Yes, but could be like my Honda Accord. The engine was very quiet until > the cam and lifters began to fail at around 70K miles and then it got > very noisy. My Grand Voyager is a little noisier than the Honda was > when new, but it hasn't become appreciably more noisy in 162,000 miles!

So what'd they do - use the old GM technique of nitriding the cams? > Works great until the super-hard but micro-thin nitride layer wears thru > (at around 70 to 110k miles), then wears like butter.

Not surprisingly, Honda and Toyota were rated the tops in minivans though if > you really want those fold down seats, Consumer Reports gave Chrysler the > nod. The Chrysler did not do as well as Honda and Toyota on the drivetrain, > noise and ride.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, James C. Reeves wrote:>

NHTSA (the DOT) says "Automakers prefer to have the choice of color. Show> us a pile of dead bodies from red signals, heh heh heh, and we'll consider> mandating them, heh heh heh.">

Ford and GM say "There's no proof amber signals are better" (despite GM> having specifically illustrated the amber signals on the new-for-'01 Chev> truck in the promotional brochure and expounded on their "clearer> signal").>

American Honda says "Americans prefer red signals.">

Bill 2 wrote:

Can't think of a single bad one prior to the mid 90s when the 2.0 head> gasket fiasco happened. Not counting the Mitsubishi junk they sold,> Chrysler hand't had a flawed engine in the whole history of the company> until then.

A lot of people do, look a the proliferation of "M3" style aftermarket> taillights (look stock but with clear lens turn signal segments)

I agree, but I imagine it's cheaper to make a red lens that transmits> red light

Really the Germans are the only ones that I trust > for a "drive virtually forever" car (not counting older MoPar and other > well-engineered American cars) but even they have lately succumbed to > the disease of over-gatgetizing their vehicles to the point that they'd > be an absolute nightmare to troubleshoot 10-15 years down the road.

Never had a lick of trouble with that engine in the one my Dad had.

Yes, it was a buzzing gutless POS, but it ran longer than the rest of> the car did...

which isn't saying too much, come to think of it. ­

Of course, we can agree to blame VW for their shitty heater cores,

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:30:34 -0600> From: Steve <no@spam.thanks>> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.ch­rysler> Subject: Re: Consumer Reports rates minivans>

Art wrote:>

CR are idiots. Always have been, show no signs of changing.>

About here is where ol' Lloyd would pick up the CR torch.>

Did he die or something?>

--Geoff

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:46:46 -0600> From: Steve <no@spam.thanks>> Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.ch­rysler> Subject: Re: Consumer Reports rates minivans>

Probably finally realized that he doesn't have much reason to post here> since he hasn't owned a Chrysler product in years.>

Or got fired and lost his free internet access through Emory ­>

But hey, we've got Glickman as a replacement. And if nothing else at> least he's less predictable than Yoid was...>

­>