Putney 10 March 2005 05:09:11 [ permanent link ]
 John Gregory wrote:
Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an estimate > of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book", > that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?

$65 is about what you can get *both* sensors (combined) for, every day,
all over the place. Thanks for posting all this stuff. It reminds me
of a big part of why I do as much of my own work as possible.
I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing > to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been clipped > a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if his > competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".

Yeah - "I like *this* mugger over here better than that one over there
because this one only took my cash and not my credit cards too. I
really respect him because when he stabbed me, he didn't twist the
knife." 8^)
Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these > days?

Apparently as much as they want it to be. Let's see - 30 minutes work
for $250 - I think that works out to about $500/hr. 8^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Add comment


Aarcuda69062 10 March 2005 05:15:51 [ permanent link ]
 In article <5tydnQ9eVIeF7LLfRV­n-tA@comcast.com>,
"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:
The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor,

Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?
In order to> verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the> connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already done.

Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just
checking the sensor.
The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace, .5> for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.> ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

Really?
Did you check?
Which labor guide did I use?
Chiltons?
Mitchell?
Real Time?

I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time
guide describes.
Add comment
John Gregory 10 March 2005 09:58:20 [ permanent link ]
 Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of the
comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.

Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few pointers.

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-220FD­6.13590209032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> In article <OcxXd.2448$jW6.133­@fe2.columbus.rr.com­>,> "John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote:>
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me >> for>> 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission>> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.>> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got >> paid>> by Chrysler for that as well.>>
Did I get rooked?>
Nope.>
Labor time is;> diagnose 1.0 hrs> replace input speed sensor .5 hrs> replace output speed sensor .5 hrs


Add comment


Maxpower 10 March 2005 13:16:23 [ permanent link ]
 
"Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:d0o4qm$an2$1@n­ews.isdn.net...> maxpower wrote:>
The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to> > verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the> > connectors to perform the test...>
Not true.

whats not true?

The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was> not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output> sensor was bad.>
I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do> certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a> diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said> "I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay> your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that> isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging> me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?

And yes if the cust only wanted the part we would have to install the part.
The same as nrake work, if the cust doesnt want the rotors turned, we wont
machine the rotors,
There will be notes on the owners RO>
Bill Putney> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my> adddress with the letter 'x')


Add comment
Maxpower 10 March 2005 13:19:40 [ permanent link ]
 
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-1BE94­8.19155109032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> In article <5tydnQ9eVIeF7LLfRV­n-tA@comcast.com>,> "maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:>
The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor,>
Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?>
In order to> > verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the> > connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already
done.>
Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just> checking the sensor.>
The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace,
.5> > for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.> > ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?
Really?> Did you check?> Which labor guide did I use?> Chiltons?> Mitchell?> Real Time?>
I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time> guide describes.


Add comment
Maxpower 10 March 2005 13:20:47 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:0mRXd.3943$4k2­.2705@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...> Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of
comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see> what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.>
Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few
pointers.>
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message> news:nonelson-220FD­6.13590209032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> > In article <OcxXd.2448$jW6.133­@fe2.columbus.rr.com­>,> > "John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote:> >
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the
transmission> >> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of
hell.> >> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got> >> paid> >> by Chrysler for that as well.> >>
Did I get rooked?> >
Nope.> >
Labor time is;> > diagnose 1.0 hrs> > replace input speed sensor .5 hrs> > replace output speed sensor .5 hrs>
Good luck in getting a reply back from them


Add comment
Aarcuda69062 10 March 2005 17:41:46 [ permanent link ]
 In article <jPWdnfJ-KIdqjK3fRV­n-iw@comcast.com>,
"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:
I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?

Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one
day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another
day, it says something else.
Add comment
John Gregory 10 March 2005 19:25:22 [ permanent link ]
 Oh I'll get one... guaranteed. I asked for the warranty service record on
the '95 Concorde I bought used and they refused to give it to me saying it
was "confidential" between them and the original customer. I gave them my
explanation of why it was public record and they stuck to their guns. I
wrote my Senator (Ohio) and gave my side of the argument. The file arrived
about three weeks later. I'll get an answer. What I'm concerned about is
getting a wishy-washy answer and that is something I can't fight
successfully. "Gotta see the car"... "Each case is different." And they
successfully skit the issue. We'll see what happens.
"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote in message
news:LbednZoVct6nj6­3fRVn-3A@comcast.com­...>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:0mRXd.3943$4k2­.2705@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...>> Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of> the>> comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see>> what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.>>
Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few> pointers.>>
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message>> news:nonelson-220FD­6.13590209032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...>> > In article <OcxXd.2448$jW6.133­@fe2.columbus.rr.com­>,>> > "John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote:>> >
Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed> me>> >> for>> >> 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the> transmission>> >> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of> hell.>> >> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got>> >> paid>> >> by Chrysler for that as well.>> >>
Did I get rooked?>> >
Nope.>> >
Labor time is;>> > diagnose 1.0 hrs>> > replace input speed sensor .5 hrs>> > replace output speed sensor .5 hrs>>
Good luck in getting a reply back from them>


Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 10 March 2005 20:57:09 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Steve wrote:
Let me play Karnac the Magnificent, and I'll predict the reply:>
--->
Dear Mr. Gregory,>
Thank you for your letter concerning your DaimlerChrysler product. We> appreciate your business and your concerns are important to us.>
Regarding your questions about transmission fluid change intervals,> please refer to your owners manual. Follow the service schedule that> corresponds to the way you use your DaimlerChrysler Vehicle.>
Please do not hesitate to contact us if we may be of help in the future.>
---

Yep. It's a variation on what you get if you write to complain about the
specific implementation of any aspect of the vehicle:

Thank you for your letter concerning your <automaker> product. We
appreciate your business and your concerns are important to us.

Regarding your questions about <poor headlamp performance, turn signals,
seat belts, gas filler door sticking in cold weather, cupholder size,
whatever>: Please be advised that all <automaker> products, including your
vehicle, comply in full with all applicable Federal standards.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if we may be of help in the future.

Sincerely,

Misti Debbi Blondi,
<automaker> Customer Relations
Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 11 March 2005 00:56:51 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
Dear Mr. Zetsche:>
I realize this is misdirected but I want to make sure I receive a> definitive response to the questions I ask. As a man in charge of> producing a great car, I 'm sure you recognize the importance of solid> communication with the consumers who buy those cars and keep those> plants of yours running as well as they do; we're a fickle lot. So> please see that his/her gets placed into the hands of a capable> individual who can answer these questions.>
But... maybe I'll strike out.

You certainly will with that sloppy grammar and syntax.
Add comment
Maxpower 11 March 2005 01:02:40 [ permanent link ]
 LOL
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-A743A­7.07414510032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> In article <jPWdnfJ-KIdqjK3fRV­n-iw@comcast.com>,> "maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:>
I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?>
Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one> day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another> day, it says something else.


Add comment
John Gregory 11 March 2005 02:19:41 [ permanent link ]
 Your "pearls" will be right there swirling among all the other grammatical
errors, Daniel.

"The manual has claimed "No fluid change is necessary" for decades now. It
was OK to follow this suggestion in the days of the overengineered,
bulletproof Torqueflite transmissions. With the electronic transmissions,
it's difficult to change the fluid often enough."

Indeed! :-)­



"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503101555590.6698@a­lumni.engin.umich.ed­u...> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:>
Dear Mr. Zetsche:>>
I realize this is misdirected but I want to make sure I receive a>> definitive response to the questions I ask. As a man in charge of>> producing a great car, I 'm sure you recognize the importance of solid>> communication with the consumers who buy those cars and keep those>> plants of yours running as well as they do; we're a fickle lot. So>> please see that his/her gets placed into the hands of a capable>> individual who can answer these questions.>>
But... maybe I'll strike out.>
You certainly will with that sloppy grammar and syntax.


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Aarcuda69062 11 March 2005 05:17:06 [ permanent link ]
 In article <Ot2dnYabIuchK63fRV­n-ow@comcast.com>,
"maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message> news:nonelson-A743A­7.07414510032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> > In article <jPWdnfJ-KIdqjK3fRV­n-iw@comcast.com>,> > "maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:> >
I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?> >
Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one> > day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another> > day, it says something else.

Well, does it or doesn't it?
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Daniel J. Stern 11 March 2005 06:48:42 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
Your "pearls" will be right there swirling among all the other> grammatical errors, Daniel.>
"The manual has claimed "No fluid change is necessary" for decades now.> It was OK to follow this suggestion in the days of the overengineered,> bulletproof Torqueflite transmissions. With the electronic> transmissions, it's difficult to change the fluid often enough."

Alright, I'll bite. What grammatical errors do you think you see?
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Daniel J. Stern 11 March 2005 06:49:19 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
That's exactly what I plan to do unless I get an answer form Chrysler> engineering telling me it isn't necessary.

You really like to do things the hard way, eh?
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John Gregory 11 March 2005 07:32:30 [ permanent link ]
 Aw, Daniel. You don't REALLY wanna' do this do ya'? Alright. Here's a taste:



1) ".manual has claimed.." Manuals claim nothing; people and
institutions represented as "legal entities" claim things. Manuals are
inanimate objects.

2) " .for decades now." Which is it "decades" . or "now"? "Now" not
needed; adds nothing.

3) "..this suggestion". The manual is not a compilation of "suggestions".
A manual is a set of instructions.

4) ".change the fluid often enough". Awkward. "Enough"? There's
something called "too much" and "too little"? By what standard? You? The
manual? Not clear. Or did you mean something to the effect that "it's
difficult to know just when to change the fluid."?



That's enough. I quite. You're fine. J


"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503102148220.6698@a­lumni.engin.umich.ed­u...> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:>
Your "pearls" will be right there swirling among all the other>> grammatical errors, Daniel.>>
"The manual has claimed "No fluid change is necessary" for decades now.>> It was OK to follow this suggestion in the days of the overengineered,>> bulletproof Torqueflite transmissions. With the electronic>> transmissions, it's difficult to change the fluid often enough.">
Alright, I'll bite. What grammatical errors do you think you see?


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John Gregory 11 March 2005 07:34:40 [ permanent link ]
 I don't relish the thought, but often do find myself pushing on a rope.


"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503102149070.6698@a­lumni.engin.umich.ed­u...> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:>
That's exactly what I plan to do unless I get an answer form Chrysler>> engineering telling me it isn't necessary.>
You really like to do things the hard way, eh?


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Maxpower 11 March 2005 13:30:25 [ permanent link ]
 
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-479EA­A.19170510032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> In article <Ot2dnYabIuchK63fRV­n-ow@comcast.com>,> "maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:>
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal­.net> wrote in message> > news:nonelson-A743A­7.07414510032005@new­sclstr01.news.prodig­y.com...> > > In article <jPWdnfJ-KIdqjK3fRV­n-iw@comcast.com>,> > > "maxpower" <damnnickname@yahoo­.com> wrote:> > >
I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?> > >
Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one> > > day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another> > > day, it says something else.>
Well, does it or doesn't it?

Once again, My humble apologies, I forget that you have no common sense and
I have to spell things out., I will go out and find the stick... But may I
ask you this? where can I find one of the magical books!!!!


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Daniel J. Stern 11 March 2005 20:54:34 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
Aw, Daniel. You don't REALLY wanna' do this do ya'? Alright. Here's a taste:
1) ".manual has claimed.." Manuals claim nothing; people and> institutions represented as "legal entities" claim things. Manuals are> inanimate objects.

That's not a grammatical error, it's sophistry on your part. No points.
2) " .for decades now." Which is it "decades" . or "now"? "Now" not> needed; adds nothing.

The "now" does border on being redundant, but "For decades now", "for
years now", etc. is perfectly acceptable usage. Zero points.
3) "..this suggestion". The manual is not a compilation of> "suggestions". A manual is a set of instructions.

Sophistry. Zero points.
4) ".change the fluid often enough". Awkward.

"It is difficult to change the fluid often enough" is perfectly clear and
not at all awkward. Zero points.
That's enough. I quite.

You *what*, now?

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John Gregory 11 March 2005 21:15:15 [ permanent link ]
 Hardly sophistry... and you know it with such a weak defense.
But definitely a Sisyphean exercise to make you see otherwise. I saw it
coming. That's why I said "I quite".
Grammar AND syntax errors, Daniel. Your "Pearls." Lets get back to
mechanics. Your no English teacher... and that's OK.


"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0503111152050.16868@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:>
Aw, Daniel. You don't REALLY wanna' do this do ya'? Alright. Here's a >> taste:>
1) ".manual has claimed.." Manuals claim nothing; people and>> institutions represented as "legal entities" claim things. Manuals are>> inanimate objects.>
That's not a grammatical error, it's sophistry on your part. No points.>
2) " .for decades now." Which is it "decades" . or "now"? "Now" not>> needed; adds nothing.>
The "now" does border on being redundant, but "For decades now", "for> years now", etc. is perfectly acceptable usage. Zero points.>
3) "..this suggestion". The manual is not a compilation of>> "suggestions". A manual is a set of instructions.>
Sophistry. Zero points.>
4) ".change the fluid often enough". Awkward.>
"It is difficult to change the fluid often enough" is perfectly clear and> not at all awkward. Zero points.>
That's enough. I quite.>
You *what*, now?>


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Tnkev 11 March 2005 21:53:14 [ permanent link ]
 
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message
news:D­mkYd.6452$jW6­.5933@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...> Hardly sophistry... and you know it with such a weak defense.> But definitely a Sisyphean exercise to make you see otherwise. I saw it> coming. That's why I said "I quite".> Grammar AND syntax errors, Daniel. Your "Pearls." Lets get back to> mechanics. Your no English teacher... and that's OK.>
Wow! I didn't know we were being graded on our posts,and to think I thought
I was seeing "pearls" of knowledge.I guess I better find a group that
doesn't have such a strict instructor.I quite too!


Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 11 March 2005 22:26:27 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Larry Crites wrote:
Chilton's isn't that great.

The Chilton Labor Manual is not the same as the Harry Homeowner
screw-it-yerself guides from the same publisher.
Add comment
John Gregory 12 March 2005 00:11:10 [ permanent link ]
 :-)­ (smile) I didn't know I was bein' graded either. I was just tryin' ta'
find out a few things about my transmission then found myself in an English
class.Oh well. Ya' lives yer life an' hope fer the best.


"TNKEV" <TNKEV@hotmail.com>­ wrote in message
news:d0sm2o$vuk$1@d­omitilla.aioe.org...­>
"John Gregory" <jaygreg90@hotmail.­com> wrote in message> news:D­mkYd.6452$jW6­.5933@fe2.columbus.r­r.com...>> Hardly sophistry... and you know it with such a weak defense.>> But definitely a Sisyphean exercise to make you see otherwise. I saw it>> coming. That's why I said "I quite".>> Grammar AND syntax errors, Daniel. Your "Pearls." Lets get back to>> mechanics. Your no English teacher... and that's OK.>>
Wow! I didn't know we were being graded on our posts,and to think I > thought> I was seeing "pearls" of knowledge.I guess I better find a group that> doesn't have such a strict instructor.I quite too!>


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Bill Putney 12 March 2005 18:10:05 [ permanent link ]
 John Gregory wrote:> Hardly sophistry... and you know it with such a weak defense.> But definitely a Sisyphean exercise to make you see otherwise. I saw it > coming. That's why I said "I quite".> Grammar AND syntax errors, Daniel. Your "Pearls." Lets get back to > mechanics. Your no English teacher... and that's OK.

Hmmm - "...Your no English teacher...". A grammatical error, or more
master-baiting?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
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Guest 1 October 2005 09:00:57 [ permanent link ]
 Hi my name is Dan and I am an owner of a 2000 concorde and I had the same problem and I took it to the dealership where it was purcahsed and the technician ran a diagnostics on thew car and they told me that it was a sensor in the transmission. nut as I said before It was the identical problem I had. The speedometer did eventually work but only after I got the car back to freeway speed before I had the problem fixed.
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CarGuru > Chrysler > 2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission 1 October 2005 09:00:57
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