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Re: lets start the debate 2006 IS 350 vs. 330i
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CarGuru > BMW > Re: lets start the debate 2006 IS 350 vs. 330i 8 September 2005 05:54:25
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Re: lets start the debate 2006 IS 350 vs. 330i

Bfd 30 August 2005 01:44:38
 OK, is the lexus out yet?

Add comment
Ag 30 August 2005 04:20:42 [ permanent link ]
 not yet. I need to buy a new car and am thinking I don't want to spring
$50k. So that leaves out the 5 series and the M35/45 (which has gotten
great reviews), so I am looking at the 330 and the IS350. What I am finding
is that the 330 is very well rated from a "fun to drive" but Lexus is much
better in terms of quality, ease of use of the electronics, etc.

"bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125351878.918­775.112590@o13g2000c­wo.googlegroups.com.­..> OK, is the lexus out yet?>


Add comment
Grl 30 August 2005 04:25:56 [ permanent link ]
 From the car book reports, Lexus blew it again. This time the power is
better than the Bimmer, but the handling is just not there and, again, no
manual transmission. The manual transmission is important as a sign you are
serious about sporting machinery. You will only sell a small proportion as
manuals, but it tells everybody that you are serious. It is a MUST HAVE for
a Lexus given the comfy-car image Lexus has.

The 330i is no beauty and Lexus could have batted that one out of the park
in comparison, but they didn't and went ultra-bland, again. Not a car anyone
will dream about owning.

The tepid IS250 is a disgrace, by the way. Incredible lack of power, judging
by the published 0-60 times.

Finally, I am a huge Lexus fan. We have had an LS400 for 12 years and will
get an RX330 this year. Also own a E46 330i, so I know both brands well.
Lexus needs to get some serious sporting DNA in their bloodline and the new
IS does not look like it will do it.

I sure hope I'm wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

- nopcbs

"AG" <ageisse@sbcglobal.­net> wrote in message
news:urkQe.29$sF6.3­@newssvr24.news.prod­igy.net...>


Add comment
Ag 30 August 2005 04:40:15 [ permanent link ]
 I hope you are wrong also. I looked at the new 330 and drove it. It drives
great, but looks like a corolla from behind! I am going to drive the IS350
to see. It sure does have everything else well done: radio, IPOD
connection, Navagation system, etc. But I agree the magazines all say
"fast, nice to drive, but would rather drive the 3 series."


"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message
news:p­INQe.202$aR1.­35@fe07.lga...> From the car book reports, Lexus blew it again. This time the power is > better than the Bimmer, but the handling is just not there and, again, no > manual transmission. The manual transmission is important as a sign you > are serious about sporting machinery. You will only sell a small > proportion as manuals, but it tells everybody that you are serious. It is > a MUST HAVE for a Lexus given the comfy-car image Lexus has.>
The 330i is no beauty and Lexus could have batted that one out of the park > in comparison, but they didn't and went ultra-bland, again. Not a car > anyone will dream about owning.>
The tepid IS250 is a disgrace, by the way. Incredible lack of power, > judging by the published 0-60 times.>
Finally, I am a huge Lexus fan. We have had an LS400 for 12 years and will > get an RX330 this year. Also own a E46 330i, so I know both brands well. > Lexus needs to get some serious sporting DNA in their bloodline and the > new IS does not look like it will do it.>
I sure hope I'm wrong, but I strongly doubt it.>
- nopcbs>
"AG" <ageisse@sbcglobal.­net> wrote in message > news:urkQe.29$sF6.3­@newssvr24.news.prod­igy.net...>>


Add comment
Viperkiller 30 August 2005 09:01:50 [ permanent link ]
 On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:08:10 GMT, "AG" <ageisse@sbcglobal.­net> wrote:
The answer is neither. I'd rather have the upcoming GS hybrid.
Add comment
Mark Klebanoff 30 August 2005 13:13:12 [ permanent link ]
 On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:40:15 UTC, "AG" <ageisse@sbcglobal.­net> wrote:
I hope you are wrong also. I looked at the new 330 and drove it. It drives > great, but looks like a corolla from behind! I am going to drive the IS350 > to see. It sure does have everything else well done: radio, IPOD > connection, Navagation system, etc. But I agree the magazines all say > "fast, nice to drive, but would rather drive the 3 series.">

I have an 02 manual IS, and when I was looking I test drove a 330i.
I'd rather drive the BMW, but due to reliability I'd rather own the
Lexus. That will probably carry them again, but given the looks of the
330 and the lackof a stick (plus looks) in the IS, I'm hanging on to
my car at least until the next generations come out.
Add comment
Malt_Hound 30 August 2005 17:29:57 [ permanent link ]
 AG wrote:> not yet. I need to buy a new car and am thinking I don't want to spring > $50k. So that leaves out the 5 series and the M35/45 (which has gotten > great reviews), so I am looking at the 330 and the IS350. What I am finding > is that the 330 is very well rated from a "fun to drive" but Lexus is much > better in terms of quality, ease of use of the electronics, etc.>

Easy choice then: Do you want easy-to-use electronics or fun to drive
car. No brainer from this angle...

By the way, on the reliability front, if you buy the BMW, *all*
maintenance (including scheduled) is fully covered for the first 3 years.

--
-Fred W
Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here:
<http://users.adelp­hia.net/~fredwills/>­
Add comment
Malt_Hound 30 August 2005 17:36:52 [ permanent link ]
 GRL wrote:> From the car book reports, Lexus blew it again. This time the power is > better than the Bimmer, but the handling is just not there and, again, no > manual transmission. The manual transmission is important as a sign you are > serious about sporting machinery. You will only sell a small proportion as > manuals, but it tells everybody that you are serious.

I think a pretty large percentage of 3 series BMWs are sold with
standard transmissions. But this is the type of driver that a BMW
appeals to; one who wants to be *involved*.
It is a MUST HAVE for > a Lexus given the comfy-car image Lexus has.>
The 330i is no beauty

I think the E46s looked great. The E90's I'm not quite so enamored of.
and Lexus could have batted that one out of the park > in comparison, but they didn't and went ultra-bland, again. Not a car anyone > will dream about owning.>
The tepid IS250 is a disgrace, by the way. Incredible lack of power, judging > by the published 0-60 times.>
Finally, I am a huge Lexus fan. We have had an LS400 for 12 years and will > get an RX330 this year. Also own a E46 330i, so I know both brands well. > Lexus needs to get some serious sporting DNA in their bloodline and the new > IS does not look like it will do it.>
I sure hope I'm wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

I would tend to agree with you. But Lexus will still sell plenty to
their traditional Lexus customers. People that just want a cushy car
with a status symbol marquee.


--
-Fred W
Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here:
<http://users.adelp­hia.net/~fredwills/>­
Add comment
Dori A Schmetterling 30 August 2005 18:04:23 [ permanent link ]
 Funny that, in many countries that would be a Merc and/or possibly a BMW...

(Not all BMWs give a hard, difficult ride.)

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*sp­am-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote in message
news:xL-dnR_BP-lh_Y­neRVn-3Q@adelphia.co­m...

[...]

People that just want a cushy car> with a status symbol marquee.>
-- > -Fred W> Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here:> <http://users.adelp­hia.net/~fredwills/>­


Add comment
Tom K. 30 August 2005 19:38:52 [ permanent link ]
 
"Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*sp­am-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote in message
news:D­bSdnTNUR9XDwo­neRVn-vg@adelphia.co­m...> AG wrote:>> not yet. I need to buy a new car and am thinking I don't want to spring >> $50k. So that leaves out the 5 series and the M35/45 (which has gotten >> great reviews), so I am looking at the 330 and the IS350. What I am >> finding is that the 330 is very well rated from a "fun to drive" but >> Lexus is much better in terms of quality, ease of use of the electronics, >> etc.>>
Easy choice then: Do you want easy-to-use electronics or fun to drive > car. No brainer from this angle...>
By the way, on the reliability front, if you buy the BMW, *all* > maintenance (including scheduled) is fully covered for the first 3 years.>

Now 4 years/50,000 miles coverage (since about 2003).

Tom


Add comment
Dizzy 31 August 2005 03:12:05 [ permanent link ]
 On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:25:56 -0400, "GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET>
wrote:
From the car book reports, Lexus blew it again. This time the power is >better than the Bimmer, but the handling is just not there and, again, no >manual transmission. The manual transmission is important as a sign you are >serious about sporting machinery. You will only sell a small proportion as >manuals, but it tells everybody that you are serious. It is a MUST HAVE for >a Lexus given the comfy-car image Lexus has.>
The 330i is no beauty and Lexus could have batted that one out of the park >in comparison, but they didn't and went ultra-bland, again. Not a car anyone >will dream about owning.

Can't disagree with any of that, but I'll test drive one, to see if
they've gotten closer to the (IMO) perfect ride/handling compromise of
the BMW sport-suspension. If so, I'll have to consider it,
considering the cost savings...

Add comment
Grl 31 August 2005 08:13:20 [ permanent link ]
 My Car and Driver and Road & Track both came today. Both had tests of the
IS350, the CD one being a comparison with the usual suspects.

Naturally, the 330i won the CD comparison with the IS coming in second
followed by G35. IS problem was too much luxo and not enough sport.
Basically the conclusion in the RT review was the same, with the new car
seen as moving more toward the GS and away from the 330i.

CD had their IS350 doing 0-60 in 5.1 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.7 at
104 mph leaving all competitors for dead. That is getting into M3 territory
and SERIOUSLY quick. (The mind boggles at what it would do with a good
manual box and a skilled driver.) The 330i (manual six-speed) took a
disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60. Interestingly, if not surprisingly, the
330i had numerous electrical problems during the test. Evidence that you do
NOT want a first year Bimmer under any circumstances.

So, once again Lexus has no serious 3-series competitor. A pity, as I was
hoping there would be that option if my E46 starts to cause trouble.

Sigh.

- GRL


"AG" <ageisse@sbcglobal.­net> wrote in message
news:urkQe.29$sF6.3­@newssvr24.news.prod­igy.net...>


Add comment
Zerouali 31 August 2005 13:53:15 [ permanent link ]
 Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota
(Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­


Add comment
Dori A Schmetterling 31 August 2005 14:24:30 [ permanent link ]
 What planet are you/they on? The vast majority of drivers would be
delighted even with 7 seconds...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message
news:C7aRe.20873$1g­2.11198@fe05.lga...
[...]> disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60.
[...]


Add comment
David 31 August 2005 16:33:14 [ permanent link ]
 
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message
news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota > (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­
Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)


Add comment
Dori A Schmetterling 31 August 2005 17:48:10 [ permanent link ]
 InfinitI.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"David" <drnall@comcast.net­> wrote in message
news:gfudnXhPy9QXPo­jeRVn-uA@comcast.com­...>
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message > news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..>> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota >> (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­> Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)>


Add comment
Zerouali 31 August 2005 20:27:17 [ permanent link ]
 "David" <drnall@comcast.net­> wrote in message
news:gfudnXhPy9QXPo­jeRVn-uA@comcast.com­...>
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message > news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..>> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota >> (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­> Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)>
Oops, I stand corrected! But my point still stands! ;-}


Add comment
Dizzy 1 September 2005 02:19:42 [ permanent link ]
 On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:13:20 -0400, "GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET>
wrote:
CD had their IS350 doing 0-60 in 5.1 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.7 at >104 mph leaving all competitors for dead. That is getting into M3 territory >and SERIOUSLY quick. (The mind boggles at what it would do with a good >manual box and a skilled driver.) The 330i (manual six-speed) took a >disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60

I took an E90 330i for a test drive today! The power was pretty
disappointing - it didn't FEEL much faster than my 323i. And talk
about "too much luxo" - WAY too quiet an exhaust note. It's takes a
lot of fun out of having a manual, when you can't hardly hear the dang
engine. The clutch take-up and brakes were both quite touchy. It had
that great ride and handling that you'd expect, but other than that, I
thought it lacked in the "sport" department.

Add comment
Grl 1 September 2005 05:37:01 [ permanent link ]
 Earth. How about you?

What are you talking about, anyway? Lexus builds a 5 second 0-60 car, CD
tests it and gets that result. I write what they got.

So what bothers you about that?

Believe it or not there are people who like really quick cars. You number
yourself among those that don't? That's your business. Those cars are not
meant for you anyway.

Sheesh!

- nopcbs

"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43158561$0$137­04$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­ What planet are you/they on? The vast majority of drivers would be > delighted even with 7 seconds...>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling> --->
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message > news:C7aRe.20873$1g­2.11198@fe05.lga...>­ [...]>> disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60.> [...]>


Add comment
Grl 1 September 2005 05:40:13 [ permanent link ]
 You're right. The Lexus and Infiniti are way quicker and more reliable than
the more expensive Bimmer.

Silly comparison, as you say.

I'll bet Car and Driver will be embarrassed when they hear what you wrote.

- nopcbs
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message
news:df4lov$a8g$1@n­ews8.svr.pol.co.uk..­.> "David" <drnall@comcast.net­> wrote in message > news:gfudnXhPy9QXPo­jeRVn-uA@comcast.com­...>>
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message >> news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..>>> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota >>> (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­>> Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)>>
Oops, I stand corrected! But my point still stands! ;-}>


Add comment
Zerouali 1 September 2005 13:57:13 [ permanent link ]
 You sound mighty confused, you posted previously how Lexus has no 3 series
competitor, yet here you are trying to say they are better?

As the engine in the Lexus is 500cc more, I hope they could get more power
out of it than the 3 litre 330. Why not compare it to the 3.2 M3 too see
what BMW can really do with an engine, after all, the IS 350 is the top of
the range for Lexus, isn't it?

But as you said yourself ,"but the handling is just not there .....went
ultra-bland, again. Not a car anyone will dream about owning.....Lexus needs
to get some serious sporting DNA in their bloodline and the new IS does not
look like it will do it"

So what is it to be? The Lexus is better, the BMW is better, or you just
like arguing?

"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message
news:3_sRe.20980$1g­2.14266@fe05.lga...>­ You're right. The Lexus and Infiniti are way quicker and more reliable > than the more expensive Bimmer.>
Silly comparison, as you say.>
I'll bet Car and Driver will be embarrassed when they hear what you wrote.>
- nopcbs> "zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message > news:df4lov$a8g$1@n­ews8.svr.pol.co.uk..­.>> "David" <drnall@comcast.net­> wrote in message >> news:gfudnXhPy9QXPo­jeRVn-uA@comcast.com­...>>>
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message >>> news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..>>>> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota >>>> (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­>>> Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)>>>­
Oops, I stand corrected! But my point still stands! ;-}>>


Add comment


Dori A Schmetterling 1 September 2005 15:25:37 [ permanent link ]
 And there are cars that get there even quicker. So? I am querying the word
"disappointing" which the reviewer used.

In the real world 6 s is far quicker than the VAST majority of cars in use.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message
news:3XsRe.20979$1g­2.19853@fe05.lga...>­ Earth. How about you?>
What are you talking about, anyway? Lexus builds a 5 second 0-60 car, CD > tests it and gets that result. I write what they got.>
So what bothers you about that?>
Believe it or not there are people who like really quick cars. You number > yourself among those that don't? That's your business. Those cars are not > meant for you anyway.>
Sheesh!>
- nopcbs>
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > news:43158561$0$137­04$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­> What planet are you/they on? The vast majority of drivers would be >> delighted even with 7 seconds...>>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>> --->>
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message >> news:C7aRe.20873$1g­2.11198@fe05.lga...>­> [...]>>> disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60.>> [...]>>


Add comment
Oldun 1 September 2005 15:38:23 [ permanent link ]
 There is no such thing as a "better" car. A car can be better at... or
better this or better that,
The best car for you is the one that is better in your mind, which does
whatever you want. Be it faster, better handling, more comfortable, more
reliable, cheaper etc.
If you like BMWs then that is your best car.
If you like Lexus' then that is your best car,
The whole question was really quite stupid in my opinion.

Oldun



Add comment


Oldun 1 September 2005 15:42:37 [ permanent link ]
 Now if the question was "which is the fastest car" then a test would answer
the question. Depending on whether you compare them in a drag race or a race
along a twisty mountain road.

Oldun


Add comment
Grl 2 September 2005 04:52:58 [ permanent link ]
 ...but way slower than the 5.1 the IS350 got and in the expensive sport
sedan market both cars compete in that is a huge difference. And as I said,
that puts the $40,000 (well equipped) IS350 very close to the $50,000+ M3 in
acceleration. And yeah, that's big, too.

Now, you are quite right that either car is much quicker than the average
car, but so what? These car makers are not targeting the average car buyer
who would never consider $40,000 for a 4-passenger sedan, they are targeting
an audience for which quickness like that is important. And the Lexus is
better at it.

End of discussion.

Sheesh.

- nopcbs
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4316e535$0$137­01$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­ And there are cars that get there even quicker. So? I am querying the > word "disappointing" which the reviewer used.>
In the real world 6 s is far quicker than the VAST majority of cars in > use.>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling> --->
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message > news:3XsRe.20979$1g­2.19853@fe05.lga...>­> Earth. How about you?>>
What are you talking about, anyway? Lexus builds a 5 second 0-60 car, CD >> tests it and gets that result. I write what they got.>>
So what bothers you about that?>>
Believe it or not there are people who like really quick cars. You number >> yourself among those that don't? That's your business. Those cars are not >> meant for you anyway.>>
Sheesh!>>
- nopcbs>>
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:43158561$0$137­04$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­>> What planet are you/they on? The vast majority of drivers would be >>> delighted even with 7 seconds...>>>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>>> --->>>
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message >>> news:C7aRe.20873$1g­2.11198@fe05.lga...>­>> [...]>>>> disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60.>>> [...]>>>


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Dori A Schmetterling 2 September 2005 13:51:00 [ permanent link ]
 Put that way I suppose you have a point and I give in :-)­

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message
news:MnNRe.7224$aR1­.4491@fe07.lga...> ...but way slower than the 5.1 the IS350 got and in the expensive sport > sedan market both cars compete in that is a huge difference. And as I > said, that puts the $40,000 (well equipped) IS350 very close to the > $50,000+ M3 in acceleration. And yeah, that's big, too.>
Now, you are quite right that either car is much quicker than the average > car, but so what? These car makers are not targeting the average car buyer > who would never consider $40,000 for a 4-passenger sedan, they are > targeting an audience for which quickness like that is important. And the > Lexus is better at it.>
End of discussion.>
Sheesh.>
- nopcbs> "Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message > news:4316e535$0$137­01$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­> And there are cars that get there even quicker. So? I am querying the >> word "disappointing" which the reviewer used.>>
In the real world 6 s is far quicker than the VAST majority of cars in >> use.>>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>> --->>
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message >> news:3XsRe.20979$1g­2.19853@fe05.lga...>­>> Earth. How about you?>>>
What are you talking about, anyway? Lexus builds a 5 second 0-60 car, CD >>> tests it and gets that result. I write what they got.>>>
So what bothers you about that?>>>
Believe it or not there are people who like really quick cars. You >>> number yourself among those that don't? That's your business. Those cars >>> are not meant for you anyway.>>>
Sheesh!>>>
- nopcbs>>>
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:43158561$0$137­04$cc9e4d1f@news-tex­t.dial.pipex.com...>­>>> What planet are you/they on? The vast majority of drivers would be >>>> delighted even with 7 seconds...>>>>
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling>>>> --->>>>
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message >>>> news:C7aRe.20873$1g­2.11198@fe05.lga...>­>>> [...]>>>>> disappointing 6.0 seconds to 60.>>>> [...]>>>>


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GLitwinski 3 September 2005 03:27:40 [ permanent link ]
 Nope, not confused just honest w.r.t. both brands. (I own an LS400 and an
E46 zhp.) As a small luxury sedan with some sporting aspects, the IS350
beats the 330i severely about the head and shoulders. For balls-out
acceleration the Lexus wins with no sweat. For reliability Lexus winds hands
down. For looks I think it's a coin toss. Lexus is bland, BMW E90 is not
bland, but not good, either. For ultimate handling and driver involvement
(and manual gear box), the Bimmer wins big. And for a sports sedan with
luxury attributes that last is probably the most important thing. But not
every 3-series or IS buyer is really that interested in the best handling
and most fun to drive. For many (I suspect most since even for BMW, few cars
are sold in the U.S. with manuals compared with autos), the luxury and
reliability aspect tilt the balance most.

As I recall, you said something to the effect that the Japanese brands
cannot even be considered in comparison with the German brands. That's utter
nonsense and that's what I object to in your post. Both IS350 and G35 are
worthy competitors that are superior to the 330i in some ways and inferior
in others and probably slightly inferior overall (until the Bimmer breaks).

Comparing an M3 with an IS350 would be a swell idea if BMW would lower
prices by some ten to fifteen thousand dollars and I grant you, for those
who will tolerate a teeth chattering ride the Bimmer would be the better
car, but since BMW is reluctant to do that, we need to compare apples with
apples or someone will accuse of silliness. We can wait for the new V8 M3
and the(rumored) V8 IS and see how they compare. (I'd guess the BMW will be
better, but way more expensive.)


"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message
news:df6j9i$agh$1@n­ews7.svr.pol.co.uk..­.> You sound mighty confused, you posted previously how Lexus has no 3 series > competitor, yet here you are trying to say they are better?>
As the engine in the Lexus is 500cc more, I hope they could get more power > out of it than the 3 litre 330. Why not compare it to the 3.2 M3 too see > what BMW can really do with an engine, after all, the IS 350 is the top of > the range for Lexus, isn't it?>
But as you said yourself ,"but the handling is just not there .....went > ultra-bland, again. Not a car anyone will dream about owning.....Lexus > needs to get some serious sporting DNA in their bloodline and the new IS > does not look like it will do it">
So what is it to be? The Lexus is better, the BMW is better, or you just > like arguing?>
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTER­MI.NET> wrote in message > news:3_sRe.20980$1g­2.14266@fe05.lga...>­> You're right. The Lexus and Infiniti are way quicker and more reliable >> than the more expensive Bimmer.>>
Silly comparison, as you say.>>
I'll bet Car and Driver will be embarrassed when they hear what you >> wrote.>>
- nopcbs>> "zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message >> news:df4lov$a8g$1@n­ews8.svr.pol.co.uk..­.>>> "David" <drnall@comcast.net­> wrote in message >>> news:gfudnXhPy9QXPo­jeRVn-uA@comcast.com­...>>>>
"zerouali" <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote in message >>>> news:df3um5$jsb$1@n­ewsm1.svr.pol.co.uk.­..>>>>> Only in America would you even think of comparing an overpriced Toyota >>>>> (Lexus) or Honda (Infinity) to a BMW! ;-)­>>>> Honda(Acura) or Nissan(Infinity)>>>­>
Oops, I stand corrected! But my point still stands! ;-}>>>


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GLitwinski 3 September 2005 03:30:29 [ permanent link ]
 Never saw a car book test yet where acceleration was testing in any way
other than a straight line. We should respect that tradition even if our ox
is getting gored as a result.

- nopcbs
"Oldun" <wjoxofrancis@tisca­li.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4316e92f$1_1@m­k-nntp-2.news.uk.tis­cali.com...> Now if the question was "which is the fastest car" then a test would > answer> the question. Depending on whether you compare them in a drag race or a > race> along a twisty mountain road.>
Oldun>


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Dizzy 3 September 2005 04:57:39 [ permanent link ]
 On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:57:13 +0100, "zerouali"
<zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote:
As the engine in the Lexus is 500cc more, I hope they could get more power >out of it than the 3 litre 330. Why not compare it to the 3.2 M3 too see >what BMW can really do with an engine, after all, the IS 350 is the top of >the range for Lexus, isn't it?

Well, that's hardly fair, as the price of the M3 is so much higher.
Obviously, more money can buy you more power, for any given
displacement.

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Dizzy 3 September 2005 05:01:02 [ permanent link ]
 On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:27:40 -0700, "GLitwinski"
<GLitwinski@charter­mi.net> wrote:
For ultimate handling and driver involvement >(and manual gear box), the Bimmer wins big. And for a sports sedan with >luxury attributes that last is probably the most important thing. But not >every 3-series or IS buyer is really that interested in the best handling >and most fun to drive. For many (I suspect most since even for BMW, few cars >are sold in the U.S. with manuals compared with autos), the luxury and >reliability aspect tilt the balance most.

Well, we'll see. The ultimate proof there is the sales, and I'd bet
the farm that the 3 will continue to out-sell the IS many times over.
That said, I'm certainly considering the IS.

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Oldun 4 September 2005 02:04:49 [ permanent link ]
 Since when did I say anything different eh!
But if you are talking about the fastest car, do you mean the fastest
accelerating or the fastest top speed?
In the real world the fastest is the car which gets round the track the
quickest.

Oldun
"GLitwinski" <GLitwinski@charter­mi.net> wrote in message
news:vg5Se.18867$ih­4.15371@fe02.lga...
Never saw a car book test yet where acceleration was testing in any way
other than a straight line. We should respect that tradition even if our ox
is getting gored as a result.

- nopcbs
"Oldun" <wjoxofrancis@tisca­li.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4316e92f$1_1@m­k-nntp-2.news.uk.tis­cali.com...> Now if the question was "which is the fastest car" then a test would> answer> the question. Depending on whether you compare them in a drag race or a> race> along a twisty mountain road.>
Oldun>



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Guest 4 September 2005 04:11:55 [ permanent link ]
 I saw one at the 2005 US Open. It was on Display with the doors open so
that anyone could step in and take a look.
Looks nice but very Corolla-ish exterior.
The interior (black) was too monochrome. The leather was nice. I prefer
BMW's wood accents to the totally monochrome IS350 interior.
As a separate note I should say that the doors shut with a "germanic"
thud which is first for any japanese car.
Also, Even though there were hundreds of people around only a handfull
were looking at the car on the display. I guess it's not very
eye-catching or maybe it's just not what US buyers are looking for.

CZ

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GLitwinski 4 September 2005 05:36:18 [ permanent link ]
 We were talking about acceleration, remember. Acceleration is always tested
in a straight line. Top speed is pretty much meaningless accept for bragging
rights, if one cares about that sort of thing. Precious few cars are ever
driven at their top speed...just no place to do it unless you have a very
slow car. Acceleration can be used daily by anyone pretty much anywhere.

Thanks for the discussion, but I've had enough of the subject.

Good day to you.

- GRL
"Oldun" <wjoxofrancis@tisca­li.co.uk> wrote in message
news:431a1e02_2@mk-­nntp-2.news.uk.tisca­li.com...> Since when did I say anything different eh!> But if you are talking about the fastest car, do you mean the fastest> accelerating or the fastest top speed?> In the real world the fastest is the car which gets round the track the> quickest.>
Oldun> "GLitwinski" <GLitwinski@charter­mi.net> wrote in message> news:vg5Se.18867$ih­4.15371@fe02.lga...>­ Never saw a car book test yet where acceleration was testing in any way> other than a straight line. We should respect that tradition even if our > ox> is getting gored as a result.>
- nopcbs> "Oldun" <wjoxofrancis@tisca­li.co.uk> wrote in message> news:4316e92f$1_1@m­k-nntp-2.news.uk.tis­cali.com...>> Now if the question was "which is the fastest car" then a test would>> answer>> the question. Depending on whether you compare them in a drag race or a>> race>> along a twisty mountain road.>>
Oldun>>


Add comment
Zerouali 5 September 2005 01:17:00 [ permanent link ]
 
"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.inval­id> wrote in message
news:koeih11jdo92ec­83h914gj736b11rmo1nm­@4ax.com...> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:57:13 +0100, "zerouali"> <zeroualinospam@fre­euk.com> wrote:>
As the engine in the Lexus is 500cc more, I hope they could get more power>>out of it than the 3 litre 330. Why not compare it to the 3.2 M3 too see>>what BMW can really do with an engine, after all, the IS 350 is the top of>>the range for Lexus, isn't it?>
Well, that's hardly fair, as the price of the M3 is so much higher.> Obviously, more money can buy you more power, for any given> displacement.>
Hence the phrase "You get what you pay for" ;-)­


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Jack Dotson 5 September 2005 22:47:47 [ permanent link ]
 
Just bought a 06 325i a little over a week ago and couldn't be happier.
There are many little things on the BMW that aren't readily apparent until
you really look at them. I was looking for a sport luxury in the 35 grand
range and I searched long and hard. In the end I narrowed my choices to the
3 and G-35, as most do. IMO the new I-350 still misses the mark, if that
mark is the BMW-3's. IMO the look of the 350 is still not as good as G or 3
(looks allot like their GS to me). Allot of people don't like the look of
the new 3, I do. And, I think the G's also look awesome. The power seems
to be pretty good, but only in the 350. The 250 is less than the 325i and
the torqe is not close. You can disable the stability control on the 3's,
but not on the IS. Important to some, me included, but not to others. The
cabin can't compare to BMW's. The one thing that really swung me to the
Bimmer was the interior. Hard to explain, but to me it just felt much
better than the G-35 and the pictures of the IS look even worse than the G.
The IS also doesn't have the almost perfect weight distribution of the
Bimmer's. The G is close, but still no cigar.

I'm 48 years old and wanted the best mix of performance, fun to drive, looks
and luxury. To me the 325i (or 330) hit the mark closer than the rest. The
seats on the 3's are fantastic and the ride, while still a little harsh
(which your going to have to have to get good performance), is more refined
than before. Some don't like this, but I was told the ride was softened
just a tad because the run flat tires which make for a harder ride. I drove
the sport and regular models and the sport does perform better, but he ride
is also much harsher. Some are willing to put up with it for the
performance, I'm not. Just depends on what your looking for. I wish BMW
would have offered the bigger tires and rims that come with the 330i as an
option for the 325i without having to get the sport supension. They really
look great. BTW, I chose the 325i with premium package, Xenon headlights,
and A/T.

You can read and read, but until you drive test each car it will be hard for
you to make your decision. I drove the Bimmer's last and made my mind up
immediately. I do have to admit that I still think about the G-35, but I
only like to coupe. Not on par with 3's for handling, comfort, ride and
overall refinement. Don't have a six speed A/T available, etc. But, they
are still one heck of a car and they are nipping at the heel of BMW, and
hard. I can certainly see why many choose these car's. Did I mention they
are fast?

I'll reserve final judgement until I get to drive the new I's, but I really
don't think it's going to be able to compare to the 3's or the G's. Looks
better than the last model, but still just not what I was looking for.


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Ron M. 8 September 2005 05:54:25 [ permanent link ]
 <costasz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125792714.979­244.223250@z14g2000c­wz.googlegroups.com.­..> I saw one at the 2005 US Open. It was on Display with the doors open so> that anyone could step in and take a look.> Looks nice but very Corolla-ish exterior.> The interior (black) was too monochrome. The leather was nice. I prefer> BMW's wood accents to the totally monochrome IS350 interior.> As a separate note I should say that the doors shut with a "germanic"> thud which is first for any japanese car.> Also, Even though there were hundreds of people around only a handfull> were looking at the car on the display. I guess it's not very> eye-catching or maybe it's just not what US buyers are looking for.>
CZ

That's because the largest percentage of U.S. buyers are still more
interested in SUVs--regardless of the fact that gas prices will eventually
soar even higher in this country.

Ron M.


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CarGuru > BMW > Re: lets start the debate 2006 IS 350 vs. 330i 8 September 2005 05:54:25
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