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Guess What (follow-up)?
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CarGuru > Audi > Guess What (follow-up)? 23 April 2005 02:22:58

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Guess What (follow-up)?

JP Roberts 23 April 2005 02:22:58
 (Follows on from "Guess What?".)

Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods
replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the
original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after
dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me that
while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on
Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before), the
German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very
kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both
tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate
prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,
including labour.

I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it
ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?

So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had all
of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front end
for $1000..

I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other
ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100
miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their
customers.

JP Roberts



Add comment
Wolfgang Pawlinetz 20 April 2005 17:03:38 permanent link ]
 JP Roberts wrote:
dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me that >while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on >Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before), the >German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very >kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both >tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate >prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800, >including labour.

What about warranty on the first repair/exchange job? Was it already
expired?
miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their >customers.

US customers.. ?

Well, just to drop another view in:

My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
re-adjusted timing etc.

The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
was washed and cleaned inside every time.

During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
contribution of 15 Euros.

Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
there anyway.

And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
(pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.

I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
relation.

Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
the complaints which get sorted out here.

Regards

Wolfgang
Add comment
Steve Sears 20 April 2005 17:50:32 permanent link ]
 JP,
I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who is
mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the extra 100
miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what the rep
of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of the
dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy treatment.
If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not continue with
them?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d45frn$ob8$1@n­ews.ya.com...> (Follows on from "Guess What?".)>
Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods> replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the> original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after> dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me
that> while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on> Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before),
German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very> kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both> tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate> prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,> including labour.>
I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it> ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?>
So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had all> of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front
for $1000..>
I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other> ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100> miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their> customers.>
JP Roberts>


Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 18:33:39 permanent link ]
 I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're
getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that this
should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the
make - read dealer.

"Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESs­oil-mat.on.ca> escribió en el mensaje
news:J8t9e.10819$Jg­5.682964@news20.bell­global.com...> JP,> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who is> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the extra > 100> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what the rep> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of the> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy treatment.> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not continue > with> them?> Cheers!> Steve Sears> 1987 Audi 5kTQ> 1980 Audi 5k> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)>
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:d45frn$ob8$1@n­ews.ya.com...>> (Follows on from "Guess What?".)>>
Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods>> replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the>> original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after>> dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me> that>> while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up >> on>> Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before),> the>> German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very>> kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both>> tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate>> prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,>> including labour.>>
I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it>> ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?>>
So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had >> all>> of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front> end>> for $1000..>>
I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other>> ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100>> miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their>> customers.>>
JP Roberts>>


Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 18:52:02 permanent link ]
 I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and> re-adjusted timing etc.>
The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car> was washed and cleaned inside every time.>
During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic> contribution of 15 Euros.>
Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been> there anyway.>
And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.>
I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance> relation.>
Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's> the complaints which get sorted out here.>
Regards>
Wolfgang


Add comment
Guest 20 April 2005 19:56:46 permanent link ]
 
Steve Sears wrote:> JP,> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who
mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the
extra 100> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what
the rep> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of
dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy
treatment.> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not
continue with> them?

This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no
matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is
at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,
somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were
under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying
work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do
with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering
(which is still a maybe.)

I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made
known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know
where *not* to go.

It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That
way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,
they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his
truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't
break down. :)­ Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.

In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,
however, is.

E.P.

Add comment
Guest 20 April 2005 19:58:40 permanent link ]
 
JP Roberts wrote:> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
you're> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that
this> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by
make - read dealer.

But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done
it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in
you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.

E.P.

Add comment
Guest 20 April 2005 20:05:52 permanent link ]
 
Wolfgang Pawlinetz wrote:>
Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned.

That's true. With my recent fuel pump follies, my independent was
quite embarrassed about not finding the problem, even with all the
billing he did. It was all legit - he spent time trying to track down
an intermittent problem. It just so happened that it finally failed
away from his shop. I have always been happy with my mechanic - he
does a great job at low prices, and if he goofs, he covers out of his
own pocket. All of our high-mileage Audis have been solid, and even
though the parts are somewhat expensive, they are no worse that the
same parts for Japanese cars. While I'm not a big fan of dealerships
in general (high rates, 100% book-time charges), a few of the
relatively local ones have been very helpful in sorting minor DIY
stuff. Like how to replace bulbs when the mounting hardware is not as
simple as it first appears.

JPR's dealer sounds like a place to avoid, but they are not *all* like
that...

E.P.

Add comment
Steve Sears 20 April 2005 20:13:08 permanent link ]
 JP,
I'd love a warranty like that on the rear transverse links on my 5ktq - I've
had to replace them a couple of times in the past few years. It may be true
that the front links were underdesigned.....s­ome revisions to the design and
a silent warranty may have been applied to the underdesign......bu­t a
lifetime warranty?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d45q8d$6j0$1@n­ews.ya.com...> I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on> the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is> clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better
treatment> than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were
clearly> underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.> Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have
some> experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is> basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.


Add comment
Steve Sears 20 April 2005 21:16:36 permanent link ]
 JP,
Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while back
under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their ducks in
a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are indeed a
wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take your
complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than most -
at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be
unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with parts
purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or
not).
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d45p62$s4$1@ne­ws.ya.com...> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that this> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the> make - read dealer.>


Add comment
Graham 20 April 2005 22:06:07 permanent link ]
 X-no-archive: yes
JP Roberts wrote:> the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is> clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment > than in Europe.

I'd be interested to know how you arrived at that conclusion.
Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 23:38:29 permanent link ]
 
"Graham" <me@privacy.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:3cnk01F6p07o8U­1@individual.net...>­ X-no-archive: yes> JP Roberts wrote:>> the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is>> clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better >> treatment than in Europe.>
I'd be interested to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

Just conduct a number of random searches on www.audiworld.com on the subject
of dealerships, or more specifically "stealerships" as they are commonly
referred to.


Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 23:44:14 permanent link ]
 
JPR's dealer sounds like a place to avoid, but they are not *all* like> that...

Phoned the closest dearlership apart from "mine", which is 50 miles from
this (therefore the 100-mile trip) and they told me the same story in terms
of the make only covering those items for which there was a current
campaign. Well, I think this is very bad; you only need to think of what
happens if you miss that recall letter - which I incidentally have not yet
received for the current lower arm recall. The little *** know perfectly
well it's hardly ever the lower arms that go, but the upper ones, that's why
they're doing the campaign on the lower ones.

I feel utterly disappointed and cheated, especially as this is fairly common
practice as I've got to know now.


Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 23:48:46 permanent link ]
 They should have been replaced, but with these so called "campaigns", if the
dealer does happen to have the necessary time to check during a routinely
service, and I'm assuming they do, it still takes some "free play" or
whatever other sypmtoms for them to have the parts replaced. Now, if they
know these to be faulty I find that is only adding insult to injury as they
should all be replaced automatically in every single instance.


"Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESs­oil-mat.on.ca> escribió en el mensaje
news:W9w9e.10945$Jg­5.711668@news20.bell­global.com...> JP,> Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while > back> under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their ducks > in> a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are indeed a> wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take > your> complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than most -> at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be> unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with > parts> purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or> not).> Cheers!> Steve Sears> 1987 Audi 5kTQ> 1980 Audi 5k> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)>
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:d45p62$s4$1@ne­ws.ya.com...>> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're>> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that >> this>> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the>> make - read dealer.>>


Add comment
JP Roberts 20 April 2005 23:55:40 permanent link ]
 
This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no> matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is> at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,> somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were> under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying> work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do> with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering> (which is still a maybe.)>
I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made> known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know> where *not* to go.>
It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That> way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,> they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his> truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't> break down. :)­ Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.>
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,> however, is.>

I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts, you'll
realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically replace all
faulty parts. To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop
his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently and
ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see when
a Japanese make is involved, and I should think no other German
manufacturers would dare live up to such preposterous standards. I feel it's
especially disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars in the
belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always know
Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.


Add comment
Wolfgang Pawlinetz 21 April 2005 00:14:41 permanent link ]
 JP Roberts wrote:
I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts, you'll >realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically replace all >faulty parts.

Not only Audi.
To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop >his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently and >ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see when >a Japanese make is involved,

Seen that e.g. on Hondas and Toyotas, too
and I should think no other German >manufacturers would dare live up to such preposterous standards.

Check the BMW and/or Merc Newsgroups.
Or the japanese ones.


Regards

Wolfgang

--
1999 Audi A6 Avant TDI
Add comment
Ronny 21 April 2005 01:21:25 permanent link ]
 JP Roberts wrote:>> This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no>> matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is>> at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,>> somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were>> under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with,>> saying work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have>> anything to do with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with>> under-engineering (which is still a maybe.)>>
I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made>> known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we>> know where *not* to go.>>
It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That>> way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,>> they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his>> truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't>> break down. :)­ Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.>>
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,>> however, is.>>
I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts,> you'll realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically> replace all faulty parts. To give you a further example, my> brother-in-law had to drop his car at the dealer's three times for> three sucessive but differently and ill-timed coilpack failures. This> is something that you will never see when a Japanese make is> involved, and I should think no other German manufacturers would dare> live up to such preposterous standards. I feel it's especially> disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars in the> belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always> know Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.

So you had your warranty work done on recall 5 years ago, and you now have
100k miles on the clock and expect that a wear item should be replaced under
warranty?

I know the suspension arms on Audi's is poor but they do last for at least a
few years which is "good enough"

I would say bite the bullet and live with it, you still got a nice car,
remember most Audi owners are repeat customers, once you buy an Audi you
dont go back :)­


Add comment
Steve Sears 21 April 2005 01:28:03 permanent link ]
 Wolfgang,
Hear hear.
Piecemeal servicing is getting more common everyday. The more complex the
cars, the more "black boxes" to go wrong. Sometimes there may be a group of
BB's daisy chained together to form a system, and the standard operating
procedure is to replace the most likely failed BB, see if that fixed the
problem, then go for the next, and the next, and the next......sounds alot
like the A8L problem we had here a while back, but it was also the problem I
heard about a certain British SUV company repair policy, too. It's all
across the board. I doubt that servicing Japanese products would make JP
feel all warm and fuzzy inside, either. After having a massive rear brake
replacement (cables, calipers, rotors) on my wife's 2k2 CRV, in which I was
criticized as being neglectful for not bringing in the car for a "brake
inspection" (I "inspected" them when I rotated the tires), I asked for the
rotors back. They forgot and threw them out. I asked for a replacement set
and they said "Oh yeah, we get CRV's and Odysseys in all the time for rear
brake problems, we'll get you a set next week". Inspection, my a$$.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <mille@afm.at> wrote in message
news:andd615vatiaj1­qd869d026boooidfgsd4­@4ax.com...> JP Roberts wrote:>
I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts, you'll> >realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically replace all> >faulty parts.>
Not only Audi.>
To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop> >his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently
ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see
when> >a Japanese make is involved,>
Seen that e.g. on Hondas and Toyotas, too>
and I should think no other German> >manufacturers would dare live up to such preposterous standards.>
Check the BMW and/or Merc Newsgroups.> Or the japanese ones.>
Regards>
Wolfgang>
-- > 1999 Audi A6 Avant TDI


Add comment
Steve Sears 21 April 2005 01:30:08 permanent link ]
 JP,
So were they replaced or not?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d46bkn$i2e$1@n­ews.ya.com...> They should have been replaced, but with these so called "campaigns", if
dealer does happen to have the necessary time to check during a routinely> service, and I'm assuming they do, it still takes some "free play" or> whatever other sypmtoms for them to have the parts replaced. Now, if they> know these to be faulty I find that is only adding insult to injury as
they> should all be replaced automatically in every single instance.>
"Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESs­oil-mat.on.ca> escribió en el mensaje> news:W9w9e.10945$Jg­5.711668@news20.bell­global.com...> > JP,> > Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while> > back> > under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their ducks> > in> > a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are indeed
wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take> > your> > complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than
most -> > at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be> > unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with> > parts> > purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or> > not).> > Cheers!> > Steve Sears> > 1987 Audi 5kTQ> > 1980 Audi 5k> > 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes> > (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)> >
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message> > news:d45p62$s4$1@ne­ws.ya.com...> >> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
you're> >> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that> >> this> >> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the> >> make - read dealer.> >>


Add comment
Guest 21 April 2005 01:42:56 permanent link ]
 
JP Roberts wrote:> >
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,> > however, is.> >
I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts,
you'll> realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically replace
faulty parts.

I *have* read your other posts. If the part is not currently causing a
problem, then they should not have to replace it. This is not an
Audi-only thing - they *all* do it.
To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop> his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but
differently and> ill-timed coilpack failures.

Again, the policy of not replacing parts that are not currently broken
causes some hassles. Maybe Audi could have sourced all the needed coil
packs all at once. And maybe tequila is suddenly going to pour out of
a faucet at home. Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just
weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.
This is something that you will never see when> a Japanese make is involved

Flat out wrong.
and I should think no other German> manufacturers would dare live up to such preposterous standards.

Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.
I feel it's> especially disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars
in the> belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always
know> Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.

As I have said before, you had better start shopping for a luxury
Japanese make to reduce the strain on your heart.

Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts for
free?

E.P.

Add comment
Ronny 21 April 2005 01:59:54 permanent link ]
 Steve Sears wrote:> JP,> So were they replaced or not?> Cheers!> Steve Sears

http://groups.googl­e.co.uk/groups?q=aut­hor:1234%40yahoo.com­&start=20&hl=en&lr=&­selm=cpnr1i%24fgc%24­1%40news.ya.com&rnum­=26

have a look


Add comment


JP Roberts 21 April 2005 16:58:48 permanent link ]
 In all probability they weren't and the lack of a sticker speaks volumes but
unfortunately as I had not yet become suspicious enough at the time, I never
really checked. Anyway, it is still much of the same thing now with the
lower arms, which, of course, they just found to be OK, and I bet they're
going to fall apart just as soon as the campaign is over. I mean these
people know very well what they're doing to boost their business and empty
our pockets, right?


"Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESs­oil-mat.on.ca> escribió en el mensaje
news:ITz9e.11088$Jg­5.752313@news20.bell­global.com...> JP,> So were they replaced or not?> Cheers!> Steve Sears> 1987 Audi 5kTQ> 1980 Audi 5k> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)>
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message> news:d46bkn$i2e$1@n­ews.ya.com...>> They should have been replaced, but with these so called "campaigns", if> the>> dealer does happen to have the necessary time to check during a routinely>> service, and I'm assuming they do, it still takes some "free play" or>> whatever other sypmtoms for them to have the parts replaced. Now, if they>> know these to be faulty I find that is only adding insult to injury as> they>> should all be replaced automatically in every single instance.>>
"Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESs­oil-mat.on.ca> escribió en el mensaje>> news:W9w9e.10945$Jg­5.711668@news20.bell­global.com...>> > JP,>> > Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while>> > back>> > under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their >> > ducks>> > in>> > a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are >> > indeed> a>> > wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take>> > your>> > complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than> most ->> > at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be>> > unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with>> > parts>> > purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or>> > not).>> > Cheers!>> > Steve Sears>> > 1987 Audi 5kTQ>> > 1980 Audi 5k>> > 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes>> > (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)>> >
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message>> > news:d45p62$s4$1@ne­ws.ya.com...>> >> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think> you're>> >> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that>> >> this>> >> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the>> >> make - read dealer.>> >>


Add comment
JP Roberts 21 April 2005 17:06:23 permanent link ]
 
Not only Audi.

Can you provide any links proving that any other presumably "serious" makes
have had problems with suspension arms?
To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop>>his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently >>and>>ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see >>when>>a Japanese make is involved,>
Seen that e.g. on Hondas and Toyotas, too

Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the
only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much
more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or
less pretty happy about their Hondas. And I know Audis look better but the
type R is a hell of a car performance wise and with such a high-revving
engine, this should last no longer than a couple of hundred miles, if the
parts in this engine were of a similar standard to that of VW suspension rod
ends.


Add comment


JP Roberts 21 April 2005 17:08:21 permanent link ]
 
After having a massive rear brake> replacement (cables, calipers, rotors) on my wife's 2k2 CRV,

Why this replacement?


Add comment
JP Roberts 21 April 2005 17:19:54 permanent link ]
 I feel it's especially>> disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars in the>> belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always>> know Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.>
So you had your warranty work done on recall 5 years ago, and you now have> 100k miles on the clock and expect that a wear item should be replaced > under> warranty?

The point is that they are badly and underengineered and this is exactly why
they must be covered for the life of the car.
I know the suspension arms on Audi's is poor but they do last for at least > a> few years which is "good enough.

It is precisely because of this soft critical attitude that they will get
away with it yet once again.
remember most Audi owners are repeat customers, once you buy an Audi you> dont go back.

This is exactly why they should treat us with some respect instead of
disdain.


Add comment


JP Roberts 21 April 2005 17:30:25 permanent link ]
 
Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just> weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.

I can't believe you bought such a lame excuse. This is no excuse at all,
remember they do have all the necessary cars it takes to supply just any
market. If it'd been a Chinese customer placing an order for 500 A6 on
condition that they must be made within three week's time they sure would
have taken and fullfilled the demand.
Flat out wrong.

Where's that link?
Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.

I friend of mine had the whole of his '02 M3's engine replaced 2 months out
of warranty before it broke - which remains to be seen whether it would have
happened. This is exactly the right and opposite policy. I don't know about
Mercedes.
Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts for> free?

Pretty much everywhere else when it's a clear case of underengineering.


Add comment
Wolfgang Pawlinetz 21 April 2005 18:19:37 permanent link ]
 JP Roberts wrote:
Can you provide any links proving that any other presumably "serious" makes >have had problems with suspension arms?

Arms?
We were talking about the replacement policy, right?

But ok:
Google search for '$BRANDHERE front suspension problem' gives

Honda
http://tinyurl.com/­9jcny
http://tinyurl.com/­abu76
http://tinyurl.com/­9b5ta

Toyota:
http://tinyurl.com/­89hff
This one might be worth a quote:
**************
My experience with Toyota was the same: they rush and do a minimal
work to appear trying to fix things and when they fail they tell you
that they do not know what to do next or they refer you to the Toyota
Representative.

I suggest that you ask your dealer put you in contact with the Toyota
Representative and if that does not work try arbitration
(1-888-300-6237).

I also suggest that "you do not hold your breath(!)" even if
arbitration results in your favor. The decision is supposed to be
"binding on Toyota," it isn't. In my case even if the arbitrator
decided that Toyota should repair the car, Toyota did not.
*****
End Quote
http://tinyurl.com/­br9d4

BMW
http://tinyurl.com/­beh4z
http://tinyurl.com/­a6g2u

Merc
http://tinyurl.com/­bqca5
http://tinyurl.com/­99s5d

Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the >only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much >more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or >less pretty happy about their Hondas.

Ok. Just for starters (unfortunately in german, but you'll recognize
the pattern. The less the number of needed assistances is, the better
it is):

Roadside assistances medium to upperclass cars
http://tinyurl.com/­8j3dl
medium class:
http://tinyurl.com/­drqzc

Then I got bored searching.

Regards

Wolfgang
Add comment
JP Roberts 21 April 2005 18:53:07 permanent link ]
 
Do not appear to be general or serious and for the first two there is no
indication that the car owner had to pay for the repairs.

In the end it turned out to be tyre related, so not relevant.

The first turned out to be the muffler, the second, however, is relevant,
though there is nothing about control arms, only springs and struts, which
is not really in the same league as far as wear is concerned.

The first is about an off roader so that's a completely different matter.
The second is not specific at all.
Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the>>only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much>>more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or>>less pretty happy about their Hondas.>
Ok. Just for starters (unfortunately in german, but you'll recognize> the pattern. The less the number of needed assistances is, the better> it is):>
Roadside assistances medium to upperclass cars> http://tinyurl.com/­8j3dl> medium class:> http://tinyurl.com/­drqzc>

Statistics is the science by which if a man has eaten a chicken and another
one has not eaten one, at the end of the day they will both have eaten half
of it each. Anyway, it would have to be seen how many more Mercs and BMWs
are there on the German roads, by comparison to the number of Audis. I
believe the ratio must be somewhere between 2 Mercs per every Audi, and 1.5
BMWs per Audi, though of course I still prefer my whole Audi to that
remaining half a BMW :)­!

Not trying to pull anyone's leg, here and do appreciate your efforts but I
remain unconvinced.

JP Roberts


Add comment
Guest 21 April 2005 19:50:51 permanent link ]
 
JP Roberts wrote:> Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just> > weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.>
I can't believe you bought such a lame excuse.

It's not an excuse, but reality. The fact is that the replacementsa
didn't exist in great enough numbers. When they did exist, then all
the packs were replaced at once.
This is no excuse at all,> remember they do have all the necessary cars it takes to supply just
market.

Hardly. You can't just wave a wand and have parts materialize out of
thin air. Do you know anything at all about heavy manufacturing?
Flat out wrong.>
Where's that link?

Link to what?
Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.>
I friend of mine had the whole of his '02 M3's engine replaced 2
months out> of warranty before it broke - which remains to be seen whether it
would have> happened. This is exactly the right and opposite policy. I don't know
about> Mercedes.

There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a
very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some
dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,
regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had
warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because they
had good dealer relations.
Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts
free?>
Pretty much everywhere else when it's a clear case of
underengineering.

Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear
case."

I'm becoming curious as to why you are not naming this dealer that's so
shoddy. If what you say is completely true, then what's the problem?

It seems to me as though you want a lifetime warranty on wear parts
where no other manufacturer has such a policy. All because your German
car is a little more expensive than other cars to fix. I will repeat
my suggestion: sell your Audi, and buy a Honda or Toyota product.
Everyone wins.

E.P.

Add comment
Jules 21 April 2005 21:01:06 permanent link ]
 Disdain is cheaper.

JP Roberts wrote:
This is exactly why they should treat us with some respect instead of > disdain. >

Opps, Disdain is cheaper.

But where I go I am treated very nice indeed. No matter what the
manufacturer, I'm sure there will be bad examples happening.

Add comment
JP Roberts 21 April 2005 23:56:11 permanent link ]
 
I do know the basics about assembly line work, but then again I bet there is
not only one coil pack manufacturer in the world. Now, there's probably only
a cheap one, which happens to be the one supplying them. So, it's nothing a
couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.> Hardly. You can't just wave a wand and have parts materialize out of> thin air. Do you know anything at all about heavy manufacturing?

There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a> very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some> dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,> regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had> warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because they> had good dealer relations.>
This is what they should all do, although of course only if there's a good
reason enough, which happens to be the case.

Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear> case."
Well, now I can see you're just a would-be knowitall. Yes, I do happen to be
an engineer although my knowledge of car mechanics is rather limited, but I
can still easily tell from the many woe stories when something has been
underengineered, but it doesn't take an engineer to not fail to see this.
Also, upon inspection deterioration is so obvious that there's no denying
the bad engineering.


If I'm not naming the dealer it's only because it's thousands of miles away
from where most of you probably are, so you're perfectly safe in that
respect, and because the point is that this contemptible behaviour is pretty
much extended where I am based. I would dare to say that the good stories
are the rare exceptions. But with a few exceptions like that of Wolfgang, I
think it's the make's policy that's faulty. If you doubt what I'm saying I
would like you to point me out to just a couple of links in which our make
has covered something after the guarantee had expired.> I'm becoming curious as to why you are not naming this dealer that's so> shoddy. If what you say is completely true, then what's the problem?




Add comment
Steve Sears 22 April 2005 00:26:29 permanent link ]
 JP,
siezed calipers, pooched rotors.
Apparently, the rear calipers must not like the salty winter roads so much -
I was told the local Stealership goes through loads of brake replacements
every spring on CRV's and Odysseys - bad owners, of course.
Honda used to be different - they replaced the whole rear suspension and gas
tank on a recall on my parent's 1982 Civic Wagon when it was 13 years old.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d488hn$rjp$1@n­ews.ya.com...>
After having a massive rear brake> > replacement (cables, calipers, rotors) on my wife's 2k2 CRV,>
Why this replacement?>


Add comment
Wolfgang Pawlinetz 22 April 2005 00:39:31 permanent link ]
 JP Roberts wrote:
are the rare exceptions. But with a few exceptions like that of Wolfgang, I >think it's the make's policy that's faulty. If you doubt what I'm saying I >would like you to point me out to just a couple of links in which our make >has covered something after the guarantee had expired.

Have you read the links I looked up for you as far as other brands are
concerned?

In your (understandable) bitterness you are now trying to ask for the
impossible. As has been discussed numerous times, the folks who got
their Audi serviced properly, quickly and who were taken care of have
absolutely no inclination to write that down.

The Audi Group delivered 1.2 Million units to customers in 2004 and
2003. Volkswagen as a total 5 Million Units per year worldwide. How
many posts does Audiworld have which are that negative? How many
posters show up here every month to ask for some help? 10? 20?

But I can only meanwhile recommend the same as other posters: Go and
get another brand?

Regards

Wolfgang

--
1999 Audi A6 Avant TDI
Add comment
Guest 22 April 2005 01:28:30 permanent link ]
 
JP Roberts wrote:> I do know the basics about assembly line work, but then again I bet
there is> not only one coil pack manufacturer in the world.

For that particular application? You do not have the slightest clue
about the particulars of that case, and now you somehow claim to know
about how many suppliers there are?

OK, here's an exercise for your own amusement - a question to which I
actually know the answer:

At the time of VAG's coil pack problem, how many manufacturers could
have supplied, at a one-week notice, a batch of one hundred of those
specified coil packs?
So, it's nothing a> couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.

Answer the question above for enlightenment.
There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a> > very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some> > dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,> > regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had> > warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because
they> > had good dealer relations.> >
This is what they should all do, although of course only if there's a
good> reason enough, which happens to be the case.

Then why bother having a warranty period, hmmm? If it breaks, we'll
fix it, no matter how old the car? No matter what mileage, no matter
what sort of abuse or modification? OK, so that's the silly extreme,
but there does have to be a line drawn somewhere. You happened to fall
on the other side of it, and your dealership is taking a hard line and
saying "tough luck."

Just like every other manufacturer's dealerships in the vast majority
of these kinds of cases. Wishing otherwise is a foolish exercise.
Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear> > case."> Well, now I can see you're just a would-be knowitall.

You admit you're not an automotive engineer, so in this case I guess I
really am right. Making your "clear case" comment is just so much
prattling on.
Also, upon inspection deterioration is so obvious that there's no
denying> the bad engineering.

Except you're not an automotive engineer, so your "inspection" is
meaningless. A few stories and some hearsay from some folks who have a
monetary interest in getting your car on a hoist is not evidence. I
suppose in your courses of study in engineering you had to take some
classes in real, hard sciences, right? You can tell the difference
between hard and anecdotal data, yes?
If I'm not naming the dealer it's only because it's thousands of
miles away> from where most of you probably are, so you're perfectly safe in that
respect, and because the point is that this contemptible behaviour is
pretty> much extended where I am based.

All the more reason to name this dealer. Because now it's *your*
credibility that I'm questioning. Normally, I give the benefit of the
doubt to the customer, and assume the dealer is the problem. Now I'm
beginning to get another idea in your specific case.
I would dare to say that the good stories> are the rare exceptions.

Why? I've heard of more good stories in this thread than bad.
But with a few exceptions like that of Wolfgang, I> think it's the make's policy that's faulty.

LOL. You think the car should come with some all-inclusive lifetime
warranty for everything, including stuff that other people have had
replaced under warranty.
If you doubt what I'm saying I> would like you to point me out to just a couple of links in which our
make> has covered something after the guarantee had expired.

I would not expect them to cover something after the warranty had
expired, unless it was a recall item. Audi or some other manufacturer.
If you wanted a longer warranty, then you should have purchased one.
If the cost of repairing your out-of-warranty car is too dear, then you
need a different car that's cheaper to fix when it breaks.

I would like to know why you expect free service and parts after
warranty for non-recall items when that virtually never happens for any
other make or model. Why should Audi do what no one else does, and not
charge more for it?

E.P.

Add comment
JP Roberts 22 April 2005 19:41:16 permanent link ]
 Wolfgang, did you read my reply to those links posted above?>
Have you read the links I looked up for you as far as other brands are> concerned?

These are still a minority when it comes down to general satisfaction with
the treatment received. Just do a search in Audiworld.> In your (understandable) bitterness you are now trying to ask for the> impossible. As has been discussed numerous times, the folks who got> their Audi serviced properly, quickly and who were taken care of have> absolutely no inclination to write that down.

There's no denying that these newsgroup is a valuable asset, but no matter
how impressive your figures are, you're neglecting the fact that the vast
majority of Audi Owners will never take to the internet to vent their
frustrations with the make out.> The Audi Group delivered 1.2 Million units to customers in 2004 and> 2003. Volkswagen as a total 5 Million Units per year worldwide. How> many posts does Audiworld have which are that negative? How many> posters show up here every month to ask for some help? 10? 20?

I'm seriously considering BMW as my next buy.> But I can only meanwhile recommend the same as other posters: Go and> get another brand?>
Regards>
Wolfgang>
-- > 1999 Audi A6 Avant TDI


Add comment
JP Roberts 22 April 2005 19:50:44 permanent link ]
 You very well know it was not a one-week notice period, but at least a
couple of months that we're talking about, so yes, just about every other
manufacturer could have done so easily.> At the time of VAG's coil pack problem, how many manufacturers could> have supplied, at a one-week notice, a batch of one hundred of those> specified coil packs?>
So, it's nothing a>> couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.

You know one of the virtues in life is that of showing some flexibility?
Again, where's your link showing our make covering something out of
warranty?> Then why bother having a warranty period, hmmm? If it breaks, we'll> fix it, no matter how old the car? No matter what mileage, no matter> what sort of abuse or modification? OK, so that's the silly extreme,> but there does have to be a line drawn somewhere. You happened to fall> on the other side of it, and your dealership is taking a hard line and> saying "tough luck.">

You're right it's only your guess, which happens to be wrong.> You admit you're not an automotive engineer, so in this case I guess I> really am right. Making your "clear case" comment is just so much> prattling on.>
Also, upon inspection deterioration is so obvious that there's no> denying>> the bad engineering.

Let me put it this way, when you see you're bleeding badly, do you need to
be a cardiovascular doctor to know if there's something seriously wrong?
Even a child would understand something like this.> Except you're not an automotive engineer, so your "inspection" is> meaningless. A few stories and some hearsay from some folks who have a> monetary interest in getting your car on a hoist is not evidence. I> suppose in your courses of study in engineering you had to take some> classes in real, hard sciences, right? You can tell the difference> between hard and anecdotal data, yes?

I've long been questioning yours, as you fail to maintain a logical argument
by slightly diverting from the main topic all the time.> All the more reason to name this dealer. Because now it's *your*> credibility that I'm questioning. Normally, I give the benefit of the> doubt to the customer, and assume the dealer is the problem. Now I'm> beginning to get another idea in your specific case.>
This thread, but just conduct a search in Audiworld.>> I would dare to say that the good stories>> are the rare exceptions.>
Why? I've heard of more good stories in this thread than bad.>

Again, you're failing to remember that it's a case of underengineering, so
another reason why your own credibility is close to nil.> LOL. You think the car should come with some all-inclusive lifetime> warranty for everything, including stuff that other people have had> replaced under warranty.>


Add comment
Peter Bell 22 April 2005 20:12:42 permanent link ]
 In message <d4b6e7$tkm$2@news.­ya.com>
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Snip]
Again, where's your link showing our make covering something out of> warranty?

The only fault which has affected the drivability any of our Audis, in a
total 11.5 years of ownership was when a fuel injector failed on my 1996
A4 2.6. It failed about 2 months out of warranty but Audi UK covered
the repair at no cost to me.

--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')
Add comment
JP Roberts 22 April 2005 20:50:25 permanent link ]
 Point taken, but check this, just for starters:

http://forums.audiw­orld.com/tt/msgs/869­113.phtml>
Again, where's your link showing our make covering something out of>> warranty?>
The only fault which has affected the drivability any of our Audis, in a> total 11.5 years of ownership was when a fuel injector failed on my 1996> A4 2.6. It failed about 2 months out of warranty but Audi UK covered> the repair at no cost to me.>
-- > Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with > 'bellfamily')


Add comment
David Nesbitt 22 April 2005 21:11:33 permanent link ]
 In article <d4b6e6$tkm$1@news.­ya.com>,
JP Roberts <1234@yahoo.com> wrote:>Wolfgang, did you read my reply to those links posted above?>>
Have you read the links I looked up for you as far as other brands are>> concerned?>
These are still a minority when it comes down to general satisfaction with>the treatment received. Just do a search in Audiworld.>> In your (understandable) bitterness you are now trying to ask for the>> impossible. As has been discussed numerous times, the folks who got>> their Audi serviced properly, quickly and who were taken care of have>> absolutely no inclination to write that down.>
There's no denying that these newsgroup is a valuable asset, but no matter>how impressive your figures are, you're neglecting the fact that the vast>majority of Audi Owners will never take to the internet to vent their>frustrations with the make out.

If your intention is to convince readers here that all Audis are "under
engineered" and that we've all been ripped off, you will never succeed.
Those of us reading the group who have had good value and satisfactory
products from Audi, will sympathise but dismiss your story as a one-off.
That's the natural reaction if our experience doesn't match yours.

Time to move on, unless you're trying to speculate on a "class action".

--
David Nesbitt

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Guest 22 April 2005 21:58:22 permanent link ]
 
JP Roberts wrote:> >> So, it's nothing a> >> couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.>
At the time of VAG's coil pack problem, how many manufacturers
could> > have supplied, at a one-week notice, a batch of one hundred of
those> > specified coil packs?> >
You very well know it was not a one-week notice period, but at least
couple of months that we're talking about, so yes, just about every
other> manufacturer could have done so easily.

What's with the mixed top and bottom quoting?

Anyway, your claim is that they could go to some other supplier and
just get enough to cover all of them, including new manufacture, "in an
instant".

That suggestion is 100% false. There was *one* supplier for the
particular part, and VAG had to get a different manufacturer to supply
both the new and replacement parts.

Like I said, you can't wave a wand and have parts appear. They need to
made, shipped and stocked. Which takes time.
Then why bother having a warranty period, hmmm? If it breaks,
we'll> > fix it, no matter how old the car? No matter what mileage, no
matter> > what sort of abuse or modification? OK, so that's the silly
extreme,> > but there does have to be a line drawn somewhere. You happened to
fall> > on the other side of it, and your dealership is taking a hard line
saying "tough luck.">
You know one of the virtues in life is that of showing some
flexibility?> Again, where's your link showing our make covering something out of> warranty?

Again, why should they cover something out of warranty? Why bother
having a warranty period AT ALL? I know of plenty of folks that have
had things not recalled covered out of warranty. But those things were
generally small, and the cars were close to the end of warranty.

In addition, VAG did cover the electric window lift clip thing outside
of warranty for lots of cars that were FAR outside the period. Look it
up.

You keep avoiding the question - why have a warranty period at all, if
folks expect free repairs for the life of the car?

You admit you're not an automotive engineer, so in this case I
guess I> > really am right. Making your "clear case" comment is just so much> > prattling on.>
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