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Grand Caravan 93 3.3
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CarGuru > Chrysler > Grand Caravan 93 3.3 3 March 2005 01:05:39
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Grand Caravan 93 3.3

Ncs 21 February 2005 23:22:43
 Car died last night and I had it towed to the dealership. They diagnosed it
having an internal short in the PCM. They did get it started and but could
not guarantee for how long, they said I might hit a bump and it'll quit
again, so I'm thinking it might be a bad wire, loose connection.

Can anyone recommend an aftermarket store that sells a good, reliable
replacement PCM ? And does anyone have experience with one of these stores.
The dealer wants $685 for the job. I think I can get one cheaper and it
doesn't seem difficult to r&r. any thoughts ?

thanks,
Nick



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Ncs 22 February 2005 00:08:49 [ permanent link ]
 I've got an update. The dealership can get a part from the junk yard and
install it for $435 plus tax. I think I can get it from an online store for
between $ 200 and $250, probably with a warranty.

Nick


"ncs" <ncs@zoominternet.n­et> wrote in message news:421a35a4$1_1@1­27.0.0.1...> Car died last night and I had it towed to the dealership. They diagnosed > it having an internal short in the PCM. They did get it started and but > could not guarantee for how long, they said I might hit a bump and it'll > quit again, so I'm thinking it might be a bad wire, loose connection.>
Can anyone recommend an aftermarket store that sells a good, reliable > replacement PCM ? And does anyone have experience with one of these > stores. The dealer wants $685 for the job. I think I can get one cheaper > and it doesn't seem difficult to r&r. any thoughts ?>
thanks,> Nick>
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Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 22 February 2005 05:57:30 [ permanent link ]
 On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, ncs wrote:
would an intermittent crank sensor throw a trouble code ?

Yes.
Add comment
Tdodge 22 February 2005 09:59:21 [ permanent link ]
 i agree with daniel. i don't think its the sbecs that giving you problem.
i'm leaning towards crankshaft sensor. i've changed a few with similar
problem.

Add comment
Ncs 22 February 2005 17:18:03 [ permanent link ]
 Thanks tdodge and Daniel;

I'm taking your advice. To let it sit in the driveway is not going to solve
the problem. I may change the crankshaft sensor just to eliminate that
possibility. And get the paste for the electrical connections.

Do you think a bad crankshaft sensor would cause this problem, which was
somewhat resolved by R&R'ing the SBEC connector ? I really was hoping it
was something that finally died, like the sensor, but when it started again,
that blew my theory out the window.

thanks again,
Nick

"tdodge" <ronaldmanlangit200­3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d30b2d8130b6e­b2515cfa7f48491d8b@l­ocalhost.talkaboutau­tos.com...>i agree with daniel. i don't think its the sbecs that giving you problem.> i'm leaning towards crankshaft sensor. i've changed a few with similar> problem.>



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Geoff 22 February 2005 18:34:46 [ permanent link ]
 ncs wrote:> Car died last night and I had it towed to the dealership. They diagnosed it > having an internal short in the PCM. They did get it started and but could > not guarantee for how long, they said I might hit a bump and it'll quit > again, so I'm thinking it might be a bad wire, loose connection.>
Can anyone recommend an aftermarket store that sells a good, reliable > replacement PCM ? And does anyone have experience with one of these stores. > The dealer wants $685 for the job. I think I can get one cheaper and it > doesn't seem difficult to r&r. any thoughts ?>
thanks,> Nick>

http://car-part.com­
Add comment
Steve 22 February 2005 20:00:21 [ permanent link ]
 ncs wrote:> Thanks for the feedback. AllData also calls this component the PCM > (PowerTrain Control Module)

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that my 1993 LH car FSM also refers to it as a
PCM. I thought that Chrysler dropped the SMEC/SBEC terminology when they
went to multiple computers talking over the "CCD" bus ("Chrysler
Collistion Detection bus"). After that, you had PCM (Powertrain Control
module), TCM (Transmisison Controle Module), BCM (Bodly Control Module),
etc.
Add comment
Steve 22 February 2005 20:02:20 [ permanent link ]
 ncs wrote:
would an intermittent crank sensor throw a trouble code ?>

I have one data point (my wife's car- 1993 Vision TSI with a 3.5) where
the crank sensor did NOT throw a code. Made it darn frustrating to find
the problem- and it too was intermittent. The cam sensor immediately
throws a code, but not always the crank sensor.

Add comment
Ncs 22 February 2005 20:11:15 [ permanent link ]
 thanks, from all the feedback concerning this sensor, maybe the best route
is to simply replace it and eliminate that component.

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:bsKdnYrbHYYRyo­bfRVn-qQ@texas.net..­.> ncs wrote:>
would an intermittent crank sensor throw a trouble code ?>>
I have one data point (my wife's car- 1993 Vision TSI with a 3.5) where > the crank sensor did NOT throw a code. Made it darn frustrating to find > the problem- and it too was intermittent. The cam sensor immediately > throws a code, but not always the crank sensor.>



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Daniel J. Stern 22 February 2005 21:33:55 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, ncs wrote:
Do you think a bad crankshaft sensor would cause this problem, which was> somewhat resolved by R&R'ing the SBEC connector ?

Nope. If the crank (or any other) sensor were causing the problem, and the
problem went away with R&R of the SBEC connector, then it was by extreme
coincidence.

DS
Add comment
Ncs 22 February 2005 23:37:30 [ permanent link ]
 thanks, I thought it might be a stretch also.

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0502221233090.29587@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, ncs wrote:>
Do you think a bad crankshaft sensor would cause this problem, which was>> somewhat resolved by R&R'ing the SBEC connector ?>
Nope. If the crank (or any other) sensor were causing the problem, and the> problem went away with R&R of the SBEC connector, then it was by extreme> coincidence.>
DS



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Guest 24 February 2005 13:21:33 [ permanent link ]
 On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:41:10 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
<dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote:
It is really sad that 36 years after the first computer-controlled­ engine>appeared in North America, service managers are still telling customers>"Ooooh, it's...the *COMPUTER*! (-puter! -puter! -puter!)", and customers>are still believing it.>
DS

Hmm, 1969, what kind of vehicle is that?

(I would have guessed 1975 400)

Thanks.

Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 25 February 2005 00:04:15 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 clemslay@iname.com wrote:
It is really sad that 36 years after the first computer-controlled­> >engine appeared in North America, service managers are still telling> >customers "Ooooh, it's...the *COMPUTER*! (-puter! -puter! -puter!)",> >and customers are still believing it.
Hmm, 1969, what kind of vehicle is that?

A small number of European cars (VW...) appeared with an early version of
Bosch D-Jetronic EFI that year. Over the next few years, use of D-Jetronic
spread to include Mercedes and Volvo (both starting in '71) and others. GM
ripped off D-Jetronic so completely for their '77 Seville that many
components actually interchange.
(I would have guessed 1975 400)

400...?


DS
Add comment
Steve 25 February 2005 01:44:40 [ permanent link ]
 Daniel J. Stern wrote:
(I would have guessed 1975 400)>
400...?>

The first "Lean Burn" computer controlled engine was the 400, IIRC.
Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 25 February 2005 01:57:09 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Treeline wrote:
Before you apply the goo, you might want to clean things if you can.> I've used alcohol and files and screwdrivers and whatever else I can> on connections in general.

Pin-type connectors on engine computers generally respond well to a
dozen-pack of standard wooden pencils. Push the eraser straight down onto
each pin, then pull it straight up, move over to the next pin(s) and
repeat, changing to a new pencil when the eraser you're working with gets
tattered.
I've used the goo DS mentions on regular household connections and then> you can feel warm sockets become cool because the electrons are moving> more swiftly and happily.

I think the GB people who make Ox-Gard ought to replace their present
descriptive blurb with yours. :-)­

DS
Add comment
Bill Putney 25 February 2005 02:53:41 [ permanent link ]
 Daniel J. Stern wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Treeline wrote:>
Before you apply the goo, you might want to clean things if you can.>>I've used alcohol and files and screwdrivers and whatever else I can>>on connections in general.>
Pin-type connectors on engine computers generally respond well to a> dozen-pack of standard wooden pencils. Push the eraser straight down onto> each pin, then pull it straight up, move over to the next pin(s) and> repeat, changing to a new pencil when the eraser you're working with gets> tattered.>
I've used the goo DS mentions on regular household connections and then>>you can feel warm sockets become cool because the electrons are moving>>more swiftly and happily.>
I think the GB people who make Ox-Gard ought to replace their present> descriptive blurb with yours. :-)­

LOL! That's probably the description printed on the packaging of
Ox-Gard's Japanese competitor's product when packaged for sale in
English-speaking countries.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 25 February 2005 04:11:23 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
I've used the goo DS mentions on regular household connections and> >>then you can feel warm sockets become cool because the electrons are> >>moving more swiftly and happily.
I think the GB people who make Ox-Gard ought to replace their present> > descriptive blurb with yours. :-)­
LOL! That's probably the description printed on the packaging of> Ox-Gard's Japanese competitor's product when packaged for sale in> English-speaking countries.

Naw, that would read more like this:

It is the electron happiness in harmony. For results that can being the
finest, it is our recommending that: Never to squeeze these two times! If
you will applicate to the disrobed wire and then tightening, you will have
a happy feeling!

www.engrish.com

DS
Add comment
Guest 27 February 2005 12:19:33 [ permanent link ]
 

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:44:40 -0600, Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
The first "Lean Burn" computer controlled engine was the 400, IIRC.

That's right, Steve !

Thanks, Daniel !

Add comment
Guest 27 February 2005 15:40:14 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:11:23 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
<dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote:
www.engrish.com>
DS

I love it !
Thanks, Daniel.

It reminds me of spam from The Orient, translated
into English worse than Babelfish.

"This will give you partener multiple penises
with bigger orgasm for all!"

Add comment
Daniel J. Stern 27 February 2005 19:22:34 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 clemslay@iname.com wrote:
www.engrish.com
I love it !> Thanks, Daniel.>
It reminds me of spam from The Orient, translated> into English worse than Babelfish.

Same here. On a package of kelp: "It is the seaweed plant. The tastes is
offensive and fresh-delicious. The god for gnarl, goiter and."


Add comment
Ncs 28 February 2005 02:48:54 [ permanent link ]
 Ok, I found the Ox-Gard, took out the SBEC (PCM) or Engine Control Module,
took it out and checked the pins. They really looked very good, no
corrosion, shiny and clean. I applied the Ox-Gard and put it back together.
We'll see what happens. While I had the everything apart I checked the
wires pretty well and did not see any obvious problems. After I got it back
together, I started it up and again checked the wires and lightly tapped the
computer to see if I could cause the car to stop or at least skip a beat.
No luck, so I'll drive it and see if it stops again.

thanks,
Nick

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message
news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0502241504240.21890@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Treeline wrote:>
Before you apply the goo, you might want to clean things if you can.>> I've used alcohol and files and screwdrivers and whatever else I can>> on connections in general.>
Pin-type connectors on engine computers generally respond well to a> dozen-pack of standard wooden pencils. Push the eraser straight down onto> each pin, then pull it straight up, move over to the next pin(s) and> repeat, changing to a new pencil when the eraser you're working with gets> tattered.>
I've used the goo DS mentions on regular household connections and then>> you can feel warm sockets become cool because the electrons are moving>> more swiftly and happily.>
I think the GB people who make Ox-Gard ought to replace their present> descriptive blurb with yours. :-)­>
DS



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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Add comment


Daniel J. Stern 28 February 2005 07:07:56 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, ncs wrote:
Ok, I found the Ox-Gard, took out the SBEC (PCM) or Engine Control> Module, took it out and checked the pins. They really looked very good,> no corrosion, shiny and clean. I applied the Ox-Gard and put it back> together. We'll see what happens. While I had the everything apart I> checked the wires pretty well and did not see any obvious problems.> After I got it back together, I started it up and again checked the> wires and lightly tapped the computer to see if I could cause the car to> stop or at least skip a beat. No luck, so I'll drive it and see if it> stops again.

There y'go.

DS
Add comment
Ncs 3 March 2005 01:05:39 [ permanent link ]
 Update: I've also had a problem starting this van. I would have to turn
the key off and on 2 to 3 times before it would start. It would crank fine
but just not fire. After consulting with this board and nearly eliminating
all other issues, I was convinced I might have a leaking injector(s). But
since I applied the Ox-Gard and put it back together, the car starts on the
first key on. It still cranks a second or so, but I don't have to turn the
key off and back on a few times. The pins looked good. The only thing I
can think of is maybe some pin(s) were compressed together and not making a
good connection. I noticed the pin(s) are notched and maybe some were too
close together. Sounds like a long shot, but that's the only thing I did.
We'll see.

thanks,
Nick

"mic canic" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
news:42251756.94E18­C15@cac.net...> take a hair dryer to it and get it good and hot then it might act up>
ncs wrote:>
Ok, I found the Ox-Gard, took out the SBEC (PCM) or Engine Control >> Module,>> took it out and checked the pins. They really looked very good, no>> corrosion, shiny and clean. I applied the Ox-Gard and put it back >> together.>> We'll see what happens. While I had the everything apart I checked the>> wires pretty well and did not see any obvious problems. After I got it >> back>> together, I started it up and again checked the wires and lightly tapped >> the>> computer to see if I could cause the car to stop or at least skip a beat.>> No luck, so I'll drive it and see if it stops again.>>
thanks,>> Nick>>
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1>­ wrote in message>> news:P­ine.GSO.4.58.­0502241504240.21890@­alumni.engin.umich.e­du...>> > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Treeline wrote:>> >
Before you apply the goo, you might want to clean things if you can.>> >> I've used alcohol and files and screwdrivers and whatever else I can>> >> on connections in general.>> >
Pin-type connectors on engine computers generally respond well to a>> > dozen-pack of standard wooden pencils. Push the eraser straight down >> > onto>> > each pin, then pull it straight up, move over to the next pin(s) and>> > repeat, changing to a new pencil when the eraser you're working with >> > gets>> > tattered.>> >
I've used the goo DS mentions on regular household connections and >> >> then>> >> you can feel warm sockets become cool because the electrons are moving>> >> more swiftly and happily.>> >
I think the GB people who make Ox-Gard ought to replace their present>> > descriptive blurb with yours. :-)­>> >
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensore­d-Secure Usenet >> News==---->> http://www.newsfeed­s.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ >> Newsgroups>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption >> =---->



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CarGuru > Chrysler > Grand Caravan 93 3.3 3 March 2005 01:05:39
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